For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

On Mar 3, 9:42 am, wrote:
For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

It sound like your pump needs to be replaced after 30 years. To do
this you would contact the company who drilled the well. Their name
should be on the well. Where I live the driller has to clearly mark
their name on the well. If they can't be found then you will have to
hire another similar company.

Usually a plumber won't work on your well. You have to hire a well
drilling company. They will have to pull 180 feet of casing out of
the well with pump attached. It is a tough job. Best to have a
replacement ready to go.

On 3 Mar 2007 07:42:48 -0800, wrote:

For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

Some sort of automatic circuit breaker? If the well IS dry, that might
explain the pump overheating (water would keep it cooler).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Mar 3, 10:42?am, wrote:
For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

sounds like the problem is in the well call any well service company
doesnt have to be the one who drilled it . check around some will come
out and give a free est. thanks scott

On Mar 3, 9:42 am, wrote:
For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

Ruptured bladder in pressure tank will cause somewhat similar symptoms
when the tank becomes waterlogged..

On Mar 3, 7:12 pm, "Bob S." wrote:
On Mar 3, 9:42 am, wrote:





For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

Ruptured bladder in pressure tank will cause somewhat similar symptoms
when the tank becomes waterlogged..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Harry K

On Mar 3, 9:51 pm, "Harry K" wrote:


Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Sorry, you're right. I read too fast and missed the "when empty"
part.
Bob S.

"Bob S." wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 3, 9:51 pm, "Harry K" wrote:


Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Sorry, you're right. I read too fast and missed the "when empty"
part.
Bob S.

Something "ain't right!"

Just WTF "kicks" the pump off? If it's the pressure switch then the tank
is waterlogges or the pressure switch is messed up.

Or is the pump "kicking off" because of it's built in thermal overload? If
that's the case then it's call the well company and pull out the pump. Did
pumps have "in the pump" thermal overloads back then? (Last summer we had
to replace a 30 year old pump. I don't know whether it had a thermal
overload. The new pump (2 wire, BTW) definitely does.

On Mar 3, 10:15 pm, "Bob S." wrote:
On Mar 3, 9:51 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Sorry, you're right. I read too fast and missed the "when empty"
part.
Bob S.

Wait, maybe I apologized too fast. How does he know the tank is empty?
If the tank is waterlogged from a split in the bladder, the water
between the tank wall & bladder wouldn't drain off. There would still
be air at the top of the tank to give a pressure reading, but pressure
switch operation would be very squirrley. That's what happened to
mine, but I had the additional clue of rusty water when it sat
overnight. I still think it is a "possibility".

On Mar 3, 8:35 pm, "Bob S." wrote:
On Mar 3, 10:15 pm, "Bob S." wrote:

On Mar 3, 9:51 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Sorry, you're right. I read too fast and missed the "when empty"
part.
Bob S.

Wait, maybe I apologized too fast. How does he know the tank is empty?
If the tank is waterlogged from a split in the bladder, the water
between the tank wall & bladder wouldn't drain off. There would still
be air at the top of the tank to give a pressure reading, but pressure
switch operation would be very squirrley. That's what happened to
mine, but I had the additional clue of rusty water when it sat
overnight. I still think it is a "possibility".

Good point but I don't see it going to that extreme. He did say he
had raised the pressure more than 10 pounds IIRC. That much air would
have at least changed the period of short cycling.

I am stumped as to why it would do it in 1 sec. I can't even see an
overheat condition ocurring that fast.

Harry K

On Mar 3, 8:32 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
"Bob S." wrote in message

ups.com...

On Mar 3, 9:51 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Sorry, you're right. I read too fast and missed the "when empty"
part.
Bob S.

Something "ain't right!"

Just WTF "kicks" the pump off? If it's the pressure switch then the tank
is waterlogges or the pressure switch is messed up.

Or is the pump "kicking off" because of it's built in thermal overload? If
that's the case then it's call the well company and pull out the pump. Did
pumps have "in the pump" thermal overloads back then? (Last summer we had
to replace a 30 year old pump. I don't know whether it had a thermal
overload. The new pump (2 wire, BTW) definitely does.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am stumped as to cause. I can't see a thermal overload happening in
1 sec run time. Overload trip due to shot pump bearings, something
nearly seized up? I would say there is something seriously wrong
with the pump and it needs to be pulled.

Harry K

I am stumped as to cause. I can't see a thermal overload happening in
1 sec run time. Overload trip due to shot pump bearings, something
nearly seized up? I would say there is something seriously wrong
with the pump and it needs to be pulled.

Well, again, WTF trips the pump off?

If you trust yourself not to get electrocuted, you might pull the cover off
the pressure switch and, at first, just object the operation. If it clicks
ON and then clicks OFF after a second then, like it or not, you have a
"situation."



Harry K

On Mar 4, 6:17 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
I am stumped as to cause. I can't see a thermal overload happening in
1 sec run time. Overload trip due to shot pump bearings, something
nearly seized up? I would say there is something seriously wrong
with the pump and it needs to be pulled.

Well, again, WTF trips the pump off?


Aye, there's the rub Is it the pressure switch or an overload
switch on the pump?

If you trust yourself not to get electrocuted, you might pull the cover off
the pressure switch and, at first, just object the operation. If it clicks
ON and then clicks OFF after a second then, like it or not, you have a
"situation."

snip

I think that is the second time you mentioned the pressure switch. I
gave myself another installement on the flat forehead syndrom by
slapping myself there. Before I paid anyone to pull the pump, I would
replace the pressure switch - That eliminates the cheapest and fastest
and simplest possible cause.

Harry K

I think that is the second time you mentioned the pressure switch. I
gave myself another installement on the flat forehead syndrom by
slapping myself there. Before I paid anyone to pull the pump, I would
replace the pressure switch - That eliminates the cheapest and fastest
and simplest possible cause.

Well, if you are up to replacing the pressure switch then exposed wired
holds no terror for you.

Just take the cover off and WATCH. If you have a VERY DRY piece of wood
you can manually force the switch into operate regardless of what the
pressure is. It could be that the "dead" zone (the distance between the
low and high points) has been reduced because of some problem.


Harry K

On Mar 3, 10:42 am, wrote:
For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??


And the winner is!!!

Pump is shot, Tank is shot.

After 30 years of scale, sediment, and hard livin' the arteries of the
tank got clogged. There are three areas of concern to the tank
reducer 1 inch from tank to 3/4 for house, the 90 degree turn at the
bottom of the tank, and the dispurser just inside the pressure tank
(deflects the water so it doesn't blast into the bottom of the air
bladder). These had reduced down to about 1/4 inch due to scale. When
the pump turned on, there was suffecient resistance that caused the
pump to stop. After the reset it attempted again.. Each time there was
enough water getting through to raise the PSI a pound or so.
Eventually after 30 min or so the tank would come to full pressure.

After shortcycling so much over 36 hours, the pump finally kicked the
bucket. The controller would still call for water every minute or so,
but it took 8 hours of trying to get the tank filled.

When we pulled the pump the inlet screen was 75% plugged. After 32.5
years it was time to send it to the big well in the sky...

Thanks for all your input!

On Mar 5, 6:53 am, wrote:
On Mar 3, 10:42 am, wrote:





For the first time I'm having issues with an older pump. Currently the
pump is short cycling.. Here are the specs.

1/3 hp pump down about 180 feet (Pump is original at 30 years old)
Well recharge rate it about 1gpm
WellxTrol 20gal tank
Pressure Switch is set to 44-64psi

The pump kicks on at 44psi, runs for a 1 second, then turns off for
45-60 seconds
It takes 15-20 to bring the tank up to 64psi, running 1 sec on 45 off
the entire time.

I checked the tank pressure when it was empty and it was at 25psi.. I
charged to 38 and refilled -- still short cycled, I charged to 42psi
(manufacturers recomendation of 2psi below cutin) and it still short
cycled.

I don;t think the well is dry as the short cycling was observed last
evening and this morning (12 hours of recharge on the well).

Any thoughts??

And the winner is!!!

Pump is shot, Tank is shot.

After 30 years of scale, sediment, and hard livin' the arteries of the
tank got clogged. There are three areas of concern to the tank
reducer 1 inch from tank to 3/4 for house, the 90 degree turn at the
bottom of the tank, and the dispurser just inside the pressure tank
(deflects the water so it doesn't blast into the bottom of the air
bladder). These had reduced down to about 1/4 inch due to scale. When
the pump turned on, there was suffecient resistance that caused the
pump to stop. After the reset it attempted again.. Each time there was
enough water getting through to raise the PSI a pound or so.
Eventually after 30 min or so the tank would come to full pressure.



Now there is something I never heard of before. Learn something new
every day I guess.

After shortcycling so much over 36 hours, the pump finally kicked the
bucket. The controller would still call for water every minute or so,
but it took 8 hours of trying to get the tank filled.

When we pulled the pump the inlet screen was 75% plugged. After 32.5
years it was time to send it to the big well in the sky...

Thanks for all your input!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, not odd at all that a pump needs replacing after 30 years.

Thanks for the followup.
Harry K

On 4 Mar 2007 07:17:51 -0800, "Harry K"
wrote:

On Mar 3, 8:32 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
"Bob S." wrote in message

ups.com...

On Mar 3, 9:51 pm, "Harry K" wrote:

Except that isn't his problem. He has changed the pre-charge
correctly witht the tank empty so there is plenty of air in it.

Sorry, you're right. I read too fast and missed the "when empty"
part.
Bob S.

Something "ain't right!"

Just WTF "kicks" the pump off? If it's the pressure switch then the tank
is waterlogges or the pressure switch is messed up.

Or is the pump "kicking off" because of it's built in thermal overload? If
that's the case then it's call the well company and pull out the pump. Did
pumps have "in the pump" thermal overloads back then? (Last summer we had
to replace a 30 year old pump. I don't know whether it had a thermal
overload. The new pump (2 wire, BTW) definitely does.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am stumped as to cause. I can't see a thermal overload happening in
1 sec run time. Overload trip due to shot pump bearings, something
nearly seized up? I would say there is something seriously wrong
with the pump and it needs to be pulled.


Clog or a closed valve between the pump and the tank?