Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

"SBH" wrote in message
...
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was
a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when
we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which
doesn't appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space,
It's puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

It depends upon where you are running to and from. The wall cavity is
probably hollow, except for insulation. There is probably a double 2x4 at
the top of the wall and a plate at the bottom

On Jun 9, 7:03*pm, "SBH" wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

What kind of cable are you talking about?

Is the whole wall brick?

Andy

"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 7:03 pm, "SBH" wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was
a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which
doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

What kind of cable are you talking about?

Is the whole wall brick?

Andy

Television cable. No bricks.

On Jun 10, 7:27*am, "SBH" wrote:
"WhiteTea77581" wrote in message

...
On Jun 9, 7:03 pm, "SBH" wrote:

Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was
a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which
doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

What kind of cable are you talking about?

Is the whole wall brick?

Andy

Television cable. No bricks.

Insulation is the usual problem in an outside wall. Depending on the
type, it can make it difficult or impossible

SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you

Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you

Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

You'll also need cable (I can't get the proper name off the tip of my
tongue) "whatevers". You thread the cable through and then push it into the
opening on the ouside of the house. Serves to seal the opening and secure
the cable to the house.
MLD

On Jun 9, 9:03*pm, "SBH" wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

I guess it depends on what you mean by "through" the wall.

"Through the wall" could mean bringing the wire from outside the
bungalow into the room or "through the wall" could mean from one
location inside the bungalow to another location inside the bungalow.

Please clarify.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 9:03 pm, "SBH" wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was
a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which
doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

I guess it depends on what you mean by "through" the wall.

"Through the wall" could mean bringing the wire from outside the
bungalow into the room or "through the wall" could mean from one
location inside the bungalow to another location inside the bungalow.

Please clarify.


Thanks for the reminder. After reading the replies, I see what you mean.

My apologies for the lack of details.

I want to run/add a television cable from the already existing terminal
located in the basement, up through the floor to the kitchen inside the
exterior wall. The same as you would for any other type of outlet (phone,
switch, etc.) through the floor and inside an interior wall such as a
bedroom. Not running a cable from the outside to inside, but all inside. I
have run cables, phone lines, electrical wiring, etc. through many other
walls in this house as well as others, but never inside a wall which is the
exterior wall of a house. Therefore, I have no idea if there's much of a
difference. Viewing the joists in the basement it just seems a bit difficult
to gain access. It appears the thickness of the wall lies on the foundation
and makes it difficult to snake any type of wiring.

Thanks again.

"SBH" wrote in message
...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 9:03 pm, "SBH" wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but
how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It
was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which
doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

I guess it depends on what you mean by "through" the wall.

"Through the wall" could mean bringing the wire from outside the
bungalow into the room or "through the wall" could mean from one
location inside the bungalow to another location inside the bungalow.

Please clarify.


Thanks for the reminder. After reading the replies, I see what you mean.

My apologies for the lack of details.

I want to run/add a television cable from the already existing terminal
located in the basement, up through the floor to the kitchen inside the
exterior wall. The same as you would for any other type of outlet (phone,
switch, etc.) through the floor and inside an interior wall such as a
bedroom. Not running a cable from the outside to inside, but all inside.
I have run cables, phone lines, electrical wiring, etc. through many other
walls in this house as well as others, but never inside a wall which is
the exterior wall of a house. Therefore, I have no idea if there's much of
a difference. Viewing the joists in the basement it just seems a bit
difficult to gain access. It appears the thickness of the wall lies on the
foundation and makes it difficult to snake any type of wiring.

Thanks again.

It can be difficult or impossible to drill up into an exterior wall cavity
from below if the foundation is too thick. If you can see any other cables
drilled up from below, in that same area, you can use their location as a
guide. You don't want to come up through the floor or through the siding

On Jun 10, 10:56*am, "MLD" wrote:
snip

You'll also need cable (I can't get the proper name off the tip of my
tongue) "whatevers". You thread the cable through and then push *it into the
opening on the ouside of the house. *Serves to seal the opening and secure
the cable to the house.
MLD



Grommets? Most of the cable installers around here just use a tube of
caulk.

Red

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:51:14 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you

Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

No, you need an "installer bit". Drill the hole, tie the cable on,
and pull it back through. Then seal the hole with caulk.

"SBH" wrote in message
...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 9:03 pm, "SBH" wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but
how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It
was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which
doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

I guess it depends on what you mean by "through" the wall.

"Through the wall" could mean bringing the wire from outside the
bungalow into the room or "through the wall" could mean from one
location inside the bungalow to another location inside the bungalow.

Please clarify.


Thanks for the reminder. After reading the replies, I see what you mean.

My apologies for the lack of details.

I want to run/add a television cable from the already existing terminal
located in the basement, up through the floor to the kitchen inside the
exterior wall. The same as you would for any other type of outlet (phone,
switch, etc.) through the floor and inside an interior wall such as a
bedroom. Not running a cable from the outside to inside, but all inside.
I have run cables, phone lines, electrical wiring, etc. through many other
walls in this house as well as others, but never inside a wall which is
the exterior wall of a house. Therefore, I have no idea if there's much of
a difference. Viewing the joists in the basement it just seems a bit
difficult to gain access. It appears the thickness of the wall lies on the
foundation and makes it difficult to snake any type of wiring.

Thanks again.
Going up through an outside wall is a challenge. A way that I ended up doing
was to run a cable from the basement to the attic using the space around the
stack pipe as the access to the attic. From there located where I wanted to
come down through the wall, using the wires that fed an electrical outlet
box as the guide. In your case, since it's an outside wall I would think
that the easiest solution would be to come into the room from the outside.
MLD

I'm guessing you have at least the height of the floor joists along the ext
wall in the basement to "work" and can see up to the bottom of the floor.
Do you just need to go a foot or two up from the floor into the kitchen wall
where a "normal" tv cable outlet would be?
Otherwise, if you're going up to above "counter height" for a TV/monitor
(say, mounted on a cabinet etc) you would run into fireblocking.
Also, if the home has a vapor barrier on the exterior walls, you should try
to avoid damaging it and the insulation.

If the desired location is standard (just about 16" above the kitchen
floor), what I've done is mark the location in the kitchen (after using a
stud finder) ..find the corresponding space between the basement studs and
ensure theres nothing there a drill bit will hit, then cut a hole in the
kitchenwall the size of a standard "EZ" box.

Then (I have two installer's drill bits..one is 3' long and the other is 6'
long. They are a long flexible shaft with a pointed "spade" type bit on the
end)
I'd take the 3 footer, make a small hole in the vapor barrier and carefully
feed the drillbit DOWN (by hand) into the wall to the bottom plate thru the
hole you' ve cut. Measure along the shaft to make sure you're "resting" on
the plate and not on something else that may be in the wall. The drill-end
of the bit would be sticking out of the hole, against the sheetrock at about
20-30 degrees due to its natural curve and the 'bit-end' should be almost
vertical and perpendicular to/against the plate. Apply drill to bit and
drill the hole while a 'helper' keeps an eye out for the bit in the
basement.

Going in this way (down) keeps the damage to the vapor barrier/insulation
to a minimum. Once the hole is drilled, connect a thin piece of cord to the
drillbit (it has a hole thru it just for that purpose) and pull the cord/
wire back up thru the hole and into the kitchen. You may be able to rent
such a bit or buy one at HD/Lowes etc.

I want to run/add a television cable from the already existing terminal
located in the basement, up through the floor to the kitchen inside the
exterior wall. The same as you would for any other type of outlet (phone,
switch, etc.) through the floor and inside an interior wall such as a
bedroom. Not running a cable from the outside to inside, but all inside.
I have run cables, phone lines, electrical wiring, etc. through many
other walls in this house as well as others, but never inside a wall
which is the exterior wall of a house. Therefore, I have no idea if
there's much of a difference.

wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:51:14 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you
Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

No, you need an "installer bit". Drill the hole, tie the cable on,
and pull it back through. Then seal the hole with caulk.

Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly way
to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it looks
like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed to the
weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12:28 PM UTC-4, aemeijers wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:51:14 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you
Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

No, you need an "installer bit". Drill the hole, tie the cable on,
and pull it back through. Then seal the hole with caulk.

Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly way
to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it looks
like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed to the
weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his problem.

On 1/26/2014 6:52 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12:28 PM UTC-4, aemeijers wrote:

Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly way
to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it looks
like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed to the
weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his problem.


I realize you hillbillies are sensitive. Maybe you could read the rest
of the thread 4 1/2 years ago.

On 01/26/2014 06:52 AM, wrote:
X

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his problem.




What's really hilarious...on another group some idiot replied to a five
year old post and the OP actually responded and said something like,
"problem solved". I think it was the antique radio group or something
like that.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 04:52:00 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12:28 PM UTC-4, aemeijers wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:51:14 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you
Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

No, you need an "installer bit". Drill the hole, tie the cable on,
and pull it back through. Then seal the hole with caulk.

Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly way
to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it looks
like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed to the
weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his problem.

aemeijers has nothing to prove to a nooble like you. He was a poster
par excellence, and I hope wherever he is, he's posting happiily.

wrote:
Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly
way to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it
looks like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed
to the weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his
problem.

By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running cable.

On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running cable.





Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the house,
then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the cold
air return.

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the cold
air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable. The right
way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast even resists letting
the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with them even to run wires into holes
I had already drilled and left wire pulling string in.

On Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:03:33 PM UTC-5, SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

have you ever heard of a drill?

On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the cold
air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable. The right
way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast even resists letting
the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with them even to run wires into holes
I had already drilled and left wire pulling string in.





I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about data.

FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using a
sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage between the
two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

On 01/26/2014 11:24 AM, Daring Dufas: Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare wrote:
On Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:03:33 PM UTC-5, SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this but how
difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a bungalow? It was a
small addition to the kitchen on the back of the house (was there when we
purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and above it is an attic which doesn't
appear to have an access, not even through the main attic space, It's
puzzling as to how I will get in there.

I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions are
appreciated.

Thank you

have you ever heard of a drill?




That was posted in 2009 in case you did not notice.

I don't think they had drills back then.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 04:52:00 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12:28 PM UTC-4, aemeijers wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:51:14 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

SBH wrote:
Though, I haven't taken a good look yet to the possibility of this
but how difficult is it to run cable through an outside wall on a
bungalow? It was a small addition to the kitchen on the back of the
house (was there when we purchased). Below it is a crawlspace and
above it is an attic which doesn't appear to have an access, not even
through the main attic space, It's puzzling as to how I will get in
there.
I know it's difficult to answer without seeing, but all suggestions
are appreciated.

Thank you
Trivial. You need a long ( 1 foot) 1/2" bit, a coat-hanger, and a pair of
pliers.

No, you need an "installer bit". Drill the hole, tie the cable on,
and pull it back through. Then seal the hole with caulk.

Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly way
to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it looks
like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed to the
weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his problem.
And done "properly" there is no connection outside the house or
exposed. When I bought my house the telephone cable to the upstairs
was run on the outside surface of the brick lower storey, and in
through the aluminum siding upper floor walls. After 40 years I
started getting noise on the line so I disconnected it and now have
only cordless phones on the upper floor.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:43:23 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

wrote:
Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly
way to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it
looks like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed
to the weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his
problem.

By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running cable.

Still a heck of a lot better than the way the Zambian Post Office
(operator of the phone system in the former British colony of Northern
Rhodesia) installed the phone cable into a friend's house - through
the keyhole of the front door. They were given the key to the side
door to get in so "ASS U ME d" the front door was not being used - - -
- - -.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:57:35 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running cable.





Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the house,
then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the cold
air return.
Which would require "plenum rated" cable, which he likely did not
carry on the truck, while he had lots of "outdoor rated" cable.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:36:39 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the cold
air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable. The right
way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast even resists letting
the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with them even to run wires into holes
I had already drilled and left wire pulling string in.





I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about data.

FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using a
sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage between the
two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.
My 40 year old house is done the same way - as are most houses built
since then.

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:43:23 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

wrote:
Running coax on outside of house and through wall is the hillbilly
way to do it. Fast and cheap, which is why it is so popular, but it
looks like crap. And the more coax and connectors you have exposed
to the weather, the quicker it fails.

--
aem sends...

Then by all means, provide your non-"hillbilly" solution to his
problem.

By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.

Still a heck of a lot better than the way the Zambian Post Office
(operator of the phone system in the former British colony of Northern
Rhodesia) installed the phone cable into a friend's house - through
the keyhole of the front door. They were given the key to the side
door to get in so "ASS U ME d" the front door was not being used - - -
- - -.

WOW!

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable.
The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast
even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with
them even to run wires into holes I had already drilled and left
wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using a
sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage between
the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be "plenum" rated. I
believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable to carry fire or produce
poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not to suggest that the wood would not do
the same.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable.
The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast
even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with
them even to run wires into holes I had already drilled and left
wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using a
sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage between
the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be "plenum" rated. I
believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable to carry fire or produce
poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not to suggest that the wood would not do
the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.

Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of
running cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special
cable. The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the
cable. Comcast even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I
had to argue with them even to run wires into holes I had already
drilled and left wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using
a sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage
between the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be
"plenum" rated. I believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable
to carry fire or produce poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not
to suggest that the wood would not do the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenum_cable

Cables like twisted-pair, coaxial, HDMI, and DVI are available in both plenum
and riser versions. The cable cost is often significantly higher than
general-use cable, due to the special restricted-use flame retardant materials.

"Bob F" wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of
running cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special
cable. The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the
cable. Comcast even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I
had to argue with them even to run wires into holes I had already
drilled and left wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using
a sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage
between the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be
"plenum" rated. I believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable
to carry fire or produce poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not
to suggest that the wood would not do the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenum_cable

Cables like twisted-pair, coaxial, HDMI, and DVI are available in both plenum
and riser versions. The cable cost is often significantly higher than
general-use cable, due to the special restricted-use flame retardant materials.

I once worked for a formally Fortune 500 company that built 2 huge data
centers, one is the US and another overseas as a disaster recovery site.
The entire IT department had spent years preparing for the transition from
a mainframe environment to a client-server environment. Every business
unit, worldwide, had a scheduled date when they would transition. It was a
well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row global project plan.

Two weeks before the start of the transition, it was discovered that every
cable that had been neatly run, labeled, and bundled was not plenum rated
and could not be used under the data centers' raised floors. The company
tried to fight the ruling but apparently it would been a longer, more
expensive delay to fight (and maybe not win) than to re-cable both data
centers.

The project was delayed, at considerable cost, because of the multitude of
vendors that were involved, both as part of the project itself and as
customers and suppliers of the company.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 00:05:41 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

"Bob F" wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of
running cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special
cable. The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the
cable. Comcast even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I
had to argue with them even to run wires into holes I had already
drilled and left wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using
a sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage
between the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be
"plenum" rated. I believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable
to carry fire or produce poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not
to suggest that the wood would not do the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenum_cable

Cables like twisted-pair, coaxial, HDMI, and DVI are available in both plenum
and riser versions. The cable cost is often significantly higher than
general-use cable, due to the special restricted-use flame retardant materials.

I once worked for a formally Fortune 500 company that built 2 huge data
centers, one is the US and another overseas as a disaster recovery site.
The entire IT department had spent years preparing for the transition from
a mainframe environment to a client-server environment. Every business
unit, worldwide, had a scheduled date when they would transition. It was a
well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row global project plan.

Two weeks before the start of the transition, it was discovered that every
cable that had been neatly run, labeled, and bundled was not plenum rated
and could not be used under the data centers' raised floors. The company
tried to fight the ruling but apparently it would been a longer, more
expensive delay to fight (and maybe not win) than to re-cable both data
centers.

The project was delayed, at considerable cost, because of the multitude of
vendors that were involved, both as part of the project itself and as
customers and suppliers of the company.

I guess it wasn't so "well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row"
operation. This stuff should have been specified *long* before the
construction began. If it was missed then, any project engineer worth
his paycheck should have thrown a flag as soon as they saw the cable
being placed under the floor. Even one of the "lowly" installers
should have seen that it was a cluster*.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 17:03:40 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable.
The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast
even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with
them even to run wires into holes I had already drilled and left
wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using a
sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage between
the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be "plenum" rated. I
believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable to carry fire or produce
poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not to suggest that the wood would not do
the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.
Cat f networking cable is available both ways, so is co-ax. Plenum
rated is generally 50% more expensive at minimum.

wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 00:05:41 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

"Bob F" wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of
running cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special
cable. The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the
cable. Comcast even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I
had to argue with them even to run wires into holes I had already
drilled and left wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using
a sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage
between the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be
"plenum" rated. I believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable
to carry fire or produce poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not
to suggest that the wood would not do the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenum_cable

Cables like twisted-pair, coaxial, HDMI, and DVI are available in both plenum
and riser versions. The cable cost is often significantly higher than
general-use cable, due to the special restricted-use flame retardant materials.

I once worked for a formally Fortune 500 company that built 2 huge data
centers, one is the US and another overseas as a disaster recovery site.
The entire IT department had spent years preparing for the transition from
a mainframe environment to a client-server environment. Every business
unit, worldwide, had a scheduled date when they would transition. It was a
well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row global project plan.

Two weeks before the start of the transition, it was discovered that every
cable that had been neatly run, labeled, and bundled was not plenum rated
and could not be used under the data centers' raised floors. The company
tried to fight the ruling but apparently it would been a longer, more
expensive delay to fight (and maybe not win) than to re-cable both data
centers.

The project was delayed, at considerable cost, because of the multitude of
vendors that were involved, both as part of the project itself and as
customers and suppliers of the company.

I guess it wasn't so "well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row"
operation. This stuff should have been specified *long* before the
construction began. If it was missed then, any project engineer worth
his paycheck should have thrown a flag as soon as they saw the cable
being placed under the floor. Even one of the "lowly" installers
should have seen that it was a cluster*.

This issue was that there was, and seems to be still be, some question as
to whether a raised floor in a computer room is actually a "plenum". Yes,
it is used to disperse conditioned air within the computer room but it's
not used as a plenum for any other conditioned space.

See here, posted in 2012...

http://www.totalsitesolutions.com/ca...raised-floors/

What was spec'd was thought to be compliant based on their interpretation
of the situation.

And while I did not read the following 57 page document in it's entirety,
it appears to state that some of the earlier requirements were open to
misinterpretation, both by designers and by inspectors.

http://www.bicsi.org/uploadedfiles/C...rical_Code.pdf

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 01:37:53 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 00:05:41 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

"Bob F" wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of
running cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special
cable. The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the
cable. Comcast even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I
had to argue with them even to run wires into holes I had already
drilled and left wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using
a sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage
between the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be
"plenum" rated. I believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable
to carry fire or produce poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not
to suggest that the wood would not do the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenum_cable

Cables like twisted-pair, coaxial, HDMI, and DVI are available in both plenum
and riser versions. The cable cost is often significantly higher than
general-use cable, due to the special restricted-use flame retardant materials.

I once worked for a formally Fortune 500 company that built 2 huge data
centers, one is the US and another overseas as a disaster recovery site.
The entire IT department had spent years preparing for the transition from
a mainframe environment to a client-server environment. Every business
unit, worldwide, had a scheduled date when they would transition. It was a
well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row global project plan.

Two weeks before the start of the transition, it was discovered that every
cable that had been neatly run, labeled, and bundled was not plenum rated
and could not be used under the data centers' raised floors. The company
tried to fight the ruling but apparently it would been a longer, more
expensive delay to fight (and maybe not win) than to re-cable both data
centers.

The project was delayed, at considerable cost, because of the multitude of
vendors that were involved, both as part of the project itself and as
customers and suppliers of the company.

I guess it wasn't so "well oiled, smooth running, all-ducks-in-a-row"
operation. This stuff should have been specified *long* before the
construction began. If it was missed then, any project engineer worth
his paycheck should have thrown a flag as soon as they saw the cable
being placed under the floor. Even one of the "lowly" installers
should have seen that it was a cluster*.

This issue was that there was, and seems to be still be, some question as
to whether a raised floor in a computer room is actually a "plenum". Yes,
it is used to disperse conditioned air within the computer room but it's
not used as a plenum for any other conditioned space.

It certainly *is*. There is much power down there and if there is a
fire, all the toxic crud *will* be blown into the room.

See here, posted in 2012...

http://www.totalsitesolutions.com/ca...raised-floors/

What was spec'd was thought to be compliant based on their interpretation
of the situation.

They should be fired.

And while I did not read the following 57 page document in it's entirety,
it appears to state that some of the earlier requirements were open to
misinterpretation, both by designers and by inspectors.

http://www.bicsi.org/uploadedfiles/C...rical_Code.pdf

Perhaps by those without a brain. This was a hard and fast rule 40
years ago, when I first started working on raised floors. We could
run test equipment power cords to outlets under the floor but that was
about it. Everything permanent had to be rated for plenum use. It's
quite obvious if you understand the issue (and it's not hard - fire +
toxic material = outcome, not good).

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 20:37:06 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 17:03:40 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:59:37 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 11:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
philo wrote:
On 01/26/2014 10:43 AM, Bob F wrote:
X
By hillbilly, he means "Comcast". That's the Comcast way of running
cable.



Actually, that's the way AT&T did mine...ran the wire outside the
house, then back in again.

He did not want to use my method of running the wire through the
cold air return.

Actually, that's probably not legal, at least without special cable.
The right way is to use wall and joist spaces for the cable. Comcast
even resists letting the homeowner do it right. I had to argue with
them even to run wires into holes I had already drilled and left
wire pulling string in.



I am sure it would be illegal with power wires. I don't know about
data.
FWIW: This is an ancient house and the cold air return is not using a
sheet metal duct...it's merely making use of the air passage between
the two by fours. (House so old, they really are 2" x 4" )

Once in the basement a sheet metal duct then goes to the furnace
in the usual way.

My understanding is that at the very least, the wire should be "plenum" rated. I
believe your wire in ducts would need to be unable to carry fire or produce
poisonous gasses in a fire situation. Not to suggest that the wood would not do
the same.

It may be just what my company bought, but I was told all ty-raps and
cable is plenum rated.

I am sure if that is wrong, I will be finding out about it.
Cat f networking cable is available both ways, so is co-ax. Plenum
rated is generally 50% more expensive at minimum.

+1

Probably +50% to professional installers. More like 3x to homeowners.
Still cheap, compared to the alternatives.