greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole
that i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one
inch = forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet,
a quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet.
using the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from
the pole to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property
extends at least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a
surveyor is this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj


While it seems accurate, is the pole in the same place? The one in front of
my house was moved last year.

The plat often has a description to follow also. It gives a reference point
and measurement from that point. If you do not have it, the original
surveyor my be able to provide it at a nominal cost. There should be no
reason for a new survey, just a clarification of the existing one. Once
done, put in a permanent marker.

cj wrote:
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole
that i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one
inch = forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet,
a quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet.
using the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from
the pole to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property
extends at least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a
surveyor is this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

Hmmm,
Can't you find pegs buried at 4 corners? The iron rod survey people
drove into ground. Metal detector comes in handy. You can rent a
detector from ental outfit. With the map you can get pretty close
to them and start digging.

CJ,

You say that you are working from a "copy" of a survey drawing. Why do
you believe that this copy maintained the scale of the original drawing?
As Mr. Hwang has said, find the property line markers. They should be
well described on your copy. A taut string between the two appropriate
markers may settle your dispute.

Dave M.

On Oct 13, 11:00 am, cj wrote:
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole
that i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one
inch = forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet,
a quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet.
using the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from
the pole to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property
extends at least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a
surveyor is this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

Poles are put on the property line so often that people often assume
they always mark the property. Not so. For example on my lot the pole
is 4' on my side of the line.
It is also fairly common for surveys taken many years apart to show
some variation from the original survey, but it is usually measured in
inches and not feet.

Bob

"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj


The drawings are only close. To find the exact property lines you go by the
reference points and shoot a line (pull a string is simple) between the
points. The reference points are known things on or near the property and
then a distance and direction is given from those points on the deed or map.

If a survey was done 5 years ago there should be stakes of flags still there
at the corners of the property.

on 10/13/2007 12:32 PM Ralph Mowery said the following:
"cj" wrote in message
...

greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj



The drawings are only close. To find the exact property lines you go by the
reference points and shoot a line (pull a string is simple) between the
points. The reference points are known things on or near the property and
then a distance and direction is given from those points on the deed or map.

If a survey was done 5 years ago there should be stakes of flags still there
at the corners of the property.


Wooden stakes and flags have been known to disappear at night when a
neighbor doesn't agree with them.
It's best to have permanent markers (metal rods or pipes, set in
concrete) installed when a survey is done. It may cost a little more for
the extra work, but it is worth it.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If you have a 1:1 exact copy of the survey, then that will work. Is
there a "scale" right on the paper? If so, does it indicate the 40' and is
it exactly 1 inch? If so, you're OK.
IF there is no scale, just a statement that 1" = 40', then it may not be
accurate. In fact, it probably isn't.
The other problem is the reference point you're using. Can you tell
whether it was measured from the outside of the pole, or from the center of
the pole?

Here, if we have such a question, we can go to the assessor's office in town
and get a look at the actual survey representation. You could try that if
it's that important.
You could also call whoever made that survey. If they're in a good mood,
they might just look at it for you and give you the number you want. Worst
case they might want a couple dollars to give you specific information that
you spec to them. Certainly cheaper than another full survey.

And finally, it's not unusual to have errors in surveys for a lot of reasons
but in general based on the "starting point" of each survey and what that
point is referenced to. So, is it a case of you and your neighbor
interpreting the surveys differently, or do they match up otherwise? A
survey to find a property line with a known accuracy of, say, +,- 1", may be
very costly compared to a standard survey.

So, you could both be right if you each have different surveys. If it's
just interpreting them, then it's a lot easier to settle. That's one of
several reasons that "setbacks" exist.

HTH

Pop`



cj wrote:
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of
our shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done
about 5 years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a
telephone pole that i am using as a reference point. on the survey
the scale is one inch = forty feet. given that, could one say a half
inch equals 20 feet, a quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of
an inch equals 5 feet. using the pole as a reference, i measured
about a heavy sixteenth from the pole to the lot line on the survey
map. seems to me that my property extends at least 2 feet past the
pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is this a somewhat
accurate way of measuring?. thanks, cj

"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj


No! The surveyor was in to property lines. The pole may not be accurately
placed in the drawing. Find some corners.

cj wrote:
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole
that i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one
inch = forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet,
a quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet.
using the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from
the pole to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property
extends at least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a
surveyor is this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj



No.

The only accurate measurement is to shoot a line between corner markers.
The copy of the survey "map" is not worth the paper it is printed on.

wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:25:06 -0700, Bob wrote:

It is also fairly common for surveys taken many years apart to show
some variation from the original survey, but it is usually measured in
inches and not feet.

The engineering company that was laying out the community my wife
built used to always tell here in these lines are within a foot of
being right you are lucky. The satellite pictures at leepa.org (the
property assessor) are off by as much as 3 feet from recent surveys.
My next door neighbor has had 3 surveys in the last 10 years and none
agree. There are 3 corner markers driven in the northwest corner of my
lot that would barely be covered by a 30 gallon trash can

Property in back of my house has changed hands several times and stakes
keep moving. Nice because I gained a couple of feet in the last survey.
I heard that in a lot of surveys, surveyors may not even come out (they
do a paper survey) unless you want markers.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:00:37 -0400, cj wrote:

greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole
that i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one
inch = forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet,
a quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet.
using the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from
the pole to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property
extends at least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a
surveyor is this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj


Use a metal detector to find the property poles buried in the ground.

David L. Martel wrote:

CJ,

You say that you are working from a "copy" of a survey drawing. Why do
you believe that this copy maintained the scale of the original drawing?
As Mr. Hwang has said, find the property line markers. They should be
well described on your copy. A taut string between the two appropriate
markers may settle your dispute.

Dave M.


the copy was obtained from my construction code authority office.the gal
behind the counter said that is the official copy obtained from the
surveyor who laid out our community. it is a large print, about 2 foot
wide by three foot long. we moved in after the survey was done and i
have reason to believe that another neighbor pulled up the original
markers..
thanks, cj

"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

No one asked why you care.
My neighbors and I have kinda agreed on where we take care of the grass, but
I haven't the faintest idea where the property lines are. (except that I
have deck that extends 6" into my neighbors yard; 16 years ago the lawyer
said it doesn't matter, and it seems not to have.)

When you or he decide to sell it could be a big problem. I wouldnt
close with someone infringing on a property I was buying nor would a
want a property that was infringing on the neighbor's. It will only
lead to trouble

No one asked why you care.
My neighbors and I have kinda agreed on where we take care of the grass, but
I haven't the faintest idea where the property lines are. (except that I
have deck that extends 6" into my neighbors yard; 16 years ago the lawyer
said it doesn't matter, and it seems not to have.)

"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

The pole has nothing to do with the actual property line. If you and your
neighbor cannot find the actual survey markers and agree that they are
correct, you may be able to get a new survey that you both agree with. If
you can not come to an agreement on your own, that's what the courts are
for. Other than just having something to disagree and squabble about, the
exact location of a property line is often not very important.

Don Young

My house has sold 4 times since the deck was built, and his twice. Just
doesn't seem to be a problem.

wrote in message
ps.com...
When you or he decide to sell it could be a big problem. I wouldnt
close with someone infringing on a property I was buying nor would a
want a property that was infringing on the neighbor's. It will only
lead to trouble

No one asked why you care.
My neighbors and I have kinda agreed on where we take care of the grass,
but
I haven't the faintest idea where the property lines are. (except that I
have deck that extends 6" into my neighbors yard; 16 years ago the lawyer
said it doesn't matter, and it seems not to have.)

Don't know where you live in NJ no one with half a brain will close
when there is an obvious infringement of property line. The houses
being sold so frequently may indicate there WAS a problem. I'd
probably the Sawzall to the deck that was on my side if someone tried
that to me

On Oct 14, 12:03 am, "Toller" wrote:
My house has sold 4 times since the deck was built, and his twice. Just
doesn't seem to be a problem.

wrote in message

ps.com...



When you or he decide to sell it could be a big problem. I wouldnt
close with someone infringing on a property I was buying nor would a
want a property that was infringing on the neighbor's. It will only
lead to trouble

No one asked why you care.
My neighbors and I have kinda agreed on where we take care of the grass,
but
I haven't the faintest idea where the property lines are. (except that I
have deck that extends 6" into my neighbors yard; 16 years ago the lawyer
said it doesn't matter, and it seems not to have.)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 13, 8:32 pm, "Don Young" wrote:
"cj" wrote in message

... greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

The pole has nothing to do with the actual property line. If you and your
neighbor cannot find the actual survey markers and agree that they are
correct, you may be able to get a new survey that you both agree with. If
you can not come to an agreement on your own, that's what the courts are
for. Other than just having something to disagree and squabble about, the
exact location of a property line is often not very important.

Don Young

And then there are those that can't agree on anything whether it is
right or wrong. They just love to disagree.I have a fried who is that
minded. Absolutely nothing is positive in his life. What a sad way to
live.

Having lived thru a property line war as a kid My folks and
neighbors really got into it spite fence included. having just driven
by our old home I see my grandma must of been right, a new spiffey
fence is located where she said it should be close to the old
offenders home. their spite fence caused driveway troubles

In any case around here the ORIGINAL surveyor if done for YOU, will
come back and flag the lines or stake them for a modest fee, a
fraction of the original cost......

If its just a matter of grass cutting best to ignore issue, esclating
dispute can cause much grief

Toller wrote:

"cj" wrote in message
...

greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj


No one asked why you care.
My neighbors and I have kinda agreed on where we take care of the grass, but
I haven't the faintest idea where the property lines are. (except that I
have deck that extends 6" into my neighbors yard; 16 years ago the lawyer
said it doesn't matter, and it seems not to have.)


the reason i care is that my neighbor dug up some very old and full
lilac bushes that gave me a great deal of privacy. now there is a big
hole in what was once a 75 foot wall of green. i plan on replacing the
now gone wall of green that will be indisputably on my side of the fence
cj

Toller wrote:
My house has sold 4 times since the deck was built, and his twice. Just
doesn't seem to be a problem.

It's not a problem until someone decides to make it so...then, depending
on who and what the circumstances are, it might become one.

In a situation such as you described, if you have encroaching property
and the neighbor hasn't done anything to correct it, eventually it may
be claimed by someone on your side of the line that the additional
property actually belongs to them. Then, depending on whether the
adversely affected party really cares, they may have a problem defending
same...it all depends. As long as everybody involved is reasonably
levelheaded and nobody makes waves and all that, it can go on
indefinitely. All it may take is one sob at some point in the future to
create havoc...as someone else farther down noted, there a those who
seemingly look for any possible umbrage whether or not it really has any
bearing on their use of their property or not, simply, apparently often,
just for the pleasure of it. Then again, there are those on the other
side that seem to push their boundaries until somebody else pushes back.

--


--

no. get a metal detector and find the pins.

s


"cj" wrote in message
...
greetings, i am at odds with my neighbor over the exact placement of our
shared property line. i have a copy of a survey that was done about 5
years ago that shows our lots and on my lot there is a telephone pole that
i am using as a reference point. on the survey the scale is one inch =
forty feet. given that, could one say a half inch equals 20 feet, a
quarter inch equals 10 feet and an eighth of an inch equals 5 feet. using
the pole as a reference, i measured about a heavy sixteenth from the pole
to the lot line on the survey map. seems to me that my property extends at
least 2 feet past the pole. before i spend about $700 for a surveyor is
this a somewhat accurate way of measuring?.
thanks, cj

1 inch equal's 40' ??????
How big is this property?
Lou

on 10/15/2007 7:27 AM Lou said the following:
1 inch equal's 40' ??????
How big is this property?
Lou



It's actually how small is the survey copy he is using.
A 40' x 80' property would be shown as 1" x 2" at that scale.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Lou wrote:

1 inch equal's 40' ??????
How big is this property?
Lou

Or... how small is the plan? Maybe it's just a location certificate, in
which case all it certifies is that the house is within the boundaries.

Cheers,
John

On Oct 14, 10:20 pm, Stephen King wrote:
Stand in the middle of your yard and call out to the neighbor you
wanna fight.

I agree with hallerb on this one. Given that you want to put up a
fence and have stated that you cannot agree with your neighbor, the
only solution is to get a surveyor out there. You could approach the
neighbor and say that you want to be fair and make sure this is done
right and ask if he would share the cost. Even if he says no, then
I would get one out there. And as hallerb said, if you get the one
that did the last survey, it's shouldn't cost too much. When it's
done, make sure you put something permanent next to the steel
stakes. Driving a 1" steel pipe deep into the ground that can't be
easily pulled up is one way.

on 10/15/2007 11:24 AM said the following:
On Oct 14, 10:20 pm, Stephen King wrote:

Stand in the middle of your yard and call out to the neighbor you
wanna fight.


I agree with hallerb on this one. Given that you want to put up a
fence and have stated that you cannot agree with your neighbor, the
only solution is to get a surveyor out there. You could approach the
neighbor and say that you want to be fair and make sure this is done
right and ask if he would share the cost. Even if he says no, then
I would get one out there. And as hallerb said, if you get the one
that did the last survey, it's shouldn't cost too much. When it's
done, make sure you put something permanent next to the steel
stakes. Driving a 1" steel pipe deep into the ground that can't be
easily pulled up is one way.



If there is a building ordinance where one lives, a fence probably falls
under the 'set back' requirements and cannot be put up without a recent
survey.
I paid for a survey when I bought my property. and then again 4 years
later to put in a pool and security fence which bordered my property.
I really doubt that the neighbor would want to chip in, since he cannot
even agree on the property line.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 15 Oct 2007 02:20:37 GMT, Stephen King wrote:

Stand in the middle of your yard and call out to the neighbor you
wanna fight.

Our draw a line in the sand and call-out!

--
Oren

"I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."

willshak wrote:
on 10/15/2007 7:27 AM Lou said the following:
1 inch equal's 40' ??????
How big is this property?
Lou



It's actually how small is the survey copy he is using.
A 40' x 80' property would be shown as 1" x 2" at that scale.


Sounds like he is trying to find corners based on an annotated
subdivision plat map, not a proper survey map.

I agree with all the others- find the existing corner pins if they are
still there. If the deed specifies the corner angles (vs. just a lot
number), any 2 or 3 will do. Otherwise, bring back previous surveyor to
repin the corners (hopefully at a discount), or bite the bullet and pay
for a new survey that refers back to a recognized permanent landmark,
like a section corner or other monument that predates the subdivision.

Hey, you gotta expect stuff like this once in a while when you own land.
An expensive PITA to be sure, but what can you do? I have the skill set
to do it myself (having grown up carrying the transit and holding a
pole), but I'm not a registered licensed surveyor, so my opinion is
legally meaningless.

aem sends....