Hi,

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

Thanks,

Aaron

On 2/23/2009 10:56 AM Aaron Fude spake thus:

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

I don't think you really want, nor need, a "portable" saw, in the sense
of one that can easily be hauled to job sites. Any saw can be made to
roll around as you describe. I have a 9" Rockwell contractor's saw that
I put up on casters.

My preference: find a good used saw (Craigslist, used tool/building
material place, etc.). You'll get more saw for the money.

Things to look for:

1. Blade size: the biggah the bettah (but see #2). 10" is good.
2. Motor size: " " " " . Absolute minimum: 1 HP. 2 would be
better, but that starts getting expen$ive. A too-small motor will really
slow things down, especially ripping through heavy stock.
3. Stay far away from so-called "motorized" saws, where the motor drives
the blade directly (like a slightly souped-up skilsaw on a stand). You
want a belt drive. (Typical arbor speed = 3450 rpm.)
4. Stay far away from cheap aluminum tables. Cast iron is what you want.
5. A good (rip) fence is nice, but if the saw is missing it or has a
****ty one, you can get good aftermarket fences for *some* saws.
(Probably not for that 30-year-old Craftsman that's otherwise in great
shape.)


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

Thanks,

Aaron

Any saw can be mounted on a mobile base. For furniture, you don't want to
get a cheap saw. I'd highly recommend a mid sized saw such as commonly
known as a contractors saw. You get a large cast iron top, smooth and quiet
belt drive, and an accurate, easily set fence.

I have a Delta saw with Beisemeyer fence. I'd buy the same thing today, but
thee are others that can do the job for you. Jet has equivalent models.
The Ridgid is said to be good, General, and some of the Grizzly.

One big difference between a contractor saw and a benchtop is the table
size. The smaller saws are limited to the width that can be cross cut to a
few inches less than the big saws. In any case, you'll want to build a
simple detachable outfeed table too.

Get a good blade. Infinity, Ridge Carbide, or Forrest would be my picks in
that order.
http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1413
http://www.ridgecarbidetool.com/prod...100869a16a45cc

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

Thanks,

Aaron

Any saw can be mounted on a mobile base. For furniture, you don't want to
get a cheap saw. I'd highly recommend a mid sized saw such as commonly
known as a contractors saw. You get a large cast iron top, smooth and quiet
belt drive, and an accurate, easily set fence.

I have a Delta saw with Beisemeyer fence. I'd buy the same thing today, but
thee are others that can do the job for you. Jet has equivalent models.
The Ridgid is said to be good, General, and some of the Grizzly.

One big difference between a contractor saw and a benchtop is the table
size. The smaller saws are limited to the width that can be cross cut to a
few inches less than the big saws. In any case, you'll want to build a
simple detachable outfeed table too.

Get a good blade. Infinity, Ridge Carbide, or Forrest would be my picks in
that order.
http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1413
http://www.ridgecarbidetool.com/prod...100869a16a45cc


Yes, for furniture you need a "real" cabinet saw, not a portable
contractors saw, not that there is anything wrong with them, they are
just for a different type of work.

As an additional note, I'd suggest instead of looking to roll the saw
out of the way when you're not cutting you instead make a drop on
worktable top that can rest over the saw and provide an assembly /
finishing table. Let the heavy cabinet saw serve as the central
workspace.

On 2/23/2009 12:10 PM Pete C. spake thus:

As an additional note, I'd suggest instead of looking to roll the saw
out of the way when you're not cutting you instead make a drop on
worktable top that can rest over the saw and provide an assembly /
finishing table. Let the heavy cabinet saw serve as the central
workspace.

That's an interesting idea worth considering, but it may or may not work
in a particular workshop.

In my case, I need to be able to turn the saw 90°, one way for ripping
long stock, the other way for crosscutting same.

If you're considering using the saw on large panels (plywood, etc.),
that's a whole 'nother ball o'wax.

One other thing to consider: get a good roller stand so you can support
long pieces.

Lots of ways to arrange one's workspace. And a saw table does make a
nice work surface.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/23/2009 12:10 PM Pete C. spake thus:

As an additional note, I'd suggest instead of looking to roll the saw
out of the way when you're not cutting you instead make a drop on
worktable top that can rest over the saw and provide an assembly /
finishing table. Let the heavy cabinet saw serve as the central
workspace.

That's an interesting idea worth considering, but it may or may not work
in a particular workshop.

In my case, I need to be able to turn the saw 90°, one way for ripping
long stock, the other way for crosscutting same.

If you're considering using the saw on large panels (plywood, etc.),
that's a whole 'nother ball o'wax.

Sounds like a good excuse to buy/build a panel saw. You can even make a
vertical stock rack to fit between it and the wall. I'm considering
doing a similar setup here, though there won't be much wood in it, more
metal, lexan, FRP, etc.


One other thing to consider: get a good roller stand so you can support
long pieces.

An adjustable height worktable with a laminate top works well also. I
have one I made from a power adjustable base I scrounged, but you can
make one using a trailer jack as well.


Lots of ways to arrange one's workspace. And a saw table does make a
nice work surface.

The key is to protect the expensive saw table when using it as a work
surface. An add on top protects from dings, glue, poly, etc.

If you're going to be doing furniture, especially in a limited space, you
may want to consider a bandsaw over a tablesaw.

jc

"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

Thanks,

Aaron

Hi,

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

I have a one-stall space for my workshop, so I usually roll my saw out
onto the driveway for anything big. My buddy has a two-stall workshop
and a full-sized 240-volt monster that he also uses on the driveway--of
course in his case it's because his "workshop" is literally jammed full
to the ceiling with old scraps and piled tools.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

On 2/23/2009 1:11 PM Joe spake thus:

If you're going to be doing furniture, especially in a limited space, you
may want to consider a bandsaw over a tablesaw.

My vote would be for both. A tablesaw is far too useful not to have.
Besides just cutting, you can do rabbeting, dadoing, shaping, etc.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On 2/23/2009 10:56 AM Aaron Fude spake thus:

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw the
perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically the big
brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and miter gauge
(metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120. Fence needs a
little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/23/2009 10:56 AM Aaron Fude spake thus:

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw the
perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically the big
brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and miter gauge
(metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120. Fence needs a
little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a table
saw in CA?

On 2/23/2009 3:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw the
perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically the big
brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and miter gauge
(metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120. Fence needs a
little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a table
saw in CA?

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic school.
Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with goggles, ear
protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined apron. They have an
inspector go to your home and inspect your work area the first time you
use it to make sure it's CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then, they
cut the state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/23/2009 3:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw the
perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically the big
brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and miter gauge
(metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120. Fence needs a
little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a table
saw in CA?

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic school.
Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with goggles, ear
protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined apron. They have an
inspector go to your home and inspect your work area the first time you
use it to make sure it's CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then, they
cut the state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]

You forgot the surprise inspections to make sure you have all the safety
guards in place...

On 2/23/2009 5:49 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/23/2009 3:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a
table saw in CA?

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic
school. Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with
goggles, ear protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined
apron. They have an inspector go to your home and inspect your work
area the first time you use it to make sure it's
CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then, they cut the
state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]

You forgot the surprise inspections to make sure you have all the
safety guards in place...

Heh. Now the topic's starting to drift; might as well go with it.

So question is, how many of you run your table saw with a guard in place?

I've *never* used one. Yeah, I know; I've seen all the photos of the guy
cutting with the guard down, and all the admonitions to use it.

Supposedly they're safer. However, I've never even nicked myself on a
table saw [knocks on wood here]. I'm just super-careful. Also have never
had a bad kickback. Seems to me the guard would just make for more
frustration trying to work around it with push sticks and such.

A featherboard, on the other hand, does seem like it might be a good
thing to use for ripping to prevent kickbacks. But like I say, I've
never had one. Yet.

I think if I used a big shaper or a jointer I'd like to have a guard in
place over that big hunk of spinning carbide ...


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/23/2009 10:56 AM Aaron Fude spake thus:

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a
garage so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that
pretty much narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would
you recommend to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw the
perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically the
big brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and miter
gauge (metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120. Fence
needs a little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Why would anyone buy a table saw in Berkeley? You can check one out of the
library (and post hole diggers, power drills, scaffolding, concrete mixers,
Phillips screwdrivers, whatever).

On 2/23/2009 6:23 PM HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Why would anyone buy a table saw in Berkeley? You can check one out of the
library (and post hole diggers, power drills, scaffolding, concrete mixers,
Phillips screwdrivers, whatever).

Good point; Berkeley does have an excellent tool lending library,
including table saws. (I use the Oakland one near me, which also has them.)

But it's still a nice tool to have one of your own. Besides, the tool
library ones are kinda small.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
So question is, how many of you run your table saw with a guard in place?

I've *never* used one. Yeah, I know; I've seen all the photos of the guy
cutting with the guard down, and all the admonitions to use it.

Supposedly they're safer. However, I've never even nicked myself on a
table saw [knocks on wood here]. I'm just super-careful. Also have never
had a bad kickback. Seems to me the guard would just make for more
frustration trying to work around it with push sticks and such.

A featherboard, on the other hand, does seem like it might be a good thing
to use for ripping to prevent kickbacks. But like I say, I've never had
one. Yet.

I use mine just about all the time. I don't find it to be inconvenient and
the pawls can help prevent a kickback. I also use a magnetic featherboard
for most ripping. I don't look at it as a safety feature, but as a help
with accuracy to keep the wood from drifting at all.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
So question is, how many of you run your table saw with a guard in place?

I've *never* used one. Yeah, I know; I've seen all the photos of the guy
cutting with the guard down, and all the admonitions to use it.

Supposedly they're safer. However, I've never even nicked myself on a
table saw [knocks on wood here]. I'm just super-careful. Also have never
had a bad kickback. Seems to me the guard would just make for more
frustration trying to work around it with push sticks and such.

A featherboard, on the other hand, does seem like it might be a good thing
to use for ripping to prevent kickbacks. But like I say, I've never had
one. Yet.

I use mine just about all the time. I don't find it to be inconvenient and
the pawls can help prevent a kickback. I also use a magnetic featherboard
for most ripping. I don't look at it as a safety feature, but as a help
with accuracy to keep the wood from drifting at all.

I use featherboards when appropriate to aid in precision cuts. The
splitter/guard for my saw is sitting on a shelf still in it's original
plastic wrap. It isn't even possible to use it with at least 75% of the
cuts I do. As for kickback, I am always careful to stand to the side and
out of the line of fire. I did once have a kickback launch a piece
across the shop, but since I was to the side I was safe.

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

On 2/23/2009 3:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw
the perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically
the big brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and
miter gauge (metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120.
Fence needs a little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a
table saw in CA?

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic school.
Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with goggles, ear
protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined apron. They have
an inspector go to your home and inspect your work area the first time
you use it to make sure it's CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then,
they cut the state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]



Is that for real or am I just being Duhh to a joke?!

On 2/23/2009 9:12 PM Red Green spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic
school. Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with
goggles, ear protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined
apron. They have an inspector go to your home and inspect your work
area the first time you use it to make sure it's
CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then, they cut the
state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]

Is that for real or am I just being Duhh to a joke?!

Do I *really* need to use smiley faces?


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:

So question is, how many of you run your table saw with a guard in
place?

I did. For about 2 days.

The only thing I use are push sticks for narrow stuff. Those and an
adjustable, fence mounted strip of Lexan that serves as a hold down and
(minorly) hold in.

When I was using a radial saw I used featherboards a lot but find they are
hard to use on my cabinet saw due to the webbed bottom table surface (hard
to clamp to).

I do mean to rig a splitter for my zero inserts. Someday.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/23/2009 6:23 PM HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Why would anyone buy a table saw in Berkeley? You can check one out
of the library (and post hole diggers, power drills, scaffolding,
concrete mixers, Phillips screwdrivers, whatever).

Good point; Berkeley does have an excellent tool lending library,
including table saws. (I use the Oakland one near me, which also has
them.)
But it's still a nice tool to have one of your own. Besides, the tool
library ones are kinda small.

And, as a result, there are probably no tool rental shops in Berkeley. I
suspect that other enterprises on the list include party rentals (a local
organization here once had to rent 2,000 folding chairs), trailer rentals
(i.e., U-Haul), and limousine rentals (even pink models for gay weddings).

In my view, destroying private enterprise so (the remaining) taxpayers can
fund things like this is, well..., provide your own description.

"Pete C." wrote in
ster.com:


Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
So question is, how many of you run your table saw with a guard in
place?

I've *never* used one. Yeah, I know; I've seen all the photos of
the guy cutting with the guard down, and all the admonitions to use
it.

Supposedly they're safer. However, I've never even nicked myself on
a table saw [knocks on wood here]. I'm just super-careful. Also
have never had a bad kickback. Seems to me the guard would just
make for more frustration trying to work around it with push sticks
and such.

A featherboard, on the other hand, does seem like it might be a
good thing to use for ripping to prevent kickbacks. But like I say,
I've never had one. Yet.

I use mine just about all the time. I don't find it to be
inconvenient and the pawls can help prevent a kickback. I also use a
magnetic featherboard for most ripping. I don't look at it as a
safety feature, but as a help with accuracy to keep the wood from
drifting at all.

I use featherboards when appropriate to aid in precision cuts. The
splitter/guard for my saw is sitting on a shelf still in it's original
plastic wrap. It isn't even possible to use it with at least 75% of
the cuts I do. As for kickback, I am always careful to stand to the
side and out of the line of fire. I did once have a kickback launch a
piece across the shop, but since I was to the side I was safe.


It's NOT "safe" launching pieces of wood across your shop....

since wood can "move" or twist while being cut,a splitter keeps the blade
from binding in the kerf.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Is that for real or am I just being Duhh to a joke?!

Do I *really* need to use smiley faces?

No. I, for example, have never used an emoticon.

Emoticons are for inarticulate ****ers.

Jim Yanik wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
ster.com:


Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
So question is, how many of you run your table saw with a guard in
place?

I've *never* used one. Yeah, I know; I've seen all the photos of
the guy cutting with the guard down, and all the admonitions to use
it.

Supposedly they're safer. However, I've never even nicked myself on
a table saw [knocks on wood here]. I'm just super-careful. Also
have never had a bad kickback. Seems to me the guard would just
make for more frustration trying to work around it with push sticks
and such.

A featherboard, on the other hand, does seem like it might be a
good thing to use for ripping to prevent kickbacks. But like I say,
I've never had one. Yet.

I use mine just about all the time. I don't find it to be
inconvenient and the pawls can help prevent a kickback. I also use a
magnetic featherboard for most ripping. I don't look at it as a
safety feature, but as a help with accuracy to keep the wood from
drifting at all.

I use featherboards when appropriate to aid in precision cuts. The
splitter/guard for my saw is sitting on a shelf still in it's original
plastic wrap. It isn't even possible to use it with at least 75% of
the cuts I do. As for kickback, I am always careful to stand to the
side and out of the line of fire. I did once have a kickback launch a
piece across the shop, but since I was to the side I was safe.


It's NOT "safe" launching pieces of wood across your shop....

I said I was safe.


since wood can "move" or twist while being cut,a splitter keeps the blade
from binding in the kerf.

Splitters only work on through cuts. Metal and plastics also tend not to
twist. The last task I did on the table saw was slotting 3/4 depth in 1"
square 14ga steel tube with an abrasive blade.

On 2/24/2009 4:36 AM HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/23/2009 6:23 PM HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Why would anyone buy a table saw in Berkeley? You can check one out
of the library (and post hole diggers, power drills, scaffolding,
concrete mixers, Phillips screwdrivers, whatever).

Good point; Berkeley does have an excellent tool lending library,
including table saws. (I use the Oakland one near me, which also has
them.)
But it's still a nice tool to have one of your own. Besides, the tool
library ones are kinda small.

And, as a result, there are probably no tool rental shops in Berkeley.

Not true; they have a Hertz and a Big 4 Rents, both of which rent tools
and equipment. And there's a very good, cheap rental place for tools
(Cresco) not far away in Montclair. (I prefer the Cresco out by the
Oakland airport.)

So no, contrary to your apparently hyper-libertarian fears, the Berkeley
Tool Lending Library has *not* destroyed private entreprise nearby.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

Pete C. wrote:

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a
table saw in CA?

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic school.
Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with goggles, ear
protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined apron. They
have an inspector go to your home and inspect your work area the
first time you use it to make sure it's CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then,
and only then, they cut the state-installed safety seal on the power
switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]

You forgot the surprise inspections to make sure you have all the
safety guards in place...

Don't forget the oath/solemn affirmation to only use wood from trees that
volunteered to be cut down....

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Good point; Berkeley does have an excellent tool lending library,
including table saws. (I use the Oakland one near me, which also has
them.)
But it's still a nice tool to have one of your own. Besides, the
tool library ones are kinda small.

And, as a result, there are probably no tool rental shops in
Berkeley.

Not true; they have a Hertz and a Big 4 Rents, both of which rent
tools and equipment. And there's a very good, cheap rental place for
tools (Cresco) not far away in Montclair. (I prefer the Cresco out by
the Oakland airport.)

So no, contrary to your apparently hyper-libertarian fears, the
Berkeley Tool Lending Library has *not* destroyed private entreprise
nearby.

Hard to believe considering how public libraries invariably put all the
bookstore out of business.

No emoticon, but yeah, that was sarcasm.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/23/2009 10:56 AM Aaron Fude spake thus:

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw the
perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically the big
brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and miter gauge
(metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120. Fence needs a
little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a table
saw in CA?

Not if you are buddys with the county supervisor.

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

On 2/23/2009 3:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

I just got back from my favorite recycled-goods store where I saw
the perfect saw for you: a Rockwell 10" contractor's saw, basically
the big brother to my saw, with a 1-1/2 horse motor. With fence and
miter gauge (metal yet, better than my plastic one), all for $120.
Fence needs a little work, but mine did too.

You don't happen to be anywhere near Berkeley, do you?

Don't you need to take a 30 day course and get a license to buy a
table saw in CA?

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic school.
Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with goggles, ear
protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined apron. They have
an inspector go to your home and inspect your work area the first time
you use it to make sure it's CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then,
they cut the state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]



Is that for real or am I just being Duhh to a joke?!

I'm sure it was meant as a joke, but hey, this is California. Everything is
illegal.

DGDevin wrote:

So no, contrary to your apparently hyper-libertarian fears, the
Berkeley Tool Lending Library has *not* destroyed private entreprise
nearby.

Hard to believe considering how public libraries invariably put all
the bookstore out of business.

No emoticon, but yeah, that was sarcasm.

No, it was God's honest truth! My local branch has a rack of new
paperbacks - mostly historical romances - with the drill "return two, take
two." The library also has DVDs, video games, puppets, and art work to loan
out. So I go up to the counter:

Me: "Do you have the Congressional Record?"
Librarian: "No. It's available at the downtown branch."
Me: "Hmm. Do you have Marquis Who's Who?"
Librarian: "Not at this branch."
Me: "Okay, how about Encyclopedia Judaica?"
Librarian: " 'Fraid not. We can probably get you a volume."

Refusing to play the Monty Python Cheese Shop game, I came to the conclusion
that most libraries have long ago abrogated their traditional role as a
repository of information (even more-so now with the ubiquity of the
internet) and merely serve to replace small businesses with the
government-store.

So, then, the conclusion is that most libraries should be closed and the
money thereby saved should be used for something much more useful, such as
more municipal Christmas decorations.

David Nebenzahl wrote in news:49a39b5d$0$2696
:

On 2/23/2009 9:12 PM Red Green spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

Yeah, you gotta go to Power Tool school, kind of like traffic
school. Then they make you buy the compulsory Safety Kit, with
goggles, ear protectors, safety helmet, respirator and lead-lined
apron. They have an inspector go to your home and inspect your work
area the first time you use it to make sure it's
CAL-OSHA-compliant. Then, and only then, they cut the
state-installed safety seal on the power switch.

[This oughta keep all you "gummint is bad!" types happy]

Is that for real or am I just being Duhh to a joke?!

Do I *really* need to use smiley faces?



Well if it was any other state except California, no.

HeyBub wrote:

Refusing to play the Monty Python Cheese Shop game, I came to the
conclusion that most libraries have long ago abrogated their
traditional role as a repository of information (even more-so now
with the ubiquity of the internet) and merely serve to replace small
businesses with the government-store.

So, then, the conclusion is that most libraries should be closed and
the money thereby saved should be used for something much more
useful, such as more municipal Christmas decorations.

Our local library not only has a very good selection of books and
periodicals but I can order online anything they don't have and they'll get
it in for me from another branch. That hasn't stopped my wife and I from
enriching many local bookshops, our floor-to-ceiling bookcases are maxed-out
and we have thirty or forty boxes of books in storage. Considering how long
public libraries have been around it strikes me as absurd to believe they
harm retail booksellers. Bookstores might be a dying breed but libraries
are not the cause, if anything most people who spend time in libraries are
probably the best customers a bookstore owner could ask for.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:56:52 -0800 (PST), Aaron Fude
wrote:

Hi,

I don't mean to start a huge debate here, but I'm looking for a good
table saw to make furniture. My limitation is that I get half a garage
so I'm limited to a saw that can roll away. I think that pretty much
narrows it down to a few saws. Among those, which would you recommend
to an amatuer but serious furniture maker.

Thanks,

Aaron


Grizzley 1023 is a very good buy for the money. Get a set of wheels
for it--several brands are available. If money is no object and you
only want to buy ONE saw in your lifetime, get a General 350 or PM
2000. The fence is important. You get a smoother running machine
with 220v and with more weight. Not every saw can balance a nickel on
edge on startup. Get a Woodworker II blade, $100. Take care of the
table top.