This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to make
changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently installing
outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable already
exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from the inside,
push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same guage as the
interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening in the interior
junction box to the outside and through the hole. I connect the inside
wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant, and
mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with silicone
swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI receptacle to the
romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an "always in use" hooded
cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used this
technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if not,
what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 8hrs 25mins
-------------------------------------------
First rule of intelligent tinkering:
Save all the parts.
-------------------------------------------

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
3.184...
This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make
changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing
outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable already
exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from the inside,
push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same guage as the
interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening in the interior
junction box to the outside and through the hole. I connect the inside
wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and
mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with silicone
swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI receptacle to the
romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an "always in use" hooded
cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used this
technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if not,
what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 8hrs 25mins
-------------------------------------------
First rule of intelligent tinkering:
Save all the parts.

Nothing wrong with your method. There is no need to use U.F. cable if
you're running straight into the FS box.
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:03:34p, RBM told us...


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
3.184...
This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.



Nothing wrong with your method. There is no need to use U.F. cable if
you're running straight into the FS box.
-------------------------------------------

Thanks! Yes, I suppose you're right about the cable. I guess I just feel
"safer" with it, and I usually have some around the house.


--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 7hrs 45mins
-------------------------------------------
Cats must topple the spice rack going
for the catnip.
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to make
changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently installing
outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable already
exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from the inside,
push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same guage as the
interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening in the interior
junction box to the outside and through the hole. I connect the inside
wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant, and
mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with silicone
swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI receptacle to the
romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an "always in use" hooded
cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used this
technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if not,
what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.

Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.

Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.


The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 7hrs 35mins
-------------------------------------------
If you are not the poet, you can be
the poem
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...


Wayne Boatwright wrote:


This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.


Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.



The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

Hi,
You are OK then. My exterior ones are daisy chained. And Jacuzzi tub is
the only one having it's own GFCI breaker.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.

Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.


The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

I think he is saying it would be better to put the GFCI in the inside
box you have open. That way, if rain does happen to leak into the wire
through the wall and shorts it out, the GFCI should trip. With the GFCI
in the outside box, that short run that is near the weather is not
protected. In general, the GFCI should be on the upstream end of any
protected circuit.

--
aem sends...

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:43:43p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...


Wayne Boatwright wrote:


This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.


Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.



The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

Hi,
You are OK then. My exterior ones are daisy chained. And Jacuzzi tub is
the only one having it's own GFCI breaker.


Each of my exterior outlets is a one-off with an indoor outlet (although
some of these are on the same circuit in the main panel), and each has its
own GFCI receptacle. Back in OH when we had a Jacuzzi tub, it also had its
own GFCI breaker. I presently have no GFCI breakers in my main panel. For
now I don't think there's a need. It's a brand new home, and every outlet
that needs GFCI protection has it's on protected outlet.

One flaw that I made in the first house where I installed exterior outlets
was replacing the interior receptacle with a GFCI, then feeding the
exterior outlet. It was inconvenient when something outside would cause a
fault and whatever was plugged in inside would also go out. Lesson
learned. :-)

Thanks for your comments...

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 6hrs 55mins
-------------------------------------------
'I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to
take what you've got.'
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 05:11:48p, aemeijers told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping
opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone
sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and
if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.

Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.


The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

I think he is saying it would be better to put the GFCI in the inside
box you have open. That way, if rain does happen to leak into the wire
through the wall and shorts it out, the GFCI should trip. With the GFCI
in the outside box, that short run that is near the weather is not
protected. In general, the GFCI should be on the upstream end of any
protected circuit.

--
aem sends...


I understand your logic, and did that in the first house where I installed
exteriors. However, considering the overall construction, the problem you
describe is very unlikely to occur. Also, it's quite inconvenient if
something outdoor trips the GFCI inside and whatever is using the outlet on
the inside also goes out.

If you read Tony's subsequent post, I don't think mounting it inside is
what he meant.

Thanks for your comments, however.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 6hrs 40mins
-------------------------------------------
There's more to life than sitting
around in the sun in your underwear
playing the clarinet. --Woody Allen
-------------------------------------------

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:15:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:43:43p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...


Wayne Boatwright wrote:


This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan to
make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the same
guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping opening
in the interior junction box to the outside and through the hole. I
connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone sealant,
and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind it with
silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a GFCI
receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach an
"always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and if
not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.


Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.



The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

Hi,
You are OK then. My exterior ones are daisy chained. And Jacuzzi tub is
the only one having it's own GFCI breaker.


Each of my exterior outlets is a one-off with an indoor outlet (although
some of these are on the same circuit in the main panel), and each has its
own GFCI receptacle. Back in OH when we had a Jacuzzi tub, it also had its
own GFCI breaker. I presently have no GFCI breakers in my main panel. For
now I don't think there's a need. It's a brand new home, and every outlet
that needs GFCI protection has it's on protected outlet.

One flaw that I made in the first house where I installed exterior outlets
was replacing the interior receptacle with a GFCI, then feeding the
exterior outlet. It was inconvenient when something outside would cause a
fault and whatever was plugged in inside would also go out. Lesson
learned. :-)


I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Thanks for your comments...
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Never thought of doing that. The outlet I put in the front of my house is
controlled by an indoor switch for that reason.

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 06:25:59p, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:15:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:43:43p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...


Wayne Boatwright wrote:


This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan
to make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the
same guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping
opening in the interior junction box to the outside and through the
hole. I connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone
sealant, and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind
it with silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a
GFCI receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach
an "always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and
if not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.


Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.



The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

Hi,
You are OK then. My exterior ones are daisy chained. And Jacuzzi tub
is the only one having it's own GFCI breaker.


Each of my exterior outlets is a one-off with an indoor outlet (although
some of these are on the same circuit in the main panel), and each has
its own GFCI receptacle. Back in OH when we had a Jacuzzi tub, it also
had its own GFCI breaker. I presently have no GFCI breakers in my main
panel. For now I don't think there's a need. It's a brand new home,
and every outlet that needs GFCI protection has it's on protected
outlet.

One flaw that I made in the first house where I installed exterior
outlets was replacing the interior receptacle with a GFCI, then feeding
the exterior outlet. It was inconvenient when something outside would
cause a fault and whatever was plugged in inside would also go out.
Lesson learned. :-)


I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Thanks for your comments...

Well, yes it does, if you don't mind tripping the circuit and not being
able to use the indoor socket when you want the holiday light off. I need
the full time use of the interior sockets. As far as holiday lights, I
have mine on weatherproof plug-in timers. I've also heard, though
unsubstantiated, that it's not a good idea to use the GFCI "test" switch as
an on/off switch. Apparently it wasn't meant for constant use as such.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 4hrs 35mins
-------------------------------------------
If the shoe fits, get another one just
like it. --George Carlin
-------------------------------------------

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.


Never thought of doing that. The outlet I put in the front of my house is
controlled by an indoor switch for that reason.


Hi,
I just use digital timer. X-mas lights receptacle is built-in right
under the eave and on exterior walls where needed.

On Apr 26, 10:23*pm, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 05:11:48p, aemeijers told us...

I like your method. Each 'outside' outlet is its own GFCI and
accessible from outside if/when it does trip.
It protects whoever/whatever is plugged into that outside outlet in
the event of anything causing a current unbalance in the live and
neutral leads, such as leaky outdoor electric tool etc. Without
disabling the whole circuit or tripping a GFCI breaker at the main or
secondary circuit breaker panel somewhere inside the house.
Which reminds me still have one outside outlet hardly ever used, not
itself equipped with or protected by an upstream GFCI.
Thanks for the reminder. terry

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 07:33:16p, Tony Hwang told us...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad weather.


Never thought of doing that. The outlet I put in the front of my house
is controlled by an indoor switch for that reason.


Hi,
I just use digital timer. X-mas lights receptacle is built-in right
under the eave and on exterior walls where needed.


Wow, how handy is that! Wish I'd thought of doing that our house was being
built.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 2hrs 55mins
-------------------------------------------
Better dead than Smeg.
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 07:06:58p, Edwin Pawlowski told us...


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Never thought of doing that. The outlet I put in the front of my house
is
controlled by an indoor switch for that reason.



Several houses ago, we had a house where recessed exterior cans were
installed under all the eaves, all controlled by one switch. We didn't
really use them often unless we were expecting company after dark, but they
fixtures did come in handy during the holidays. We used screw-in plug
adapters to power all of the house holiday lighting. One flip an
everything was on or off.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 2hrs 45mins
-------------------------------------------
'Nothing is what it seems, all things
are what they are.'
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 07:06:58p, Edwin Pawlowski told us...


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Never thought of doing that. The outlet I put in the front of my house

is

controlled by an indoor switch for that reason.




Several houses ago, we had a house where recessed exterior cans were
installed under all the eaves, all controlled by one switch. We didn't
really use them often unless we were expecting company after dark, but they
fixtures did come in handy during the holidays. We used screw-in plug
adapters to power all of the house holiday lighting. One flip an
everything was on or off.

Hi,
After having 6 houses custom built not counting cottage still not 100%
LOL! Now time has run out to try again. On wrong side of 60 now and
don't feel like doing it again.

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 07:40:54p, terry told us...

On Apr 26, 10:23*pm, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 05:11:48p, aemeijers told us...

I like your method. Each 'outside' outlet is its own GFCI and
accessible from outside if/when it does trip.
It protects whoever/whatever is plugged into that outside outlet in
the event of anything causing a current unbalance in the live and
neutral leads, such as leaky outdoor electric tool etc. Without
disabling the whole circuit or tripping a GFCI breaker at the main or
secondary circuit breaker panel somewhere inside the house.
Which reminds me still have one outside outlet hardly ever used, not
itself equipped with or protected by an upstream GFCI.
Thanks for the reminder. terry


Thanks, Terry. It really works well for my purposes, and for the reasons
you mention, and it doesn't inconvenient any inside outlets.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 2hrs 55mins
-------------------------------------------
Better dead than Smeg.
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 09:42:15p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 07:06:58p, Edwin Pawlowski told us...


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Never thought of doing that. The outlet I put in the front of my house

is

controlled by an indoor switch for that reason.




Several houses ago, we had a house where recessed exterior cans were
installed under all the eaves, all controlled by one switch. We didn't
really use them often unless we were expecting company after dark, but
they fixtures did come in handy during the holidays. We used screw-in
plug adapters to power all of the house holiday lighting. One flip an
everything was on or off.

Hi,
After having 6 houses custom built not counting cottage still not 100%
LOL! Now time has run out to try again. On wrong side of 60 now and
don't feel like doing it again.


I'm on th wrong side of 60, too, Tony. At 63, I doubt seriously we'll be
doing another house. Heck, we've just been in this one 16 months. I doubt
there's ever been a house built where some great idea or feature wasn't
forgotten. On the whole, though, we're pretty happy with this one.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 04(IV)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 1dys 1hrs 40mins
-------------------------------------------
Hey! Who took the cork off my lunch??!
-------------------------------------------

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:31:02 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 06:25:59p, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:15:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:43:43p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...


Wayne Boatwright wrote:


This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't plan
to make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and from
the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex" (the
same guage as the interior wiring) through an existing self-clamping
opening in the interior junction box to the outside and through the
hole. I connect the inside wires to the existing receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone
sealant, and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed behind
it with silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I connect a
GFCI receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I then attach
an "always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've used
this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to code, and
if not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.


Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.



The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than that?

Hi,
You are OK then. My exterior ones are daisy chained. And Jacuzzi tub
is the only one having it's own GFCI breaker.


Each of my exterior outlets is a one-off with an indoor outlet (although
some of these are on the same circuit in the main panel), and each has
its own GFCI receptacle. Back in OH when we had a Jacuzzi tub, it also
had its own GFCI breaker. I presently have no GFCI breakers in my main
panel. For now I don't think there's a need. It's a brand new home,
and every outlet that needs GFCI protection has it's on protected
outlet.

One flaw that I made in the first house where I installed exterior
outlets was replacing the interior receptacle with a GFCI, then feeding
the exterior outlet. It was inconvenient when something outside would
cause a fault and whatever was plugged in inside would also go out.
Lesson learned. :-)


I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Thanks for your comments...

Well, yes it does, if you don't mind tripping the circuit and not being
able to use the indoor socket when you want the holiday light off. I need
the full time use of the interior sockets. As far as holiday lights, I
have mine on weatherproof plug-in timers.

I use a series of solid-state relays so all the holiday lights are
controlled by ONE timer, and so go on and off at the same time. This
is a temporary setup That I put out in the middle of October (a few
Halloween lights). The individual outlets still have GFCIs.

I've also heard, though
unsubstantiated, that it's not a good idea to use the GFCI "test" switch as
an on/off switch. Apparently it wasn't meant for constant use as such.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

On Sun 27 Apr 2008 06:25:30a, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:31:02 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 06:25:59p, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:15:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:43:43p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sat 26 Apr 2008 04:21:56p, Tony Hwang told us...


Wayne Boatwright wrote:


This is a question of curiosity more than anything, as I don't
plan to make changes to the way I have installed outdoor outlets.

In several homes, including the present one where I am currently
installing outdoor outlets, this has been my method...

At a point opposite on the inside of the house where a receptable
already exists, I drill a hole in the outside wall (cedar), and
from the inside, push through a length of exterior grade "romex"
(the same guage as the interior wiring) through an existing
self-clamping opening in the interior junction box to the outside
and through the hole. I connect the inside wires to the existing
receptacle.

On the outside, I seal the hole around the romex with silicone
sealant, and mount an exterior weatherproof box (also sealed
behind it with silicone swealant. After the sealant has cured, I
connect a GFCI receptacle to the romex and mount it in the box. I
then attach an "always in use" hooded cover plate to complete the
installation.

While I know this has proven to be safe over all the years I've
used this technique, I wonder whether it is really according to
code, and if not, what exactly would the code require instead.

BTW, I currently live in Mesa, AZ, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any responses.


Hi,
And better be on GFCI circuit.



The receptacle I install in the box is GFCI. I need more than
that?

Hi,
You are OK then. My exterior ones are daisy chained. And Jacuzzi tub
is the only one having it's own GFCI breaker.


Each of my exterior outlets is a one-off with an indoor outlet
(although some of these are on the same circuit in the main panel),
and each has its own GFCI receptacle. Back in OH when we had a
Jacuzzi tub, it also had its own GFCI breaker. I presently have no
GFCI breakers in my main panel. For now I don't think there's a need.
It's a brand new home, and every outlet that needs GFCI protection
has it's on protected outlet.

One flaw that I made in the first house where I installed exterior
outlets was replacing the interior receptacle with a GFCI, then
feeding the exterior outlet. It was inconvenient when something
outside would cause a fault and whatever was plugged in inside would
also go out. Lesson learned. :-)


I know someone around here who has 2 exterior receptacles wired to
interior ones, with the GFCI in the interior location. This makes it
easy to control holiday lights without having to go out in bad
weather.

Thanks for your comments...

Well, yes it does, if you don't mind tripping the circuit and not being
able to use the indoor socket when you want the holiday light off. I
need the full time use of the interior sockets. As far as holiday
lights, I have mine on weatherproof plug-in timers.

I use a series of solid-state relays so all the holiday lights are
controlled by ONE timer, and so go on and off at the same time. This
is a temporary setup That I put out in the middle of October (a few
Halloween lights). The individual outlets still have GFCIs.

Great idea... Are these anything like the X-10 devices? I used these in a
previous home for all interior lighting, either in wall switches or plug-in
modules.

I've also heard, though
unsubstantiated, that it's not a good idea to use the GFCI "test" switch
as an on/off switch. Apparently it wasn't meant for constant use as
such.



--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 04(IV)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Rogation Sunday
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 16hrs 15mins
-------------------------------------------
Yo! Ewige Blumenkraft, Dude!
-------------------------------------------

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:49:22 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

[snip]

I use a series of solid-state relays so all the holiday lights are
controlled by ONE timer, and so go on and off at the same time. This
is a temporary setup That I put out in the middle of October (a few
Halloween lights). The individual outlets still have GFCIs.

Great idea... Are these anything like the X-10 devices? I used these in a
previous home for all interior lighting, either in wall switches or plug-in
modules.


[snip]

There are not powerline-carrier devices, but hardwired (temporarily).
I have my holiday lights flashing at about 1Hz. X10 devices are too
slow for this. I have the relays linked using 6-wire telephone-type
cable. The relays themselves are installed in plastic electrical boxes
along with the controlled receptacles. They are located inside and
plugged into a GFCI, with cords going out windows. The control signal
comes from an old computer (Pentium 166) through a simple RS232-level
buffer I built with a MAX233 IC.

BTW, The wires are assigned like this:

1 (white) exclusion line. This is on when the lights are and can be
connected to NC relays to disable things that shouldn't be used at the
same time as the holiday lights.

2 (black) lights on (+12V from wall-wart will be present from sunset
to 10PM).

3 (red) flash 1. Output from computer serial port to flash lights. The
computer switches the DTR line (connected to this) to say "Happy
Holidays" in Morse code.

4 (green) flash 2. Logical NOT of above. However, both these lines can
be made active to turn all lights on to take still pictures.

5 (yellow) ground. As you might have guessed, I originally planned
this for 4 wires.

6 (blue) [reserved for future use]

These wires carry no voltages outside the range of -10V to +12V. The
normal current is no higher than the few mA needed to operate the
SSRs.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:08:24 -0400, wrote:


[snip]

I use a series of solid-state relays so all the holiday lights are
controlled by ONE timer, and so go on and off at the same time. This
is a temporary setup That I put out in the middle of October (a few
Halloween lights). The individual outlets still have GFCIs.

Great idea... Are these anything like the X-10 devices? I used these in a
previous home for all interior lighting, either in wall switches or plug-in
modules.


An easy way to do this is to put an SSR in a Bell Box with a 120v
cordset, receptacle and a low voltage cable going to a wall wart.
Plug the wall wart into the timer controlled strings and plug the
power to another circuit. Then you are still controlling additional
lights with the timer but you are using another circuit.

I do that, with long (low voltage) wires between them so all my lights
come on and flash together. I have some pictures of the lights at
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/winter.html Click on any thumbnail
to see a larger picture.

You can't see the flashing in the pictures, but one side of the yard
flashes "Happy Holidays" (or other sayings) in Morse code and the
other side flashes out of phase (so there's always some lit).

All these used to require 7 circuits, but since most of the colored
lights are LEDs, that's 4 circuits now. I now use 9 SSRs: 4 for
always-on stuff, 4 for flashing lights, and 1 (NC) to disable an
electric heater while the lights are on.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

On Sun 27 Apr 2008 02:31:41p, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:49:22 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

[snip]

I use a series of solid-state relays so all the holiday lights are
controlled by ONE timer, and so go on and off at the same time. This
is a temporary setup That I put out in the middle of October (a few
Halloween lights). The individual outlets still have GFCIs.

Great idea... Are these anything like the X-10 devices? I used these
in a previous home for all interior lighting, either in wall switches or
plug-in modules.


[snip]

There are not powerline-carrier devices, but hardwired (temporarily).
I have my holiday lights flashing at about 1Hz. X10 devices are too
slow for this. I have the relays linked using 6-wire telephone-type
cable. The relays themselves are installed in plastic electrical boxes
along with the controlled receptacles. They are located inside and
plugged into a GFCI, with cords going out windows. The control signal
comes from an old computer (Pentium 166) through a simple RS232-level
buffer I built with a MAX233 IC.

BTW, The wires are assigned like this:

1 (white) exclusion line. This is on when the lights are and can be
connected to NC relays to disable things that shouldn't be used at the
same time as the holiday lights.

2 (black) lights on (+12V from wall-wart will be present from sunset
to 10PM).

3 (red) flash 1. Output from computer serial port to flash lights. The
computer switches the DTR line (connected to this) to say "Happy
Holidays" in Morse code.

4 (green) flash 2. Logical NOT of above. However, both these lines can
be made active to turn all lights on to take still pictures.

5 (yellow) ground. As you might have guessed, I originally planned
this for 4 wires.

6 (blue) [reserved for future use]

These wires carry no voltages outside the range of -10V to +12V. The
normal current is no higher than the few mA needed to operate the
SSRs.

Very interesting installation! I'm sure it's really very nice, but I doubt
I personally would have the patience to put it together. I think they call
that "lazy". :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 04(IV)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Rogation Sunday
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 8hrs 20mins
-------------------------------------------
'Bother,' said Pooh as he switched
between Animaniacs and Star Trek.
-------------------------------------------

On Sun 27 Apr 2008 02:43:53p, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:08:24 -0400, wrote:


[snip]

I use a series of solid-state relays so all the holiday lights are
controlled by ONE timer, and so go on and off at the same time. This
is a temporary setup That I put out in the middle of October (a few
Halloween lights). The individual outlets still have GFCIs.

Great idea... Are these anything like the X-10 devices? I used these
in a previous home for all interior lighting, either in wall switches
or plug-in modules.


An easy way to do this is to put an SSR in a Bell Box with a 120v
cordset, receptacle and a low voltage cable going to a wall wart.
Plug the wall wart into the timer controlled strings and plug the
power to another circuit. Then you are still controlling additional
lights with the timer but you are using another circuit.

I do that, with long (low voltage) wires between them so all my lights
come on and flash together. I have some pictures of the lights at
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/winter.html Click on any thumbnail
to see a larger picture.

You can't see the flashing in the pictures, but one side of the yard
flashes "Happy Holidays" (or other sayings) in Morse code and the
other side flashes out of phase (so there's always some lit).

All these used to require 7 circuits, but since most of the colored
lights are LEDs, that's 4 circuits now. I now use 9 SSRs: 4 for
always-on stuff, 4 for flashing lights, and 1 (NC) to disable an
electric heater while the lights are on.

That's a beautiful holiday display!

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 04(IV)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Rogation Sunday
Countdown till Memorial Day
4wks 8hrs 20mins
-------------------------------------------
'Bother,' said Pooh as he switched
between Animaniacs and Star Trek.
-------------------------------------------