Hello All,

I have an issue with my goulds well pump recently cycling on and off in an
excessive mannor. By excessive I mean the pump will kick on and off several
times a minute while water is being used in the house.

The specifics: I have a 1/2 horse power goulds Jet water pump model J5S
installed in my basement that is pulling water from a point in my front yard
(no well). This pump feeds a Wellmate WM-6 bladder water tank. The pump is
around 4 years old and the tank is around 10.

I think the pump is working fine as when an upstream valve is turned on the
preasure gauge on the pump falls like a rock from 60lbs to 40lbs kicking the
pump on which makes the preasure fly like a rocket back up to 60lbs kicking
the pump back off. This then repeats over and over. The manual for the
pump indicates 4 things may cause this. 1 - a bad foot valve (I don't think
this is the case as the pump holds preasure when not in use). 2 - the pump
is more than 5 feet from the water tank (it is 2 feet away). 3 - there is a
valve between the pump and water tank causing resistance (there is no valve
placed there) and 4 - a waterlogged water tank.

Ok - I also have had the service panel in my house upgraded one week ago so
power was off to the whole house for about 5 hours last wednessday.
Yesterday I ran a new line to the pump so had power off to that for an hour.
I don't think that rewiring the pump could have caused this but I throw it
out there as a coincidental thing anyway.

Anyone have any ideas as to what may be happening? I'm suspecting something
with the tank but I'm open to expert opinions.

TIA

"Eric Scantlebury" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I have an issue with my goulds well pump recently cycling on and off in an
excessive mannor. By excessive I mean the pump will kick on and off
several times a minute while water is being used in the house.

The specifics: I have a 1/2 horse power goulds Jet water pump model J5S
installed in my basement that is pulling water from a point in my front
yard (no well). This pump feeds a Wellmate WM-6 bladder water tank. The
pump is around 4 years old and the tank is around 10.

I think the pump is working fine as when an upstream valve is turned on
the preasure gauge on the pump falls like a rock from 60lbs to 40lbs
kicking the pump on which makes the preasure fly like a rocket back up to
60lbs kicking the pump back off. This then repeats over and over. The
manual for the pump indicates 4 things may cause this. 1 - a bad foot
valve (I don't think this is the case as the pump holds preasure when not
in use). 2 - the pump is more than 5 feet from the water tank (it is 2
feet away). 3 - there is a valve between the pump and water tank causing
resistance (there is no valve placed there) and 4 - a waterlogged water
tank.

Ok - I also have had the service panel in my house upgraded one week ago
so power was off to the whole house for about 5 hours last wednessday.
Yesterday I ran a new line to the pump so had power off to that for an
hour. I don't think that rewiring the pump could have caused this but I
throw it out there as a coincidental thing anyway.

Anyone have any ideas as to what may be happening? I'm suspecting
something with the tank but I'm open to expert opinions.

TIA

You already have the most likely cause: #4 - waterlogged tank.

Don Young

"Don Young" wrote in message
...
You already have the most likely cause: #4 - waterlogged tank.

But the tank has a bladder. How do I determain if it is "waterlogged" which
should be impossible under normal circumstances?

Eric

I'm suspecting the tank too. Sounds waterlogged



"Eric Scantlebury" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I have an issue with my goulds well pump recently cycling on and off in an
excessive mannor. By excessive I mean the pump will kick on and off
several times a minute while water is being used in the house.

The specifics: I have a 1/2 horse power goulds Jet water pump model J5S
installed in my basement that is pulling water from a point in my front
yard (no well). This pump feeds a Wellmate WM-6 bladder water tank. The
pump is around 4 years old and the tank is around 10.

I think the pump is working fine as when an upstream valve is turned on
the preasure gauge on the pump falls like a rock from 60lbs to 40lbs
kicking the pump on which makes the preasure fly like a rocket back up to
60lbs kicking the pump back off. This then repeats over and over. The
manual for the pump indicates 4 things may cause this. 1 - a bad foot
valve (I don't think this is the case as the pump holds preasure when not
in use). 2 - the pump is more than 5 feet from the water tank (it is 2
feet away). 3 - there is a valve between the pump and water tank causing
resistance (there is no valve placed there) and 4 - a waterlogged water
tank.

Ok - I also have had the service panel in my house upgraded one week ago
so power was off to the whole house for about 5 hours last wednessday.
Yesterday I ran a new line to the pump so had power off to that for an
hour. I don't think that rewiring the pump could have caused this but I
throw it out there as a coincidental thing anyway.

Anyone have any ideas as to what may be happening? I'm suspecting
something with the tank but I'm open to expert opinions.

TIA

Air leaked out of tank: bad fill valve. OR Leak in bladder: water filled the
air half of the tank behind the bladder.

"Eric Scantlebury" wrote in message
...

"Don Young" wrote in message
...
You already have the most likely cause: #4 - waterlogged tank.

But the tank has a bladder. How do I determain if it is "waterlogged"
which should be impossible under normal circumstances?

Eric

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
Air leaked out of tank: bad fill valve. OR Leak in bladder: water filled
the air half of the tank behind the bladder.

So how does one test for this? The tank, when the pump has cycled to it's
normal 60 lbs high point, has 36 lbs of pressure at the air valve. I've
read a little about this and apparently it should read 4 lbs less than the
low kick in win no water. Does the 36 lbs translate to anything non drained
and fully preasurized?

"RBM" wrote in message
...
I'm suspecting the tank too. Sounds waterlogged

Right, I sort of agree just trying to figure out how to test for that with a
tank that has a bladder. Ideas?

Eric Scantlebury wrote:
"RBM" wrote in message
...
I'm suspecting the tank too. Sounds waterlogged

Right, I sort of agree just trying to figure out how to test for that with a
tank that has a bladder. Ideas?

Drain the tank entirely. If it's waterlogged, you'll be able to tell it
from the weight left in the tank from the water and the air pressure
will still be higher than it should be which normally would be 2-lb
below the cut in pressure.

If the leak isn't too bad, reset to the proper pressure and it will give
you a fair period of time before it gets excessively waterlogged again,
but a new tank is in your future sooner than later.

If you can do w/o water for a period, you can try to pressurized the air
side by a few pounds over the setpoint and see if that will force a
small amount of the water back across the barrier. This works better
for diaphragms than bladders, but sometimes can help. Needs a long time
for it to manage to make any real difference, however, unless the hole
is quite sizable, in which case the time of satisfactory operation will
be measured in days at best rather than weeks before the exercise must
be repeated.

--

On Feb 5, 7:22*pm, "Eric Scantlebury"
wrote:
"EXT" wrote in message

anews.com...

Air leaked out of tank: bad fill valve. OR Leak in bladder: water filled
the air half of the tank behind the bladder.

So how does one test for this? *The tank, when the pump has cycled to it's
normal 60 lbs high point, has 36 lbs of pressure at the air valve. *I've
read a little about this and apparently it should read 4 lbs less than the
low kick in win no water. *Does the 36 lbs translate to anything non drained
and fully preasurized?

You are checking your pre-charge at the wrong time. Correct is to
totally drain the tank, and set the pre-charge to 2 psi below the cut
in
pressure. Then turn pump back on.

I find it more than passing strange that the guage is reading 60 psi
but checking at the air valve only shows 36 psi. There is something
more than odd there, I would have said impossible prior to your post.
There should be no difference between the guage and air valve...well,
other than instrument vagaries.

Cause of pump short cycling can, in almost all cases, be traced to the
pre-charge (incorrect), a malfunctioning pressure switch (not all that
common), a water logged tank caused by a blown bladder or diaphragm.

If it is the bladder or diaphragm, I believe it was dpb who gave a
possible short-term fix for it but tank replacement is the proper
cure.

Harry K

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:22:00 -0500, "Eric Scantlebury"
wrote:


"EXT" wrote in message
tanews.com...
Air leaked out of tank: bad fill valve. OR Leak in bladder: water filled
the air half of the tank behind the bladder.

So how does one test for this? The tank, when the pump has cycled to it's
normal 60 lbs high point, has 36 lbs of pressure at the air valve. I've
read a little about this and apparently it should read 4 lbs less than the
low kick in win no water. Does the 36 lbs translate to anything non drained
and fully preasurized?


You said in your original post that when you run water after the pump
has cycled the pressure drops like a stone to 40 lbs. This isn't
right, the pressure should drop gradually as you run water; that's
what the tank is for. This combined with your measurement above makes
me think your tank has lost its air charge, or most of it. If the
bladder had failed, you probably would have had water leak out the air
valve when you checked the pressure. But if you just put a gauge on
there you might not have noticed. take the cap off the valve, and
depress the stem with a small screwdriver and see if any water comes
out at all. If so, replace the tank. If not, try draining the tank
and with the water drain valve still open, recharge the tank to 2lbs
less than cut-in pressure. If this works, great, but it probably
won't last, since whatever caused the air to leak out will probably
happen again.

Another (remote) possibility is that you've got sediment and debris
totally blocking the tank inlet so that it is effectively out of the
picture. If you don't see the air pressure change while the pump is
cycling on and off, I would suspect this as the cause.

HTH,

Paul F.

Eric,


The bladder will slowly "leak" air even when everything is fine. Haven't
you noticed that tires and balloons go flat after a while? Get an air gauge
and check the bladder. With the tank empty of water the air pressure should
be a few psi below the cut-on pressure

Dave M.

Bubba wrote:
....
If all that doesnt help, unscrew the tank from the boiler ...

???

This is a potable water system pressure tank, not a heating system...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Bubba wrote:
...
If all that doesnt help, unscrew the tank from the boiler ...

???

This is a potable water system pressure tank, not a heating system...

Correct. I am talking about my incomming potable not my hot water tank.

On Feb 5, 5:27*pm, "Eric Scantlebury"
wrote:
Hello All,

I have an issue with my goulds well pump recently cycling on and off in an
excessive mannor. *By excessive I mean the pump will kick on and off several
times a minute while water is being used in the house.
SNIP

Hey, folks I am guessing an EASY reason for this. He had the power
turned off quite a bit so he says. If, like at my house, the kids and
wife ignore me when I say DON'T USE WATER when the power is off,
that's what happened....Drained the tank, no input from the
pump.....yahda yahda yahda.....


Solution, turn off the main water cut-off when you cut the power. Wife
and kids ain't happy, but saves me hassling with the tank later.....

On Feb 6, 8:32*am, "Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 "
wrote:
Eric Scantlebury wrote:
Hello All,

I have an issue with my goulds well pump recently cycling on and off in an
excessive mannor. *By excessive I mean the pump will kick on and off several
times a minute while water is being used in the house.

The specifics: *I have a 1/2 horse power goulds Jet water pump model J5S
installed in my basement that is pulling water from a point in my front yard
(no well). *This pump feeds a Wellmate WM-6 bladder water tank. *The pump is
around 4 years old and the tank is around 10.

I think the pump is working fine as when an upstream valve is turned on the
preasure gauge on the pump falls like a rock from 60lbs to 40lbs kicking the
pump on which makes the preasure fly like a rocket back up to 60lbs kicking
the pump back off. *This then repeats over and over. *The manual for the
pump indicates 4 things may cause this. *1 - a bad foot valve (I don't think
this is the case as the pump holds preasure when not in use). *2 - the pump
is more than 5 feet from the water tank (it is 2 feet away). *3 - there is a
valve between the pump and water tank causing resistance (there is no valve
placed there) and 4 - *a waterlogged water tank.

Ok - I also have had the service panel in my house upgraded one week ago so
power was off to the whole house for about 5 hours last wednessday.
Yesterday I ran a new line to the pump so had power off to that for an hour.
I don't think that rewiring the pump could have caused this but I throw it
out there as a coincidental thing anyway.

Anyone have any ideas as to what may be happening? *I'm suspecting something
with the tank but I'm open to expert opinions.

TIA

There is or should be an air stem *on the top of your tank. put some air
into it. Liquid does not compress, air does.

--
Blattus Slafaly *? 3 * * *7/8- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Errm...He has a bladder tank. It doesn't matter how long, or how
often the power is off - the precharge won't disappear....well it
could if the bladder is broken.

Harry K

For anyone who is interested and just for the postarity of the post I figure
I'd update what I've done.

Ok, I drained the wellmate - seemed like more than 20 gallons came out, but
not much more. I then presurized the tank to 45lbs of air and left it for
an hour.

When I came back I still had "close" to 45lbs but not quite. I think the
bladder has a very small leak and over the last 4 years or so has caused the
"waterlog".

I put 38 lbs of pressure in the bladder (I let some air out) and put power
on the pump. Now everything seems to work "normal". My short cycling has
gone away - though since it has I guess I have "decided" I need a new water
tank in my future.

Thanks all for the suggestions - It was a great help.

Eric

In article ,
"Eric Scantlebury" wrote:

For anyone who is interested and just for the postarity of the post I figure
I'd update what I've done.

Ok, I drained the wellmate - seemed like more than 20 gallons came out, but
not much more. I then presurized the tank to 45lbs of air and left it for
an hour.

When I came back I still had "close" to 45lbs but not quite. I think the
bladder has a very small leak and over the last 4 years or so has caused the
"waterlog".

I put 38 lbs of pressure in the bladder (I let some air out) and put power
on the pump. Now everything seems to work "normal". My short cycling has
gone away - though since it has I guess I have "decided" I need a new water
tank in my future.

Thanks all for the suggestions - It was a great help.

Eric

Updates are always appreciated. For posterity, though, starting a new
thread for the update is counterproductive.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Updates are always appreciated. For posterity, though, starting a new
thread for the update is counterproductive.

It's not on a new thread. Just a new subject (within the thread) so that
people who track newsgroups by posting tree see that I've come to a
conclusion within the thread (and not just asking another question - and
thus not reading). Sorry if your news reader or your choice of browsing
preferences precludes you from seeing that.

Smitty Two wrote:

clipped


Updates are always appreciated. For posterity, though, starting a new
thread for the update is counterproductive.


Just for you, Smitty )

In article ,
"Eric Scantlebury" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Updates are always appreciated. For posterity, though, starting a new
thread for the update is counterproductive.

It's not on a new thread. Just a new subject (within the thread) so that
people who track newsgroups by posting tree see that I've come to a
conclusion within the thread (and not just asking another question - and
thus not reading). Sorry if your news reader or your choice of browsing
preferences precludes you from seeing that.

ah-so. got it. My "browsing preferences" include deleting read messages,
so this one showed up isolated. You stand acquitted.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Eric Scantlebury" wrote:

ah-so. got it. My "browsing preferences" include deleting read messages,
so this one showed up isolated. You stand acquitted.

Thank you :-)