There are several round "holes" in our stone masonry foundation
presumably from old pipes that have been subsequently removed. The
holes are about 2 inches in diameter and extend through the foundation
just below the level of the sill.

I would like to fill in these holes but was wondering what is
best/easiest?

Do I mix my own concrete? (if so, what type?)
Is there a good patching premix?
Any other suggestions?

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:
There are several round "holes" in our stone masonry foundation
presumably from old pipes that have been subsequently removed. The
holes are about 2 inches in diameter and extend through the foundation
just below the level of the sill.

I would like to fill in these holes but was wondering what is
best/easiest?

Do I mix my own concrete? (if so, what type?)
Is there a good patching premix?
Any other suggestions?

I would not suggest concrete. The mortar and many of the stones used in
those old foundations is much softer than concrete and many of the products
used today. Mixing the hard setting concrete could damage what you already
have.

I don't have any suggestions for specific materials. Maybe someone else
will have some good suggestions.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Just some "Mortar Mix" will do fine. Concrete uses stone aggregate for
strength, like in a sidewalk. Mortar is used for pointing between stone and
bricks and for bricklaying. Cement is the binder used in both Concrete and
Mortar Mix.

For everyone who doesn't know (Not a dig to the OP or anyone else
specifically)

Concrete is not cement, cement is not concrete, mortar is not concrete,
concrete is not mortar, mortar is not cement, cement is not mortar

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
There are several round "holes" in our stone masonry foundation
presumably from old pipes that have been subsequently removed. The
holes are about 2 inches in diameter and extend through the foundation
just below the level of the sill.

I would like to fill in these holes but was wondering what is
best/easiest?

Do I mix my own concrete? (if so, what type?)
Is there a good patching premix?
Any other suggestions?

"Brikp" writes:
Just some "Mortar Mix" will do fine. Concrete uses stone aggregate for
strength, like in a sidewalk. Mortar is used for pointing between stone and
bricks and for bricklaying. Cement is the binder used in both Concrete and
Mortar Mix.

For everyone who doesn't know (Not a dig to the OP or anyone else
specifically)

Concrete is not cement, cement is not concrete, mortar is not concrete,
concrete is not mortar, mortar is not cement, cement is not mortar


Perhaps some silly questions but I am new to this stuff...
1. Will any "Mortar Mix" work or are there different types?
2. Is there a pre-mix or is it better to mix up a dry batch?
3. Can I fill the whole hole (maybe 6 inch deep by 2 inches wide round
cylinder) at once or do you need to apply in layers?
4. Does it shrink or expand when it dries? (and if it does, how do you
keep it relatively level with the surrounding area?)

Greetings

For an "easy" and "quick" fix just spray a can of expanding foam into the
holes. Use the rest of the can to seal any other air leaks you may have.
This is not the "best" fix. The foam will always look like foam (even if you
paint it). Foam is not as durable as mortar. On the other hand it will take
you less than five minutes, doesn't involve heavy bags of mortar, mixing,
dust, etc. Plus the expanding foam is just a "way cool" product to use.
You will be sure to impress the kids.

Hope this helps,

William


"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
There are several round "holes" in our stone masonry foundation
presumably from old pipes that have been subsequently removed. The
holes are about 2 inches in diameter and extend through the foundation
just below the level of the sill.

I would like to fill in these holes but was wondering what is
best/easiest?

Do I mix my own concrete? (if so, what type?)
Is there a good patching premix?
Any other suggestions?

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
"Brikp" writes:
Just some "Mortar Mix" will do fine. Concrete uses stone aggregate for
strength, like in a sidewalk. Mortar is used for pointing between stone
and
bricks and for bricklaying. Cement is the binder used in both Concrete
and
Mortar Mix.

For everyone who doesn't know (Not a dig to the OP or anyone else
specifically)

Concrete is not cement, cement is not concrete, mortar is not concrete,
concrete is not mortar, mortar is not cement, cement is not mortar


Perhaps some silly questions but I am new to this stuff...
1. Will any "Mortar Mix" work or are there different types?
2. Is there a pre-mix or is it better to mix up a dry batch?
3. Can I fill the whole hole (maybe 6 inch deep by 2 inches wide round
cylinder) at once or do you need to apply in layers?
4. Does it shrink or expand when it dries? (and if it does, how do you
keep it relatively level with the surrounding area?)

1) Any old. Sacrete is one brand, Quickrete is another. For such a small
hole you will still end up buying a 40lb bag. Should cost under $4.00 IIRC.
2) I'm not sure I have seen pre-mix. Quickrete may have small tubs of the
stuff. They also have a "Hydraulic Cement" that can expand and help plug
water if you have water problems.
3) You can fill the hole completely as long as your mix is not too thin
causing it to slump out. You can use a whisk broom or something similar to
smooth down any irregularities once it starts to set up but before it dries.
4) No, it doesn't shrink or expand, unless its the hydraulic stuff I
mentioned in #2 above. (Hydraulic cement sets up in seconds and is a pain to
work with IMO)

You will need some type of trowel to goop it in there. An old tablespoon
would do. If you use your fingers it will seriously dry out your skin. Some
will advise wearing gloves. Be a man, don't.

If I were you, I would just go ahead and get the smallest bag you can get at
the blue or orange store. Probably 40lbs. Mix up about 1/3 of a bucket full
and see how far you get. you will be surprised by how much you will need if
you fill the holes completely.

See http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/MortarMix.html
and
http://www.usmix.com/Techsheets/sakr...mix/index.html
and for the hydraulic stuff
http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Hydr...topCement.html
and http://www.quikrete.com/diy/SealingaroundPipes.html

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
"Brikp" writes:
Just some "Mortar Mix" will do fine. Concrete uses stone aggregate for
strength, like in a sidewalk. Mortar is used for pointing between stone
and
bricks and for bricklaying. Cement is the binder used in both Concrete
and
Mortar Mix.

For everyone who doesn't know (Not a dig to the OP or anyone else
specifically)

Concrete is not cement, cement is not concrete, mortar is not concrete,
concrete is not mortar, mortar is not cement, cement is not mortar


Perhaps some silly questions but I am new to this stuff...
1. Will any "Mortar Mix" work or are there different types?

Greetings,

1a. Yes, just about any mortar mix will work (for your purpose).
1b. Yes, there are different types-- but your applicatoin is not very
demanding.

If I were in your shoes I would purchase this product:

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=prod...0391-286-14115
Quikrete® 60 Lb. Mortar Mix
Item #: 10391
Model: 14115

$2.93 == It's the lowest cost.

2. Is there a pre-mix or is it better to mix up a dry batch?

You can purchase pre-mix products but:
a) they might not be "stiff" enough (see below).
b) they will cost more than $3
c) the product above you "just add water and stir"

3. Can I fill the whole hole (maybe 6 inch deep by 2 inches wide round
cylinder) at once or do you need to apply in layers?

don't apply layers -- it isn't necessary

4. Does it shrink or expand when it dries? (and if it does, how do you
keep it relatively level with the surrounding area?)

Yes, it shrinks!!! To control shrinkage and help keep the mortar level with
the surrounding area you need to use a very "stiff" (dry) mixture. Do not
mix it according to directions (into the "plastic" state). Instead, make
the mix as dry as possible, but still wet enough that it doesn't just fall
out of the void. You can use a board to pack in the mortar in tightly and
level it. If you keep it dry you will have no issues keeping it level with
the surrounding area. If you make it too wet you will run into problems.
If you insist on making the mortar into a plastic state you will need a way
to keep a board pressed up against the void until the mortar hardens to keep
it level.

Hope this helps,
William

P

"Brikp" writes:
1) Any old. Sacrete is one brand, Quickrete is another. For such a small
hole you will still end up buying a 40lb bag. Should cost under $4.00 IIRC.
2) I'm not sure I have seen pre-mix. Quickrete may have small tubs of the
stuff. They also have a "Hydraulic Cement" that can expand and help plug
water if you have water problems.
3) You can fill the hole completely as long as your mix is not too thin
causing it to slump out. You can use a whisk broom or something similar to
smooth down any irregularities once it starts to set up but before it dries.
4) No, it doesn't shrink or expand, unless its the hydraulic stuff I
mentioned in #2 above. (Hydraulic cement sets up in seconds and is a pain to
work with IMO)

You will need some type of trowel to goop it in there. An old tablespoon
would do. If you use your fingers it will seriously dry out your skin. Some
will advise wearing gloves. Be a man, don't.

If I were you, I would just go ahead and get the smallest bag you can get at
the blue or orange store. Probably 40lbs. Mix up about 1/3 of a bucket full
and see how far you get. you will be surprised by how much you will need if
you fill the holes completely.

See http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/MortarMix.html
and
http://www.usmix.com/Techsheets/sakr...mix/index.html
and for the hydraulic stuff
http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Hydr...topCement.html
and http://www.quikrete.com/diy/SealingaroundPipes.html

Thanks SOOOO much for the help...

"William Deans" writes:
1a. Yes, just about any mortar mix will work (for your purpose).
1b. Yes, there are different types-- but your applicatoin is not very
demanding.

If I were in your shoes I would purchase this product:

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=prod...0391-286-14115
Quikrete® 60 Lb. Mortar Mix
Item #: 10391
Model: 14115

$2.93 == It's the lowest cost.

2. Is there a pre-mix or is it better to mix up a dry batch?

You can purchase pre-mix products but:
a) they might not be "stiff" enough (see below).
b) they will cost more than $3
c) the product above you "just add water and stir"

3. Can I fill the whole hole (maybe 6 inch deep by 2 inches wide round
cylinder) at once or do you need to apply in layers?

don't apply layers -- it isn't necessary

4. Does it shrink or expand when it dries? (and if it does, how do you
keep it relatively level with the surrounding area?)

Yes, it shrinks!!! To control shrinkage and help keep the mortar level with
the surrounding area you need to use a very "stiff" (dry) mixture. Do not
mix it according to directions (into the "plastic" state). Instead, make
the mix as dry as possible, but still wet enough that it doesn't just fall
out of the void. You can use a board to pack in the mortar in tightly and
level it. If you keep it dry you will have no issues keeping it level with
the surrounding area. If you make it too wet you will run into problems.
If you insist on making the mortar into a plastic state you will need a way
to keep a board pressed up against the void until the mortar hardens to keep
it level.

In general, is there any disadvantage to "stiff" mixture? i.e. is it
less strong? does it bond less well to the surrounding masonry? etc.

Hope this helps,
Very helpful!!!

Question:
In general, is there any disadvantage to "stiff" mixture? i.e. is it
less strong? does it bond less well to the surrounding masonry? etc.

Answer:
In general, the less water the stronger the mortar.
The properly cured bond is equally strong.

So what are the disadvantages?
If the mortar dries out too soon it will not properly cure. Stiff mortar is
it a higher risk of drying out. You can prevent this situation by
moistening the interior of the hole until it stops readily absorbing water
before applying the mortar. After applying the mortar you can spray the
finished surface with water from time to time to counteract the effects of
evaporation. Stiff mortar is also harder mix, harder to compact, and harder
to smooth.

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
"William Deans" writes:
1a. Yes, just about any mortar mix will work (for your purpose).
1b. Yes, there are different types-- but your applicatoin is not very
demanding.

If I were in your shoes I would purchase this product:

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=prod...0391-286-14115
Quikrete® 60 Lb. Mortar Mix
Item #: 10391
Model: 14115

$2.93 == It's the lowest cost.

2. Is there a pre-mix or is it better to mix up a dry batch?

You can purchase pre-mix products but:
a) they might not be "stiff" enough (see below).
b) they will cost more than $3
c) the product above you "just add water and stir"

3. Can I fill the whole hole (maybe 6 inch deep by 2 inches wide round
cylinder) at once or do you need to apply in layers?

don't apply layers -- it isn't necessary

4. Does it shrink or expand when it dries? (and if it does, how do you
keep it relatively level with the surrounding area?)

Yes, it shrinks!!! To control shrinkage and help keep the mortar level
with
the surrounding area you need to use a very "stiff" (dry) mixture. Do
not
mix it according to directions (into the "plastic" state). Instead,
make
the mix as dry as possible, but still wet enough that it doesn't just
fall
out of the void. You can use a board to pack in the mortar in tightly
and
level it. If you keep it dry you will have no issues keeping it level
with
the surrounding area. If you make it too wet you will run into
problems.
If you insist on making the mortar into a plastic state you will need a
way
to keep a board pressed up against the void until the mortar hardens to
keep
it level.

In general, is there any disadvantage to "stiff" mixture? i.e. is it
less strong? does it bond less well to the surrounding masonry? etc.

Hope this helps,
Very helpful!!!

For you Mortar Mix, be sure to wash out the hole with a hose. You will
not affect the wall with a hole repair, be sure hole is clean.

"William Deans" writes:
"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
"Brikp" writes:
Just some "Mortar Mix" will do fine. Concrete uses stone aggregate for
strength, like in a sidewalk. Mortar is used for pointing between stone
and
bricks and for bricklaying. Cement is the binder used in both Concrete
and
Mortar Mix.

For everyone who doesn't know (Not a dig to the OP or anyone else
specifically)

Concrete is not cement, cement is not concrete, mortar is not concrete,
concrete is not mortar, mortar is not cement, cement is not mortar


Perhaps some silly questions but I am new to this stuff...
1. Will any "Mortar Mix" work or are there different types?

Greetings,

1a. Yes, just about any mortar mix will work (for your purpose).
1b. Yes, there are different types-- but your applicatoin is not very
demanding.

Just went to the Home Despot tonight and the guy in building materials
(who seemed to be somewhat knowledgeable) discouraged me from buying a
straight Mortar Mix and instead recommended some Acrylic cement patch
stuff (I forget the full name). He claimed that Mortar Mix is made for
joining bricks and that it would not stick properly to a hole in the
cement wall. The Acrylic product apparantly includes cement, sand,
plus some additives to help binding.

His advice sounds logical, but on the other hand the product he
recommended is about 10 times as expensive on a pound-for-pound basis,
so maybe he just was ripping me off

Any thoughts?

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Just went to the Home Despot tonight and the guy in building materials
(who seemed to be somewhat knowledgeable) discouraged me from buying a
straight Mortar Mix and instead recommended some Acrylic cement patch
stuff (I forget the full name). He claimed that Mortar Mix is made for
joining bricks and that it would not stick properly to a hole in the
cement wall. The Acrylic product apparantly includes cement, sand,
plus some additives to help binding.

His advice sounds logical, but on the other hand the product he
recommended is about 10 times as expensive on a pound-for-pound basis,
so maybe he just was ripping me off

Any thoughts?

Typical box store employee. If he knew what he was talking about, he'd be
out in the field making far more money than standing around in an orange
apron giving bad (overpriced) advice.
Acrylic or latex addatives, or premixed morters which include them, are
great for aplications where the mud is thin, and/or needs to strongly grip
adjoining surfaces. Overkill for your situation. Follow the good advice you
received from others here. Mix cheap mortar mix with just enough water to
make it like brown sugar consistancy. Pack it in firmly. Moisten the
surrounding area a few times over a few days.
I'd fix that hole with a 3-1 mix of coarse sand-Type II Portland, if it were
me, but I have these two componants of mortar on hand all the time. I think
the premix stuff is a bit lean on it's cement content, but for your
situation it should be fine.

"David Modine" writes:
"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Just went to the Home Despot tonight and the guy in building materials
(who seemed to be somewhat knowledgeable) discouraged me from buying a
straight Mortar Mix and instead recommended some Acrylic cement patch
stuff (I forget the full name). He claimed that Mortar Mix is made for
joining bricks and that it would not stick properly to a hole in the
cement wall. The Acrylic product apparantly includes cement, sand,
plus some additives to help binding.

His advice sounds logical, but on the other hand the product he
recommended is about 10 times as expensive on a pound-for-pound basis,
so maybe he just was ripping me off

Any thoughts?

Typical box store employee. If he knew what he was talking about, he'd be
out in the field making far more money than standing around in an orange
apron giving bad (overpriced) advice.
Acrylic or latex addatives, or premixed morters which include them, are
great for aplications where the mud is thin, and/or needs to strongly grip
adjoining surfaces. Overkill for your situation. Follow the good advice you
received from others here. Mix cheap mortar mix with just enough water to
make it like brown sugar consistancy. Pack it in firmly. Moisten the
surrounding area a few times over a few days.
I'd fix that hole with a 3-1 mix of coarse sand-Type II Portland, if it were
me, but I have these two componants of mortar on hand all the time. I think
the premix stuff is a bit lean on it's cement content, but for your
situation it should be fine.

Thanks for the straightforward advice!