"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...
Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

Most Onans that I have seen have the points box on the top of the engine.
Still not always convenient, but at least you don't need to dismantle the
engine. The manual for my CCK (no oil filter) specifies 100 hours. That
might sound like a lot, but it would be the same as several thousand miles
in an auto engine.

Vaughn



Actually, it doesn't really sound like a lot to me. I am guilty of pushing
the limits on some cheap engines as far as oil changes go. I used the
change the oil on my Chinese 2000 watt genny every 50 hours, as recommended.
It has about 3000 hours on it now and I've been changing the oil about every
100 hours (or slightly more) for about the last 1000 hours. At 100 hours
the oil is still transparent and not very dark. Looking at the oil may not
be the best way to determine when to change the oil but it seems to be
working for me. OTOH on a Briggs I might change the oil after only 25 hours
because it'll look black and yucky by then.

The cheap oil gets loose and runny. Loses the viscosity
protection. Please use good brand of oil. Castrol is my
favorite.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

It has about 3000 hours on it now and I've been changing the
oil about every
100 hours (or slightly more) for about the last 1000 hours.
At 100 hours
the oil is still transparent and not very dark. Looking at
the oil may not
be the best way to determine when to change the oil but it
seems to be
working for me.

In article ,
Bruce in alaska wrote:

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright, BUT never have had any Grease under
their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't ever do
"Business " with them.....

I bet those flatland idiots also are too damn lazy to capitalize random
words throughout their sentences.

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
Bruce in alaska wrote:

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright, BUT never have had any Grease
under their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't
ever do "Business " with them.....

I bet those flatland idiots also are too damn lazy to capitalize
random words throughout their sentences.


They **** in their houses too. I've seen it -- city pukes will take a dump
right next to their bed rooms or kitchens. My ****ter is a small hike away
but its got a great view.

"z" wrote in message
. ..

They **** in their houses too. I've seen it -- city pukes will take a
dump
right next to their bed rooms or kitchens. My ****ter is a small hike
away
but its got a great view.

An outhouse really loses it's charm (at least to this Florida boy) when
you have a big pile of snow where the path is supposed to be.

Vaughn

In article ,
"vaughn" wrote:

"z" wrote in message
. ..

They **** in their houses too. I've seen it -- city pukes will take a
dump
right next to their bed rooms or kitchens. My ****ter is a small hike
away
but its got a great view.

An outhouse really loses it's charm (at least to this Florida boy) when
you have a big pile of snow where the path is supposed to be.

Vaughn

NO, it is the 360 Degree view, that gets the Ladies upset.....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

You wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered.

Contrary to popular belief, Diesel Fuel does NOT require ANY
Stabilizer... as long as it is Clean, in the first place, and
not sucking water into it, in the second place. Water will be taken out
of the fuel, by the Primary and Secondary Fuel Filters. So as long as it
(water) is minimal, it goes away, when you change the Filters.

Since I'm not the world's leading expert on the subject,
I have to ask those who are. Like these:

http://tinyurl.com/lm7xl2

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_fuel_storage.html

http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html

Granted, many sources are biased toward their own products
but looking through multiple sources one can ferret out the
real information they all have in common.

TDD

You can be Daring, all you want, with your own opinions. That is called
Free Speech, but when you spout Crap, people who know can always smell
the stink.....

You wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

You wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered.
Contrary to popular belief, Diesel Fuel does NOT require ANY
Stabilizer... as long as it is Clean, in the first place, and
not sucking water into it, in the second place. Water will be taken out
of the fuel, by the Primary and Secondary Fuel Filters. So as long as it
(water) is minimal, it goes away, when you change the Filters.
Since I'm not the world's leading expert on the subject,
I have to ask those who are. Like these:

http://tinyurl.com/lm7xl2

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_fuel_storage.html

http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html

Granted, many sources are biased toward their own products
but looking through multiple sources one can ferret out the
real information they all have in common.

TDD

You can be Daring, all you want, with your own opinions. That is called
Free Speech, but when you spout Crap, people who know can always smell
the stink.....

You obviously understood nothing I wrote. I explained that I'm
not the world's leading expert on the subject and can only write
about my own extensive experience with generators which includes
the very small to a few large EMD systems. Most of my experience
is with gasoline and natural gas powered systems. I have limited
experience with diesel powered units and have never had to tear
down and repair a diesel engine. My experience on diesel gensets
is limited to maintenance of the engine and repairs to the various
electrical and electronic assemblies. I once had to repair the
voltage regulator from a GM Delco 20kw diesel genset that was in
the hold of our 100 foot crew boat in The Marshall Islands. I took
the regulator to the island TV shop and discovered a thermal
intermittent caused by a defective unijunction transistor on the
circuit board. I was able to find a close match in the stock of
TV repair parts and fix the problem. That was 20 years ago and I've
repaired more than a few since then. Please include a source to
your allegations of my ignorance since I'm not the world's leading
expert and would very much like to learn as much as I can.

TDD

wrote in
:

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:56:17 -0800, Bruce in alaska
wrote:

In article ,
z wrote:

Actually some new people bought the old foster place down the road
from me a few miles and I got the trust fund impression. We were
talking about home power at a BBQ and they were telling me how they
had big plans for putting in wind power etc.

For one thing the spot they bought is terrible for wind power but
that didn't seem to bother them. Like me they'd need to send the
power at least 3/4 a mile to get any wind. And I was reminding them
of 140 MPH winds we get from time to time and how to make a
tower/turbine that can withstand that. And they've got no road or
access to the only place on their property to do wind, and its on
steep hill with timber .. its a big ****ing job in anycase.

No problem they were like 'well we can get these wind turbines for
only 30,000 so we're thinking about putting two in to see how they
go.

Oh.. right. OK then if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money
on it than I guess it can be made to work. The thing they COULD do
on that place is hydro so I was talking with them about that. The
guy was convinced he wanted to use an archemedes screw with a
concrete shoot of some kind with some home made rare earth magnets
he had to generate power. We were all pretty drunk by that time so
I'm going to have to talk with them more seriously at some point.

But the 30k turbines cracked me up. Yeah I could buy a russian
nuclear sub and put it in the creek and run off the power plant in
that thing too if I had a bazzillion dollars to spend on it.

So I think thats what got me in the trust fund mood -- I get so
tired of people telling me 'just buy a bunch of solar panels' and
the like

It's all relative. Somebody asked me once why I didn't just pave the 6
miles of road leading to my place. Either he thought that paving was
cheap, or that somebody driving a 10 year old car is secretly made of
money. :-)

Thats classic.

Just wave your hand and make it so!

I get that kind of advice about my bridge a lot. People are 'why don't
you just get a rail car that'd be easy'.

Yeah easy -- 90 foot rail car trucked in and then somehow moved up a
mountain logging road, then put into place. Even if the rail car was
free I'd still need a double truck & a serious crane. Serious bucks --
it would be a good solution but probably cost 10k min .. maybe more.

The cable bridge was *much* easier and cheaper.

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

You obviously understood nothing I wrote. I explained that I'm
not the world's leading expert on the subject and can only write
about my own extensive experience with generators which includes
the very small to a few large EMD systems. Most of my experience
is with gasoline and natural gas powered systems. I have limited
experience with diesel powered units and have never had to tear
down and repair a diesel engine. My experience on diesel gensets
is limited to maintenance of the engine and repairs to the various
electrical and electronic assemblies. I once had to repair the
voltage regulator from a GM Delco 20kw diesel genset that was in
the hold of our 100 foot crew boat in The Marshall Islands. I took
the regulator to the island TV shop and discovered a thermal
intermittent caused by a defective unijunction transistor on the
circuit board. I was able to find a close match in the stock of
TV repair parts and fix the problem. That was 20 years ago and I've
repaired more than a few since then. Please include a source to
your allegations of my ignorance since I'm not the world's leading
expert and would very much like to learn as much as I can.

TDD

Well, I, for one, agree with this "You" fellow, in that Stabilizer isn't
needed in Diesel Fuel, for the operation of Diesel Engines. I have 40+
years of operating, maintaining, and generating ALL my own power, out
here in the bush of Alaska, mostly with diesel fueled Gensets. I have
burned diesel fuel that was left over for WWII, and was over 40 years
old at the time of use. It was in sealed 55USG Drums, found in an old
Military Bunker. Burned just fine, with no difference in generating
capacity noted during the run. If you have clean diesel going in to your
tank, and keep the water out of the tank, diesel will store basically
"Forever". I have a 250KUSG TankFarm, that we fill every fall, and the
diesel is just as good in the spring, as it was, when it was pumped in
the previous Fall. Some of the fuel in those tanks may be 2 or 3 years
old, before it gets used. Never had a problem in 40 years, except ONCE,
when we got a Barge Load, with bugs in the fuel. We had to biocide three
tanks, and so did every other customer that got a delivery from that
Barge, that trip. All paid for, by the distributer, and a BIG Apology,
for delivering Bad Fuel. We don't get the GasOhol Crap that the Feds
force on you Flatlanders, as the barge can only carry one Grade of
Gasoline, and it needs to be FAA Certified for 80/86 Low Lead AVGAS,
so we don't have to deal with most of the Gasoline problems you guys do.
Our #1 Diesel is JetA50, as well, so we always get the "Good Stuff" from
the Distributer, rather than the slop they pump to the Consumer Sales
places.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

You obviously understood nothing I wrote. I explained that I'm
not the world's leading expert on the subject and can only write
about my own extensive experience with generators which includes
the very small to a few large EMD systems. Most of my experience
is with gasoline and natural gas powered systems. I have limited
experience with diesel powered units and have never had to tear
down and repair a diesel engine. My experience on diesel gensets
is limited to maintenance of the engine and repairs to the various
electrical and electronic assemblies. I once had to repair the
voltage regulator from a GM Delco 20kw diesel genset that was in
the hold of our 100 foot crew boat in The Marshall Islands. I took
the regulator to the island TV shop and discovered a thermal
intermittent caused by a defective unijunction transistor on the
circuit board. I was able to find a close match in the stock of
TV repair parts and fix the problem. That was 20 years ago and I've
repaired more than a few since then. Please include a source to
your allegations of my ignorance since I'm not the world's leading
expert and would very much like to learn as much as I can.

TDD

Well, I, for one, agree with this "You" fellow, in that Stabilizer isn't
needed in Diesel Fuel, for the operation of Diesel Engines. I have 40+
years of operating, maintaining, and generating ALL my own power, out
here in the bush of Alaska, mostly with diesel fueled Gensets. I have
burned diesel fuel that was left over for WWII, and was over 40 years
old at the time of use. It was in sealed 55USG Drums, found in an old
Military Bunker. Burned just fine, with no difference in generating
capacity noted during the run. If you have clean diesel going in to your
tank, and keep the water out of the tank, diesel will store basically
"Forever". I have a 250KUSG TankFarm, that we fill every fall, and the
diesel is just as good in the spring, as it was, when it was pumped in
the previous Fall. Some of the fuel in those tanks may be 2 or 3 years
old, before it gets used. Never had a problem in 40 years, except ONCE,
when we got a Barge Load, with bugs in the fuel. We had to biocide three
tanks, and so did every other customer that got a delivery from that
Barge, that trip. All paid for, by the distributer, and a BIG Apology,
for delivering Bad Fuel. We don't get the GasOhol Crap that the Feds
force on you Flatlanders, as the barge can only carry one Grade of
Gasoline, and it needs to be FAA Certified for 80/86 Low Lead AVGAS,
so we don't have to deal with most of the Gasoline problems you guys do.
Our #1 Diesel is JetA50, as well, so we always get the "Good Stuff" from
the Distributer, rather than the slop they pump to the Consumer Sales
places.


I also agree that diesel doesn't need stabilizer like the gasoline
that it's meant for. The information I have indicates that newer
diesel blends aren't as good as the older blends because of government
mandated emission standards. Hell, you guys in Alaska know more about
diesel generators and small airplanes than any other Americans for
obvious reasons. It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get fuel from
Russia from some folks who also know what works in the God awful cold.
I would imagine that the 40 year old diesel fuel you found was not
kept in a warm environment. I think the problems I faced with diesel
fuel in a tropical climate may not plague you in your somewhat less
tropical climate in Alaska. We had extreme humidity and condensation
to deal with and tried to keep things warm to drive moisture out of
equipment. Bugs love the tropics. By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Many years ago, sometime in the eighties. I met a fellow who
told me he ran out of gas one night, along the road. A
trucker stopped by to help. they drained a couple galons of
diesel out of the truck tank, and poured into the car. The
car ran very poorly, but did run.

Like you say, wouldn't totally surprise me if Alaskans
bought fuel from Russia. More likely, Russians come over to
buy fuel. Since supply problems used to be epidemic in
Mother Russia. Like how medical care is a problem in Canada,
and they come to Michigan.

Wasn't there something about jet fuel, they wanted to add a
jelly something so that if a plane crashed, the fuel didn't
atomize and make an explosive mist?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...

I also agree that diesel doesn't need stabilizer like the
gasoline
that it's meant for. The information I have indicates that
newer
diesel blends aren't as good as the older blends because of
government
mandated emission standards. Hell, you guys in Alaska know
more about
diesel generators and small airplanes than any other
Americans for
obvious reasons. It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get
fuel from
Russia from some folks who also know what works in the God
awful cold.
I would imagine that the 40 year old diesel fuel you found
was not
kept in a warm environment. I think the problems I faced
with diesel
fuel in a tropical climate may not plague you in your
somewhat less
tropical climate in Alaska. We had extreme humidity and
condensation
to deal with and tried to keep things warm to drive moisture
out of
equipment. Bugs love the tropics. By the way, correct me if
I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling
or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental
extremes?

TDD

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.


Cool, thanks for the information. Makes a lot of sense to
carry just one type of fuel that will work for everything
especially when space and facilities are limited. The same
additive package mixing at the petroleum distributors goes
on here too. It's quite interesting how that's handled but
I'm guessing there is a greater variety of fuel types to be
had down here in Alabamastan. When I've talked to the guys
who drive the gasoline delivery trucks they've told me about
the compartmentalized tank trailer with so many thousand
gallons per compartment. They will have a load for one brand
in one compartment and another brand for the next station
in the next compartment (different additives). Many people
think it's just one big homogeneous load in the tank behind
the truck. I always thought and have heard that "jet" fuel
was kerosene, a much lighter fuel than diesel and that truck
drivers would mix kerosene with diesel in cold weather so
their trucks would run. I know the military has vehicles
equipped with multi fuel engines and am curious as to what
exactly they'll run on. I understand that M1 Abrams tank
with it's turbine engine shares the fuel supply with the
helicopters but heck it will probably run on peanut oil.
By the way have you guys got the Toshiba Micro Nuclear Reactor
yet? I read about an installation planned for somewhere in
Alaska.

TDD

"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

This should clarify what aviation fuel is and isn't

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...tion_fuels.pdf

Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.

My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.

With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.

It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.

Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.


All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.

Worn Out Retread wrote:
"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

This should clarify what aviation fuel is and isn't

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...tion_fuels.pdf


Thanks for the link, it clarified some of what I've heard.

TDD

On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.

My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.

With #2 Diesel, in cold

climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.

It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.

Many times Shell, Chevron, and

Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.

All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.

You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).
As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form so blocking small jets/apertures. This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. Ocassionally you see a combined
device.

Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.


ISTR this is even true with pipelines. When company 'A' puts several
thousands of barrels of #1 'into' the pipeline company's head end, the
pipeline company will deliver the same number of barrels out the end
point without actually trying to calculate transport time or any such.
The fuel that goes into company A's tank could have just as easily been
put in by another company shipping the same product.

As it is a totally fungible commodity, the pipeline company just logs
how many barrels in one end and that many barrels belong to company 'A'
at the other end.

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low
sulfur stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also
ultra-low sulfur now?

daestrom

harry wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?
TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.

With #2 Diesel, in cold

climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.
It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.

Many times Shell, Chevron, and

Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.
All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.

You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).

I think maybe you meant add kerosene to lower the amount of parafin?
Parafin is what is responsible for the gelling effect.

As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form so blocking small jets/apertures. This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. Ocassionally you see a combined
device.

"daestrom" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is, that
to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be Filtered to
FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the last
time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand Gas
Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer is
250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times that
day.


ISTR this is even true with pipelines. When company 'A' puts several
thousands of barrels of #1 'into' the pipeline company's head end, the
pipeline company will deliver the same number of barrels out the end point
without actually trying to calculate transport time or any such. The fuel
that goes into company A's tank could have just as easily been put in by
another company shipping the same product.

As it is a totally fungible commodity, the pipeline company just logs how
many barrels in one end and that many barrels belong to company 'A' at the
other end.

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low sulfur
stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also ultra-low
sulfur now?

daestrom

My mother ran out of heating oil and asked if I could bring her some. I
didn't have a barrel, but the oil distributor said he had an empty I could
borrow. When I got there he was filling it with #2 pump diesel. The same
stuff you would put in your diesel pickup or tractor. He said it was the
same stuff and my mother's furnace ran just fine.


Richard W.

On Jul 21, 11:57 pm, George wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?
TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.

With #2 Diesel, in cold

climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.
It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.

Many times Shell, Chevron, and

Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.
All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.

You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).

I think maybe you meant add kerosene to lower the amount of parafin?
Parafin is what is responsible for the gelling effect.

As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form so blocking small jets/apertures. This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. Ocassionally you see a combined
device.

What you call kerosine in the USA we in the UK call paraffin.
Like hoods & bonnets. Bumpers & fenders. Trunks & boots. :-)

On Jul 22, 4:56 pm, "Richard W." wrote:
"daestrom" wrote in message

...



Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is, that
to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be Filtered to
FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the last
time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand Gas
Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer is
250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times that
day.

ISTR this is even true with pipelines. When company 'A' puts several
thousands of barrels of #1 'into' the pipeline company's head end, the
pipeline company will deliver the same number of barrels out the end point
without actually trying to calculate transport time or any such. The fuel
that goes into company A's tank could have just as easily been put in by
another company shipping the same product.

As it is a totally fungible commodity, the pipeline company just logs how
many barrels in one end and that many barrels belong to company 'A' at the
other end.

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low sulfur
stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also ultra-low
sulfur now?

daestrom

My mother ran out of heating oil and asked if I could bring her some. I
didn't have a barrel, but the oil distributor said he had an empty I could
borrow. When I got there he was filling it with #2 pump diesel. The same
stuff you would put in your diesel pickup or tractor. He said it was the
same stuff and my mother's furnace ran just fine.

Richard W.

Thre are two sorts of heating oil. 25 sec and 35sec. (That's how we
measure the viscosity in the UK.) 25sec (kerosine) is for
vapourising burners. [Basically a big wick]
35 sec (= to diesel) for pressure jet burners.
25 sec can be burnt in a petrol engine. However the engine needs to
be hot before it will run. In days of yore some agricultural tractors
ran on this (known as Tractor Vapourising Oil). They had two tanks,
you started the tractor on petrol & then switch over to the kerosine /
TVO Smelly exhaust.

In article ,
daestrom wrote:

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low
sulfur stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also
ultra-low sulfur now?

daestrom

I can't speak for everywhere, but up here in Alaska #1 diesel is JetA50
Grade, at the Distributer and I believe that ALL our fuel is Low-Sulfur
with a Lubricant Additive Package added to fuels used in Injector and
Turbine based ICE's. Since I burn only #1 in my Gensets, so that I only
have to have one grade of fuel here at the cabin, which has a Open Pot
Diesel Burning Cookstove, and is my Primary Heat, and Hot Water source.
The fuel I get has the Lubricant Additive Package added, and the same
tanker barge delivers to the AirStrip in the next town over, from the
same tank, on the same trip.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

harry wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:57 pm, George wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?
TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.
With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.
It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.
Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.
All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.
You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).
I think maybe you meant add kerosene to lower the amount of parafin?
Parafin is what is responsible for the gelling effect.

As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form so blocking small jets/apertures. This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. Ocassionally you see a combined
device.

What you call kerosine in the USA we in the UK call paraffin.
Like hoods & bonnets. Bumpers & fenders. Trunks & boots. :-)

That's the kind of thing that causes plane crashes and
running out of fuel in mid flight. Gallons? I thought
you meant liters.

TDD

Richard W. wrote:
"daestrom" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is, that
to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be Filtered to
FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the last
time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand Gas
Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer is
250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times that
day.

ISTR this is even true with pipelines. When company 'A' puts several
thousands of barrels of #1 'into' the pipeline company's head end, the
pipeline company will deliver the same number of barrels out the end point
without actually trying to calculate transport time or any such. The fuel
that goes into company A's tank could have just as easily been put in by
another company shipping the same product.

As it is a totally fungible commodity, the pipeline company just logs how
many barrels in one end and that many barrels belong to company 'A' at the
other end.

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low sulfur
stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also ultra-low
sulfur now?

daestrom

My mother ran out of heating oil and asked if I could bring her some. I
didn't have a barrel, but the oil distributor said he had an empty I could
borrow. When I got there he was filling it with #2 pump diesel. The same
stuff you would put in your diesel pickup or tractor. He said it was the
same stuff and my mother's furnace ran just fine.


Richard W.



I believe the only difference is dye and taxes. The DOT
is always after truck drivers using home heating oil to
run their trucks because it doesn't have the road tax
included in it's price.

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
harry wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:57 pm, George wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?
TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.
With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.
It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.
Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.
All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.
You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).
I think maybe you meant add kerosene to lower the amount of parafin?
Parafin is what is responsible for the gelling effect.

As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form so blocking small jets/apertures. This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. Ocassionally you see a combined
device.

What you call kerosine in the USA we in the UK call paraffin.
Like hoods & bonnets. Bumpers & fenders. Trunks & boots. :-)

That's the kind of thing that causes plane crashes and
running out of fuel in mid flight. Gallons? I thought
you meant liters.

TDD
No, he meant _litres_! ;^)

Eric wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
harry wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:57 pm, George wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?
TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.
With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.
It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.
Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.
All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.
You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).
I think maybe you meant add kerosene to lower the amount of parafin?
Parafin is what is responsible for the gelling effect.

As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form so blocking small jets/apertures. This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. Ocassionally you see a combined
device.
What you call kerosine in the USA we in the UK call paraffin.
Like hoods & bonnets. Bumpers & fenders. Trunks & boots. :-)
That's the kind of thing that causes plane crashes and
running out of fuel in mid flight. Gallons? I thought
you meant liters.

TDD
No, he meant _litres_! ;^)



Yea, and "smoking a fag" can mean two entirely different
things. *snicker*

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Richard W. wrote:
"daestrom" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or
microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?

TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes
thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the
coast the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have
an "Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a
Load, designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell,
Chevron, and Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same
Distributer or supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the
"Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the
distributer is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck
three times that day.

ISTR this is even true with pipelines. When company 'A' puts several
thousands of barrels of #1 'into' the pipeline company's head end, the
pipeline company will deliver the same number of barrels out the end
point without actually trying to calculate transport time or any such.
The fuel that goes into company A's tank could have just as easily been
put in by another company shipping the same product.

As it is a totally fungible commodity, the pipeline company just logs
how many barrels in one end and that many barrels belong to company 'A'
at the other end.

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low
sulfur stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also
ultra-low sulfur now?

daestrom

My mother ran out of heating oil and asked if I could bring her some. I
didn't have a barrel, but the oil distributor said he had an empty I
could borrow. When I got there he was filling it with #2 pump diesel. The
same stuff you would put in your diesel pickup or tractor. He said it was
the same stuff and my mother's furnace ran just fine.


Richard W.

I believe the only difference is dye and taxes. The DOT
is always after truck drivers using home heating oil to
run their trucks because it doesn't have the road tax
included in it's price.

TDD

I believe you're right on that. I met a survivalist once years ago. All his
cars and trucks were diesel. He used home heating oil in everything. He
claimed to have over 10,000 gallons stored up. Never bought fuel at the pump
unless he was traveling. Every spring when the heating oil prices would go
down, he filled up his tanks.

Richard W.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jul 22, 4:56 pm, "Richard W." wrote:
"daestrom" wrote in message

...



Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or
microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental
extremes?

TDD

Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. The difference is,
that
to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be Filtered
to
FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel
in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes
thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or
#1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank. With #2 Diesel, in cold
climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the
coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer. Many times Shell, Chevron, and
Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on
who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last
time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand Gas
Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is
250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that
day.

ISTR this is even true with pipelines. When company 'A' puts several
thousands of barrels of #1 'into' the pipeline company's head end, the
pipeline company will deliver the same number of barrels out the end
point
without actually trying to calculate transport time or any such. The
fuel
that goes into company A's tank could have just as easily been put in
by
another company shipping the same product.

As it is a totally fungible commodity, the pipeline company just logs
how
many barrels in one end and that many barrels belong to company 'A' at
the
other end.

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same
now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low
sulfur
stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also
ultra-low
sulfur now?

daestrom

My mother ran out of heating oil and asked if I could bring her some. I
didn't have a barrel, but the oil distributor said he had an empty I
could
borrow. When I got there he was filling it with #2 pump diesel. The same
stuff you would put in your diesel pickup or tractor. He said it was the
same stuff and my mother's furnace ran just fine.

Richard W.

Thre are two sorts of heating oil. 25 sec and 35sec. (That's how we
measure the viscosity in the UK.) 25sec (kerosine) is for
vapourising burners. [Basically a big wick]
35 sec (= to diesel) for pressure jet burners.
25 sec can be burnt in a petrol engine. However the engine needs to
be hot before it will run. In days of yore some agricultural tractors
ran on this (known as Tractor Vapourising Oil). They had two tanks,
you started the tractor on petrol & then switch over to the kerosine /
TVO Smelly exhaust.



I have seen some of those tractors, but the more common one is the
International which is started on gas and switched over to diesel when it
got warm. Some of those engines are fairly large.

Richard W.

"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
daestrom wrote:

But as far as #1, truck fuel, and aviation, is it still all the same now
that road diesel has to be that special (more expensive) ultra-low
sulfur stuff? Or is home heating oil (#1) and aviation jet fuel also
ultra-low sulfur now?

daestrom

I can't speak for everywhere, but up here in Alaska #1 diesel is JetA50
Grade, at the Distributer and I believe that ALL our fuel is Low-Sulfur
with a Lubricant Additive Package added to fuels used in Injector and
Turbine based ICE's. Since I burn only #1 in my Gensets, so that I only
have to have one grade of fuel here at the cabin, which has a Open Pot
Diesel Burning Cookstove, and is my Primary Heat, and Hot Water source.
The fuel I get has the Lubricant Additive Package added, and the same
tanker barge delivers to the AirStrip in the next town over, from the
same tank, on the same trip.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

I have known people who do the same thing, only they started to have to much
injector pump problems. They started adding 1 quart of 30 weight oil to a 25
gallon tank to put the sulpher the older diesel engines required. That was
quite a few years back they were doing this.

Richard W.

Mr. Survivalist is at risk of big fines from the DOT.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..


I believe the only difference is dye and taxes. The DOT
is always after truck drivers using home heating oil to
run their trucks because it doesn't have the road tax
included in it's price.

TDD

I believe you're right on that. I met a survivalist once
years ago. All his
cars and trucks were diesel. He used home heating oil in
everything. He
claimed to have over 10,000 gallons stored up. Never bought
fuel at the pump
unless he was traveling. Every spring when the heating oil
prices would go
down, he filled up his tanks.

Richard W.

Had a couple friends who managed to, often, run out of home
heating oil. Diesel runs fine. Home heat oil also works fine
with kerosene.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


My mother ran out of heating oil and asked if I could
bring her some. I
didn't have a barrel, but the oil distributor said he had
an empty I
could borrow. When I got there he was filling it with #2
pump diesel. The
same stuff you would put in your diesel pickup or tractor.
He said it was
the same stuff and my mother's furnace ran just fine.

I think I heard that started during world war two. When
gasoline was rationed, but kerosene was much easier
available.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..


I have seen some of those tractors, but the more common one
is the
International which is started on gas and switched over to
diesel when it
got warm. Some of those engines are fairly large.

Richard W.

harry wrote:

Thre are two sorts of heating oil. 25 sec and 35sec. (That's how we
measure the viscosity in the UK.) 25sec (kerosine) is for
vapourising burners. [Basically a big wick]
35 sec (= to diesel) for pressure jet burners.
25 sec can be burnt in a petrol engine. However the engine needs to
be hot before it will run. In days of yore some agricultural tractors
ran on this (known as Tractor Vapourising Oil). They had two tanks,
you started the tractor on petrol & then switch over to the kerosine /
TVO Smelly exhaust.

Yes, my late father had Fordson and Fordson Major tractors that were
like that, but I don't recall the smelly exhaust. The Ferguson he had
might have started off that way too, but he put a Perkins 3-cyl. diesel
in it.

I am guessing that they were optimized for running on TVO. Apart from
the greater cost of gasoline/petrol (even the red-dyed "commercial"
petrol, when that was available), they might not have run as well on the
latter.

Perce

Richard W. wrote:

Thre are two sorts of heating oil. 25 sec and 35sec. (That's how we
measure the viscosity in the UK.) 25sec (kerosine) is for
vapourising burners. [Basically a big wick]
35 sec (= to diesel) for pressure jet burners.
25 sec can be burnt in a petrol engine. However the engine needs to
be hot before it will run. In days of yore some agricultural tractors
ran on this (known as Tractor Vapourising Oil). They had two tanks,
you started the tractor on petrol & then switch over to the kerosine /
TVO Smelly exhaust.

I have seen some of those tractors, but the more common one is the
International which is started on gas and switched over to diesel when it
got warm. Some of those engines are fairly large.


My late father had an International TD9 that started on gasoline and
then changed over to diesel, but my understanding is that it was simply
because hand-cranking a diesel engine like that was impractical, not
because it needed to warm up. The compression ratio was much lower when
it was in gasoline mode, and cranking was far easier.

Perce

On Jul 24, 7:29 pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
Richard W. wrote:
Thre are two sorts of heating oil. 25 sec and 35sec. (That's how we
measure the viscosity in the UK.) 25sec (kerosine) is for
vapourising burners. [Basically a big wick]
35 sec (= to diesel) for pressure jet burners.
25 sec can be burnt in a petrol engine. However the engine needs to
be hot before it will run. In days of yore some agricultural tractors
ran on this (known as Tractor Vapourising Oil). They had two tanks,
you started the tractor on petrol & then switch over to the kerosine /
TVO Smelly exhaust.
I have seen some of those tractors, but the more common one is the
International which is started on gas and switched over to diesel when it
got warm. Some of those engines are fairly large.

My late father had an International TD9 that started on gasoline and
then changed over to diesel, but my understanding is that it was simply
because hand-cranking a diesel engine like that was impractical, not
because it needed to warm up. The compression ratio was much lower when
it was in gasoline mode, and cranking was far easier.

Perce

It was Massey Ferguson over here. A very small tractor. Harry
Ferguson invented the three point linkage. With it, this tiny
tractor could do the work of a much bigger tractor of the tiime. Only
the early ones had it (around sixty years ago)
Later ones had a diesel engine.
There are still lots about working on farms. TVO is no longer
available so they use heating oil now.
Don't see how you can change the commpression ratio of an engine
(except model aero engines) The engine had to be hot, the TVO needed
the hot spot to vapourise it. (pre crossflow technology)
Many early diesel engines could be hand cranked, they had a valve
lifter, a little lever on the crank case (side valves) It held the
exhaust valve open, you cranked like hell & then dropped the valves
and it started (hopefully) They had big flywheels in those days,
stored lots of energy.

harry wrote:

Thre are two sorts of heating oil. 25 sec and 35sec. (That's how we
measure the viscosity in the UK.) 25sec (kerosine) is for
vapourising burners. [Basically a big wick]
35 sec (= to diesel) for pressure jet burners.
25 sec can be burnt in a petrol engine. However the engine needs to
be hot before it will run. In days of yore some agricultural tractors
ran on this (known as Tractor Vapourising Oil). They had two tanks,
you started the tractor on petrol & then switch over to the kerosine /
TVO Smelly exhaust.

I have seen some of those tractors, but the more common one is the
International which is started on gas and switched over to diesel when it
got warm. Some of those engines are fairly large.

My late father had an International TD9 that started on gasoline and
then changed over to diesel, but my understanding is that it was simply
because hand-cranking a diesel engine like that was impractical, not
because it needed to warm up. The compression ratio was much lower when
it was in gasoline mode, and cranking was far easier.

It was Massey Ferguson over here. A very small tractor. Harry
Ferguson invented the three point linkage. With it, this tiny
tractor could do the work of a much bigger tractor of the tiime. Only
the early ones had it (around sixty years ago)

I'm talking about "over there": the UK. It was just plain Ferguson to
start with, and Massey-Harris was a different make. Then they merged --
or M-H bought Ferguson. Maybe in the late 1950s.

Later ones had a diesel engine.
There are still lots about working on farms. TVO is no longer
available so they use heating oil now.
Don't see how you can change the commpression ratio of an engine
(except model aero engines) The engine had to be hot, the TVO needed
the hot spot to vapourise it. (pre crossflow technology)
Many early diesel engines could be hand cranked, they had a valve
lifter, a little lever on the crank case (side valves) It held the
exhaust valve open, you cranked like hell & then dropped the valves
and it started (hopefully) They had big flywheels in those days,
stored lots of energy.

I understand that the IH TD-x tractors/'dozers had an additional valve
in each cylinder that opened to an "extension of the combustion chamber"
(for want of a better term) in which the spark plugs were located, thus
reducing the compression ratio; petrol/gasoline would have exploded
rather than burned with a diesel-appropriate compression ratio. They had
spark plugs, magneto and carburettor as well as injectors. There were
two controls to effect the changeover, IIRC: one near the left front
(perhaps to switch fuel supplies), plus a lever accessible from the
driver's seat. Clouds of black smoke at the changeover.

Steered with two clutch levers and two brake pedals. Steering by clutch
reversed when going downhill! I only ever drove one in a field, never on
a road.

Perce

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I think I heard that started during world war two. When
gasoline was rationed, but kerosene was much easier
available.

"Richard W." wrote

I have seen some of those tractors, but the more common one
is the International which is started on gas and switched over to
diesel when it got warm. Some of those engines are fairly large.

When you say 'gas', do you mean ( liquid petroleum / natural etc ) gas
or gasoline ? We solve this confusion in the UK by calling gasoline
'petrol' ( from 'petroleum' ). Petrol, gas and diesel engined vehicles
all operate on our roads.

Graham

and to the MORMOM, please don't 'top post' since most people prefer to
see a post that starts with thee question and finishes with the answer
or follow-up comment.

--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious
adjustment to my email address

On Jul 22, 1:07*pm, harry wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:57 pm, George wrote:





harry wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:04 pm, George wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
*The Daring Dufas wrote:
*By the way, correct me if I'm wrong
but isn't jet fuel blended with additives to prevent gelling or microbe
infestation since jet fuel is often exposed to environmental extremes?
TDD
Nope, "Jet Fuel" as you call it is JetA50, and is the same thing a #1
Diesel, Home Heating Oil, and a few other names. *The difference is,
that to be classed JetA50, and sold for Aviation Fuel, it MUST be
Filtered to FAA Spec, and be within the Specific Gravity, FAA Spec.
So, what the Distributer does, is he has only one Grade of #1 Diesel in
his tanks and when he pumps it for Transport to a customer, it goes thru
a different set of filtering for Aviation, than for Home Heating, or #1
Diesel, but it all comes from the SAME Tank.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and I have seen the tanks and
pumping systems at multiple fuel dumps and they all had a totally
separate tank for Jet A if Jet A was delivered from that facility. In my
area there are two huge fuel dumps but the Jet A used at the local
airports is *trucked in on transports from another state. Also there
isn't a tank called "#1 diesel". They have multiple tanks for ULSD and
LSD and kerosene.

* With #2 Diesel, in cold

climates, they have what is called "Winter Mix" where the Distributer
will mix #1 and #2 Diesel, to lower the GellPoint of the fuel when
loading the Truck or Barge, for deliveries starting about August, and
increase the Ratio of #1 to #2 the farther North and away from the coast
the fuel is destine for. For Gasoline, the distributer will have an
"Additive Package" that they add to the Tank when dispatching a Load,
designed for the prospective customer.
It is more complicated than that. Certain additives are required and
certain additives are optional. They have an array of injector pumps
that meter in the additives when the truck is on the loading rack
according to what the customer purchased.

* Many times Shell, Chevron, and

Mobile Gas Stations, will get their fuel from the same Distributer or
supplier and the only difference in the fuel is the "Additive Package"
put in, as the basic fuel, ALL COMES FROM THE SAME TANK. Depends on who
owns the Refinery, or where the Distributer bough his fuel from, the
last time. I have seen the same truck at two or three different Brand
Gas Stations, in town, on the same day, delivering fuel. the distributer
is 250 miles away, so you know they didn't fill the truck three times
that day.
All truck tankers have bulkheads to form multiple compartments. That
adds strength and limits spillage in case the tanker is damaged and it
also allows them to haul different product in each compartment if they want.

You can add paraffin (kerosine) to diesel to stop it gelling in cold
weather. (Mix thoroughly).

I think maybe you meant add kerosene to lower the amount of parafin?
Parafin is what is responsible for the gelling effect.

As well as visible water in fuel there can be dissolved water. *For
most applications this doesn't matter. However in extremely low
temperatures ice can form *so blocking small jets/apertures. *This
can't be filtered out but there is a filterlike device that chemically
removes dissolved water in fuel. They use them on airfields, usually
adjacent to the regular filters. *Ocassionally you see a combined
device.

What you call kerosine in the USA we in the UK call paraffin.
Like hoods & bonnets. Bumpers & fenders. *Trunks & boots. * *:-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And when the kids in school ask for a rubber nobody stares, it means
eraser