I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads".
Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...BE&appName=IBE

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off. I'm
going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling light
fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light fixture to
the new occupancy sensor switch. I was thinking that to do that, the new
wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power is at the light.
I think that means that the switch loop will have a black wire at the switch
and a white wire that is coded black -- in other words, essentially just two
"black" wires at the switch and no neutral white wire. Is that correct?
Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light switch with just these two
"black" wires coming to the switch?

"BetaB4" wrote in message
...
I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
loads". Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...BE&appName=IBE

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off.
I'm going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling
light fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light
fixture to the new occupancy sensor switch. I was thinking that to do
that, the new wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power
is at the light. I think that means that the switch loop will have a black
wire at the switch and a white wire that is coded black -- in other words,
essentially just two "black" wires at the switch and no neutral white
wire. Is that correct? Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light
switch with just these two "black" wires coming to the switch?

The CFL does not have a magnetic ballast, so most likely that motion sensor
won't work. Your wiring scheme is correct however, I would run a three
conductor cable to the switch location, as some motion sensors do require a
neutral. I'm not sure if anything is currently on the market that will
control a CFL, but in all likelyhood, it won't be long before something
becomes available. My guess is that anything that will control a load as
small as a CFL will probably require a neutral to operate, so be prepared if
you're doing the wiring ahead of time

"RBM" wrote in message
...

"BetaB4" wrote in message
...
I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
loads". Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...BE&appName=IBE

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off.
I'm going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling
light fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light
fixture to the new occupancy sensor switch. I was thinking that to do
that, the new wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power
is at the light. I think that means that the switch loop will have a
black wire at the switch and a white wire that is coded black -- in other
words, essentially just two "black" wires at the switch and no neutral
white wire. Is that correct? Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor
light switch with just these two "black" wires coming to the switch?

The CFL does not have a magnetic ballast, so most likely that motion
sensor won't work. Your wiring scheme is correct however, I would run a
three conductor cable to the switch location, as some motion sensors do
require a neutral. I'm not sure if anything is currently on the market
that will control a CFL, but in all likelyhood, it won't be long before
something becomes available. My guess is that anything that will control a
load as small as a CFL will probably require a neutral to operate, so be
prepared if you're doing the wiring ahead of time

The moment I hit the send button, Hubbell came out with a model for CFL
lamps: It doesn't mention if a neutral is required though. :
http://www.hubbell-automation.com/me...tsheet2007.pdf

BetaB4 wrote:
I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new
ceiling light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a
Leviton PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn
on "incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast
lighting loads". Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...BE&appName=IBE

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
load"? Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just
"Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever
that is.
Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The
existing fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it
on and off. I'm going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a
CFL-bulb ceiling light fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new
wire from the light fixture to the new occupancy sensor switch. I
was thinking that to do that, the new wire to the switch would be a
"switch loop" since the power is at the light. I think that means
that the switch loop will have a black wire at the switch and a white
wire that is coded black -- in other words, essentially just two
"black" wires at the switch and no neutral white wire. Is that
correct? Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light switch
with just these two "black" wires coming to the switch?

Considerably less trouble is a gizmo that screws into the existing socket
with a motion detector built in. I've got one in the laundry pantry. Works
swell. I open the doors, the light comes on.

I have to remember to close the doors, else someone putzing around in the
adjacent breakfast room will trigger the light.

On Apr 18, 6:32*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"BetaB4" wrote in message

...





I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. *The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
loads". Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...emId=qZ-ZWUgo7....

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. *The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off.
I'm going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling
light fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light
fixture to the new occupancy sensor switch. *I was thinking that to do
that, the new wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power
is at the light. I think that means that the switch loop will have a black
wire at the switch and a white wire that is coded black -- in other words,
essentially just two "black" wires at the switch and no neutral white
wire. *Is that correct? Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light
switch with just these two "black" wires coming to the switch?

The CFL does not have a magnetic ballast, so most likely that motion sensor
won't work. Your wiring scheme is correct however, I would run a three
conductor cable to the switch location, as some motion sensors do require a
neutral. I'm not sure if anything is currently on the market that will
control a CFL, but in all likelyhood, it won't be long before something
becomes available. My guess is that anything that will control a load as
small as a CFL will probably require a neutral to operate, so be prepared if
you're doing the wiring ahead of time



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

(It's late and I haven't learned anything new today, so hurry up with
an answer!)

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Apr 18, 6:32 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"BetaB4" wrote in message

...





I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
loads". Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...emId=qZ-ZWUgo7...

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off.
I'm going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling
light fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light
fixture to the new occupancy sensor switch. I was thinking that to do
that, the new wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the
power
is at the light. I think that means that the switch loop will have a
black
wire at the switch and a white wire that is coded black -- in other
words,
essentially just two "black" wires at the switch and no neutral white
wire. Is that correct? Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light
switch with just these two "black" wires coming to the switch?

The CFL does not have a magnetic ballast, so most likely that motion
sensor
won't work. Your wiring scheme is correct however, I would run a three
conductor cable to the switch location, as some motion sensors do require
a
neutral. I'm not sure if anything is currently on the market that will
control a CFL, but in all likelyhood, it won't be long before something
becomes available. My guess is that anything that will control a load as
small as a CFL will probably require a neutral to operate, so be prepared
if
you're doing the wiring ahead of time



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

(It's late and I haven't learned anything new today, so hurry up with
an answer!)


I think the manufacturers try to build devices like this to replace existing
switches. They get their power by allowing a small amount of current to flow
through the lamps that are being controlled, or some use a leak to ground
system. If the load being controlled is to light, not enough current can
pass through to operate the control without lighting the light. The devices
like this that use a neutral are much more versatile, but are limited to
locations where a neutral exists

In article , BetaB4 wrote:
I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads".
Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...BE&appName=IBE

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

CFLs are not such loads, and are not recommended except for CFLs rated
specifically to be usable with dimmers and electronic switching devices.

CFLs rated to be usable with dimmers will probably be OK even if not
overtly rated for electronic switching devices,
but my warranty against damage to the CFL or the switching device or the
building/contents/occupants shall be limited to what I got paid to post
this...

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off. I'm
going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling light
fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light fixture to
the new occupancy sensor switch. I was thinking that to do that, the new
wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power is at the light.
I think that means that the switch loop will have a black wire at the switch
and a white wire that is coded black -- in other words, essentially just two
"black" wires at the switch and no neutral white wire. Is that correct?

As I hear it, that is correct - black tape wrapped around both ends of
the "switched hot" white wire.

Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light switch with just these two
"black" wires coming to the switch?

Those I don't know too well - though I doubt you need any cable to have
both two hots and a neutral, though fair to good chance you need ground
for every cable. According to that, to extent I know such well enough,
ordinary "romex" should be OK.

If you have a cable with two "black wires", one of them switched, it
sounds to me that you need a junction box somewhere, though many lighting
fixtures have some enclosure allowable to use as a junction box (provided
proper fittings around all cables such as "1/2 inch connectors" or the
like is provided for and used). Also, ground wires of every cable must
connect to every junction box that the cables enter.
Anything used as a junction box, as well as every light fixture housing
having a green grounding screw whether or not the light fixture is used as
a junction box, needs every cable entering such to have a "grounding
conductor" (as opposed to "grounded conductor", which is "white wire")
connected to the "green screw" or otherwise connected to the metal
housing.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , RBM wrote:

"BetaB4" wrote in message
...
I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting
loads". Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...BE&appName=IBE

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off.
I'm going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling
light fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light
fixture to the new occupancy sensor switch. I was thinking that to do
that, the new wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power
is at the light. I think that means that the switch loop will have a black
wire at the switch and a white wire that is coded black -- in other words,
essentially just two "black" wires at the switch and no neutral white
wire. Is that correct? Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light
switch with just these two "black" wires coming to the switch?

The CFL does not have a magnetic ballast, so most likely that motion sensor
won't work.

Most CFLs with magnetic ballasts integral within the "bulbs" (rare
nowadays) and most CFL desk lamps with "wallwart ballasts" (also not very
common) have low power factor. It appears to me that the switching device
in question requires high power factor, meaning incompatibility with even
many to most magnetic-ballasted CFLs.
This also means incompatibility with most fluorescent fixtures for
"bulbs" rated 22 watts or less (with exception for at least some rated
specifically for 17 watts), especially not good with most to nearly all
fluorescent fixtures with starters - regardless of wattage, though most
of those are 22 watts or less and other than 27 watts,
but a few "low power factor ones" may be among the few with starters and
wattages of 26, 28, 30 and 40 watts, 1 bulb per ballast, maybe whatever 32
watt one with a starter that I have low expectation to find existing.

- Don Klipstein )

"RBM" wrote in message
...
.............. My guess is that anything that will control a load as
small as a CFL will probably require a neutral to operate, so be prepared
if you're doing the wiring ahead of time

The moment I hit the send button, Hubbell came out with a model for CFL
lamps: It doesn't mention if a neutral is required though. :
http://www.hubbell-automation.com/me...tsheet2007.pdf


That's interesting that Hubbell has a model that is made for CFL's. I'll
have to try to figure out where I can buy them -- I'm not sure who carries
their brand.

"RBM" wrote in message
...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

(It's late and I haven't learned anything new today, so hurry up with
an answer!)


I think the manufacturers try to build devices like this to replace
existing switches. They get their power by allowing a small amount of
current to flow through the lamps that are being controlled, or some use a
leak to ground system. If the load being controlled is to light, not
enough current can pass through to operate the control without lighting
the light. The devices like this that use a neutral are much more
versatile, but are limited to locations where a neutral exists

I am amazed that the Leviton switch doesn't mention anything about this --
especially now that more and more people are using CFL's. And, it seems
strange that there isn't a way to use the Leviton with a CFL at least in
situations where there is a neutral already at the switch.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Considerably less trouble is a gizmo that screws into the existing socket
with a motion detector built in. I've got one in the laundry pantry. Works
swell. I open the doors, the light comes on.


A good idea, but I don't know if that will work with a CFL bulb (based on
what others have written here about how these motion sensors work).

On Apr 18, 5:11*pm, "BetaB4" wrote:
I want to put in an occupancy sensor wall switch to control a new ceiling
light that uses a CFL bulb. *The switch I want to get is a Leviton
PR-150-1L.

When I read the product specs online, it says it can be used to turn on
"incandescent and Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads".
Here's the link to the product info:

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGe...emId=qZ-ZWUgo7....

Is a CFL bulb a "Rapid Start Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting load"?
Nothing in the specs mentions CFL lighting fixtures, just "Rapid Start
Magnetic fluorescent ballast lighting loads" -- whatever that is.

Also, this light fixture is at the end of a wiring circuit. *The existing
fixture is just a bulb holder with a pull chain to turn it on and off. *I'm
going to eliminate that fixture, replace it with a CFL-bulb ceiling light
fixture (with no pull chain), and run a new wire from the light fixture to
the new occupancy sensor switch. *I was thinking that to do that, the new
wire to the switch would be a "switch loop" since the power is at the light.
I think that means that the switch loop will have a black wire at the switch
and a white wire that is coded black -- in other words, essentially just two
"black" wires at the switch and no neutral white wire. *Is that correct?
Will I be able to wire the occupancy sensor light switch with just these two
"black" wires coming to the switch?

I wonder, I use x10 with cfls and it said not to, I replaced a
photocell that said its not for flourescent and I have 20 connected to
it.

In ,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

SNIP previously quoted stuff

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

Many electronic switching devices use triacs. If a switching device
using a triac and not designed to handle CFLs is used with a CFL not rated
for use with such devices (or at least with dimmers), then either of 2
things may happen:

1. The CFL may not let through current at the time of each half-cycle of
the line fequency that the triac is triggered. The triac's triggering
mail fail to take hold, causing the triac to not conduct.

2. The triac may begin conducting at a time in each half-cycle when the
voltage across the filter capacitor in the CFL is less than the
instantaneous line voltage. This is more of a problem with dimmers.
The problem here is that the filter capacitor would draw a spike of
current to quickly charge up to the instantaneous line voltage. Repeating
such spikes every half cycle may overheat the triac, copper traces on the
circuit board that the triac is mounted on, or the filter capacitor or
circuit board traces in the CFL.

- Don Klipstein )

On Apr 19, 5:24�pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In ,

DerbyDad03 wrote:

SNIP previously quoted stuff

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

� Many electronic switching devices use triacs. �If a switching device
using a triac and not designed to handle CFLs is used with a CFL not rated
for use with such devices (or at least with dimmers), then either of 2
things may happen:

1. �The CFL may not let through current at the time of each half-cycle of
the line fequency that the triac is triggered. �The triac's triggering
mail fail to take hold, causing the triac to not conduct.

2. �The triac may begin conducting at a time in each half-cycle when the
voltage across the filter capacitor in the CFL is less than the
instantaneous line voltage. �This is more of a problem with dimmers.
� The problem here is that the filter capacitor would draw a spike of
current to quickly charge up to the instantaneous line voltage. �Repeating
such spikes every half cycle may overheat the triac, copper traces on the
circuit board that the triac is mounted on, or the filter capacitor or
circuit board traces in the CFL.

�- Don Klipstein )

couldnt the triac controller justt be fed to a standard relay?

On Sun 19 Apr 2009 06:43:55a, BetaB4 told us...

"RBM" wrote in message
...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
..
.

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

(It's late and I haven't learned anything new today, so hurry up with
an answer!)


I think the manufacturers try to build devices like this to replace
existing switches. They get their power by allowing a small amount of
current to flow through the lamps that are being controlled, or some
use a leak to ground system. If the load being controlled is to light,
not enough current can pass through to operate the control without
lighting the light. The devices like this that use a neutral are much
more versatile, but are limited to locations where a neutral exists

I am amazed that the Leviton switch doesn't mention anything about this
-- especially now that more and more people are using CFL's. And, it
seems strange that there isn't a way to use the Leviton with a CFL at
least in situations where there is a neutral already at the switch.

Not knowing any better, I installed a Leviton motion sensor switch in our
laundry room/pantry to control a ceiling light that has 3 13watt CFLs.
Never had a problem with it working. Never occurred to me that it
wouldn't. I don't know the brand, the these are just common CFLs from
Lowes.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Mexico we have a word for sushi: bait. ~José Simons

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sun 19 Apr 2009 06:43:55a, BetaB4 told us...

"RBM" wrote in message
...
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
..
.

What's different about a motion sensor that would prevent it from
operating any bulb screwed into a standard socket?

Doesn't it just close contacts that pass power to the fixture? How
would it know what's screwed into it?

(It's late and I haven't learned anything new today, so hurry up with
an answer!)


I think the manufacturers try to build devices like this to replace
existing switches. They get their power by allowing a small amount of
current to flow through the lamps that are being controlled, or some
use a leak to ground system. If the load being controlled is to light,
not enough current can pass through to operate the control without
lighting the light. The devices like this that use a neutral are much
more versatile, but are limited to locations where a neutral exists
I am amazed that the Leviton switch doesn't mention anything about this
-- especially now that more and more people are using CFL's. And, it
seems strange that there isn't a way to use the Leviton with a CFL at
least in situations where there is a neutral already at the switch.

Not knowing any better, I installed a Leviton motion sensor switch in our
laundry room/pantry to control a ceiling light that has 3 13watt CFLs.
Never had a problem with it working. Never occurred to me that it
wouldn't. I don't know the brand, the these are just common CFLs from
Lowes.

Hi,
I use a dimmable CFL on motion sensor. It works fine.

HeyBub wrote:

Considerably less trouble is a gizmo that screws into the existing
socket with a motion detector built in. I've got one in the laundry
pantry. Works swell. I open the doors, the light comes on.

I have to remember to close the doors, else someone putzing around in
the adjacent breakfast room will trigger the light.

Amazing. I just saw one of those at Home Depot and it plainly and
specifically says that it works with CFL bulbs.

I should have done that from the get-go.