On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:20:10 -0400, Mortimer Schnerd
wrote:

OTOH, how many times has a fax machine dialed an incorrect number. If
that number happened to also have a fax machine on it, the fax goes to
them. It's not a farfetched an idea as you might think. In my
hospital, we've gotten faxes meant for others many a time. I assume
we've sent a few as well.

Good point. A cover letter should instruct the recipient; under
penalty of law, to destroy the document if they recieved it by
mistake.

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Apr 14, 10:44 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
(snip)

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Mostly, but no longer 100% true. Laws, case law, commercial practices,
and bureaucratic rulebooks are slowly starting to recognize digital
signatures using PKI certificates from a 'recognized' certificate
storehouse. (like verisign, et al.) They have been promising 'next year'
for several years to have a 'certificate bridge' gateway so private
companies can interact with the Fed Gov and the certificates they use.
Lotsa companies with Fed contracts already routinely do contracts and
PO's with electronic sigs, and they never hit paper. I use electronic
sigs routinely on legal docs that stay within the government.

Another 20 years (if it all doesn't fall down), and I think FedEx'd or
faxed contracts will be a quaint historical curiosity. Remember, it has
only been a few decades since they stopped using sealing wax on
contracts. ('signed, sealed, and delivered' was not referring to an
envelope and the USPS....)

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Apr 14, 10:44 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
(snip)

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Mostly, but no longer 100% true. Laws, case law, commercial practices,
and bureaucratic rulebooks are slowly starting to recognize digital
signatures using PKI certificates from a 'recognized' certificate
storehouse. (like verisign, et al.) They have been promising 'next year'
for several years to have a 'certificate bridge' gateway so private
companies can interact with the Fed Gov and the certificates they use.
Lotsa companies with Fed contracts already routinely do contracts and
PO's with electronic sigs, and they never hit paper. I use electronic
sigs routinely on legal docs that stay within the government.

Another 20 years (if it all doesn't fall down), and I think FedEx'd or
faxed contracts will be a quaint historical curiosity. Remember, it has
only been a few decades since they stopped using sealing wax on
contracts. ('signed, sealed, and delivered' was not referring to an
envelope and the USPS....)

--
aem sends...

I still have a few customers who insist on hand signed documents in blue
ink. whaddayagonnado? If it gets a job, I'll sign it and throw it in
an envelope.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:58 pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:39 -0500, wrote:
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
-- I usually just print out the paperwork, sign it, scan it into a
pdf, and email the pdf back.

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Scan
Step 4 - email

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Fax

We have some Really Keen hi-rez HP scanners at work, that e-mail
directly from the scanner, as .pdf files, and keep an audit trail of
what they did. Most of us happily gave up our stand-alone low rez
desktop scanners, either flatbed or those useless stick things where you
had to stuff the paper through 'just so' or the lettering was illegible,
and do all sorts of on-screen manipulations to make a mailable document
out of the mess. People we deal with prefer product from these fancy
scanners to standard fax. Of course, these Really Keen HPs are about
$3500 a pop, but for a 15-person office pod, that is easily justifiable.
And they are FAST. If we need something for internal use, we just email
it to ourselves. It is in the inbasket by the time we walk back to our
desks.

But yes, we still have an old-style fax machine, too. It may do 5-6
pages on a busy week.

--
aem sends...

Nate Nagel wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Bryce wrote:
metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.


Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the
time. Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an unreliable
POS and possibly also due to the onward march of technology, more and
more people are printing directly to .pdf and/or scanning and
emailing, and I am glad of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT
people don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files,
so that creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or
so worth of emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't
receive any more email. OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to
leave stuff on the server so I can deal with it from home over
webmail... well not so much.

nate

They still let you bump your work email from the outside world? They
killed our webmail interface a couple of years ago. If I want to work
from home, I have to drag the company laptop home and VPN in. They
even locked out the USB ports so we can't use external drives.

--
aem sends...

I can't even do that. Got a new laptop recently and the wireless card
was disabled. What the heck good does it do to give me a laptop that I
can't use outside the office? On the upside yes I still have webmail
and USB works, which is good because that's the only way I can get
pictures off my camera (there's so many different reasons why a picture
is literally worth more than a thousand words sometimes)

nate

Your router at home doesn't have places to plug a cable in?
--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Bryce wrote:
metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked
her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least
give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.


Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the
time. Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an
unreliable POS and possibly also due to the onward march of
technology, more and more people are printing directly to .pdf
and/or scanning and emailing, and I am glad of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT
people don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files,
so that creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or
so worth of emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't
receive any more email. OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to
leave stuff on the server so I can deal with it from home over
webmail... well not so much.

nate

They still let you bump your work email from the outside world? They
killed our webmail interface a couple of years ago. If I want to work
from home, I have to drag the company laptop home and VPN in. They
even locked out the USB ports so we can't use external drives.

--
aem sends...

I can't even do that. Got a new laptop recently and the wireless card
was disabled. What the heck good does it do to give me a laptop that
I can't use outside the office? On the upside yes I still have
webmail and USB works, which is good because that's the only way I can
get pictures off my camera (there's so many different reasons why a
picture is literally worth more than a thousand words sometimes)

nate

Your router at home doesn't have places to plug a cable in?

It's sitting on top of a bookshelf in the living room; not particularly
convenient. (it needs to be there, too - that's the only place that I
could find to put it where I'd get a wireless signal in the basement,
garage *and* upstairs.) And that rules out other places that one might
want to do work-related stuff like hotel rooms/lobbies etc.

I tried to make it work at home once with a cable and I still couldn't
make it happen. Too much security on their end and not enough puter
skills on mine.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Apr 14, 10:44 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I
still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to
them
(snip)

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Mostly, but no longer 100% true. Laws, case law, commercial practices,
and bureaucratic rulebooks are slowly starting to recognize digital
signatures using PKI certificates from a 'recognized' certificate
storehouse. (like verisign, et al.) They have been promising 'next
year' for several years to have a 'certificate bridge' gateway so
private companies can interact with the Fed Gov and the certificates
they use. Lotsa companies with Fed contracts already routinely do
contracts and PO's with electronic sigs, and they never hit paper. I
use electronic sigs routinely on legal docs that stay within the
government.

Another 20 years (if it all doesn't fall down), and I think FedEx'd or
faxed contracts will be a quaint historical curiosity. Remember, it
has only been a few decades since they stopped using sealing wax on
contracts. ('signed, sealed, and delivered' was not referring to an
envelope and the USPS....)

--
aem sends...

I still have a few customers who insist on hand signed documents in blue
ink. whaddayagonnado? If it gets a job, I'll sign it and throw it in
an envelope.

nate

For enough cash, I'll get in the car and hand-deliver the original.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Apr 14, 10:44 am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I
still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to
them
(snip)

I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

Mostly, but no longer 100% true. Laws, case law, commercial
practices, and bureaucratic rulebooks are slowly starting to
recognize digital signatures using PKI certificates from a
'recognized' certificate storehouse. (like verisign, et al.) They
have been promising 'next year' for several years to have a
'certificate bridge' gateway so private companies can interact with
the Fed Gov and the certificates they use. Lotsa companies with Fed
contracts already routinely do contracts and PO's with electronic
sigs, and they never hit paper. I use electronic sigs routinely on
legal docs that stay within the government.

Another 20 years (if it all doesn't fall down), and I think FedEx'd
or faxed contracts will be a quaint historical curiosity. Remember,
it has only been a few decades since they stopped using sealing wax
on contracts. ('signed, sealed, and delivered' was not referring to
an envelope and the USPS....)

--
aem sends...

I still have a few customers who insist on hand signed documents in
blue ink. whaddayagonnado? If it gets a job, I'll sign it and throw
it in an envelope.

nate

For enough cash, I'll get in the car and hand-deliver the original.

That too. BTDT fairly recently in fact.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:39:13 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:58 pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:39 -0500, wrote:
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
-- I usually just print out the paperwork, sign it, scan it into a
pdf, and email the pdf back.

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Scan
Step 4 - email

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Fax
more like:
step 3 put document in a place where it'll get seen the following morning
step 4 workday : remember document left home. send self an email
step 5 at home, put document in car
step 6 at work, completely forget
step 7 at home, remember document still needs to be faxed, send self another
email
step 8 at work, see email, go back downstairs get document, and finally fax it


faxing requires a phone line and involves absolutely horrendous document
quality. For me where I sign less than three documents in a year, having
the fax and phone line simply aren't worth it.

"Han" wrote in message

Moreover, one can digitally sign pdfs once you're set up for that (OK, I
have Acrobat 9 Pro - academic).


Good program if you need all the features. We use PDF995 and it does
everything we need for 10 bucks instead of $300

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:24:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:20:10 -0400, Mortimer Schnerd
wrote:

OTOH, how many times has a fax machine dialed an incorrect number. If
that number happened to also have a fax machine on it, the fax goes to
them. It's not a farfetched an idea as you might think. In my
hospital, we've gotten faxes meant for others many a time. I assume
we've sent a few as well.

Good point. A cover letter should instruct the recipient; under
penalty of law, to destroy the document if they recieved it by
mistake.

A reply to an email would have a better chance of assuring the
document gets to it's intended recipient.

In article , (metspitzer) writes:

| I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
| checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
| if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
| that.

You could always ask her to show you the fax that authorized the direct
draft in the first place...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in news:GnbFl.18918$as4.7852
@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:


"Han" wrote in message

Moreover, one can digitally sign pdfs once you're set up for that (OK, I
have Acrobat 9 Pro - academic).


Good program if you need all the features. We use PDF995 and it does
everything we need for 10 bucks instead of $300

I could get the academic version discount. Acrobat 9 Pro for ~$90. Since
it is for work, it isn't my $90 either. But ..., I hate the bloat of the
program, and the fact that the menu structure changed, plus now it does not
support having child windows anymore, and opens complete new windows for
each document. But I needed it for work - filling out forms etc for
grants. Yuck!!


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...


Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.




We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.

The Daring Dufas wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Apr 14, 3:28�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:52�pm, Pat wrote:





On Apr 14, 12:35�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44�am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40�pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I
still
need it. �Many people will let me scan something and email it
to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. �The girl said she would fax me a form. �I
asked her
if she could just email it to me. �She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. �I only have one line so
my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. �They should at
least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our
office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax
machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually
sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a
centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized
PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each
person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access
the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?)
and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print
them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of
multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just
seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.
For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was
time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. �Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. �I imagine that most of the people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). �Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. �Then you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for archiving.
�It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you
would
save phone charges. �Otherwise there would be little difference
expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.
I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. �I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Once you've programmed in their email addresses...
You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into
which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.
The conversation typically goes like this:
Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular
mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to
xxx-
xxx-xxxx.
They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major companies,
not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.
Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.
You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options available.
All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic signature is
valid as an original. �It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. �You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature (on
my version 5.0). �It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.
Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. �That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.
I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. �They are almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a small business and tired of junk faxes and the machine
ringing softly in the middle of the night. I turned my fax number
off

The machine sits here mostly unused,. I ask everyone to e mail it to
me instead.

Faxes and beepers are both mostly obsolete

beepers replaced with cell phones and so much more

My cellphone will never replace my pager/beeper. I've
had the same service for 25 years and the same number
for 20 years. Someone can always leave a message.

TDD

I had pagers for years. For a while they were good until cell coverage
really improved. The biggest disadvantage of a pager was that if you
were out of range the message was lost forever. With a cellphone if
someone sends a message the system will keep it until your handset
registers itself on the network. Same is true of voicemail. The pager
carriers tried to address this with two way pagers but it was too little
too late.

We don't know what number we dialed. So, how are we going to
call the police and have them charged?

"Hello? Police? I sent a fax, and I'm not sure where. But
whoever it was that got the fax, I want them arrested if
they didn't destroy it cause I'm not sure who got it.
click HELLO???"

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..



Good point. A cover letter should instruct the recipient;
under
penalty of law, to destroy the document if they recieved it
by
mistake.

On Apr 14, 9:46*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Bryce wrote:
metspitzer wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

Businesses are faxaholics. *I've never owned a FAX machine or even a
scanner/printer with FAX capability. *I just use a faxmodem card in
my computer to send/receive. *For many communications, I can go
paperless by faxing the output file from my wordprocessor or doing
an on-screen display of an incoming fax saved to disk.

Like you, I have only one phone line, but for occasional fax use,
it's enough.

Up until maybe a year or two ago, people would fax me stuff all the
time. *Due to the fact that our fax machine at work was an unreliable
POS and possibly also due to the onward march of technology, more and
more people are printing directly to .pdf and/or scanning and
emailing, and I am glad of this.

Of course, my work email account has a 2MB quota, because our IT
people don't see the need for employees to be emailing large files,
so that creates other issues, like I can't leave more than a week or
so worth of emails on the server or my mailbox fills up and I can't
receive any more email. *OK if I'm in the office, but if I want to
leave stuff on the server so I can deal with it from home over
webmail... well not so much.

nate

They still let you bump your work email from the outside world? They
killed our webmail interface a couple of years ago. If I want to work
from home, I have to drag the company laptop home and VPN in. They
even locked out the USB ports so we can't use external drives.

--
aem sends...

I can't even do that. *Got a new laptop recently and the wireless card
was disabled. *What the heck good does it do to give me a laptop that I
can't use outside the office? *On the upside yes I still have webmail
and USB works, which is good because that's the only way I can get
pictures off my camera (there's so many different reasons why a picture
is literally worth more than a thousand words sometimes)

nate

Your router at home doesn't have places to plug a cable in?
--
aem sends...

Your router at home doesn't have places to plug a cable in?

There are lots of wireless routers that don't have wired ports - other
than the port to connect to a cable modem. When I replaced my wired
router with wireless so my kids and their friends could use their
laptops, it was easier (and cheaper) to find routers with no wired
ports. I think I paid about $15 - 20 more for a wireless router with 4
wired ports.

George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Apr 14, 3:28�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:52�pm, Pat wrote:





On Apr 14, 12:35�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44�am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40�pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because
I still
need it. �Many people will let me scan something and email it
to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. �The girl said she would fax me a form. �I
asked her
if she could just email it to me. �She said....no sir, we
can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. �I only have one line so
my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. �They should at
least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our
office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small
number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax
machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it
automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually
sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a
centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized
PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each
person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to
access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an
e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents,
print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of
multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just
seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.
For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for
you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was
time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. �Then you'd push the email
button instead of the fax button. �I imagine that most of the
people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance companies,
banks, etc). �Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. �Then
you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for
archiving. �It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and you
would
save phone charges. �Otherwise there would be little difference
expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than fax.
I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. �I tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Once you've programmed in their email addresses...
You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into
which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any
reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.
The conversation typically goes like this:
Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular
mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them to
xxx-
xxx-xxxx.
They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major
companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.
Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give
actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.
You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options
available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody
who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic signature is
valid as an original. �It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. �You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature (on
my version 5.0). �It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.
Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. �That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.
I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. �They are almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a small business and tired of junk faxes and the machine
ringing softly in the middle of the night. I turned my fax number
off

The machine sits here mostly unused,. I ask everyone to e mail it to
me instead.

Faxes and beepers are both mostly obsolete

beepers replaced with cell phones and so much more

My cellphone will never replace my pager/beeper. I've
had the same service for 25 years and the same number
for 20 years. Someone can always leave a message.

TDD

I had pagers for years. For a while they were good until cell coverage
really improved. The biggest disadvantage of a pager was that if you
were out of range the message was lost forever. With a cellphone if
someone sends a message the system will keep it until your handset
registers itself on the network. Same is true of voicemail. The pager
carriers tried to address this with two way pagers but it was too little
too late.

My pager service has voice-mail. I have a greeting just
like an answering machine asking callers to leave a
message. It was transitioned to a digital pager some time
ago but I still have the voice-mail. When my pager goes
off and shows my number, I know I have a new message. If
I'm out of range, my messages are stored for three days
by the service. I simply call up and check my messages.
I prefer the setup I have and only turn on my cellphone
when I'm going to use it. I rarely give anyone my cellphone
number. I even have my VOIP forwarded to my pager.

TDD

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:40:55 -0500, metspitzer
wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.


Fax machines are obsolete but many small businesses still use them.
Many people still resist paperless. Filing cabinets are still around,
but less of them unless it's government.

On Apr 16, 6:31*am, Phisherman wrote:

Fax machines are obsolete but many small businesses still use them.
Many people still resist paperless. *Filing cabinets are still around,
but less of them unless it's government.

Bwah, hah hah. Every month I give our CFO a report on engineering
hours, on paper. He types them into Excel. I've offered to send him
the hours already in Excel, but he'll have none of it.

Cindy Hamilton

On Apr 16, 6:31*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:40:55 -0500, metspitzer
wrote:

When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

Fax machines are obsolete but many small businesses still use them.
Many people still resist paperless. *Filing cabinets are still around,
but less of them unless it's government.

"Fax machines are obsolete"

Perhaps you should give us your definition of "obsolete".

I'm having trouble finding one that fits the profile of a device that
is still in extremely wide spread use, still for sale and still built
into the latest multi-function printers.

On Apr 15, 8:22*am, George wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.





We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure that your FedEx/UPS example fits very well.

I understand that you are just giving one example of the many ways
technology can replace an actual signature, but a key factor in your
example is that the driver still *hands* the client something, meaning
that there is face-to-face interaction.

I can't mail a "computer" to my client in a different state/country
and ask him to sign the computer and mail it back. I also can't ask
all of my individual clients and all of the businesses/agencies I deal
with to upgrade to a digital signature method - heck, some of my most
wealthy clients don't even own a computer.

My guess is that paper is not going away for a long time, long time
and therefore neither is the Fax machine or snail mail.

On Apr 15, 8:22*am, George wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.





We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia or
just pinching the pennies too much

I just met with a client that is an RN in a pediatric practice. She
was saying that by law they are going to have to go paperless as far
as charts within 8 years. The expense to do this appears to be more
than this small practice can handle. I don't think that it is a "penny-
pinching" issue as much as there just isn't enough bottom line cash
available to cover the costs of the transition. They are discussing
salary cuts across the board - from the doctors to the receptionist -
and/or layoffs to cover the mandated costs.

On Apr 16, 10:55*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 15, 8:22*am, George wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia or
just pinching the pennies too much

I just met with a client that is an RN in a pediatric practice. She
was saying that by law they are going to have to go paperless as far
as charts within 8 years. The expense to do this appears to be more
than this small practice can handle. I don't think that it is a "penny-
pinching" issue as much as there just isn't enough bottom line cash
available to cover the costs of the transition. They are discussing
salary cuts across the board - from the doctors to the receptionist -
and/or layoffs to cover the mandated costs.

Send this to your client and you might have a client-for-life.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123681683265602347.html

On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Apr 16, 6:31*am, Phisherman wrote:

Fax machines are obsolete but many small businesses still use them.
Many people still resist paperless. *Filing cabinets are still around,
but less of them unless it's government.

Bwah, hah hah. Every month I give our CFO a report on engineering
hours, on paper. He types them into Excel. I've offered to send him
the hours already in Excel, but he'll have none of it.

Cindy Hamilton

That is what happens with my Medical Labs too. My main hospital is
about an hour and a half drive, so they let me do labs near home.
The local lab faxes the labs to my hospital and they have to enter the
results into the computer.

I asked once why they didn't just send them the Excel file. She said,
these computers are not connected to the Internet.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 15, 8:22 am, George wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.





We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia or
just pinching the pennies too much

I just met with a client that is an RN in a pediatric practice. She
was saying that by law they are going to have to go paperless as far
as charts within 8 years. The expense to do this appears to be more
than this small practice can handle. I don't think that it is a "penny-
pinching" issue as much as there just isn't enough bottom line cash
available to cover the costs of the transition. They are discussing
salary cuts across the board - from the doctors to the receptionist -
and/or layoffs to cover the mandated costs.

I think there is a little overreaction because paperless systems aren't
that expensive that they would bust any practice except maybe a free
clinic. Likely it is more of an objection to the culture change. Also it
isn't like charts are free. You need a record room to store them and
even a small practice likely has a full time person just to pull the
charts based on the daily schedule, and to process them and refile them.

However I am against any government mandate because I don't want them
involved in my personal business any more than they already are. I think
the market should decide when it makes sense. If a doc decides he/she
doesn't want to play it should be their choice.

Pat wrote:
On Apr 16, 10:55 am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 15, 8:22 am, George wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. The girl said she would fax me a form. I asked her
if she could just email it to me. She said....no sir, we can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. They should at least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.
We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia or
just pinching the pennies too much

I just met with a client that is an RN in a pediatric practice. She
was saying that by law they are going to have to go paperless as far
as charts within 8 years. The expense to do this appears to be more
than this small practice can handle. I don't think that it is a "penny-
pinching" issue as much as there just isn't enough bottom line cash
available to cover the costs of the transition. They are discussing
salary cuts across the board - from the doctors to the receptionist -
and/or layoffs to cover the mandated costs.

Send this to your client and you might have a client-for-life.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123681683265602347.html

Not likely. There are dozens of vendors for such systems.

The Daring Dufas wrote:
George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Apr 14, 3:28�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:52�pm, Pat wrote:





On Apr 14, 12:35�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44�am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40�pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because
I still
need it. �Many people will let me scan something and email it
to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. �The girl said she would fax me a form. �I
asked her
if she could just email it to me. �She said....no sir, we
can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. �I only have one line
so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. �They should at
least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our
office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small
number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax
machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it
automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and
eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a
centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff
that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a
centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for
each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the
most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to
access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an
e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents,
print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of
multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for
errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just
seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.
For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax for
you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was
time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. �Then you'd push the
email
button instead of the fax button. �I imagine that most of the
people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance
companies,
banks, etc). �Once you've programmed in their email addresses, you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. �Then
you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for
archiving. �It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and
you would
save phone charges. �Otherwise there would be little difference
expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than
fax.
I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. �I
tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Once you've programmed in their email addresses...
You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address into
which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any
reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.
The conversation typically goes like this:
Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by regular
mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them
to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.
They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major
companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.
Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give
actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.
You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options
available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email.
Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic
signature is
valid as an original. �It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. �You go into PDF and use a self-signing security feature
(on
my version 5.0). �It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.
Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. �That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.
I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. �They are almost
all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a small business and tired of junk faxes and the machine
ringing softly in the middle of the night. I turned my fax number
off

The machine sits here mostly unused,. I ask everyone to e mail it to
me instead.

Faxes and beepers are both mostly obsolete

beepers replaced with cell phones and so much more

My cellphone will never replace my pager/beeper. I've
had the same service for 25 years and the same number
for 20 years. Someone can always leave a message.

TDD

I had pagers for years. For a while they were good until cell coverage
really improved. The biggest disadvantage of a pager was that if you
were out of range the message was lost forever. With a cellphone if
someone sends a message the system will keep it until your handset
registers itself on the network. Same is true of voicemail. The pager
carriers tried to address this with two way pagers but it was too
little too late.

My pager service has voice-mail. I have a greeting just
like an answering machine asking callers to leave a
message. It was transitioned to a digital pager some time
ago but I still have the voice-mail. When my pager goes
off and shows my number, I know I have a new message. If
I'm out of range, my messages are stored for three days
by the service. I simply call up and check my messages.
I prefer the setup I have and only turn on my cellphone
when I'm going to use it. I rarely give anyone my cellphone
number. I even have my VOIP forwarded to my pager.

TDD

The other serious problem with paging is that since there are almost no
customers left is the reliability of who is left. In my market there is
only one paging carrier left. That is Metrocall or whatever they are
called after 3 mergers and bankruptcies. According to my friend who
works for the local company that leases space to them the entire system
goes down frequently and they can't pay their bills so sometimes it
takes days to get someone in to fix it.

George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Apr 14, 3:28�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:52�pm, Pat wrote:





On Apr 14, 12:35�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:44�am, Pat wrote:
On Apr 13, 11:42�pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40�pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine
because I still
need it. �Many people will let me scan something and email
it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.
I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. �The girl said she would fax me a form. �I
asked her
if she could just email it to me. �She said....no sir, we
can't do
that.
So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. �I only have one line
so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.
Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. �They should at
least give
them an email address.
It's all about the signature...
We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our
office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small
number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax
machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it
automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and
eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.
To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a
centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff
that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a
centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for
each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the
most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to
access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an
e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents,
print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of
multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for
errors.
Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just
seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.
Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.
For outgoing mail, a email would be no different than a fax
for you.
You'd still use paper to get signatures, etc., and when it was
time to
send, you'd drop in on the same machine. �Then you'd push the
email
button instead of the fax button. �I imagine that most of the
people
you fax to are people you routinely deal with (insurance
companies,
banks, etc). �Once you've programmed in their email addresses,
you
would just pick them from the address book and hit send. �Then
you'd
take the same paper copy and stick it on the stack for
archiving. �It
would save you a little time (scanning might be quicker) and
you would
save phone charges. �Otherwise there would be little
difference expect
if you send "big" documents -- which go quicker via email than
fax.
I have a fax here, but I don' think I've used it in a year. �I
tell
everyone it isn't working and then they email it to me.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Once you've programmed in their email addresses...
You are assuming that the recipients have an e-mail address
into which
to accept the documents. I can honestly say without any
reservations,
that no company has ever offered an e-maill address as a means of
receiving signed documents.
The conversation typically goes like this:
Them: I can send you the forms that need to be signed by
regular mail,
email or fax. How would like me to send them?
Me: email please. How should I send them back to you once they are
signed?
Them: You can either mail them back to PO Box xxxx or fax them
to xxx-
xxx-xxxx.
They almost always offer 3 ways to get the blank forms to me but
never, ever offer anything other than mail or fax for getting them
back - and I'm talking about dozens and dozens of major
companies, not
just 1 or 2 mom & pop shops.
Granted, I can't say whether or not the fax number they give
actually
produces a hard copy, or if it indeed goes into an e-fax
electronic
mailbox, but as I said, an email address has never been offered.
You may recall that I said that all of our outgoing faxes
automagically get stored digitally on an archiving server, so it's
very possible that many of the faxes we send actually end up as
digital images on the receiver's end also. In other words, I'm
well
aware what the technology is capable of and the options
available. All
I know is we are always given fax numbers, not email addresses, to
send them to.
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email.
Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.
Actually, an electronic document with a proper electronic
signature is
valid as an original. �It's a little more than signing and scanning
into PDF. �You go into PDF and use a self-signing security
feature (on
my version 5.0). �It produces a signature (visible or not visible)
that allows both parties to verify the signature and to tell if the
document has been altered.
Other forms of electronic signatures are things like your PIN number
at the ATM. �That's your perfectly legal electronic signature.
I do a lot of work with state and federal grants. �They are
almost all
100% on-line. There is no paper version of anything and no paper
signatures -- we're talking multi-million dollar funding application
with nothing but an electronic signature.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
we're talking multi-million dollar funding application with
nothing but an electronic signature

And I can't transfer $100 from a joint account to one of the
individual owner's accounts without submitting the request on-line
*and* submitting a form that must be signed by both joint owners,
myself and a manager.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a small business and tired of junk faxes and the machine
ringing softly in the middle of the night. I turned my fax number
off

The machine sits here mostly unused,. I ask everyone to e mail it to
me instead.

Faxes and beepers are both mostly obsolete

beepers replaced with cell phones and so much more

My cellphone will never replace my pager/beeper. I've
had the same service for 25 years and the same number
for 20 years. Someone can always leave a message.

TDD

I had pagers for years. For a while they were good until cell
coverage really improved. The biggest disadvantage of a pager was
that if you were out of range the message was lost forever. With a
cellphone if someone sends a message the system will keep it until
your handset registers itself on the network. Same is true of
voicemail. The pager carriers tried to address this with two way
pagers but it was too little too late.

My pager service has voice-mail. I have a greeting just
like an answering machine asking callers to leave a
message. It was transitioned to a digital pager some time
ago but I still have the voice-mail. When my pager goes
off and shows my number, I know I have a new message. If
I'm out of range, my messages are stored for three days
by the service. I simply call up and check my messages.
I prefer the setup I have and only turn on my cellphone
when I'm going to use it. I rarely give anyone my cellphone
number. I even have my VOIP forwarded to my pager.

TDD

The other serious problem with paging is that since there are almost no
customers left is the reliability of who is left. In my market there is
only one paging carrier left. That is Metrocall or whatever they are
called after 3 mergers and bankruptcies. According to my friend who
works for the local company that leases space to them the entire system
goes down frequently and they can't pay their bills so sometimes it
takes days to get someone in to fix it.

USA Mobility is the company I use and I'm not having any problems.
My service has changed hands several times in 25 years but keeps
beeping away.

TDD

On Apr 16, 3:19*pm, Pat wrote:
On Apr 16, 10:55*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Apr 15, 8:22*am, George wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:40 pm, metspitzer wrote:
When I bought my printer, I got it with a fax machine because I still
need it. *Many people will let me scan something and email it to them
to avoid a long distance call, but not everyone.

I called the bank today to dispute a direct draft charge to my
checking account. *The girl said she would fax me a form. *I asked her
if she could just email it to me. *She said....no sir, we can't do
that.

So I am waiting on a fax as we speak. *I only have one line so my fax
and voice share the same phone number.

Fax machines should have died 15 years ago. *They should at least give
them an email address.

It's all about the signature...

Sure, but there are lots of ways to do that aside from faxing a paper
document. Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia
or just pinching the pennies too much. Think about Fedex or UPS as an
example. 15 years ago the driver handed you a clipboard and indicted
what line you needed to sign. Now he hands you a computer and has you
sign on a screen with a stylus and minutes later your signature can be
viewed on their website.

We fax documents all the time. Documents are signed in our office by
our clients and ourselves and then faxed to insurance companies,
banks, lawyers, financial institutions, etc. Due to compliance
regulations, all documents get approved by one of a small number of
people and then faxed from one central fax machine. This fax machine
not only faxes the documents to the recipient, but it automagically
sends an image of the fax to a centralized storage server for
archiving purposes. The paper copy is also filed and eventually sent
off site for hard copy archiving.

To do this via e-mail or e-fax, we would have to set up a centralized
scanner, either networked to the PC's of the operations staff that
actually does the faxing, or attached directly to a centralized PC -
which would have to be set up with individual accounts for each person
in operations since compliance rules don't allow anybody to do
anything under a shared userid. The operation staff - not the most
tech savvy group around - would need to understand how to access the
documents, address them correctly (is it an e-mail or an e-fax?) and
then send them. They would also have to receive documents, print them
out and distribute them. Since we send and receive dozens of multiple-
page documents every day, there is way too much chance for errors.

Somehow a single machine with a simple numbered keypad just seems so
much simpler - read: idiot proof - for sending and receiving
documents.

Maybe that's why they've lasted so long.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lots of organizations are stuck in the past because of inertia or
just pinching the pennies too much

I just met with a client that is an RN in a pediatric practice. She
was saying that by law they are going to have to go paperless as far
as charts within 8 years. The expense to do this appears to be more
than this small practice can handle. I don't think that it is a "penny-
pinching" issue as much as there just isn't enough bottom line cash
available to cover the costs of the transition. They are discussing
salary cuts across the board - from the doctors to the receptionist -
and/or layoffs to cover the mandated costs.

Send this to your client and you might have a client-for-life.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236...65602347.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why doesn't this line instill any confidence in me?

"Sam's Club would be the one-stop contact for any physician follow-up
questions about the system. "

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:35:39 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Apr 14, 12:58*pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:39 -0500, wrote:
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

-- I usually just print out the paperwork, sign it, scan it into a
pdf, and email the pdf back.

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Scan
Step 4 - email

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Fax

But it could be....

Step 1 - Digitally stamp (or sign with graphic tablet) (or use a
mouse and MSPaint)
Step 2 - Email

(No trees were harmed in the making of this document)

This would also allow you to send the document to a specific person
instead of the department fax machine.

On Apr 17, 1:09*pm, metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:35:39 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03



wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:58*pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:39 -0500, wrote:
I scanned my signature and I paste it on word docs I Email. Nobody who
would take a fax has ever refused it. It is still not an original
document, no matter how you send it electronically.

-- I usually just print out the paperwork, sign it, scan it into a
pdf, and email the pdf back.

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Scan
Step 4 - email

Step 1 - Print
Step 2 - Sign
Step 3 - Fax

But it could be....

Step 1 - Digitally stamp *(or sign with graphic tablet) (or use a
mouse and MSPaint)
Step 2 - Email

(No trees were harmed in the making of this document)

This would also allow you to send the document to a specific person
instead of the department fax machine. *

"...send the document to a specific person instead of the
department fax machine. "

You gonna be there when my Compliance Officer comes storming into my
office after I circumvent the corporation's compliance regulations?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
You gonna be there when my Compliance Officer comes storming into my
office after I circumvent the corporation's compliance regulations?

*****************************

Thank you for reminding me why I never worked for a big corporation.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:48:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
You gonna be there when my Compliance Officer comes storming into my
office after I circumvent the corporation's compliance regulations?

*****************************

Thank you for reminding me why I never worked for a big corporation.
especially ficticious ones

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

You gonna be there when my Compliance Officer comes storming into my
office after I circumvent the corporation's compliance regulations?

Maybe. Is she an Amazonian dominatrix?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

You gonna be there when my Compliance Officer comes storming into my
office after I circumvent the corporation's compliance regulations?

Maybe. Is she an Amazonian dominatrix?

A small brown skinned woman with an attitude from
deep in the South American rainforest?

TDD