On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:40:55 -0500, metspitzer
wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

I would suspect some "security" reason. That seems to be one of the
more common reasons for making you do something the hard way.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.

Bryce wrote:
metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.


Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the
time. Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an unreliable
POS and possibly also due to the onward march of technology, more and
more people are printing directly to .pdf and/or scanning and emailing,
and I am glad of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT people
don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files, so that
creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or so worth of
emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't receive any more
email. OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to leave stuff on the
server so I can deal with it from home over webmail... well not so much.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.


Get an account with one of those online fax companies. There used to be freebie
one's available, but they may be no more.

My printer is also a fax machine. If I expect a fax, I turn it on. Otherwise, it
isn't on unless I'm printing, and doesn't bother the phone machine.

On 4/13/2009 4:40 PM metspitzer spake thus:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Speaking of astounding things, along with why fax hasn't gone the way of
punch cards and acoustic modems is how much *spam* you'll get if you set
up a dedicated fax #. I worked for a guy recently with a separate fax
line, and every day the "vacation in Cancun" and "refinance now" ****
filled up the fax machine's tray.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

The Daring Dufas wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked
her if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't
do that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least
give them an email address.

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

It's a lot harder to make copies of a fax transmission (not the resultant
fax, the electronic signal) and replay or reproduce it. It's harder to
archive a fax. A fax is designed to be a one-to-one communication, wherease
emails are often one-to-many.

metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.
Hmmm,
I use fax a lot on my small business operation.
Also fax being sent over copper line, in a way it is secure.
We also have distinct ring feature on our line. Fax answers
automatically when fax is incoming.

The Daring Dufas wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD
Hi,
Sending signed document via email involves more than simply just fax'ing it.

On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

Probably the biggest reason that faxes still exist is that high-speed
scanners are not just taking off. With a slow scanner, who wants to
wait while it scans. Now, with 50 and 60 ppm scanners, it's quicker
to email. With speed will come use.

Faxes transformed business. But they are not dying out. Pretty
amazing life-cycle.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the time.
Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an unreliable POS and
possibly also due to the onward march of technology, more and more people
are printing directly to .pdf and/or scanning and emailing, and I am glad
of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT people
don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files, so that
creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or so worth of
emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't receive any more
email. OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to leave stuff on the
server so I can deal with it from home over webmail... well not so much.

nate

While you say you prefer email, you just gave a lot of reasons that the fax
is still a major tool for communicating. Sounds like your IT people are
morons also. 2MB limit made sense in 1985, not today.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/13/2009 4:40 PM metspitzer spake thus:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Speaking of astounding things, along with why fax hasn't gone the way of
punch cards and acoustic modems is how much *spam* you'll get if you set
up a dedicated fax #. I worked for a guy recently with a separate fax
line, and every day the "vacation in Cancun" and "refinance now" ****
filled up the fax machine's tray.


Hi,
You can register on Do not Call List. Or you can program the machine to
block certain numbers. If I get junk email or fax, I trace it and I'll
send 1000 replies.

Tony Hwang wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD
Hi,
Sending signed document via email involves more than simply just fax'ing
it.

Perhaps That's the reason the bank prefers a FAX.

TDD

Nate Nagel wrote:
Bryce wrote:
metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.


Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the
time. Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an unreliable
POS and possibly also due to the onward march of technology, more and
more people are printing directly to .pdf and/or scanning and emailing,
and I am glad of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT people
don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files, so that
creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or so worth of
emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't receive any more
email. OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to leave stuff on the
server so I can deal with it from home over webmail... well not so much.

nate

They still let you bump your work email from the outside world? They
killed our webmail interface a couple of years ago. If I want to work
from home, I have to drag the company laptop home and VPN in. They even
locked out the USB ports so we can't use external drives.

--
aem sends...

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:42:09 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.


Get an account with one of those online fax companies. There used to be freebie
one's available, but they may be no more.

I think they are still available for free. I periodically get spam
offering it, and I signed up for one. There is Fax-to-pc and there
is pc-to-fax I'm not sure if both are available free from the same
company, but you can sign up for each free half at two different
companies if you really want.

My printer is also a fax machine. If I expect a fax, I turn it on. Otherwise, it
isn't on unless I'm printing, and doesn't bother the phone machine.

I used to send out about 10 faxes every 2 or 3 months, hiking
schedules to newspapers. Somewhere after I stopped doing that, my
Fax-modem software stopped working and now less than once every 2 or 3
years I go to a cell phone store or staples or something to send or
receive. A dollar a page last I looked, and if you call them, they'll
tell you their fax number. Sending at Staples is self-service.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.



OTOH, how many times has a fax machine dialed an incorrect number. If
that number happened to also have a fax machine on it, the fax goes to
them. It's not a farfetched an idea as you might think. In my
hospital, we've gotten faxes meant for others many a time. I assume
we've sent a few as well.



Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd at carolina.rr.com

Bryce wrote:

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.



If you have scan capability, save your document as a pdf file. It's the
rare computer that can't handle one of those.




Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd at carolina.rr.com

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:14:54 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD
Hi,
Sending signed document via email involves more than simply just fax'ing it.

How would it be any different than just scanning it into the computer?

While it is true that there may be a security reason I am not aware of
for some documents, the form I needed would certainly not have needed
any.

On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

On 4/13/2009 8:21 PM Mortimer Schnerd spake thus:

Bryce wrote:

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

If you have scan capability, save your document as a pdf file. It's the
rare computer that can't handle one of those.

Or better yet as a GIF. PDF, while useful for lots of kinds of
documents, is *horrible* for bitmapped images--el bloato. Nothing like
getting a 4 megabyte PDF that takes 5 minutes for me to download (dial-up).

I've been making lotsa 16-colors GIFs lately (grayscale). Nice and
small, easy to handle, all modern web browsers and mail clients can read
'em. Easy to make w/Paint Shop Pro.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

Or better yet as a GIF. PDF, while useful for lots of kinds of
documents, is *horrible* for bitmapped images--el bloato. Nothing like
getting a 4 megabyte PDF that takes 5 minutes for me to download
(dial-up).


PDF's should be optimized for "web" display. I am always amazed by the
small size of the pdfs derived from my complicated word files with many
pictures. 5 MB to a few 100 kB is normal.

Moreover, one can digitally sign pdfs once you're set up for that (OK, I
have Acrobat 9 Pro - academic).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

I agree with you. People insist on sending me faxes and I had to buy
a new machine as old one was worn out.
In 2 months, new machine has received only one fax and that was from a
telemarketer.

Same thing for US postal service. In my part time consulting, I used
to spend $10-20/month on postage and now only spend the cost of one
stamp to customer that insists getting billed by mail.

On Apr 13, 7:34*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD

Actually faxes or voice can be easily intercepted if you know how and
you dont even need access to the phone line but you do have to go
through a hell of a lot of security. It used to be that a phone tap
was made by directly connecting to the wires of a particular phone.
Now that can be done from a computer at the telco office or by
remotely connecting to that computer. I still think faxes are more
secure.

Jimmie

On Apr 13, 11:42*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.

JIMMIE wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:34 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.
Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD

Actually faxes or voice can be easily intercepted if you know how and
you dont even need access to the phone line but you do have to go
through a hell of a lot of security. It used to be that a phone tap
was made by directly connecting to the wires of a particular phone.
Now that can be done from a computer at the telco office or by
remotely connecting to that computer. I still think faxes are more
secure.

Jimmie

Yea, back when Ma Bell changed over to electronic switches,
the feds coerced them into building in a back door just for
the alphabet agencies.

TDD

On Apr 14, 10:44*am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. *Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. *I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). *Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. *Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. *It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. *Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. *I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once you've programmed in their email addresses...

You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.

The conversation typically goes like this:

Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.

They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.

Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.

You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.

On Apr 14, 11:03*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:34 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.
Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.

TDD

Actually faxes or voice can be easily intercepted if you know how and
you dont even need access to the phone line but you do have to go
through a hell of a lot of security. It used to be that a phone tap
was made by directly connecting to the wires of a particular phone.
Now that can be done from a computer at the telco office or by
remotely connecting to that computer. I still think faxes are more
secure.

Jimmie

Yea, back when Ma Bell changed over to electronic switches,
the feds coerced them into building in a back door just for
the alphabet agencies.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It wasnt exactly coercion. MA bell put in the new digital system then
the agencies said" we cant do wiretaps now, we need that for national
security" and ma bell offered to fix that problem for a large some of
money. The truth was that the capability was already built in.


Jimmie

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:39 -0500, wrote:
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

I usually just print out the paperwork, sign it, scan it into a pdf,
and email the pdf back.

JIMMIE wrote:
On Apr 14, 11:03 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:34 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.
Some folks consider a FAX to be more secure than E-mail.
In some ways it is. It's a lot harder to intercept a FAX
than an E-mail. I know how but I'd have to have access to
your phone line. Someone who knows how, can access your
E-mail or computer from the other side of the world.
TDD
Actually faxes or voice can be easily intercepted if you know how and
you dont even need access to the phone line but you do have to go
through a hell of a lot of security. It used to be that a phone tap
was made by directly connecting to the wires of a particular phone.
Now that can be done from a computer at the telco office or by
remotely connecting to that computer. I still think faxes are more
secure.
Jimmie
Yea, back when Ma Bell changed over to electronic switches,
the feds coerced them into building in a back door just for
the alphabet agencies.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It wasnt exactly coercion. MA bell put in the new digital system then
the agencies said" we cant do wiretaps now, we need that for national
security" and ma bell offered to fix that problem for a large some of
money. The truth was that the capability was already built in.


Jimmie

Or, the government was paying them a large sum of money. :~)

TDD

On Apr 14, 12:58*pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:39 -0500, wrote:
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

-- I usually just print out the paperwork, sign it, scan it into a
pdf, and email the pdf back.

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Scan
Step 4 - email

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Fax

On Apr 14, 12:35*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03





wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44*am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. *Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. *I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). *Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. *Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. *It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. *Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. *I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once you've programmed in their email addresses...

You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.

The conversation typically goes like this:

Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.

They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.

Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.

You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is still not an original document, no matter how you send it
electronically

Which is why we sometimes have to follow up our faxes with the
original document - even if the fax clearly shows a Medallion
Guarantee or notary stamp.

On 4/14/2009 4:14 AM Han spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

Or better yet as a GIF. PDF, while useful for lots of kinds of
documents, is *horrible* for bitmapped images--el bloato. Nothing like
getting a 4 megabyte PDF that takes 5 minutes for me to download
(dial-up).

PDF's should be optimized for "web" display. I am always amazed by the
small size of the pdfs derived from my complicated word files with many
pictures. 5 MB to a few 100 kB is normal.

That's true, and people who make PDFs should be merciful and make them
as small as practical. But what you're gonna have is a lower-resolution
picture, which may make it useless. A raw GIF is always going to be
smaller than any PDF made from an image; the file format puts a pretty
hefty "wrapper" around the image.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On Apr 14, 12:35*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03



wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44*am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. *Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. *I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). *Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. *Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. *It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. *Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. *I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once you've programmed in their email addresses...

You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.

The conversation typically goes like this:

Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.

They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.

Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.

You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic signature is
valid as an original. It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature (on
my version 5.0). It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.

Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.

I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. They are almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.

Pat wrote:

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.

You're missing out on a lot of super vacation packages!

Best get your fax back online double-quick.

On Apr 14, 2:52*pm, Pat wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:35*pm, wrote:





On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44*am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Apr 13, 7:40*pm, metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. *Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. *I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). *Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. *Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. *It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. *Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. *I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once you've programmed in their email addresses...

You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.

The conversation typically goes like this:

Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.

They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.

Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.

You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic signature is
valid as an original. *It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. *You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature (on
my version 5.0). *It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.

Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. *That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.

I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. *They are almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.

On Apr 14, 3:28�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:52�pm, Pat wrote:





On Apr 14, 12:35�pm, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44�am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Apr 13, 7:40�pm, metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. �Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. �The girl said she would fax me a form. �I asked her
if she could just email it to me. �She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. �I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. �They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. �Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. �I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). �Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. �Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. �It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. �Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax..

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. �I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Once you've programmed in their email addresses...

You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.

The conversation typically goes like this:

Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.

They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.

Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.

You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic signature is
valid as an original. �It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. �You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature (on
my version 5.0). �It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.

Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. �That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.

I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. �They are almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a small business and tired of junk faxes and the machine
ringing softly in the middle of the night. I turned my fax number
off

The machine sits here mostly unused,. I ask everyone to e mail it to
me instead.

Faxes and beepers are both mostly obsolete

beepers replaced with cell phones and so much more

aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Bryce wrote:
metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.


Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the
time. Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an unreliable
POS and possibly also due to the onward march of technology, more and
more people are printing directly to .pdf and/or scanning and
emailing, and I am glad of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT
people don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files, so
that creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or so
worth of emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't
receive any more email. OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to
leave stuff on the server so I can deal with it from home over
webmail... well not so much.

nate

They still let you bump your work email from the outside world? They
killed our webmail interface a couple of years ago. If I want to work
from home, I have to drag the company laptop home and VPN in. They even
locked out the USB ports so we can't use external drives.

--
aem sends...

I can't even do that. Got a new laptop recently and the wireless card
was disabled. What the heck good does it do to give me a laptop that I
can't use outside the office? On the upside yes I still have webmail
and USB works, which is good because that's the only way I can get
pictures off my camera (there's so many different reasons why a picture
is literally worth more than a thousand words sometimes)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

bob haller wrote:
On Apr 14, 3:28�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:52�pm, Pat wrote:





On Apr 14, 12:35�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44�am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40�pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. �Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. �The girl said she would fax me a form. �I asked her
if she could just email it to me. �She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. �I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. �They should at least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.
For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. �Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. �I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). �Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. �Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving. �It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you would
save phone charges. �Otherwise there would be little difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.
I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. �I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Once you've programmed in their email addresses...
You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.
The conversation typically goes like this:
Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.
They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.
Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.
You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic signature is
valid as an original. �It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. �You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature (on
my version 5.0). �It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.
Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. �That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.
I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. �They are almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a small business and tired of junk faxes and the machine
ringing softly in the middle of the night. I turned my fax number
off

The machine sits here mostly unused,. I ask everyone to e mail it to
me instead.

Faxes and beepers are both mostly obsolete

beepers replaced with cell phones and so much more

My cellphone will never replace my pager/beeper. I've
had the same service for 25 years and the same number
for 20 years. Someone can always leave a message.

TDD

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:54:14 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Pat wrote:

I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.

You're missing out on a lot of super vacation packages!

Best get your fax back online double-quick.


LMAO!