"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that they can be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else make an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if they do I
have never heard about it.

Caution. Many portable generators (and some that are not-so-portable)
have only one bearing on the generator rotor. The other part of the rotor
is supported by the engine crankshaft. It would take a machine shop to
make an "adapter" to swap engines for most of those units.

Further; unless you engineered an adapter that incorporated a bearing,
belt driving one of those generators would be impossible.

Vaughn

That's exactly how they do it. The housing has no bearing on the engine end.
Yet some have a place for a bearing, only the shaft is made wrong. I have a
lathe and mill and once I figured out what was needed to do the job. It
might take less than a day depending on what had to be done.

Richard W.

In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:

Just want to make a NOTE, Here.....

With all the interest in Gensets that this thread has generated, it
would seem that a bit of Term Definition would be in order....

1. Prime Power Generator: A Generator that was designed and built to
provide power 24/7/365, for its life, with periodic Maintainance being
done at OEM prescribed intervals. Typically these turn 1800 Rpms OR Less
and usually are bigger than 5 Kw, and can be as big as 5000 Kw. Design
Lifetime is "Indefinant" with OEM Spec'd Periodic Rebuilds, usually in
the 10-20K Hour range for Topends and 20-40k Hour IN-Frames.

2. Standby Power Generator: Similar to Prime Power Generator but rated
to provide power 24/7 for anywhere from a few Hours, Days, or Weeks.
Again with periodic Maintainance being done at the OEM prescribed
intervals. Usually in the 5 Kw to 1000 Kw Range. Lifetime is
"Indefinant" with OEM Spec'd Periodic Rebuilds, usually in the 10-20K
Hour range for Topends and 20-40k Hour IN-Frames.

3. Contractor Grade Generator: These are much less robust than either
of the two above, but the are designed to provide power for 18/6 for
there operating life. Maybe 1800 Rpm, or 3600 Rpm, depending on their
Design Lifetime, and usually are rebuild-able which can extend their
useful life, out 3-5 times. Usually will have a Pressure Lubeoil system
and LubeOil Filter. Design Lifetimes, with OEM Spec'd Maintainance, in
the 10-20K Hour Range.

4. Consumer Grade Generator: These are typically what is found in
Hardware Stores, and Discount Houses. Mostly 3600 Rpm Units, and Splash
Lubed with No Oil Filter. Come is various quality Grades from "Superb",
all the way down to "Cheap Junk, even when New of the Shelf" Design
Lifetime, with OEM Periodic Maintainance, will vary from 500 Hours to
maybe 10K Hours, for one of the "Superb" Grade Units. Most of these type
units, are built in limited Factory Runs, with limited Parts
availability, and this severely limits there rebuild-ability, due to
lack of parts after just a few years.


From the discussions seen on this thread so far, we are not talking
about either of the first two categories, and mostly about Consumer
Grade Gensets.

If one REALLY wants a GOOD Genset, then it will cost a lot more than
what Costco is charging, and basically the Old Adage, "You get what you
pay for", applies here. I have had a couple of Prime Power Generators
in the 20Kw Range, that were both in the 66K Hour Operational Range when
they were replaced, and that only happened because they were 20 years
old, and InFrame Parts were no longer available from the OEM in Japan.
Replacement costs were in the $6K range, and if you figure in how many
Contractor Grade Gensets one would have to buy to do the same job, they
were cheap, at twice the price. I also have a Fairbanks/Morse 45B/3Kw
that is over 60 years old, was last InFramed 5 years ago, and will not
need another, in my lifetime... It runs a neighbors operation, 16/7/180
each summer, and turns at 1200 Rpm. I sold a Lister 12 Kw last summer,
that came from a Mountaintop Telco Microwave Site, that had 120K
Operational Hours on it, with InFrames every 40K Hours. It had just 120
Hours on it after the last InFrame, and the only reason they replaced
it, was they added more load at the site, and had to put in a bigger
Genset. It went to a neighbor for $1.5KUS....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that they can
be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else make an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if they do
I
have never heard about it.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying but in order to use a generator head
from a tapered shaft engine a LOT of machining would probably be required.
And it sounds like you know how to do it. Are you thinking of something
like a tapered shaft that bolts onto the rotor/field in much the same way as
it is normally done? Would this basically be about the same as using the
crankshaft? Plus you would still need a way to mount the stator so would
you be cutting away the engine case, or keep the engine more or less in tact
and just reworking the opposite, non PTO end? I don't recall ever hearing
of anyone actually doing this so I'd like to hear more about it. Plus, if
you have any pictures...

I can't swear to this but I THINK the taper on my Honda GX270 is the same as
the taper on my Tecumseh HM100, except the shaft is longer on the Tecumseh.
When I replaced the gen head with a "generic" head on the Tecumseh I had to
use a 1 1/2" spacer to accomodate the longer shaft. I'm pretty sure the
same head would bolt directly onto the GX270. OTOH I do recall attaching
the generic generator head to a 4 HP Honda engine, just to see how many
watts it would produce (I got about 2200) so maybe the taper is smaller....


Caution. Many portable generators (and some that are not-so-portable)
have only one bearing on the generator rotor. The other part of the
rotor
is supported by the engine crankshaft. It would take a machine shop to
make an "adapter" to swap engines for most of those units.

Further; unless you engineered an adapter that incorporated a bearing,
belt driving one of those generators would be impossible.

Vaughn

That's exactly how they do it. The housing has no bearing on the engine
end.
Yet some have a place for a bearing, only the shaft is made wrong. I have
a
lathe and mill and once I figured out what was needed to do the job. It
might take less than a day depending on what had to be done.

Richard W.

"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:

Just want to make a NOTE, Here.....

With all the interest in Gensets that this thread has generated, it
would seem that a bit of Term Definition would be in order....

1. Prime Power Generator: A Generator that was designed and built to
provide power 24/7/365, for its life, with periodic Maintainance being
done at OEM prescribed intervals. Typically these turn 1800 Rpms OR Less
and usually are bigger than 5 Kw, and can be as big as 5000 Kw. Design
Lifetime is "Indefinant" with OEM Spec'd Periodic Rebuilds, usually in
the 10-20K Hour range for Topends and 20-40k Hour IN-Frames.

2. Standby Power Generator: Similar to Prime Power Generator but rated
to provide power 24/7 for anywhere from a few Hours, Days, or Weeks.
Again with periodic Maintainance being done at the OEM prescribed
intervals. Usually in the 5 Kw to 1000 Kw Range. Lifetime is
"Indefinant" with OEM Spec'd Periodic Rebuilds, usually in the 10-20K
Hour range for Topends and 20-40k Hour IN-Frames.

3. Contractor Grade Generator: These are much less robust than either
of the two above, but the are designed to provide power for 18/6 for
there operating life. Maybe 1800 Rpm, or 3600 Rpm, depending on their
Design Lifetime, and usually are rebuild-able which can extend their
useful life, out 3-5 times. Usually will have a Pressure Lubeoil system
and LubeOil Filter. Design Lifetimes, with OEM Spec'd Maintainance, in
the 10-20K Hour Range.

4. Consumer Grade Generator: These are typically what is found in
Hardware Stores, and Discount Houses. Mostly 3600 Rpm Units, and Splash
Lubed with No Oil Filter. Come is various quality Grades from "Superb",
all the way down to "Cheap Junk, even when New of the Shelf" Design
Lifetime, with OEM Periodic Maintainance, will vary from 500 Hours to
maybe 10K Hours, for one of the "Superb" Grade Units. Most of these type
units, are built in limited Factory Runs, with limited Parts
availability, and this severely limits there rebuild-ability, due to
lack of parts after just a few years.


From the discussions seen on this thread so far, we are not talking
about either of the first two categories, and mostly about Consumer
Grade Gensets.

If one REALLY wants a GOOD Genset, then it will cost a lot more than
what Costco is charging, and basically the Old Adage, "You get what you
pay for", applies here. I have had a couple of Prime Power Generators
in the 20Kw Range, that were both in the 66K Hour Operational Range when
they were replaced, and that only happened because they were 20 years
old, and InFrame Parts were no longer available from the OEM in Japan.
Replacement costs were in the $6K range, and if you figure in how many
Contractor Grade Gensets one would have to buy to do the same job, they
were cheap, at twice the price. I also have a Fairbanks/Morse 45B/3Kw
that is over 60 years old, was last InFramed 5 years ago, and will not
need another, in my lifetime... It runs a neighbors operation, 16/7/180
each summer, and turns at 1200 Rpm. I sold a Lister 12 Kw last summer,
that came from a Mountaintop Telco Microwave Site, that had 120K
Operational Hours on it, with InFrames every 40K Hours. It had just 120
Hours on it after the last InFrame, and the only reason they replaced
it, was they added more load at the site, and had to put in a bigger
Genset. It went to a neighbor for $1.5KUS....

--
Bruce in alaska

Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I think
some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap, crappy generators
;-) I would like to find something that would qualify as a Prime Power or
Standby Power generator that would directly charge my 48 volt battery bank.
Know of any? If I ever get my 6.5 HP engine to drive my Delco alternator
satisfactorily and reliably I would be very interested in either driving it
with a high quality engine, or replacing it with something else altogether
providing it will hold up to a few hours of every day use.

add path after fast to reply

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that they can
be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else make an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if they do
I
have never heard about it.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying but in order to use a generator
head
from a tapered shaft engine a LOT of machining would probably be required.
And it sounds like you know how to do it. Are you thinking of something
like a tapered shaft that bolts onto the rotor/field in much the same way
as
it is normally done? Would this basically be about the same as using the
crankshaft? Plus you would still need a way to mount the stator so would
you be cutting away the engine case, or keep the engine more or less in
tact
and just reworking the opposite, non PTO end? I don't recall ever hearing
of anyone actually doing this so I'd like to hear more about it. Plus, if
you have any pictures...

I don't have any pictures, but someone else posted on the net how he did it.
The female taper that goes onto the engine crankshaft is used with a home
made shaft, that has the same taper as engine it mounts to. The generator
has a flange that bolts to the engine and if I remember corectly it has a
place to install a bearing, but one isn't used when it's directly bolted to
the engine. One would have to find the proper bearing and make the shaft
diameter to fit with a shoulder for thrust load. Which would be a very light
load. Also You would have to make some feet to bolt onto the unit to support
the engine end of the gen head, since you're not bolting it to an engine.
You don't use the engine at all, or any piece of the engine. Which gets away
from lubracation of crankshaft bearing.

It will take some thought, but if you know how to use a lathe? I'ts not
really that hard to do. I will try to find the link that was posted to one
that has already been done.



I can't swear to this but I THINK the taper on my Honda GX270 is the same
as
the taper on my Tecumseh HM100, except the shaft is longer on the
Tecumseh.
When I replaced the gen head with a "generic" head on the Tecumseh I had
to
use a 1 1/2" spacer to accomodate the longer shaft. I'm pretty sure the
same head would bolt directly onto the GX270. OTOH I do recall attaching
the generic generator head to a 4 HP Honda engine, just to see how many
watts it would produce (I got about 2200) so maybe the taper is
smaller....


I know the Honda 5.5 fits right on same the 6 HP Tecumseh. I did it, but
the 5.5 Honda would run at the rated watts like the 6 HP Tecumseh. So one
would probably need a 7.5 HP Honda to do the same job, but I don't know if
they even make one that bolts right on.

Richard W.

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that they
can
be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else make an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if they
do
I
have never heard about it.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying but in order to use a generator
head
from a tapered shaft engine a LOT of machining would probably be
required.
And it sounds like you know how to do it. Are you thinking of something
like a tapered shaft that bolts onto the rotor/field in much the same way
as
it is normally done? Would this basically be about the same as using the
crankshaft? Plus you would still need a way to mount the stator so would
you be cutting away the engine case, or keep the engine more or less in
tact
and just reworking the opposite, non PTO end? I don't recall ever
hearing
of anyone actually doing this so I'd like to hear more about it. Plus,
if
you have any pictures...

I don't have any pictures, but someone else posted on the net how he did
it. The female taper that goes onto the engine crankshaft is used with a
home made shaft, that has the same taper as engine it mounts to. The
generator has a flange that bolts to the engine and if I remember corectly
it has a place to install a bearing, but one isn't used when it's directly
bolted to the engine. One would have to find the proper bearing and make
the shaft diameter to fit with a shoulder for thrust load. Which would be
a very light load. Also You would have to make some feet to bolt onto the
unit to support the engine end of the gen head, since you're not bolting
it to an engine. You don't use the engine at all, or any piece of the
engine. Which gets away from lubracation of crankshaft bearing.

It will take some thought, but if you know how to use a lathe? I'ts not
really that hard to do. I will try to find the link that was posted to one
that has already been done.


I found the link to one that someone else has done.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...ight=generator

He doesn't go into the details, but he has some pictures.

Richard W.

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that they
can
be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else make
an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if they
do
I
have never heard about it.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying but in order to use a generator
head
from a tapered shaft engine a LOT of machining would probably be
required.
And it sounds like you know how to do it. Are you thinking of
something
like a tapered shaft that bolts onto the rotor/field in much the same
way
as
it is normally done? Would this basically be about the same as using
the
crankshaft? Plus you would still need a way to mount the stator so
would
you be cutting away the engine case, or keep the engine more or less in
tact
and just reworking the opposite, non PTO end? I don't recall ever
hearing
of anyone actually doing this so I'd like to hear more about it. Plus,
if
you have any pictures...

I don't have any pictures, but someone else posted on the net how he did
it. The female taper that goes onto the engine crankshaft is used with
a
home made shaft, that has the same taper as engine it mounts to. The
generator has a flange that bolts to the engine and if I remember
corectly
it has a place to install a bearing, but one isn't used when it's
directly
bolted to the engine. One would have to find the proper bearing and make
the shaft diameter to fit with a shoulder for thrust load. Which would
be
a very light load. Also You would have to make some feet to bolt onto
the
unit to support the engine end of the gen head, since you're not bolting
it to an engine. You don't use the engine at all, or any piece of the
engine. Which gets away from lubracation of crankshaft bearing.

It will take some thought, but if you know how to use a lathe? I'ts not
really that hard to do. I will try to find the link that was posted to
one
that has already been done.


I found the link to one that someone else has done.


http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...ight=generator

He doesn't go into the details, but he has some pictures.

Richard W.



Thanks for the pics. When you said "belt drive" my mind was filled with all
kinds of complications and confusion. The direct drive I can actually
grasp. ;-)

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that they
can
be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else make
an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if
they
do
I
have never heard about it.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying but in order to use a generator
head
from a tapered shaft engine a LOT of machining would probably be
required.
And it sounds like you know how to do it. Are you thinking of
something
like a tapered shaft that bolts onto the rotor/field in much the same
way
as
it is normally done? Would this basically be about the same as using
the
crankshaft? Plus you would still need a way to mount the stator so
would
you be cutting away the engine case, or keep the engine more or less
in
tact
and just reworking the opposite, non PTO end? I don't recall ever
hearing
of anyone actually doing this so I'd like to hear more about it.
Plus,
if
you have any pictures...

I don't have any pictures, but someone else posted on the net how he
did
it. The female taper that goes onto the engine crankshaft is used with
a
home made shaft, that has the same taper as engine it mounts to. The
generator has a flange that bolts to the engine and if I remember
corectly
it has a place to install a bearing, but one isn't used when it's
directly
bolted to the engine. One would have to find the proper bearing and
make
the shaft diameter to fit with a shoulder for thrust load. Which would
be
a very light load. Also You would have to make some feet to bolt onto
the
unit to support the engine end of the gen head, since you're not
bolting
it to an engine. You don't use the engine at all, or any piece of the
engine. Which gets away from lubracation of crankshaft bearing.

It will take some thought, but if you know how to use a lathe? I'ts
not
really that hard to do. I will try to find the link that was posted to
one
that has already been done.


I found the link to one that someone else has done.


http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...ight=generator

He doesn't go into the details, but he has some pictures.

Richard W.



Thanks for the pics. When you said "belt drive" my mind was filled with
all
kinds of complications and confusion. The direct drive I can actually
grasp. ;-)

I am sure you see that it can be done either way. I must say I prefer to use
a coupling whenever possible. No belts to break or adjust and no side load
on the engine crankshaft.

Richard W.

"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than the
best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have six figure
incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
...

I know people have made adapters for generator heads so that
they
can
be
used with a belt and pulley or direct coupled. I would like to
try
running one with a 6 hp diesel engine. This may be a way to use
generators ends with the Tecumseh engines, since no one else
make
an
engine with the proper taper to fit the gen heads. At least if
they
do
I
have never heard about it.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying but in order to use a
generator
head
from a tapered shaft engine a LOT of machining would probably be
required.
And it sounds like you know how to do it. Are you thinking of
something
like a tapered shaft that bolts onto the rotor/field in much the
same
way
as
it is normally done? Would this basically be about the same as
using
the
crankshaft? Plus you would still need a way to mount the stator so
would
you be cutting away the engine case, or keep the engine more or less
in
tact
and just reworking the opposite, non PTO end? I don't recall ever
hearing
of anyone actually doing this so I'd like to hear more about it.
Plus,
if
you have any pictures...

I don't have any pictures, but someone else posted on the net how he
did
it. The female taper that goes onto the engine crankshaft is used
with
a
home made shaft, that has the same taper as engine it mounts to. The
generator has a flange that bolts to the engine and if I remember
corectly
it has a place to install a bearing, but one isn't used when it's
directly
bolted to the engine. One would have to find the proper bearing and
make
the shaft diameter to fit with a shoulder for thrust load. Which
would
be
a very light load. Also You would have to make some feet to bolt onto
the
unit to support the engine end of the gen head, since you're not
bolting
it to an engine. You don't use the engine at all, or any piece of the
engine. Which gets away from lubracation of crankshaft bearing.

It will take some thought, but if you know how to use a lathe? I'ts
not
really that hard to do. I will try to find the link that was posted
to
one
that has already been done.


I found the link to one that someone else has done.



http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...ight=generator

He doesn't go into the details, but he has some pictures.

Richard W.



Thanks for the pics. When you said "belt drive" my mind was filled with
all
kinds of complications and confusion. The direct drive I can actually
grasp. ;-)

I am sure you see that it can be done either way. I must say I prefer to
use
a coupling whenever possible. No belts to break or adjust and no side load
on the engine crankshaft.

Richard W.



I'm tying to come up with a way to charge my 48 volt battery bank by using a
tapered shaft. I would like to avoid even the LoveJoy coupler if possible.
I'm not a machinist so it makes it more of a challenge. I've been using a
belt-driven 63 amp alternator and have been having lotsa belt problems and
the best solution so far seems to be to use double pulleys and two 5/8"
belts rather than a single pulley and a 1/2" belt. The alternator is
capable of charging my batteries quite satisfactorily if only I can get it
to keep running.

"z" wrote in message
. ..
"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than the
best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have six
figure
incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary


If only I could find someone to pay the all the stuff I want to play with...

Part of my problem is that I simply don't need a huge generator that
produces 20K watts or more. All I need is about 3000 watts. Any more than
that I wouldn't know what to do with it.

"Ulysses" wrote in
:


"z" wrote in message
. ..
"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than
the best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have
six
figure
incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary


If only I could find someone to pay the all the stuff I want to play
with...

Part of my problem is that I simply don't need a huge generator that
produces 20K watts or more. All I need is about 3000 watts. Any more
than that I wouldn't know what to do with it.

Yeah me too -- i live happy on around 1000 with the occasional need for -
2-3k. Maybe this winter i'll try to build a generator out of parts like
you are doing. My hondas are mostly dying now. Just plain worn out
after all these years. I like the idea of using a custom exaust.

Might have a look for a used onan like those guys were saying too rather
than shelling out the big bucks (which I don't have) for another eu2000

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


I'm tying to come up with a way to charge my 48 volt battery bank by using
a
tapered shaft. I would like to avoid even the LoveJoy coupler if
possible.
I'm not a machinist so it makes it more of a challenge. I've been using a
belt-driven 63 amp alternator and have been having lotsa belt problems and
the best solution so far seems to be to use double pulleys and two 5/8"
belts rather than a single pulley and a 1/2" belt. The alternator is
capable of charging my batteries quite satisfactorily if only I can get it
to keep running.



Try an alternator pulley for a tractor. The International Harvester 1066
and the John Deere 4430 both use a dual groove pulley on the alt. IIRC the
IH pulley is a larger diameter than the JD one. Your other option would be
to go to a serpentine belt setup but that would require very precise belt
alignment and a suitable pulley for the engine.

"Daniel Who Wants to Know" wrote in
message ...
"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


I'm tying to come up with a way to charge my 48 volt battery bank by
using
a
tapered shaft. I would like to avoid even the LoveJoy coupler if
possible.
I'm not a machinist so it makes it more of a challenge. I've been using
a
belt-driven 63 amp alternator and have been having lotsa belt problems
and
the best solution so far seems to be to use double pulleys and two 5/8"
belts rather than a single pulley and a 1/2" belt. The alternator is
capable of charging my batteries quite satisfactorily if only I can get
it
to keep running.



Try an alternator pulley for a tractor. The International Harvester 1066
and the John Deere 4430 both use a dual groove pulley on the alt. IIRC
the
IH pulley is a larger diameter than the JD one. Your other option would
be
to go to a serpentine belt setup but that would require very precise belt
alignment and a suitable pulley for the engine.


Thanks! Someone else suggested looking at farm equipment but I didn't
really know where to start. Now I have specific tractors for reference!

"z" wrote in message
. ..
"Ulysses" wrote in
:


"z" wrote in message
. ..
"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than
the best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have
six
figure
incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary


If only I could find someone to pay the all the stuff I want to play
with...

Part of my problem is that I simply don't need a huge generator that
produces 20K watts or more. All I need is about 3000 watts. Any more
than that I wouldn't know what to do with it.

Yeah me too -- i live happy on around 1000 with the occasional need for -
2-3k. Maybe this winter i'll try to build a generator out of parts like
you are doing. My hondas are mostly dying now. Just plain worn out
after all these years. I like the idea of using a custom exaust.

My eu2000 #2 still runs as long as I put oil in it every hour or so. Enough
power to run my little chain saw anyway.

To charge my 48 volt bank at C10 I need about 3500 watts but since batteries
don't continue to charge at the higher rate then I can squeeze by with 3000
watts. I suppose there might be some advantages to using a slighty bigger
than 63 amps alternator but then you would need a bigger engine, more
gasoline, and the extra power would only be needed at the beginning of the
charge cycle. Since I have the OutBack inverters it is possible to run my
well pump with the engine-driven alternator outputting only about 35 amps
AND running one inverter as a charger with a 2000 watt 120V single phase
generator to get a total of around 50-60 amps which will allow me to run the
pump without discharging the batteries (It'll even charge at about 10 amps
with the well pump running). And, as you probably know, instead of buying a
third eu2000 I bought the cheap UST GG2300 for under $200 and have had no
regrets (not many, anyway). I had to replace the muffler (fell apart inside
but still worked) and it has taken me two weeks to remove the rotor from the
tapered shaft so I can replace the impeller but it has 3000 hours on it and
still starts with one pull and has more power than the Honda. They replaced
the muffler under warranty plus sent me a new air filter for free. If it
turns out that I need to replace the whole rotor it's only $25! Their
service center/parts distribution/technical support is in Fullerton (Orange
County) so I'm lucky that I don't even have to pay shipping since they are
close by, but even with shipping the parts seems to be WAY cheaper than if
it was a Coleman or Homelite etc.

Might have a look for a used onan like those guys were saying too rather
than shelling out the big bucks (which I don't have) for another eu2000

Yea, the Onan is very appealing, especially since I learned they run at a
slower speed. But I can also run my engine/alternator at a slower speed
once the batteries get somewhat charged. Maybe not quite as low as 1800
rpm, but probably in the low 2000s.

In article ,
z wrote:

"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than the
best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have six figure
incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary

I am reTired, and the only reason I have, what I have, is that I got an
education, worked HARD for 40 Years, saved my money, invested wisely,
and knew when to get out. Now, I have skills that are sale-able even in
reTirement, and I live where, and how, I want to. NO Trust Fund, and
never had a Six Figure Income in any ONE Year, in my life. I always
worked for wages, even when I was a FED, and now folks pay me for those
skills, I have acquired over a lifetime, as a Consultant, when I choose
to actually accept a Job.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Bruce in alaska wrote in
:

In article ,
z wrote:

"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than
the best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have
six figure incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary

I am reTired, and the only reason I have, what I have, is that I got
an education, worked HARD for 40 Years, saved my money, invested
wisely, and knew when to get out. Now, I have skills that are
sale-able even in reTirement, and I live where, and how, I want to. NO
Trust Fund, and never had a Six Figure Income in any ONE Year, in my
life. I always worked for wages, even when I was a FED, and now folks
pay me for those skills, I have acquired over a lifetime, as a
Consultant, when I choose to actually accept a Job.


Yeah sorry didn't mean to imply anything by saying that. I just was
wishing I had a trust fund man

In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:

My eu2000 #2 still runs as long as I put oil in it every hour or so. Enough
power to run my little chain saw anyway.

To charge my 48 volt bank at C10 I need about 3500 watts but since batteries
don't continue to charge at the higher rate then I can squeeze by with 3000
watts. I suppose there might be some advantages to using a slighty bigger
than 63 amps alternator but then you would need a bigger engine, more
gasoline, and the extra power would only be needed at the beginning of the
charge cycle. Since I have the OutBack inverters it is possible to run my
well pump with the engine-driven alternator outputting only about 35 amps
AND running one inverter as a charger with a 2000 watt 120V single phase
generator to get a total of around 50-60 amps which will allow me to run the
pump without discharging the batteries (It'll even charge at about 10 amps
with the well pump running). And, as you probably know, instead of buying a
third eu2000 I bought the cheap UST GG2300 for under $200 and have had no
regrets (not many, anyway). I had to replace the muffler (fell apart inside
but still worked) and it has taken me two weeks to remove the rotor from the
tapered shaft so I can replace the impeller but it has 3000 hours on it and
still starts with one pull and has more power than the Honda. They replaced
the muffler under warranty plus sent me a new air filter for free. If it
turns out that I need to replace the whole rotor it's only $25! Their
service center/parts distribution/technical support is in Fullerton (Orange
County) so I'm lucky that I don't even have to pay shipping since they are
close by, but even with shipping the parts seems to be WAY cheaper than if
it was a Coleman or Homelite etc.

Might have a look for a used onan like those guys were saying too rather
than shelling out the big bucks (which I don't have) for another eu2000

Yea, the Onan is very appealing, especially since I learned they run at a
slower speed. But I can also run my engine/alternator at a slower speed
once the batteries get somewhat charged. Maybe not quite as low as 1800
rpm, but probably in the low 2000s.

Look into one of the venerable Onan CCK's or even a newer NH or BG
Series. They were built in 3 to 5 Kw Models, and can be had for less
One Kilobuck, easily. Lots of these came from Motorhomes, that have died
and gone to Motorhome Heaven. Usually have less than 3000 Hours on them,
which is 1/3 their Primary Lifetime, with proper Periodic Maintainance.
they run at 1800 Rpm, and actually the older ones, without the PCB
Engine Controls, and better, and more reliable than the newer ones.
Next up in class are Onan J Series Gensets, that come both in Gas, and
Diesel, Versions, as well as Air and Water Cooled versions. The Gas
Fueled versions come in Twin 6.5Kw,and Quad cyl. 12.5Kw versions, that
are easily converted to Dry Gas fuel. If your in to Diesels, the J
Series Onans are the ones to look for. They come in Single 3Kw, Twin
6.5Kw, and Quad 12.5Kw versions. Onan built Marine Versions of ALL the
J Series Gensets, and these are easily setup for CoGen type operations.
They also built Radiator Cooled version of both the Gas and Diesel
Powered gensets in various configurations. I bought a number of 3Kw
Diesel J Series Gensets, all for less than $500US, both Air and Water
Cooled, and fellow gave me an air Cooled 6.5Kw Diesel this spring, just
for hauling it away, and I live far out in the Alaskan Bush, where there
aren't a lot of these around. Look around where you live on eBay and
CraigList, Onan built thousands of these each year, for about three
decades, so there are a pile still out there kicking around, and most
folks have no clue, what they are, or what they are worth, to the right
folks, who do.....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

z wrote in news:Xns9C4968439B9FDzyadayadayada@
216.196.97.130:

Bruce in alaska wrote in
:

In article ,
z wrote:

"Ulysses" wrote in
:


Thanks for posting that Bruce. Basically what I'm saying is that I
think some cheap, crappy generators are better than other cheap,
crappy generators ;-)

I know we're always trying for the least worst solutions rather than
the best. Must be because we're not living off a trust fund or have
six figure incomes huh?

best of luck man

-zachary

I am reTired, and the only reason I have, what I have, is that I got
an education, worked HARD for 40 Years, saved my money, invested
wisely, and knew when to get out. Now, I have skills that are
sale-able even in reTirement, and I live where, and how, I want to. NO
Trust Fund, and never had a Six Figure Income in any ONE Year, in my
life. I always worked for wages, even when I was a FED, and now folks
pay me for those skills, I have acquired over a lifetime, as a
Consultant, when I choose to actually accept a Job.


Yeah sorry didn't mean to imply anything by saying that. I just was
wishing I had a trust fund man


Actually some new people bought the old foster place down the road from
me a few miles and I got the trust fund impression. We were talking
about home power at a BBQ and they were telling me how they had big plans
for putting in wind power etc.

For one thing the spot they bought is terrible for wind power but that
didn't seem to bother them. Like me they'd need to send the power at
least 3/4 a mile to get any wind. And I was reminding them of 140 MPH
winds we get from time to time and how to make a tower/turbine that can
withstand that. And they've got no road or access to the only place on
their property to do wind, and its on steep hill with timber .. its a big
****ing job in anycase.

No problem they were like 'well we can get these wind turbines for only
30,000 so we're thinking about putting two in to see how they go.

Oh.. right. OK then if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money on
it than I guess it can be made to work. The thing they COULD do on that
place is hydro so I was talking with them about that. The guy was
convinced he wanted to use an archemedes screw with a concrete shoot of
some kind with some home made rare earth magnets he had to generate
power. We were all pretty drunk by that time so I'm going to have to
talk with them more seriously at some point.

But the 30k turbines cracked me up. Yeah I could buy a russian nuclear
sub and put it in the creek and run off the power plant in that thing too
if I had a bazzillion dollars to spend on it.

So I think thats what got me in the trust fund mood -- I get so tired of
people telling me 'just buy a bunch of solar panels' and the like

Sorry about that I'm sure you understand

-z

"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:

My eu2000 #2 still runs as long as I put oil in it every hour or so.
Enough
power to run my little chain saw anyway.

To charge my 48 volt bank at C10 I need about 3500 watts but since
batteries
don't continue to charge at the higher rate then I can squeeze by with
3000
watts. I suppose there might be some advantages to using a slighty
bigger
than 63 amps alternator but then you would need a bigger engine, more
gasoline, and the extra power would only be needed at the beginning of
the
charge cycle. Since I have the OutBack inverters it is possible to run
my
well pump with the engine-driven alternator outputting only about 35
amps
AND running one inverter as a charger with a 2000 watt 120V single phase
generator to get a total of around 50-60 amps which will allow me to run
the
pump without discharging the batteries (It'll even charge at about 10
amps
with the well pump running). And, as you probably know, instead of
buying a
third eu2000 I bought the cheap UST GG2300 for under $200 and have had
no
regrets (not many, anyway). I had to replace the muffler (fell apart
inside
but still worked) and it has taken me two weeks to remove the rotor from
the
tapered shaft so I can replace the impeller but it has 3000 hours on it
and
still starts with one pull and has more power than the Honda. They
replaced
the muffler under warranty plus sent me a new air filter for free. If
it
turns out that I need to replace the whole rotor it's only $25! Their
service center/parts distribution/technical support is in Fullerton
(Orange
County) so I'm lucky that I don't even have to pay shipping since they
are
close by, but even with shipping the parts seems to be WAY cheaper than
if
it was a Coleman or Homelite etc.

Might have a look for a used onan like those guys were saying too
rather
than shelling out the big bucks (which I don't have) for another
eu2000

Yea, the Onan is very appealing, especially since I learned they run at
a
slower speed. But I can also run my engine/alternator at a slower speed
once the batteries get somewhat charged. Maybe not quite as low as 1800
rpm, but probably in the low 2000s.

Look into one of the venerable Onan CCK's or even a newer NH or BG
Series. They were built in 3 to 5 Kw Models, and can be had for less
One Kilobuck, easily. Lots of these came from Motorhomes, that have died
and gone to Motorhome Heaven. Usually have less than 3000 Hours on them,
which is 1/3 their Primary Lifetime, with proper Periodic Maintainance.
they run at 1800 Rpm, and actually the older ones, without the PCB
Engine Controls, and better, and more reliable than the newer ones.
Next up in class are Onan J Series Gensets, that come both in Gas, and
Diesel, Versions, as well as Air and Water Cooled versions. The Gas
Fueled versions come in Twin 6.5Kw,and Quad cyl. 12.5Kw versions, that
are easily converted to Dry Gas fuel. If your in to Diesels, the J
Series Onans are the ones to look for. They come in Single 3Kw, Twin
6.5Kw, and Quad 12.5Kw versions. Onan built Marine Versions of ALL the
J Series Gensets, and these are easily setup for CoGen type operations.
They also built Radiator Cooled version of both the Gas and Diesel
Powered gensets in various configurations. I bought a number of 3Kw
Diesel J Series Gensets, all for less than $500US, both Air and Water
Cooled, and fellow gave me an air Cooled 6.5Kw Diesel this spring, just
for hauling it away, and I live far out in the Alaskan Bush, where there
aren't a lot of these around. Look around where you live on eBay and
CraigList, Onan built thousands of these each year, for about three
decades, so there are a pile still out there kicking around, and most
folks have no clue, what they are, or what they are worth, to the right
folks, who do.....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's list now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:22 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
13hp, $180
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
Wayne

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:22 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
13hp, $180
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
Wayne

Neither of those engines will fit on a generator. You need an engine with a
tapered shaft to replace the engine on a generator. Unless you have a belt
driven generator head. See ebay sale #110406409961 and look at the shaft.

Richard W.

wrote in message
...

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.

OLD? They made them for a long time. Don't know when they stopped. If age
bothers you, find a newer one, but some of the older wones were the best
IMO.

My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.

Sorry, I don't know anything about your neighbor so I can't argue about
that, but I can tell you about my Onan because I have known it since it was
new. It was perhaps 30 years old when I bought it from my employer. Except
for sparkplugs and batteries, it was all-orignal. Nothing had ever broken!
To be honest, after I bought it, I did have some problems with points.
Perhaps the problem was the mechanic (me). Anyhow, I solved that issue with
an electronic ignition conversion.

I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use.

There is a germ of truth here. We are talking about something that was
designed when gas cost 50 cents a gallon! There are certainly more
efficient generators around, but they are not cheap and you are unlikely to
find them at Home Depot. Fuel cost is important (OK, damn important), but
it is not the only cost of running a generator..

I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage

Running at 1800 RPM (vs 3600 RPM) drastically lowers the pumping loss of the
engione (increasing efficiency), greatly decreases noise, and reduces wear.

Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if properly cared for,

"Better" (commercial quality) engines are expensive and are not found on
consumer-grade generators. I expect my Onan to outlast me. I can't say that
about any other small engine I own.

and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

No, you can't throttle a conventional generator down to lower speed if you
want 60 HZ power. Running at 1800 RPM (vs 3600 RPM) drastically lowers the
pumping loss of the engione (increasing efficiency), greatly decreases
noise, and reduces wear. Yes, you could design your own generator with a
throttled-down 3600 RPM engine and a belt ratio to get the proper frequency,
but you would no longer get rated power from the engine.

Finally, these (Onan) generators are made for motorhome use. They must fit
into a minimum space, must have reliablility comparable with the vehicle's
engine, and must run with minimum noise and vibration. My neighbors don't
even know that I have a generator because they can't hear it!

Vaughn

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:15:55 -0700, "Richard W." wrote:

Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.


Seeing as we're talking about generators I have a question. I've read, from a few places' that small
generators should be "exercised" at least once a month. I'm assuming that means run with a load on
the generator. Why is that ??? Will the generator screw up if it isn't used frequently ???

Thanks
Brian

"Brian" wrote in message
...

Seeing as we're talking about generators I have a question. I've read,
from a few places' that small
generators should be "exercised" at least once a month. I'm assuming that
means run with a load on
the generator. Why is that ??? Will the generator screw up if it isn't
used frequently ???

There are two things that can happen to small generators if not occasionally
"exercised".

1) The generator can lose its residual magnetism. If this happens, it will
run but fail to produce power. There are various ways to "flash" the
generator field to remagnetize the generator.

2) Engines, particularly carbureted gasoline engines, can gum up, or parts
can rust up if they are allowed to sit for a long time.

Read your generator's manual. There are probably storage instructions.
Follow them!

Vaughn

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:56:52 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.

OLD? They made them for a long time. Don't know when they stopped. If age
bothers you, find a newer one, but some of the older wones were the best
IMO.

I don't mind old stuff, I have lots of it. In this case though, the
older versions are better in some ways, but not in the most important
ways IMO. It's much the same with my old tractors. They're good in
that they're relatively easy and cheap to repair, but in terms of
efficiency and productivity, their designs were outclassed decades
ago.

My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.

Sorry, I don't know anything about your neighbor so I can't argue about
that, but I can tell you about my Onan because I have known it since it was
new. It was perhaps 30 years old when I bought it from my employer. Except
for sparkplugs and batteries, it was all-orignal. Nothing had ever broken!
To be honest, after I bought it, I did have some problems with points.
Perhaps the problem was the mechanic (me). Anyhow, I solved that issue with
an electronic ignition conversion.

I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use.

There is a germ of truth here.
We are talking about something that was
designed when gas cost 50 cents a gallon! There are certainly more
efficient generators around, but they are not cheap and you are unlikely to
find them at Home Depot. Fuel cost is important (OK, damn important), but
it is not the only cost of running a generator..

Let's make a fair assumption that the flat-head penalty is 20%. For
every gallon of fuel burned per day, by using an overhead valve engine
one could save enough in a single year to buy an entire spare 13 hp
engine!

I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage

Running at 1800 RPM (vs 3600 RPM) drastically lowers the pumping loss of the
engione (increasing efficiency),

But they're *not* as efficient as OHV competitors. If they were, then
Onan wouldn't have switched to OHV.

greatly decreases noise, and reduces wear.

Somebody wrote that these engines can make 10,000 hours before the
first rebuild. But didn't Ulysses get more than that out of an EU
engine? Yes, the Onan can be rebuilt over and over, but what's the
point if that costs more in the end?

Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if properly cared for,

"Better" (commercial quality) engines are expensive

I didn't mean commercial quality, only anything with a cast iron bore
and a decent oil filter.

and are not found on
consumer-grade generators. I expect my Onan to outlast me. I can't say that
about any other small engine I own.

One can say the same about an old power drill for example. But it's
still more practical and cost-effective for most to buy a modern
drill.

and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

No, you can't throttle a conventional generator down to lower speed if you
want 60 HZ power.

True, but most of the DIYers here seem to be using belt-driven
arrangements. My own is overpowered (larger displacement considering
the output, just like the old Onans), and is throttled down to about
2000 RPM.

Running at 1800 RPM (vs 3600 RPM) drastically lowers the
pumping loss of the engione (increasing efficiency), greatly decreases
noise, and reduces wear. Yes, you could design your own generator with a
throttled-down 3600 RPM engine and a belt ratio to get the proper frequency,
but you would no longer get rated power from the engine.

Finally, these (Onan) generators are made for motorhome use. They must fit
into a minimum space, must have reliablility comparable with the vehicle's
engine, and must run with minimum noise and vibration. My neighbors don't
even know that I have a generator because they can't hear it!

Aren't the new Onan RV generators 3600 RPM? Then it seems that lower
RPM isn't the single secret to low noise. Anyway, if we're trading
anecdotes, my neighbor with the old Onans was impressed with the quiet
of my plain-jane Kohler in a simple enclosure. :-)

Wayne

wrote in message
...
my neighbor with the old Onans was impressed with the quiet
of my plain-jane Kohler in a simple enclosure. :-)

Nothing wrong with Kohler AFAIK. I just happen to be more familar with
Onans.

Vaughn

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:22 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's
list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was
a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
13hp, $180

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
Wayne

This is from a CL ad:

Model 6.5 nh-3cr. 6500 watts, 120-240 volts. 54.2-27.1 amps. Phase 1. Starts
dependably. Hear it run. Like new! Came out of wrecked motor home. New
plugs, wires, points, condensor, oil and filter, 30wt. non-detergent. New
fuel pump and air cleaner. Dimensions are 23" in Heighth, 32" in width", 20"
depth. Mounting plate is 19x19

All of this makes me wonder about maintenance. There seems to be a lot of
stuff there that I currently don't have to deal with. How often does the
oil need to be changed on these generators? Does the oil filter reduce the
frequency of oil changes or just improve the lubrication? Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:22 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's
list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was
a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
13hp, $180

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
Wayne

Neither of those engines will fit on a generator. You need an engine with
a
tapered shaft to replace the engine on a generator. Unless you have a belt
driven generator head. See ebay sale #110406409961 and look at the shaft.

Richard W.



A couple of years ago I was looking for a replacement generator engine. The
Honda GX270 was going for just under $700. A comparable Chinese engine was
selling for around $250, but I couldn't find any with a tapered shaft. It
sure seems like there is a market for a replacment generator engine that a
"standard" generator head would bolt right onto. Many times I've considered
replacing my "use only as a last resort" Tecumseh-powered generator with an
OHV engine but since then I've actually managed to get it running well. I
replaced the fixed idle mixture jet with an adjustable screw and
disconnected the crankcase breather and attached a primer tube and now it
starts with one pull! It's like a miracle. I've actually been using it on
a daily basis lately to run my well pump. I must give them credit for one
thing though: on a really cold day it would really warm you up yanking on
that rope trying to get it to start. I'd sometimes be so hot I'd have to
take my shirt off when it was 20 degrees.

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:22 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's
list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once
was
a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at
the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
13hp, $180

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
Wayne

Neither of those engines will fit on a generator. You need an engine with
a
tapered shaft to replace the engine on a generator. Unless you have a
belt
driven generator head. See ebay sale #110406409961 and look at the shaft.

Richard W.



A couple of years ago I was looking for a replacement generator engine.
The
Honda GX270 was going for just under $700. A comparable Chinese engine
was
selling for around $250, but I couldn't find any with a tapered shaft. It
sure seems like there is a market for a replacment generator engine that a
"standard" generator head would bolt right onto. Many times I've
considered
replacing my "use only as a last resort" Tecumseh-powered generator with
an
OHV engine but since then I've actually managed to get it running well. I
replaced the fixed idle mixture jet with an adjustable screw and
disconnected the crankcase breather and attached a primer tube and now it
starts with one pull! It's like a miracle. I've actually been using it
on
a daily basis lately to run my well pump. I must give them credit for one
thing though: on a really cold day it would really warm you up yanking on
that rope trying to get it to start. I'd sometimes be so hot I'd have to
take my shirt off when it was 20 degrees.



Often time you have to special order an engine with the taper shaft because
they are a specialty item that doesn't move very fast. There are so new
engines on Ebay under generator parts. I have seen several 10 HP Tecumseh
engines there. They also have a 6 HP OHV that I have been wanting to get
before they are gone forever.

Richard W.

Brian wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:15:55 -0700, "Richard W." wrote:

Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.
FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once was a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn
I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.


Seeing as we're talking about generators I have a question. I've read, from a few places' that small
generators should be "exercised" at least once a month. I'm assuming that means run with a load on
the generator. Why is that ??? Will the generator screw up if it isn't used frequently ???

Thanks
Brian

All the stationary backup generators I've installed were
setup to crank and run for 15 minutes once a week. The
newer Generac models run at half speed during test mode
in order to make less noise. The weekly test keeps the
generator ready for use at a moments notice. The homeowner
can do a load test, if they desire, by turning off the
main feed to the circuits covered by the genset. As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered. One good
reason for a monthly test is it will cook or blow out any
critters that decide to take up residence. A monthly test
will also keep the corrosion down by splashing oil around
the crankcase and boiling away any water that may have
condensed on internal and external surfaces. Getting the
generator portion warm will also drive out any moisture
that may have collected. You could use an electric heater
for a load since it would mimic the load bank that a genset
service company would use.

TDD

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...
Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

Most Onans that I have seen have the points box on the top of the engine.
Still not always convenient, but at least you don't need to dismantle the
engine. The manual for my CCK (no oil filter) specifies 100 hours. That
might sound like a lot, but it would be the same as several thousand miles
in an auto engine.

Vaughn

In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:

This is from a CL ad:

Model 6.5 nh-3cr. 6500 watts, 120-240 volts. 54.2-27.1 amps. Phase 1. Starts
dependably. Hear it run. Like new! Came out of wrecked motor home. New
plugs, wires, points, condensor, oil and filter, 30wt. non-detergent. New
fuel pump and air cleaner. Dimensions are 23" in Heighth, 32" in width", 20"
depth. Mounting plate is 19x19

All of this makes me wonder about maintenance. There seems to be a lot of
stuff there that I currently don't have to deal with. How often does the
oil need to be changed on these generators? Does the oil filter reduce the
frequency of oil changes or just improve the lubrication? Does the flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

Maintainance is the key to longevity on ANY Mechanical Device. Having a
Pressure Lubeoil and Filter System increases the Oil change Period form
50-100 Hours, to 200 Hours, or once a Year, which ever comes first, on
the Onan Engines, and MOST other 4 Cycle Gasoline Fueled ICE's.
Converting to Dry Gas Fuel can increase that to maybe 300 Hours, BUT,
remember that LubeOil, is the cheapest Insurance MOney can Buy....
Very Few of the classic Opposed Twin Onans are Magneto Ignition, so in
most cases, the Points are located on the top of the Engine near the
Carb. This class of Onan Gensets are KNOWN for their reliability, and
long Lifetimes, (10K Operational Hours) IF the OEM Periodic Maintainance
is done. The problems come when some owners just think they can store
them away, for years, sometimes, and then drag them out, blow the dust
off, and expect them to start and run, 24/7/Days or Weeks with no
issues.... That expectation, is just plain stupid, for ANY ICE, not
just Onans. If you can't, or don't, do the Periodic Maintainance, don't
expect to have power, when the Grid goes down..... and that classes you
as a "FlatLander".... "City Boy" for you Red Neck Types....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered.

Contrary to popular belief, Diesel Fuel does NOT require ANY
Stabilizer... as long as it is Clean, in the first place, and
not sucking water into it, in the second place. Water will be taken out
of the fuel, by the Primary and Secondary Fuel Filters. So as long as it
(water) is minimal, it goes away, when you change the Filters.

In article ,
z wrote:

Actually some new people bought the old foster place down the road from
me a few miles and I got the trust fund impression. We were talking
about home power at a BBQ and they were telling me how they had big plans
for putting in wind power etc.

For one thing the spot they bought is terrible for wind power but that
didn't seem to bother them. Like me they'd need to send the power at
least 3/4 a mile to get any wind. And I was reminding them of 140 MPH
winds we get from time to time and how to make a tower/turbine that can
withstand that. And they've got no road or access to the only place on
their property to do wind, and its on steep hill with timber .. its a big
****ing job in anycase.

No problem they were like 'well we can get these wind turbines for only
30,000 so we're thinking about putting two in to see how they go.

Oh.. right. OK then if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money on
it than I guess it can be made to work. The thing they COULD do on that
place is hydro so I was talking with them about that. The guy was
convinced he wanted to use an archemedes screw with a concrete shoot of
some kind with some home made rare earth magnets he had to generate
power. We were all pretty drunk by that time so I'm going to have to
talk with them more seriously at some point.

But the 30k turbines cracked me up. Yeah I could buy a russian nuclear
sub and put it in the creek and run off the power plant in that thing too
if I had a bazzillion dollars to spend on it.

So I think thats what got me in the trust fund mood -- I get so tired of
people telling me 'just buy a bunch of solar panels' and the like

Sorry about that I'm sure you understand

-z

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright, BUT never have had any Grease under
their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't ever do
"Business " with them.....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

You wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

As for
small portable generators, you always use fuel stabilizer/
treatment if it's a gasoline or diesel powered.

Contrary to popular belief, Diesel Fuel does NOT require ANY
Stabilizer... as long as it is Clean, in the first place, and
not sucking water into it, in the second place. Water will be taken out
of the fuel, by the Primary and Secondary Fuel Filters. So as long as it
(water) is minimal, it goes away, when you change the Filters.

Since I'm not the world's leading expert on the subject,
I have to ask those who are. Like these:

http://tinyurl.com/lm7xl2

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_fuel_storage.html

http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html

Granted, many sources are biased toward their own products
but looking through multiple sources one can ferret out the
real information they all have in common.

TDD

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:56:17 -0800, Bruce in alaska
wrote:

In article ,
z wrote:

Actually some new people bought the old foster place down the road from
me a few miles and I got the trust fund impression. We were talking
about home power at a BBQ and they were telling me how they had big plans
for putting in wind power etc.

For one thing the spot they bought is terrible for wind power but that
didn't seem to bother them. Like me they'd need to send the power at
least 3/4 a mile to get any wind. And I was reminding them of 140 MPH
winds we get from time to time and how to make a tower/turbine that can
withstand that. And they've got no road or access to the only place on
their property to do wind, and its on steep hill with timber .. its a big
****ing job in anycase.

No problem they were like 'well we can get these wind turbines for only
30,000 so we're thinking about putting two in to see how they go.

Oh.. right. OK then if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money on
it than I guess it can be made to work. The thing they COULD do on that
place is hydro so I was talking with them about that. The guy was
convinced he wanted to use an archemedes screw with a concrete shoot of
some kind with some home made rare earth magnets he had to generate
power. We were all pretty drunk by that time so I'm going to have to
talk with them more seriously at some point.

But the 30k turbines cracked me up. Yeah I could buy a russian nuclear
sub and put it in the creek and run off the power plant in that thing too
if I had a bazzillion dollars to spend on it.

So I think thats what got me in the trust fund mood -- I get so tired of
people telling me 'just buy a bunch of solar panels' and the like

It's all relative. Somebody asked me once why I didn't just pave the 6
miles of road leading to my place. Either he thought that paving was
cheap, or that somebody driving a 10 year old car is secretly made of
money. :-) Still, we might as well be Rockefellers compared to some
folks who don't know if their retirement check or whatever will
stretch to the end of the month.

Sorry about that I'm sure you understand

-z

Yep, Flatlanders for sure... You can pick them out of any crowd,
anywhere... First Clue.... More Money, than Brains..... Second Clue,
They use all the Buzzwords, alright,

It doesn't necessarily take long, but I'm careful about categorizing
people until I get to know them. That comes partly from meeting some
seemingly non-technical types who proved to be way smart already, or
could pick up new and/or difficult stuff quickly. I can also think of
a couple who weren't normally hands-on types, but were brilliant at
managing others, and had the proven success to show for it. If one is
really good at his trade, or better yet at lots of trades, then they
can get paid handsomely by those really smart and successful people to
do the dirty work. Which is exactly what I'd do if I was smart enough
to be able to afford it.

BUT never have had any Grease under
their Manicured Fingernails..... Nice bunch of folks, but don't ever do
"Business " with them.....

I'd never rate people one way or another by their fingernails. I wear
gloves as much as possible, and only get grease stuck under my nails
when it's unavoidable. Conversely, I know quite a few whose inability
to keep their nails, or anything else they wear or own clean, is
indicative of their generally sloppy approach to every task or
subject. I saw a perfect example of that just the other day. If dirty
nails were a useful barometer of anything good, that guy would be the
second coming. Instead, he was an outstanding menace to himself and
any others or equipment within his reach. The obvious question was how
the hell he'd managed to live so long, and the answer from someone who
knows him was that he'd come close to killing himself (again) only a
couple months ago.

Wayne

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Richard W." wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:22 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"Ulysses" wrote in message
...


Wow, thanks very much for the specific information. I'm on craig's
list
now
and they seem to start out at about $400.

FYI, my home standby generator is a 70's- era Onan 4CCK that once
was
a
standby generator for a traffic signal. They are pretty simple to
work
on,
parts and information are still generally available, and the gang at
the
Onan board at Smokstak.com (including Bruce) gives amazing support.

Vaughn

I'm not up on the Onan model numbers, but if anyone is talking about
the old opposed-twin flat heads for a backup generator, I wouldn't
think those would be a great choice except for low-use applications.
My neighbor was fond of them because he could get them for peanuts,
which was a good thing because he seemed to have gone through quite a
few. They didn't seem especially reliable, quiet, or fuel efficient.
I'd think that the fuel inefficiency alone of flat-heads makes them
uneconomical for extended use. I'm not even sure that the 1800 RPM is
any great advantage. Better 3600 RPM engines last a long time if
properly cared for, and one can throttle most engines down to a lower
speed if planned for.

It seems like there are lots of decent small engines available these
days, some so cheap that even the most budget-conscious could afford
to have a complete spare on hand.

9hp, $150


http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
13hp, $180


http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...atname=engines
Wayne

Neither of those engines will fit on a generator. You need an engine
with
a
tapered shaft to replace the engine on a generator. Unless you have a
belt
driven generator head. See ebay sale #110406409961 and look at the
shaft.

Richard W.



A couple of years ago I was looking for a replacement generator engine.
The
Honda GX270 was going for just under $700. A comparable Chinese engine
was
selling for around $250, but I couldn't find any with a tapered shaft.
It
sure seems like there is a market for a replacment generator engine that
a
"standard" generator head would bolt right onto. Many times I've
considered
replacing my "use only as a last resort" Tecumseh-powered generator with
an
OHV engine but since then I've actually managed to get it running well.
I
replaced the fixed idle mixture jet with an adjustable screw and
disconnected the crankcase breather and attached a primer tube and now
it
starts with one pull! It's like a miracle. I've actually been using it
on
a daily basis lately to run my well pump. I must give them credit for
one
thing though: on a really cold day it would really warm you up yanking
on
that rope trying to get it to start. I'd sometimes be so hot I'd have
to
take my shirt off when it was 20 degrees.



Often time you have to special order an engine with the taper shaft
because
they are a specialty item that doesn't move very fast. There are so new
engines on Ebay under generator parts. I have seen several 10 HP Tecumseh
engines there. They also have a 6 HP OHV that I have been wanting to get
before they are gone forever.

Richard W.


I have one of the Harbor Freight 6.5 HP OHV engines that are currently
selling for $110. I got mine for $99 about a year ago. It's a straight
3/4" keyed shaft so it's good for belt-drive etc. The only problem I've had
is they have some kind of fuel vapor device on it that gets clogged and has
to be blown out or the engine will die from no air. I rigged mine with an
external gas tank so no more problem. In any case I think it's a good
engine and would rather have it than my Honda GC135.

"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:

This is from a CL ad:

Model 6.5 nh-3cr. 6500 watts, 120-240 volts. 54.2-27.1 amps. Phase 1.
Starts
dependably. Hear it run. Like new! Came out of wrecked motor home. New
plugs, wires, points, condensor, oil and filter, 30wt. non-detergent.
New
fuel pump and air cleaner. Dimensions are 23" in Heighth, 32" in width",
20"
depth. Mounting plate is 19x19

All of this makes me wonder about maintenance. There seems to be a lot
of
stuff there that I currently don't have to deal with. How often does
the
oil need to be changed on these generators? Does the oil filter reduce
the
frequency of oil changes or just improve the lubrication? Does the
flywheel
need to be removed to adjust the points or are they easy to get to?

Maintainance is the key to longevity on ANY Mechanical Device. Having a
Pressure Lubeoil and Filter System increases the Oil change Period form
50-100 Hours, to 200 Hours, or once a Year, which ever comes first, on
the Onan Engines, and MOST other 4 Cycle Gasoline Fueled ICE's.
Converting to Dry Gas Fuel can increase that to maybe 300 Hours, BUT,
remember that LubeOil, is the cheapest Insurance MOney can Buy....
Very Few of the classic Opposed Twin Onans are Magneto Ignition, so in
most cases, the Points are located on the top of the Engine near the
Carb. This class of Onan Gensets are KNOWN for their reliability, and
long Lifetimes, (10K Operational Hours) IF the OEM Periodic Maintainance
is done. The problems come when some owners just think they can store
them away, for years, sometimes, and then drag them out, blow the dust
off, and expect them to start and run, 24/7/Days or Weeks with no
issues.... That expectation, is just plain stupid, for ANY ICE, not
just Onans. If you can't, or don't, do the Periodic Maintainance, don't
expect to have power, when the Grid goes down..... and that classes you
as a "FlatLander".... "City Boy" for you Red Neck Types....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

It sounds to me like the Onans have many advantages and few disadvantages.
I may be needing something in the 5K range in the near future so thanks for
all the info.