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#1
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empty electrical box behind drywall
While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I
might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? |
#2
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empty electrical box behind drywall
"sid" wrote in message
... While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? I'd just cover the empty box with a decorative switch plate- get one with no holes in it. |
#3
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empty electrical box behind drywall
In article , sid wrote:
While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? As long as there are no electrical splices in those boxes, there's no electrical code issue that I'm aware of. I do see one other problem, though, and that's finding the boxes later if you decide you want them. Why not either (a) cover the boxes with blank cover plates instead of tape & mud, or (b) just put receptacles there to begin with? You can never have too many... and what you propose seems like a lot of unnecessary work for very little discernable benefit. |
#4
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid wrote:
While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Nothing but the possibility of someone pushing something through the tape accidentally. s |
#5
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 15, 9:19*am, sid wrote:
While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? *Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. You dont want to "bury" the box. |
#6
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 15, 12:17*pm, RickH wrote:
On May 15, 9:19*am, sid wrote: While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? *Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. *You dont want to "bury" the box. Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative. Thanks |
#7
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid wrote:
On May 15, 12:17 pm, RickH wrote: On May 15, 9:19 am, sid wrote: While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. You dont want to "bury" the box. Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative. Thanks As long as there is space behind the drywall, trivial to use old-work boxes later, connected to wire pushed up from the existing box below. Note that if you do add this counter later, and add cabinets below, you will need to have the old outlets move forward and be accessible in the cabinets, and not bury them. Or if you will be covering the lower part of the wall, you can just make whatever holes you want- leave slack on the feeds to the low outlets, and if and when you add the counter and high outlets, you can just move the wire. In a basement, you are probably feeding from the top of the wall anyway, so you can just disconnect the wire down below, and pull it back up through the hole you cut for the old-work box. If the wire is behind drywall, no need for conduit. 3 or 4 different ways to handle the problem, and none of them difficult. No need to bury an empty box with a fragile paper cover. -- aem sends... |
#8
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid wrote:
On May 15, 12:17 pm, RickH wrote: On May 15, 9:19 am, sid wrote: While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. You dont want to "bury" the box. Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative. Thanks What i would do then in this case is just set the boxes flush with the stud, and drywall right over them. Be sure to map them accurately, and you have a plan. Then if you need them, punch them out by rotozipping on the inside of them and trimming with a util knife as needed. s |
#9
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid wrote:
On May 15, 12:17 pm, RickH wrote: On May 15, 9:19 am, sid wrote: While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. You dont want to "bury" the box. Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative. Assuming you're going to put the 12" high outlets in the same stud bays as the future 46" high ones, I'd just carefully plan the staple locations for the wires to the ones you put in -- in the future, you can simply cut a hole 46" high, cut the wire to the lower outlet and pull it into an "old work" box in the new hole. The bonus is that you'd be able to abandon and cover the lower outlets (if no energized wiring in them). I definitely wouldn't just tape over a hole -- I guarantee the first person to innocently lean against that wall will put their elbow in *just* the right place and poke through, leading to embarassment all around. Josh |
#10
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On Fri, 15 May 2009 19:47:10 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote: sid wrote: On May 15, 12:17 pm, RickH wrote: On May 15, 9:19 am, sid wrote: While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. You dont want to "bury" the box. Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative. Thanks What i would do then in this case is just set the boxes flush with the stud, and drywall right over them. Be sure to map them accurately, and you have a plan. Then if you need them, punch them out by rotozipping on the inside of them and trimming with a util knife as needed. s Not a good idea - the box ears are to be on the outside of the drywall for a reason |
#11
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empty electrical box behind drywall
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#12
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empty electrical box behind drywall
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#13
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empty electrical box behind drywall
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote: On Fri, 15 May 2009 19:47:10 -0500, Steve Barker wrote: What i would do then in this case is just set the boxes flush with the stud, and drywall right over them. Be sure to map them accurately, and you have a plan. Then if you need them, punch them out by rotozipping on the inside of them and trimming with a util knife as needed. Not a good idea - the box ears are to be on the outside of the drywall for a reason "New work" boxes don't *have* ears. BZZZZZZ! Wrong! New metal boxes have ears that can set back for wall thickness or removed completely. Your standard plastic nail in box usually has no ears. Metal boxes for conduit usually have no ears, like the standard "handy box" or the standard 4" or 4 11/16" square boxes. Metal switch boxes for Romex are going to have removable ears unless ordered without. The metal octagon box won't have ears. I used to work for an electrical supply house. I filled and shipped thousands of orders for electrical supplies. I didn't just push paper, I got my hands dirty handling tons of that stuff. TDD |
#14
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 16, 12:19*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , wrote: On Fri, 15 May 2009 19:47:10 -0500, Steve Barker wrote: What i would do then in this case is just set the boxes flush with the stud, and drywall right over them. *Be sure to map them accurately, and you have a plan. *Then if you need them, punch them out by rotozipping on the inside of them and trimming with a util knife as needed. Not a good idea - the box ears are to be on the outside of the drywall for a reason "New work" boxes don't *have* ears. BZZZZZZ! Wrong! New metal boxes have ears that can set back for wall thickness or removed completely. Your standard plastic nail in box usually has no ears. Metal boxes for conduit usually have no ears, like the standard "handy box" or the standard 4" or 4 11/16" square boxes. Metal switch boxes for Romex are going to have removable ears unless ordered without. The metal octagon box won't have ears. I used to work for an electrical supply house. I filled and shipped thousands of orders for electrical supplies. I didn't just push paper, I got my hands dirty handling tons of that stuff. TDD So, let's rephrase the problem the other poster pointed out with putting new in boxes now and going over them with drywall. When you later cut them out, the boxes will be set back ~1/2" from where they should be. If it were me, I'd just plan on using old work boxes later on. IMO, a more useful thing to do rather than bury hidden boxes would be to leave a pull string in the wall going from where you would later need to pull romex to the location of the proposed outlet. |
#15
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empty electrical box behind drywall
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#16
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 16, 12:14*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote: wrote: On May 16, 12:19 pm, The Daring Dufas wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , wrote: On Fri, 15 May 2009 19:47:10 -0500, Steve Barker wrote: What i would do then in this case is just set the boxes flush with the stud, and drywall right over them. *Be sure to map them accurately, and you have a plan. *Then if you need them, punch them out by rotozipping on the inside of them and trimming with a util knife as needed. Not a good idea - the box ears are to be on the outside of the drywall for a reason "New work" boxes don't *have* ears. BZZZZZZ! Wrong! New metal boxes have ears that can set back for wall thickness or removed completely. Your standard plastic nail in box usually has no ears. Metal boxes for conduit usually have no ears, like the standard "handy box" or the standard 4" or 4 11/16" square boxes. Metal switch boxes for Romex are going to have removable ears unless ordered without. The metal octagon box won't have ears. I used to work for an electrical supply house. I filled and shipped thousands of orders for electrical supplies. I didn't just push paper, I got my hands dirty handling tons of that stuff. TDD So, let's rephrase the problem the other poster pointed out with putting new in boxes now and going over them with drywall. * When you later cut them out, the boxes will be set back ~1/2" from where they should be. If it were me, I'd just plan on using old work boxes later on. * IMO, a more useful thing to do rather than bury hidden boxes would be to leave a pull string in the wall going from where you would later need to pull romex to the location of the proposed outlet. The sensible thing to do would be to go ahead and install the wiring and outlets and be done with it. The time to do the wiring is when you have open walls. The wiring and devices aren't that expensive and it's a lot easier and A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE to do it then. Of course, you may consider what your time is worth if you're doing it yourself. I can assure you that if you call in an electrician later, you'll spend a lot of money. TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. |
#17
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote: No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) |
#18
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 16, 12:58*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. *In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. *But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. *Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. *But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). *Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. *If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. |
#19
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empty electrical box behind drywall
RickH wrote:
On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. Here in the South East the majority of homes are wired with Romex. Some high end homes may be wired in conduit but it's rare. Most commercial buildings in this area are wired with conduit or MC cable but if it has wooden studs, it could be wired with Romex depending on the municipality or inspection department. Some of the wiring I've seen in the backwoods where there is no such thing as an electrical inspector is downright scary but the power company won't hook up to something that is obviously dangerous. TDD |
#20
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empty electrical box behind drywall
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#21
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empty electrical box behind drywall
RickH wrote:
On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. What a pain and waste of time. s |
#22
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 16, 2:42*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
RickH wrote: On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. *In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. *But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. *Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. *But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). *Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. *If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. *Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. *Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. *I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. *What a pain and waste of time. s- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". The electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else later. Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. Lastly the final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters and cabinets. Flooring is last of course. |
#23
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On Sat, 16 May 2009 13:02:30 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote: On May 16, 2:42Â*pm, Steve Barker wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. Â*In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. Â*But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Â*Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. Â*But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Â*Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. Â*If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Â*Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. Â*Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. Â*I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. Â*What a pain and waste of time. s- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". The electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else later. Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. Lastly the final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters and cabinets. Flooring is last of course. I can't immagine wiring a "stick-built" house with conduit. Concrete, I can see. Even steel-stud residential would be a complete pain. Generally plastic bushings are installed in the through-holes of the tin stud to keep the romex from shredding.. To use conduit EVERYTHING would have to come up or down throuh sills and plates - virtually nothing could traverse walls. Would easily DOUBLE the amount of wire required in the average home - particularly in 2 story or split level designs. In commercial with tin studs virtually everything is suspended ceiling and the conduit can be run anywhere without having to peirce walls etc. |
#25
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empty electrical box behind drywall
RickH wrote:
On May 16, 2:42 pm, Steve Barker wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. What a pain and waste of time. s- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". The electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else later. Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. Lastly the final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters and cabinets. Flooring is last of course. I'll bet it has something to do with theft of wire. We have a very big problem with metal theft around here. Copper and aluminum will disappear from a job if there is no security. I can go out to a home to service an AC unit and look next door at a vacant house and the AC unit will be stripped of copper and aluminum. It's not just Negroes doing it, some smart ass Honkeys from South Alabama were crawling under cars at large parking lots and stealing the catalytic converters. When my friend and I install HVAC systems at an unoccupied home, we won't set the condenser until the last minute. We have a very short stub for the line set outside which we seal and pressurize with nitrogen. It makes it easy to tell if a carpenter pokes a hole in our tubing. We can't even leave a whip on the service disconnect or some anus will come along and steal that too. TDD |
#26
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 16, 4:01*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 2:42 pm, Steve Barker wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. *In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire.. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. *But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. *Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. *But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). *Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. *If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. *Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. *Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. *I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. *What a pain and waste of time. s- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". *The electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else later. *Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. *Lastly the final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters and cabinets. *Flooring is last of course. I'll bet it has something to do with theft of wire. We have a very big problem with metal theft around here. Copper and aluminum will disappear from a job if there is no security. I can go out to a home to service an AC unit and look next door at a vacant house and the AC unit will be stripped of copper and aluminum. It's not just Negroes doing it, some smart ass Honkeys from South Alabama were crawling under cars at large parking lots and stealing the catalytic converters. When my friend and I install HVAC systems at an unoccupied home, we won't set the condenser until the last minute. We have a very short stub for the line set outside which we seal and pressurize with nitrogen. It makes it easy to tell if a carpenter pokes a hole in our tubing. We can't even leave a whip on the service disconnect or some anus will come along and steal that too. TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Location: Suburb west of Chicago (everything here is in conduit) From everyone’s input, probably the best solution would be to place the two receptacles one at 12" and another at 46" and finish them off. But run two separate conduit runs down to each box, then in the future if you wanted to abandon one of them just unhook or pull the wires out and cover it up ? Thanks |
#27
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid wrote:
On May 16, 4:01 pm, The Daring Dufas wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 2:42 pm, Steve Barker wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. What a pain and waste of time. s- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". The electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else later. Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. Lastly the final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters and cabinets. Flooring is last of course. I'll bet it has something to do with theft of wire. We have a very big problem with metal theft around here. Copper and aluminum will disappear from a job if there is no security. I can go out to a home to service an AC unit and look next door at a vacant house and the AC unit will be stripped of copper and aluminum. It's not just Negroes doing it, some smart ass Honkeys from South Alabama were crawling under cars at large parking lots and stealing the catalytic converters. When my friend and I install HVAC systems at an unoccupied home, we won't set the condenser until the last minute. We have a very short stub for the line set outside which we seal and pressurize with nitrogen. It makes it easy to tell if a carpenter pokes a hole in our tubing. We can't even leave a whip on the service disconnect or some anus will come along and steal that too. TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Location: Suburb west of Chicago (everything here is in conduit) From everyone’s input, probably the best solution would be to place the two receptacles one at 12" and another at 46" and finish them off. But run two separate conduit runs down to each box, then in the future if you wanted to abandon one of them just unhook or pull the wires out and cover it up ? Thanks Chicago? I'm sorry. But no need for double runs- you can just daisy-chain the boxes. If you decide to abandon the lower outlets later, rather than add rings to the front and make them available in the cabinets, just remove the outlets and the last 3 feet of wire, disconnecting them at the upper box. As long as no live wires end in a buried box, code does not care about abandoned conduit runs. Who knows- when you get to the cabinet stage, you may want to use the lower boxes as junctions to feed something else built into the lower cabinets. Or you may want to put a mini-fridge down there or something. You can never have too many outlets, as long as the circuit has the headroom. -- aem sends... |
#28
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 17, 9:59*am, aemeijers wrote:
sid wrote: On May 16, 4:01 pm, The Daring Dufas wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 2:42 pm, Steve Barker wrote: RickH wrote: On May 16, 12:58 pm, wrote: On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT), RickH wrote: No its conduit. *In fact new-home union electricians here insist that all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire. A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with drywall up. *But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden" blockades. *Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. *But if OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). *Also the OP will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall plate. *If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel cover before drywalling over it. Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit??? The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally) Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. *Even if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few builders (even if they could) use romex. There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro area. *Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. *I can't imagine trying to wire a house in conduit. *What a pain and waste of time. s- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". *The electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else later. *Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. *Lastly the final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters and cabinets. *Flooring is last of course. I'll bet it has something to do with theft of wire. We have a very big problem with metal theft around here. Copper and aluminum will disappear from a job if there is no security. I can go out to a home to service an AC unit and look next door at a vacant house and the AC unit will be stripped of copper and aluminum. It's not just Negroes doing it, some smart ass Honkeys from South Alabama were crawling under cars at large parking lots and stealing the catalytic converters. When my friend and I install HVAC systems at an unoccupied home, we won't set the condenser until the last minute. We have a very short stub for the line set outside which we seal and pressurize with nitrogen. It makes it easy to tell if a carpenter pokes a hole in our tubing. We can't even leave a whip on the service disconnect or some anus will come along and steal that too. TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Location: Suburb west of Chicago (everything here is in conduit) From everyone’s input, probably the best solution would be to place the two receptacles one at 12" and another at 46" and finish them off. But run two separate conduit runs down to each box, then in the future if you wanted to abandon one of them just unhook or pull the wires out and cover it up ? Thanks Chicago? I'm sorry. But no need for double runs- you can just daisy-chain the boxes. If you decide to abandon the lower outlets later, rather than add rings to the front and make them available in the cabinets, just remove the outlets and the last 3 feet of wire, disconnecting them at the upper box. As long as no live wires end in a buried box, code does not care about abandoned conduit runs. Who knows- when you get to the cabinet stage, you may want to use the lower boxes as junctions to feed something else built into the lower cabinets. Or you may want to put a mini-fridge down there or something. You can never have too many outlets, as long as the circuit has the headroom. -- aem sends...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - When you say, "never too many", what would you say what you would put in. If the code calls for every 12', would a more desirable distance be every 6-8' ? |
#29
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid wrote:
On May 17, 9:59 am, aemeijers wrote: (snip) But no need for double runs- you can just daisy-chain the boxes. If you decide to abandon the lower outlets later, rather than add rings to the front and make them available in the cabinets, just remove the outlets and the last 3 feet of wire, disconnecting them at the upper box. As long as no live wires end in a buried box, code does not care about abandoned conduit runs. Who knows- when you get to the cabinet stage, you may want to use the lower boxes as junctions to feed something else built into the lower cabinets. Or you may want to put a mini-fridge down there or something. You can never have too many outlets, as long as the circuit has the headroom. -- aem sends...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - When you say, "never too many", what would you say what you would put in. If the code calls for every 12', would a more desirable distance be every 6-8' ? If I was wiring up new space, I'd do at least that close, plus extras where I thought desks, workbenches, entertainment centers, etc, would be. (Paying close attention to load balancing, of course, and maybe follow current kitchen practice of alternating outlets being fed by different breakers.) Lights and outlets should be on separate breakers, so you aren't in the dark very often. Boxes, EMT, wire, and fixtures are cheap, compared to the PITA of not having one where you need one. Difference in labor cost is trivial, especially if you are doing the rough-in, and only having a licensed electrician do the hookups. (Or are you hooking these to the panel yourself?) By the way- map the heck out of everything before the walls are closed up, including maybe writing the breaker number on the back of the covers before you install them. -- aem sends... |
#30
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empty electrical box behind drywall
sid posted for all of us...
While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? I know I'm coming in late but... In my case the boxes will never be where they should be... The boxes will never be where I expect them to be - in spite of all documentation. -- Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service. |
#31
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empty electrical box behind drywall
On May 15, 7:12*pm, sid wrote:
On May 15, 12:17*pm, RickH wrote: On May 15, 9:19*am, sid wrote: While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I might want to place receptacles in the future ? *Leave the cutout to the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the opening with tape, mud and paint. In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and terminate. Is there anything wrong with this ? Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall plate. *You dont want to "bury" the box. Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some day. *But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. *I was considering leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative. Thanks Empty boxes are perfectly legal. That means no wires as well as no receptacles. If there are wires in the box then it is a pull or junction box and it must be accessible without removing structural components or finish materials. -- Tom Horne |
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