wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:04:33 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:



Wait! You mean to say your going to run it in your garage?


Was planning on it. Before you get upset, look at the critical pats of the
construction this time.

Open window, open door, roof vents and an open air fan plus garage door open
at least 6 inches (more if rain allows.)




Yup that's the way people do it ... and still die

Do you have CO detectors around the house?


A few years ago, our condo maint. people were operating a generator in
the open-air atrium of our
building. Atrium is open on four sides, with roof over it. Our AC is
at the opposite end of the building from where they worked. We had an old
CO detector, no longer used because we have no gas appliances, in a box
in the laundry room. There
was enough CO given off outside to set off our alarm inside.

I recall reading about one death in Florida because the setting
described resembled a friend's home.
Had a generator going in their screened-in outdoor room. They woke up
dead. )

wrote

Wait! You mean to say your going to run it in your garage?

Was planning on it. Before you get upset, look at the critical pats of
the
construction this time.

Open window, open door, roof vents and an open air fan plus garage door
open
at least 6 inches (more if rain allows.)

Yup that's the way people do it ... and still die

Do you have CO detectors around the house?

Yes. And rote answers without listening to the construction involved are
not as useful as you might think.

Consider this a 2 wall garage with roof and 2 walls missing and you are a
bit closer to the construction.

On Mar 31, 2:33*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
Yes. *And rote answers without listening to the construction involved are
not as useful as you might think.

Consider this a 2 wall garage with roof and 2 walls missing and you are a
bit closer to the construction.

1 open window and a cracked garage door do not constitute "missing
walls."

What you fail to understand is how nasty and dangerous CO really is,
and what little it really takes to adversely affect your health for a
LONG time, if it doesn't kill you.

cshenk wrote:
"Jim Redelfs" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

slight confusion on our end is one of the reasons
we havent gotten one yet.
A portable generator can be very handy but, unless used properly, quite
deadly.

Yes, and we dont need one bad enough to be risky with it.

If you believe that running extension cords for those (hopefully) rare
occasions when the power is out for a long time, you should consider
running the generator OUTSIDE and passing the cords through the window
in your garage. Carbon monoxide can build up in an enclosed space, even

Understood. I gave too little information. In my area, hurricanes are the
main outage thing. Summer occurance, lots of wind and rain. I dont think
it will work outside in conditions like that. If it's not too bad though,
the alternate spot if the back screened porch (13x42ft) up on bricks or
cinderblocks to make sure it stays dry and only after the rain part has
passed by.

The garage is not airtight. It would be very easy to also lift the door 6
inches. In fact, the main problem with the garage is in winter as it isnt
airtight so we have a heating problem in a serious cold snap and have to use
pipe heaters.

This alone tells me that you are going to poison yourself with CO. If
you're even partially heating the garage except in a serious cold snap,
you do NOT have an air tight seal between the house and the garage, no
matter how well you can ventilate the garage.

Also, if you get an "ultra-quiet" generator, you will loose much of that
value running the thing in an "enclosed" space, ventilated properly or

Not worried about ultra quiet. Neighbors have these and at the time when
the power is out, we dont mind one anothers generator noise.

Injuring or killing someone using a suicide cord (exposed prongs on BOTH
ends), particularly technicians working on the high voltage lines away
from your house, may be rare, but it has - and does - happen.

Not planning to do more than direct connect it to a few appliances.

Unless you're going to run 12ga. or heavier extension cord throughout
the house and multiple open windows to run them out to the generator,
you are just going to burn up the appliances AND the generator.

One hopes that a protracted outage is rare enough that the stringing of
cords isn't too big of a hassle for the occasion. In such instances,
run the cord to the freezer and "run it up" to operating temperature,
then do the same with the refrigerator.

Nope, though we did once go a week. No plan to run the fridge too off it.
We'll move whats freezable to the chest freezer and the rest can go bye-bye
if it's that long.

If the outage is in the heating season, the process is a bit more
complicated, requiring the "hinking" of a plug onto the furnace supply

Only once did that happen in 12 years and we used the fireplace. I'd be
more worried about frozen pipes in a case like that.

Thanks for the feedback!



The only way to do this properly is to install a transfer switch, either
designed for inside your existing panel, or as an add on to the panel.
The feed into the transfer switch has a special housing for outside,
with a built in male connector. Because the transfer switch prevents
that housing from being connected to the mains, it is not unsafe for
that connector to be male. The cable that connects it to the generator
is a normal male to female cable.

As so many others have warned you, if you don't do it correctly and
someone gets hurt OR there is property damage caused by your generator,
you will be hanging out to dry. Your insurance company will say screw
you, and the law will probably be looking to lock you up.

cshenk wrote:
wrote

Wait! You mean to say your going to run it in your garage?
Was planning on it. Before you get upset, look at the critical pats of
the
construction this time.

Open window, open door, roof vents and an open air fan plus garage door
open
at least 6 inches (more if rain allows.)

Yup that's the way people do it ... and still die

Do you have CO detectors around the house?

Yes. And rote answers without listening to the construction involved are
not as useful as you might think.

Consider this a 2 wall garage with roof and 2 walls missing and you are a
bit closer to the construction.


And you still aren't listening to anyone here who is telling you that
that is how hundreds of people die every year of carbon monoxide
poisoning and hundreds more are made seriously ill!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU SOME KIND OF IDIOT???????

"Husky" wrote
Yes. And rote answers without listening to the construction involved are
not as useful as you might think.

Consider this a 2 wall garage with roof and 2 walls missing and you are a
bit closer to the construction.
And you still aren't listening to anyone here who is telling you that that
is how hundreds of people die every year of carbon monoxide poisoning and
hundreds more are made seriously ill!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU SOME KIND OF IDIOT???????

No, but you seem to be.

You obviously havent listened to the construction involved. You've got a
mind set on the idea that this is an enclosed attached garage to the house
with open airflow into the house. It's not. I never said it was either.
You *assumed* too much and didnt listen.

If it had airflow to the house, I wouldnt have the heating problem in
winter.

On Mar 30, 5:11*pm, "Rich" madeyoulook@localhost wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 2:27 pm, "Rich" madeyoulook@localhost wrote:

I'm in the market for a portable generator and just need it to run the
fridge the furnace and just small things after that. I went on a few web
sites and they seem to be geared to running your whole house instead of
just
a few things to get past the storm or what ever. I live SW of Chicago and
the longest I've been without power was 3 days when a tornado came
through.
I would like to buy one that would get me by for a day or two at the most
and only run the basics. What I'm having trouble with is sizing the unit
to
my needs. Sump pump, furnace, fridge and some lighting but I have all
compact fluorescents.

Thanks for any advice, especially from someone that has this basic setup,
Rich

Something else to consider, is how you balance the load so you dont
burn our the unit, its two legs make 220, using only one is not
correct, thats where a transfer panel makes it work safely.

OK I've been looking at more units and switches and I think I'm going to use
my 16HP Briggs engine and get a 5500 watt PTO unit and make the generator
from that. Then use the money I didn't spend on an engine to get a transfer
switch and set this up properly.



Am I the only one that sees problems with this? Like with a normal
generator bought as a unit, isn't there a better governor mechanism
that keeps the speed more constant as opposed to what you will get
with a bolt together approach?

On Mar 30, 5:11*pm, "Rich" madeyoulook@localhost wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 2:27 pm, "Rich" madeyoulook@localhost wrote:

I'm in the market for a portable generator and just need it to run the
fridge the furnace and just small things after that. I went on a few web
sites and they seem to be geared to running your whole house instead of
just
a few things to get past the storm or what ever. I live SW of Chicago and
the longest I've been without power was 3 days when a tornado came
through.
I would like to buy one that would get me by for a day or two at the most
and only run the basics. What I'm having trouble with is sizing the unit
to
my needs. Sump pump, furnace, fridge and some lighting but I have all
compact fluorescents.

Thanks for any advice, especially from someone that has this basic setup,
Rich

Something else to consider, is how you balance the load so you dont
burn our the unit, its two legs make 220, using only one is not
correct, thats where a transfer panel makes it work safely.

OK I've been looking at more units and switches and I think I'm going to use
my 16HP Briggs engine and get a 5500 watt PTO unit and make the generator
from that. Then use the money I didn't spend on an engine to get a transfer
switch and set this up properly.



Am I the only one that sees problems with this approach? Like
doesn't a normal generator unit have a more precise governor mechanism
to keep the speed/freq constant? And won't a 16HP engine use a hell
of a lot more gas than an engine correctly sized for a 5500 watt
generator?

On Apr 1, 8:10*am, wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:11*pm, "Rich" madeyoulook@localhost wrote:





"ransley" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 2:27 pm, "Rich" madeyoulook@localhost wrote:

I'm in the market for a portable generator and just need it to run the
fridge the furnace and just small things after that. I went on a few web
sites and they seem to be geared to running your whole house instead of
just
a few things to get past the storm or what ever. I live SW of Chicago and
the longest I've been without power was 3 days when a tornado came
through.
I would like to buy one that would get me by for a day or two at the most
and only run the basics. What I'm having trouble with is sizing the unit
to
my needs. Sump pump, furnace, fridge and some lighting but I have all
compact fluorescents.

Thanks for any advice, especially from someone that has this basic setup,
Rich

Something else to consider, is how you balance the load so you dont
burn our the unit, its two legs make 220, using only one is not
correct, thats where a transfer panel makes it work safely.

OK I've been looking at more units and switches and I think I'm going to use
my 16HP Briggs engine and get a 5500 watt PTO unit and make the generator
from that. Then use the money I didn't spend on an engine to get a transfer
switch and set this up properly.

Am I the only one that sees problems with this approach? * Like
doesn't a normal generator unit have a more precise governor mechanism
to keep the speed/freq constant? * And won't a 16HP engine use a hell
of a lot more gas than an engine correctly sized for a 5500 watt
generator?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are right the govenor wont keep a steady rpm when loading and
unloading he is going to have big swings that can damage things, cheap
gens often go from 125 to 100 under full load, my generac keeps it
near to 2 v with electronics and Honda EUs do maybe 1v

Norminn wrote:

wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:04:33 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:



Wait! You mean to say your going to run it in your garage?


Was planning on it. Before you get upset, look at the critical pats
of the construction this time.

Open window, open door, roof vents and an open air fan plus garage
door open at least 6 inches (more if rain allows.)




Yup that's the way people do it ... and still die

Do you have CO detectors around the house?


A few years ago, our condo maint. people were operating a generator in
the open-air atrium of our
building. Atrium is open on four sides, with roof over it. Our AC is
at the opposite end of the building from where they worked. We had an old
CO detector, no longer used because we have no gas appliances, in a box
in the laundry room. There
was enough CO given off outside to set off our alarm inside.

I recall reading about one death in Florida because the setting
described resembled a friend's home.
Had a generator going in their screened-in outdoor room. They woke up
dead. )

CO is a bit heavier than air. If the atrium was only open at the top
the result was to be expected.

wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:04:33 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:


Wait! You mean to say your going to run it in your garage?

Was planning on it. Before you get upset, look at the critical pats of the
construction this time.

Open window, open door, roof vents and an open air fan plus garage door open
at least 6 inches (more if rain allows.)



Yup that's the way people do it ... and still die

Do you have CO detectors around the house?

I'd not be too concerned. Doing this after being warned of the risk
serves to improve the gene pool.

Boden

Boden wrote:

Norminn wrote:

....
CO is a bit heavier than air. If the atrium was only open at the top
the result was to be expected.


CO is slightly lighter than air (insignificantly so).
CO is 28 g/mol.
Air is (roughly) an 80/20 mixute of N2 (28 g/mol) and O2 (32 g/mol).

On Mar 31, 2:06*pm, wrote:
On Mar 31, 2:33*pm, "cshenk" wrote:

Yes. *And rote answers without listening to the construction involved are
not as useful as you might think.

Consider this a 2 wall garage with roof and 2 walls missing and you are a
bit closer to the construction.

1 open window and a cracked garage door do not constitute "missing
walls."

What you fail to understand is how nasty and dangerous CO really is,
and what little it really takes to adversely affect your health for a
LONG time, if it doesn't kill you.

I ran my generator 10ft from my back door since that is how long my
connect cable was and registered CO in the house, if the garage is
attached its a bad idea to run one in a garage.