I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none

gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
....
You got's a problem...

I have dialup so only loaded one of the pictures, but...

What's the pipe out of the ground?
Crawlspace?
Drainage?

I think you need a detailed inspection/evaluation by a foundation
specialist myself if you have any intentions of doing a permanent repair
other than purely cosmetic.

Obviously there is a failure below the foundation itself at this point
owing to some fundamental problem. Finding cause of and curing that
problem is the first step, then either raising the house (or at least
stabilizing it if aren't going to address the existing sag), then create
a stable sub-base and rebuild the foundation.

Looked at a house of roughly same vintage in VA once upon a
time--similarly, the owners had invested a ton of money in all the
cosmetic fixups and it looked wonderful--except the foundations were in
similar shape as this and the whole thing was going to have to be redone
to save it...

--

gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none



I only looked at the first pic, but I suspect the real answer to your
question is "call a foundation pro." I suspect that the real fix will
involve temporarily supporting that side of the house, demo'ing a
section of the foundation wall, pouring a new footing, and building a
new wall. Unless a vintage look is important to you I might suggest
using cinder block rather than stone, and maybe covering the outside
with a stone facing to make it look consistent from the street.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"gore" wrote in message
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a
mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back
in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay
in there. Any suggestions?

My suggestion is to get some advice from a pro. This is, after all, holding
up your house. A few bucks saved today can be costly in a few years if not
done properly. There may be other issues that we can't see.

dpb wrote:
gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk
and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the
previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards
(snip)
Obviously there is a failure below the foundation itself at this point
owing to some fundamental problem. Finding cause of and curing that
problem is the first step, then either raising the house (or at least
stabilizing it if aren't going to address the existing sag), then create
a stable sub-base and rebuild the foundation.

Looked at a house of roughly same vintage in VA once upon a
time--similarly, the owners had invested a ton of money in all the
cosmetic fixups and it looked wonderful--except the foundations were in
similar shape as this and the whole thing was going to have to be redone
to save it...

--

I saw several similar houses when I was house-shopping a couple 3 years
ago. Upstairs all remodeled and fancy, but go in the basement and see
2x6 joists, a forest of jackpoles, and dirt running down through the
cracks in the foundation. And the upstairs work was obviously done by a
pro. What sort of an idiot sticks lipstick on a pig like that? And this
wasn't mid-1800s houses, this was 1950s places.

Methinks banks should make people getting home improvement loans take a
class or pass a test or something, just so the bank has something to
repossess if needed. Something along the lines of 'Foundation, Framing,
Roof, HVAC/Plumbing/Wiring. Then, and only then, worry about the cosmetics.'

--
aem sends....

"gore" wrote in message
...
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and
has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to
compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and
noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this
has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar
and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I
am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had
any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no
means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the
stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather
than just lay in there. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none



Shane, it's time to stop fooling around with band-aids. You need major
surgery. Get some estimates from reputable contractors as to what it will
take and what it will cost to stop your house from sinking and the
foundation from falling apart. It might be a good idea to consult with an
engineer. Look for companies that specialize in restoration work.

John Grabowski wrote:
....
Shane, it's time to stop fooling around with band-aids. You need major
surgery. Get some estimates from reputable contractors ...

I was going to note "3 for 3", but it's now four...

--

aemeijers wrote:
....
Methinks banks should make people getting home improvement loans take a
class or pass a test or something, just so the bank has something to
repossess if needed. ...

They have the opportunity to inspect the dwelling and make any
requirements they desire prior to making the loan. If they choose to
not do their own due diligence don't see that as anybody's fault but
their own.

--

On May 4, 9:34*am, "gore" wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ductId=10391-2...

Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in
to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all
junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs
were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and
wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised
if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The
stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your
stone so it looks original. Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some
4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be
a big job. Post some of the interior.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On May 4, 9:34 am, "gore" wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and
has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to
compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping
is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a
mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in
where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ductId=10391-2...

Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in
to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all
junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs
were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and
wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised
if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The
stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your
stone so it looks original. Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some
4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be
a big job. Post some of the interior.

OK, I took some pics of the inside. When we purchased the house, the
previous owners told us that part was a crawl space and was dug out using a
shovel and 5 gallon buckets in the 1940's. So its about 6' deep and there is
about a 3 - 4 ft. cement ledge that is about 3 feet high inside the
basement. The span is probably 24 ft.What sucks for me is the previous
owners did replace the stone with block on the front of the house and the
side of the house, but left the stone in the back of the house. The beam at
the top of the stone looks like about a 6x6.
Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ound/floor.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top3.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2..._hound/top.jpg

On May 4, 12:46*pm, "gore" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...
On May 4, 9:34 am, "gore" wrote:





I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and
has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to
compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping
is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a
mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in
where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ation2.jpghttp.......

Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in
to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all
junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs
were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and
wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised
if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The
stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your
stone so it looks original. *Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some
4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be
a big job. Post some of the interior.

OK, I took some pics of the inside. When we purchased the house, the
previous owners told us that part was a crawl space and was dug out using a
shovel and 5 gallon buckets in the 1940's. So its about 6' deep and there is
about a 3 - 4 ft. cement ledge that is about 3 feet high inside the
basement. The span is probably 24 ft.What sucks for me is the previous
owners did replace the stone with block on the front of the house and the
side of the house, but left the stone in the back of the house. The beam at
the top of the stone looks like about a 6x6.
Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top.jpg- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The inside isnt as bad but the discolored dark area is probably from
water from bad mortar , Its likely mold. You just cant take old moldy
stone and put mortar on it it has to be cleaned, you need a few pros
out to bid on it

gore wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message
...
On May 4, 9:34 am, "gore" wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk
and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the
previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards
wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and
noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like
this has been a trouble spot before because there are different
types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links
to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any
better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no
means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in
where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in
there. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ductId=10391-2...

Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in
to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all
junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs
were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and
wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised
if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The
stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your
stone so it looks original. Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some
4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be
a big job. Post some of the interior.

OK, I took some pics of the inside. When we purchased the house, the
previous owners told us that part was a crawl space and was dug out
using a shovel and 5 gallon buckets in the 1940's. So its about 6'
deep and there is about a 3 - 4 ft. cement ledge that is about 3 feet
high inside the basement. The span is probably 24 ft.What sucks for
me is the previous owners did replace the stone with block on the
front of the house and the side of the house, but left the stone in
the back of the house. The beam at the top of the stone looks like
about a 6x6. Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ound/floor.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top3.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2..._hound/top.jpg

I share other posters concern. This is not a cosmetic issue. get a
pro in. Is it possible there's a sewer/ mains water pipe entering the
building that may be leaking? From what you have said about other parts of
the building I guess that it is a lack of proper footings, though.

gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

I've read the whole thread, and looked at the pictures, and I'll join
the chorus here- that foundation is past any hope of spot repairs. It is
definitely not a DIY project. Short version- get a house moving company
in to support the place on jacks and cribbing, and get a foundation
contractor in there to demo those piles of rock loosely glued together,
clean up and square up the basement hole, and put in proper
footings/drainage and a modern foundation. Yes, it can be skinned with
the old fieldstone to may it look correct. Once the house is set back on
the new foundation, you can then figure out how to support the center
beam, and maybe pour a slab down there.

Hope your cashflow is good and your loan officer likes you- it ain't
gonna be cheap.

--
aem sends...

gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous
owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate
for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a
section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a
trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement
from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is
what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better
ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason,
and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where
they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Shane

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none


Contact Les Fossel at

http://www.oldhouserestoration.com/

he might be willing and able to help.