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stone foundation falling out
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has
been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none |
stone foundation falling out
gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. .... You got's a problem... :) I have dialup so only loaded one of the pictures, but... What's the pipe out of the ground? Crawlspace? Drainage? I think you need a detailed inspection/evaluation by a foundation specialist myself if you have any intentions of doing a permanent repair other than purely cosmetic. Obviously there is a failure below the foundation itself at this point owing to some fundamental problem. Finding cause of and curing that problem is the first step, then either raising the house (or at least stabilizing it if aren't going to address the existing sag), then create a stable sub-base and rebuild the foundation. Looked at a house of roughly same vintage in VA once upon a time--similarly, the owners had invested a ton of money in all the cosmetic fixups and it looked wonderful--except the foundations were in similar shape as this and the whole thing was going to have to be redone to save it... :( -- |
stone foundation falling out
gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none I only looked at the first pic, but I suspect the real answer to your question is "call a foundation pro." I suspect that the real fix will involve temporarily supporting that side of the house, demo'ing a section of the foundation wall, pouring a new footing, and building a new wall. Unless a vintage look is important to you I might suggest using cinder block rather than stone, and maybe covering the outside with a stone facing to make it look consistent from the street. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
stone foundation falling out
"gore" wrote in message ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? My suggestion is to get some advice from a pro. This is, after all, holding up your house. A few bucks saved today can be costly in a few years if not done properly. There may be other issues that we can't see. |
stone foundation falling out
dpb wrote:
gore wrote: I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards (snip) Obviously there is a failure below the foundation itself at this point owing to some fundamental problem. Finding cause of and curing that problem is the first step, then either raising the house (or at least stabilizing it if aren't going to address the existing sag), then create a stable sub-base and rebuild the foundation. Looked at a house of roughly same vintage in VA once upon a time--similarly, the owners had invested a ton of money in all the cosmetic fixups and it looked wonderful--except the foundations were in similar shape as this and the whole thing was going to have to be redone to save it... :( -- I saw several similar houses when I was house-shopping a couple 3 years ago. Upstairs all remodeled and fancy, but go in the basement and see 2x6 joists, a forest of jackpoles, and dirt running down through the cracks in the foundation. And the upstairs work was obviously done by a pro. What sort of an idiot sticks lipstick on a pig like that? And this wasn't mid-1800s houses, this was 1950s places. Methinks banks should make people getting home improvement loans take a class or pass a test or something, just so the bank has something to repossess if needed. Something along the lines of 'Foundation, Framing, Roof, HVAC/Plumbing/Wiring. Then, and only then, worry about the cosmetics.' -- aem sends.... |
stone foundation falling out
"gore" wrote in message ... I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none Shane, it's time to stop fooling around with band-aids. You need major surgery. Get some estimates from reputable contractors as to what it will take and what it will cost to stop your house from sinking and the foundation from falling apart. It might be a good idea to consult with an engineer. Look for companies that specialize in restoration work. |
stone foundation falling out
John Grabowski wrote:
.... Shane, it's time to stop fooling around with band-aids. You need major surgery. Get some estimates from reputable contractors ... I was going to note "3 for 3", but it's now four... :) -- |
stone foundation falling out
aemeijers wrote:
.... Methinks banks should make people getting home improvement loans take a class or pass a test or something, just so the bank has something to repossess if needed. ... They have the opportunity to inspect the dwelling and make any requirements they desire prior to making the loan. If they choose to not do their own due diligence don't see that as anybody's fault but their own. -- |
stone foundation falling out
On May 4, 9:34*am, "gore" wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ductId=10391-2... Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your stone so it looks original. Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some 4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be a big job. Post some of the interior. |
stone foundation falling out
"ransley" wrote in message ... On May 4, 9:34 am, "gore" wrote: I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ductId=10391-2... Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your stone so it looks original. Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some 4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be a big job. Post some of the interior. OK, I took some pics of the inside. When we purchased the house, the previous owners told us that part was a crawl space and was dug out using a shovel and 5 gallon buckets in the 1940's. So its about 6' deep and there is about a 3 - 4 ft. cement ledge that is about 3 feet high inside the basement. The span is probably 24 ft.What sucks for me is the previous owners did replace the stone with block on the front of the house and the side of the house, but left the stone in the back of the house. The beam at the top of the stone looks like about a 6x6. Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ound/floor.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top3.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top2.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2..._hound/top.jpg |
stone foundation falling out
On May 4, 12:46*pm, "gore" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message ... On May 4, 9:34 am, "gore" wrote: I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ation2.jpghttp....... Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your stone so it looks original. *Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some 4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be a big job. Post some of the interior. OK, I took some pics of the inside. When we purchased the house, the previous owners told us that part was a crawl space and was dug out using a shovel and 5 gallon buckets in the 1940's. So its about 6' deep and there is about a 3 - 4 ft. cement ledge that is about 3 feet high inside the basement. The span is probably 24 ft.What sucks for me is the previous owners did replace the stone with block on the front of the house and the side of the house, but left the stone in the back of the house. The beam at the top of the stone looks like about a 6x6. Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top.jpg- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The inside isnt as bad but the discolored dark area is probably from water from bad mortar , Its likely mold. You just cant take old moldy stone and put mortar on it it has to be cleaned, you need a few pros out to bid on it |
stone foundation falling out
gore wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message ... On May 4, 9:34 am, "gore" wrote: I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ductId=10391-2... Its good the pics were fairly high resolution, I was able to zoom in to see more. It looks like as you said its all stone. Its probably all junk and only sand is left, the portland cement is gone. Past repairs were hack work. It should be supported now inside with screw jacks and wood under and above, so it doesnt collaps more , and actualy raised if its sinking, its something you can do that is raised over time. The stone should come out and probably use block and reface it with your stone so it looks original. Go buy about 6 -20$ screw jacks and some 4x4 and support the corner, You may not have a footer and it could be a big job. Post some of the interior. OK, I took some pics of the inside. When we purchased the house, the previous owners told us that part was a crawl space and was dug out using a shovel and 5 gallon buckets in the 1940's. So its about 6' deep and there is about a 3 - 4 ft. cement ledge that is about 3 feet high inside the basement. The span is probably 24 ft.What sucks for me is the previous owners did replace the stone with block on the front of the house and the side of the house, but left the stone in the back of the house. The beam at the top of the stone looks like about a 6x6. Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ound/floor.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top3.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hound/top2.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2..._hound/top.jpg I share other posters concern. This is not a cosmetic issue. get a pro in. Is it possible there's a sewer/ mains water pipe entering the building that may be leaking? From what you have said about other parts of the building I guess that it is a lack of proper footings, though. |
stone foundation falling out
gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? I've read the whole thread, and looked at the pictures, and I'll join the chorus here- that foundation is past any hope of spot repairs. It is definitely not a DIY project. Short version- get a house moving company in to support the place on jacks and cribbing, and get a foundation contractor in there to demo those piles of rock loosely glued together, clean up and square up the basement hole, and put in proper footings/drainage and a modern foundation. Yes, it can be skinned with the old fieldstone to may it look correct. Once the house is set back on the new foundation, you can then figure out how to support the center beam, and maybe pour a slab down there. Hope your cashflow is good and your loan officer likes you- it ain't gonna be cheap. -- aem sends... |
stone foundation falling out
gore wrote:
I have a home built in 1848. It has a stone foundation that has sunk and has been sunk for several decades (I can tell this by the way the previous owners who remolded in the 60's just made the baseboards wider to compensate for the sagging floor). This morning I was walking the dogs and noticed a section of the outside wall had fallen out. It looks like this has been a trouble spot before because there are different types of mortar and cement from previous repairs. I have some links to pictures and what I am hoping is what I need to repair this, but I was wondering if anyone had any better ideas or advice on how I can permanently fix this. I am by no means a mason, and I think I am going to have a problem situating the stones back in where they would actually do something structural rather than just lay in there. Any suggestions? Thanks Shane http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...oundation2.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...foundation.jpg http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...115&lpage=none Contact Les Fossel at http://www.oldhouserestoration.com/ he might be willing and able to help. |
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