"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities
and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining
that it is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000
volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the
charity Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and
mysterious skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...


It would be funny if it was not so sad. I often wonder how well built the
houses are on Extreme Makeover. It may be possible to build a house in 7
days, but that does not mean it is smart to do so. It takes time to install
plumbing systems, etc, no matter how many people.

10,000 volunteers is just to many to manage over 17 days.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

It would be funny if it was not so sad. I often wonder how well built the
houses are on Extreme Makeover. It may be possible to build a house in 7
days, but that does not mean it is smart to do so. It takes time to
install plumbing systems, etc, no matter how many people.

10,000 volunteers is just to many to manage over 17 days.

I have often wondered how well some of those quick rebuilds hold up. I
have seen some of the house flipping programs and in a week or two the whole
house has been rebuilt. Doesn't it take time for the plaster to dry before
painting ? Maybe more time for other things to setup such as the floor
tiles.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:18:35 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

I think that might be because part of the n'hood was built over a
trash dump, which seems in one case to be immediately below a kitchen.

OTOH, I don't see how one bad set of 86 homes, now matter how bad it
was (and the article says some people say they're ok) could "challenge
the bedrock philosophy behind Habitat for Humanity, claiming that
using volunteers, rather than professional builders, is causing as
many problems as it solves." You would need a lot more valid
complaints spread out over a lot more projects to even start to do
this.

On Jan 3, 10:18*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icas/article54...

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

Habitat is negligent and did not give them their food, work, free
medical, clean the houses, take out the garbage, shower the kids, give
them a car, camera and playstation.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:18:35 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

Is this more of the '2 nations divided by a common language'? To
me they just said Carter built the whole damn thing hisself-- then
they say there were 10000 volunteers.


"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece


Here's another story on it from June 2007.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/us/17habitat.html

3 comments--
1. Friggin' Florida. Does this sound a bit political;
"April Charney, a lawyer representing many of the 85 homeowners in
Fairway Oaks, said she had no problems taking on Habitat for Humanity,
despite its status as a 'darling of liberal social activists.' "

2. Diennal Fields sums it up nicely-
"Some residents dismiss their neighbours’ worries. Diennal Fields, 51,
said people did not know how to look after their homes: “It’s simple
stuff: if there is mildew, don’t get a lawyer, get a bottle of
bleach.”

3. To round some numbers off-- 100 homes built 8 yrs ago have 100
complaints brought to the builder & a couple were unresolvable. Is
that a bad record? [I don't know- I've never gotten involved in
mass-produced housing]

For the rest of the folks they are living in $90K houses with a
mortgage/insurance 'burden' of $300/month.

That sounds like a success to me.

People are involved so it ain't perfect. But it sure beats any
government program I can think of.

Jim

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood
celebrities and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president,
are complaining that it is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000
volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized
by the charity Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and
mysterious skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the
cockroaches...

It would be funny if it was not so sad. I often wonder how well
built the houses are on Extreme Makeover. It may be possible to build
a house in 7 days, but that does not mean it is smart to do so. It
takes time to install plumbing systems, etc, no matter how many
people.
10,000 volunteers is just to many to manage over 17 days.

Heh!

I was once invited to invest in a sand pit. The promoter said there would
not be a proft, but there would be a huge tax benefits. Here's how the
scheme worked:

1. As sand was sold from the sand pit, investors had a tangible asset that
could be depreciated (the sand).
2. When the sand was exhausted, investors now had a big, honkin' hole in the
ground. The company could charge folks to dump stuff in the hole (concrete,
tree stumps, etc.). This asset (the hole) could now be depreciated as the
asset was used up by people dumping stuff.
3. When the hole was almost filled, the site would be covered with topsoil
and sold to a developer as a low-cost housing site.

I passed and invested my money in swamp reclamation - displaced alligators
don't sue.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

It would be funny if it was not so sad. I often wonder how well built
the houses are on Extreme Makeover. It may be possible to build a house
in 7 days, but that does not mean it is smart to do so. It takes time to
install plumbing systems, etc, no matter how many people.

I have often wondered how well some of those quick rebuilds hold up. I
have seen some of the house flipping programs and in a week or two the
whole house has been rebuilt. Doesn't it take time for the plaster to dry
before painting ? Maybe more time for other things to setup such as the
floor tiles.



I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or "Builder/Remodeler
Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper that
had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many shortcuts
being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.

"Colbyt" wrote in message

I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.

Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in a
week is too fast for me.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:


"Colbyt" wrote in message

I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.

Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds
and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in
a week is too fast for me.
I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

HeyBub wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

And, here I thought Jimmy's only competence was in hammering nails

On Jan 4, 1:18*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icas/article54...

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

There's probably some truth both ways?

Houses built fast and probably fairly cheaply and by volunteers who
are willing don't always know what they are doing! But under Habitat
for Humanity people who otherwise would 'never' own a house; even a
run down older one get a new home.

But they may be occupied by people who either and/or don't have the
income or the common know- how or incentive to look after their own
house. We have had examples here of identical and good quality housing
just a few units apart in same residential area being in opposite
condition.

For example unit A. Occupied by a widow lady, low income is
immaculate, it's dry, not dusty and everything inside is well cared
for. There is very little maintenance required; besides the widow
there is one daughter who works part time and also attends school and
AFIK a son. Three people. Residence was 'nice' there were a few
flowering plants growing etc.

Unit B. just down the street is a different matter. An identical unit.
The siding and outside wall adjacent to their kitchen had rotted out.
Apparently due to water spillage and not using the exhaust fan while
cooking. The front door had been damaged and didn't fit correctly and
so on. The whole place was damp! There was extensive minor damage to
walls, door handles bathroom fixtures etc. Clothes were being dried in
basement area without ventilation. Place was a mess, tin cans parts of
a car out front etc. basically all the makings of a slum. Same number
of occupants one of whom was 'said' to drink a bit?

And these people unlike the rest of us don't even have to fix stuff
themselves! Some are low income, some on 'welfare' or disability etc.
etc.

A report, initially critical of the authority responsible, concluded
that it was 'Life style' that caused the problems reported in the
press. For example: If the people in unit B didn't have the gumption
to run a fan or open a window for ventilation while boiling stuff on
the stove for hours .................. !

So while the comment does sound very political and critical; "Oh look
at those do-gooders; falling down on the job and possibly not allowing
unionised workers (or cheap migrant workers?) a chance to
work ................ etc. ". and there may be grain of truth in
poorly and quickly built problems; let's be more generous.

Since 1960 we've persoanlly built homes twice without mortgages and it
takes time, effort, sweat equity, living without certain things, at
least for a while, making mistakes (Wish I'd done it that way. Oh
well!), fixing some mistakes, but overall providing your family with a
safe and comfortable home. Family grown up and gone now; but what a
sense of achievement!

'Be it ever so humble and so forth ...... ".all the best to everyone
for 2009. Could be a difficult year or two; so live careful and
economically.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 23:39:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities
and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining
that it is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000
volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the
charity Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and
mysterious skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...


It would be funny if it was not so sad. I often wonder how well built the
houses are on Extreme Makeover. It may be possible to build a house in 7
days, but that does not mean it is smart to do so. It takes time to install
plumbing systems, etc, no matter how many people.

10,000 volunteers is just to many to manage over 17 days.

The Habitat houses in our area are very well built - with perhaps
fewer deficiencies than many "pro-built" homes. There are always well
qualified supervisors making sure it is done right.
The fact that the majority of these homes go to low-income families
who have in most cases never owned a home or lived in one for more
than a few years at a time means there is often a lower level of
maintenance on some of them. That said, the pride of ownership shown
by many Habitat home recipients in our area is incredible.

Also, building on Florida swampland almost guarantees cockroaches and
mildew.
I've been in "high class " hotels in Florida where the coackroaches
would almost carry your luggage out for you.

On Jan 3, 10:18*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icas/article54...

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

I would think the residents are culpable too. Maybe HFH has the
deepest pockets, but if your motis operandi is to have the home owners
contribute sweat equity, then those homeowners must also share in the
liability of shoddy construction. Insulating the homeowners from all
liability is not right, mildew, roaches and skin rashes can easily be
due to poor maintenance as well as construction. I've volunteered for
two HFH projects, not to feel good, but simply because my employer
solicited volunteers and I like to build stuff while drinking a beer
in the sun. Personally I feel my yearly contribution to United Way
did more than those weekends and cost me much less. The projects were
managed well enough, but the women being housed didn't have a clue
about home ownership and the responsibilities involved down the road,
having lived in public housing. The houses were very bland vinyl-
sided frame units not much stronger than if you parked a row of double-
wide mobile homes there. That community today is deteriorating, sadly
due more to the lack of responsible men than shoddy construction.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:06:34 -0800, evodawg wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:


"Colbyt" wrote in message

I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.

Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds
and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in
a week is too fast for me.
I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.

Watched a house that was being built just around the corner in a gated
community. They used concrete block, had all the re-bar in place, and set
before continuing with more concrete block layers and more re-bar. House
was built next to the gate to be a showcase model home. Put the roof
trusses in place and decked for shingles. This took weeks to achieve.

One day they tore the house down to the ground. Inspectors found out
that they had used reclaimed water that is available in the neighborhood in
the mortar. Not a block was able to be salvaged. Trusses and decking in
the dumpster. Licensed builder. Non-Native masons and laborers.

Broke my heart, I could have used some of that plywood in the dumpster to
make hurricane shutters for my house at the time with permission to
salvage it from the dumpster. Foreman was there while I worked and locked
the gate to protect the construction site from copper miners that were
notorious as air conditioner thieves at the time.

Most of these homes IF they actually have problems, is most likely cause by
lack of proper maintenance. These type homes are given or sold at a low
price to lo-life type people who think it's a maintenance free palace. They
never do anything to prevent the alledged problems they are now reporting.

s


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities
and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining
that it is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000
volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the
charity Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and
mysterious skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

evodawg wrote:

I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement
walls that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it
takes me a couple of days to get one out to look at my work.

Clearly a lot of things happen behind the scenes on EMHE, like permits being
obtained, inspectors being on tap, supplies ordered and so on long before
the cameras are ever turned on. I'm also certain that when Ty Pennington
first yells through his bullhorn that the family already knows what's
happening, otherwise why is it occasionally possible to see wireless mic
packs under their clothing as they tumble out of the house in supposed
surprise?

Aside from the quality of the construction I've read of some lucky
recipients being unpleasantly surprised to realize their property tax bill
just multiplied by several times. I enjoy that show, but I'd like to see
them build fewer mansions and more projects to benefit the whole community.

RLM wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:06:34 -0800, evodawg wrote:



Ed Pawlowski wrote:



"Colbyt" wrote in message


I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.


Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds
and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in
a week is too fast for me.


I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.



Watched a house that was being built just around the corner in a gated
community. They used concrete block, had all the re-bar in place, and set
before continuing with more concrete block layers and more re-bar. House
was built next to the gate to be a showcase model home. Put the roof
trusses in place and decked for shingles. This took weeks to achieve.

One day they tore the house down to the ground. Inspectors found out
that they had used reclaimed water that is available in the neighborhood in
the mortar. Not a block was able to be salvaged. Trusses and decking in
the dumpster. Licensed builder. Non-Native masons and laborers.


Good grief! If reclaimed is good enough for watering the yard, it
should be okay for mortar. Where
was this?

Broke my heart, I could have used some of that plywood in the dumpster to
make hurricane shutters for my house at the time with permission to
salvage it from the dumpster. Foreman was there while I worked and locked
the gate to protect the construction site from copper miners that were
notorious as air conditioner thieves at the time.

Reason #3298 to not get inspectors involved....

s


"RLM" wrote in message
...

One day they tore the house down to the ground. Inspectors found out
that they had used reclaimed water that is available in the neighborhood
in
the mortar. Not a block was able to be salvaged. Trusses and decking in
the dumpster. Licensed builder. Non-Native masons and laborers.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:20:29 -0500, Norminn
wrote:

RLM wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:06:34 -0800, evodawg wrote:



Ed Pawlowski wrote:



"Colbyt" wrote in message


I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.


Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds
and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in
a week is too fast for me.


I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.



Watched a house that was being built just around the corner in a gated
community. They used concrete block, had all the re-bar in place, and set
before continuing with more concrete block layers and more re-bar. House
was built next to the gate to be a showcase model home. Put the roof
trusses in place and decked for shingles. This took weeks to achieve.

One day they tore the house down to the ground. Inspectors found out
that they had used reclaimed water that is available in the neighborhood in
the mortar. Not a block was able to be salvaged. Trusses and decking in
the dumpster. Licensed builder. Non-Native masons and laborers.


Good grief! If reclaimed is good enough for watering the yard, it
should be okay for mortar. Where
was this?

Broke my heart, I could have used some of that plywood in the dumpster to
make hurricane shutters for my house at the time with permission to
salvage it from the dumpster. Foreman was there while I worked and locked
the gate to protect the construction site from copper miners that were
notorious as air conditioner thieves at the time.



ANY organics in the water will ruin the mortar or concrete.

Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood
celebrities and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president,
are complaining that it is falling apart.

And, here I thought Jimmy's only competence was in hammering nails

Brother Jimmy is a better carpenter than he was a president, and was
fine at hammering nails. (And now in his dotage, he probably can't even
do that any more.) But while trained as an engineer, it wasn't in civil
engineering- if the people that set up the project were stupid enough to
put it on poorly drained uncompacted fill land, well, problems are
inevitable. You can't build in a swamp. (I have firsthand experience
with that, owning a house in Louisiana. Even on high ground, the climate
rots everything.) And pretty much everywhere in the far southland, bugs
and termites are everywhere.

But yes, the HforH houses are low-end at best, and even supervised
amateurs do make more mistakes than 'real' carpenters. But even a
low-end house can be made to last, as long as it is on solid ground, and
properly maintained. Part of the HforH process is that the recipients
have to put in sweat equity, on their own and other houses. Supposedly,
this also gives them the skill set to do basic upkeep down the road. Sad
to hear it didn't work out in this case. The HforH houses around here
seem to be doing okay, with few public complaints, and a very low
default rate.

I do agree with the others- I'd also be wary of a speed-record blitz
house. QC is an important part of the build process, and doing rework is
pretty hard if 3 more layers of building materials are covering the work.

--
aem sends....

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:20:29 -0500, Norminn wrote:

RLM wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:06:34 -0800, evodawg wrote:



Ed Pawlowski wrote:



"Colbyt" wrote in message


I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.


Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds
and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in
a week is too fast for me.


I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.



Watched a house that was being built just around the corner in a gated
community. They used concrete block, had all the re-bar in place, and set
before continuing with more concrete block layers and more re-bar. House
was built next to the gate to be a showcase model home. Put the roof
trusses in place and decked for shingles. This took weeks to achieve.

One day they tore the house down to the ground. Inspectors found out
that they had used reclaimed water that is available in the neighborhood in
the mortar. Not a block was able to be salvaged. Trusses and decking in
the dumpster. Licensed builder. Non-Native masons and laborers.


Good grief! If reclaimed is good enough for watering the yard, it
should be okay for mortar. Where
was this?

Pinellas County Florida


Broke my heart, I could have used some of that plywood in the dumpster to
make hurricane shutters for my house at the time with permission to
salvage it from the dumpster. Foreman was there while I worked and locked
the gate to protect the construction site from copper miners that were
notorious as air conditioner thieves at the time.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:42:21 -0500, clare wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:20:29 -0500, Norminn
wrote:

RLM wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:06:34 -0800, evodawg wrote:



Ed Pawlowski wrote:



"Colbyt" wrote in message


I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or
"Builder/Remodeler Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper
that had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many
shortcuts being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.


Your drapery hardware may have been holding the paper in place.

I can see where having a good plan and experienced people you can get
certain things done very fast. If you sweat a joint, it is only seconds
and
it is as set as it well ever be. Drywall mud, concrete, paint, tile
adhesives all take a little time to cure or set. A 3500 sq. ft. house in
a week is too fast for me.


I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.



Watched a house that was being built just around the corner in a gated
community. They used concrete block, had all the re-bar in place, and set
before continuing with more concrete block layers and more re-bar. House
was built next to the gate to be a showcase model home. Put the roof
trusses in place and decked for shingles. This took weeks to achieve.

One day they tore the house down to the ground. Inspectors found out
that they had used reclaimed water that is available in the neighborhood in
the mortar. Not a block was able to be salvaged. Trusses and decking in
the dumpster. Licensed builder. Non-Native masons and laborers.


Good grief! If reclaimed is good enough for watering the yard, it
should be okay for mortar. Where
was this?

Broke my heart, I could have used some of that plywood in the dumpster to
make hurricane shutters for my house at the time with permission to
salvage it from the dumpster. Foreman was there while I worked and locked
the gate to protect the construction site from copper miners that were
notorious as air conditioner thieves at the time.



ANY organics in the water will ruin the mortar or concrete.

I understood it to be salts that were used to purify it to reclaimed
statis. It may also have been organics. I never was much for playing in
mud.

When my wife was building houses they had two "habitat" homes the
national builder was sponsoring. The typical procedure was to have a
weekend with volunteers in there on TV, then most of the next week was
taken up by pro's fixing or simply ripping out and replacing all the
volunteer work. The real inspections took place after that (even if
they did have an inspector on TV talking about how great a job
"habitat" was doing).
Most of the value of the habitat program is in the amount of
professional labor and the materials that get donated. The volunteer
input is largely just for publicity. In a union state you will need a
paid journeyman shadowing every volunteer anyway.

As a crew chief for Habitat in my area, I see a good bit of work that
has to be redone. Our motto is, "We do it right the last time."

I'm supposed to train and supervise several groups of volunteers at the
job site. For example, I'll get some kids started painting siding on
racks in the back yard, a few people putting up siding, and some more
installing sub-fascia. My job is to constantly inspect their work to
make sure it's done right. If it's wrong, it's my fault, not the
volunteers'.

On my last house, a crew of men was putting up Hardi lap siding. They
had been told to leave no more than 1/8" gap at the ends. When I
checked, the first two rows looked OK, but I made them re-do the third,
because it had too big a gap on one end. When I came back again, I was
amazed how quickly they finished the wall. Then I figured out they were
fast because, though the right end looked great, the left end had gaps
I could put my thumb in. They had to tear it all off and do it over.

We do it right the last time.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

"evodawg" wrote in message
I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement
walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.

I did read that on Home Makeover they have an inspector on site all the time
for just that reason.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
Most of these homes IF they actually have problems, is most likely cause
by lack of proper maintenance. These type homes are given or sold at a
low price to lo-life type people who think it's a maintenance free palace.
They never do anything to prevent the alledged problems they are now
reporting.


Which just goes towards proving the tech support opinion that houses are
like computers.......

Some people are just too damn stupid to own them.


Colbyt

wrote:

The Habitat houses in our area are very well built - with perhaps
fewer deficiencies than many "pro-built" homes. There are always well
qualified supervisors making sure it is done right.
The fact that the majority of these homes go to low-income families
who have in most cases never owned a home or lived in one for more
than a few years at a time means there is often a lower level of
maintenance on some of them. That said, the pride of ownership shown
by many Habitat home recipients in our area is incredible.

Also, building on Florida swampland almost guarantees cockroaches and
mildew.
I've been in "high class " hotels in Florida where the coackroaches
would almost carry your luggage out for you.

Don't the Habitat home applicants have to agree to a set of conditions, one
of which is a seminar on home maintenance? If so, decay would seem to be a
matter of will rather than skill.

"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood
celebrities and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president,
are complaining that it is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000
volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by
the charity Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and
mysterious skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5439388.ece

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

That's what happens when particle board and wafer board are used in
house construction. I can't imagine why a lot of codes allow the damned
stuff - the second it gets moist, it's done for.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:44:39 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

Brother Jimmy is a better carpenter than he was a president, and was
fine at hammering nails.

He was a better peanut farmer! Do you know what "green" peanuts cost
now?

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:44:23 -0500, wrote:

Also, building on Florida swampland almost guarantees cockroaches and
mildew.

Walt Disney bought the best property, years ago.

I've been in "high class " hotels in Florida where the coackroaches
would almost carry your luggage out for you.

You can do the same thing in New Jersey, except the bed vibrates
without a quarter being inserted.

wrote:

I've been in "high class " hotels in Florida where the coackroaches
would almost carry your luggage out for you.

That is because South of the Frost Line where the ground never
Freezes", cockroaches are able to stay alive indefinitely.

Dick

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:42:07 +0000 (UTC), (Dick
Adams) wrote:

wrote:

I've been in "high class " hotels in Florida where the coackroaches
would almost carry your luggage out for you.

That is because South of the Frost Line where the ground never
Freezes", cockroaches are able to stay alive indefinitely.

Dick

I'm amazed how a cockroach lives in the Mojave Desert, but they do.
More than you can imagine. Don't feed them concrete.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:51:22 -0500, "Colbyt"
wrote:


"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
om...

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

It would be funny if it was not so sad. I often wonder how well built
the houses are on Extreme Makeover. It may be possible to build a house
in 7 days, but that does not mean it is smart to do so. It takes time to
install plumbing systems, etc, no matter how many people.

I have often wondered how well some of those quick rebuilds hold up. I
have seen some of the house flipping programs and in a week or two the
whole house has been rebuilt. Doesn't it take time for the plaster to dry
before painting ? Maybe more time for other things to setup such as the
floor tiles.



I have participated in more than one "Parade of Homes" or "Builder/Remodeler
Showcase" type of projects over the years.

Way to many people working too closely together to try and meet some
unrealistic deadline. I have installed drapery hardware over wall paper that
had only been on the wall for a literal minute. Witnessed so many shortcuts
being taken by others because of the need for speed.

My advice is to Never Ever buy one of those homes.



Haste makes waste !!!!

On Jan 3, 10:18*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and
hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it
is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers,
including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the charity
Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and mysterious
skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icas/article54...

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

Republicans.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:18Â*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities
and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining
that it is falling apart.

"Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000
volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day "blitz" organized by the
charity Habitat for Humanity.

"Eight years later it is better known for cockroaches, mildew and
mysterious skin rashes."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icas/article54...

I don't see how volunteers could be responsible for the cockroaches...

Republicans.

Oh yeah, its all their FAULT!!!

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.co.nr/

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"evodawg" wrote in message
I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement
walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.

I did read that on Home Makeover they have an inspector on site all the time
for just that reason.

Yeah, and I'm sure the inspector doesn't ever get pressure to
approve shoddy construction just to meet the show's shooting schedule.

That sounds about as ill-thought-out as the decision by some local
governments in Florida to allow developers to hire their own
inspectors, in order to save themselves time and the gov't money. I
wouldn't touch a house that passed inspection by the same company
that built it. Talk about a conflict of interest.

HellT

mm wrote:

OTOH, I don't see how one bad set of 86 homes, now matter how bad it
was (and the article says some people say they're ok) could "challenge
the bedrock philosophy behind Habitat for Humanity, claiming that
using volunteers, rather than professional builders, is causing as
many problems as it solves."

Especially since most of the 'professional builders' have been using
unskilled laborers to save themselves money while building shoddy
homes. Heck, a lot of the folks who've been building homes never
lived in houses with electricity or running water before coming to
the US, much less ever built them before. Hence all the
product-defect class action suits being filed against major
homebuilders in the past few years.

HellT

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:49:39 -0600, Hell Toupee
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"evodawg" wrote in message
I wonder how well set the concrete is on the foundations and basement
walls
that have been pored? Do they have an onsite inspector, geez it takes me a
couple of days to get one out to look at my work.

I did read that on Home Makeover they have an inspector on site all the time
for just that reason.

Yeah, and I'm sure the inspector doesn't ever get pressure to
approve shoddy construction just to meet the show's shooting schedule.

That sounds about as ill-thought-out as the decision by some local
governments in Florida to allow developers to hire their own
inspectors, in order to save themselves time and the gov't money. I
wouldn't touch a house that passed inspection by the same company
that built it. Talk about a conflict of interest.

HellT
You buy cars and TVs that way- furniture and appliances too. Even much
of your FOOD is inpected by inspectors employed by the packing
company.