I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

John,

With a generator that size, there are actually two types of transfer switch you could use.

The type you'll see at Home Despot, which is the cheaper of the two, has individual switches for each circuit (typically
anywhere from 4 to 12 circuits). Each switch can be thrown one way to power its circuit from the main panel, or the other
way to power it from the generator. The advantage of this type of switch is you can select the circuits in advance to make
sure you don't overload the generator. The downside is versatility - only the circuits wired to the switch can be
generator-powered.

The alternative is a single large switch that switches the entire feed for your breaker panel between utility and generator
power. These switches cost more, and offer more versatility - you can power anything in the house from the generator,
subject of course to its power output limit. That's also the downside: if you're not careful, you can easily overload the
generator by trying to power too many things.

If you Google "noise level decibels" you'll find some info on the web about how loud 76 dB is. One page I found puts it
about halfway between "busy street traffic" at 70 and "vacuum cleaner" at 80.

Eric Law


"John" wrote in message ...
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know what to expect when the generator and transfer
switch is installed and hooked up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch hooked up into my
breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up
any of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't
know what equivalent noise level that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the other side of the
playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the
house if the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process with some sort of understanding. Thanks
for any input or other comments about the actual hooking up.

"John" wrote in message
...
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed

Ask whoever is going to install it if you can see one of his previous
installations.
It will sound like a lawnmower going all night. You will be extremely
popular with your neighbors, especially those still in the dark.
There is one a half mile away from me, and in my driveway it is louder than
my Honda.

On 28 Sep, 12:11, "John" wrote:
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

Check out this site:

http://www.smps.us/transferswitch.html

One option described there has you using one panel for your "utility-
company power only" circuits and a second panel for those circuits
designated as the ones you want powered during an emergency. The
utility company power, when available, will power both panels (and
therefore all circuits) but the automatic transfer switch will monitor
the power and switch the second panel to the generator when the
utility power goes away.

As noted at that site, many automatic switches come with the "second"
panel as part of the unit.

On 28 Sep, 12:11, "John" wrote:
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

Here's some descriptions of 76 decibels...

1 - Now for your heating and air conditioning system. The part of the
central air conditioner that sits outside is the condenser. There are
loud condensers and there are quiet condensers. A loud one will annoy
you (and your neighbors). Again, the quiet ones are usually the most
efficient. Choose an ENERGY STAR qualified system with a nominal sound
level of 76 decibels (db) or less, and talk to your contractor about
locating the condensing unit where it will be the most unobtrusive -
sonically and visually. Make sure walls or landscaping features do not
block airflow to the unit because that would reduce its efficiency.

2 - Directly in front of us is a big steel street plate covering a
hole. When an MTA bus drives over it, it emits a nasty whap. Schiff
whips out the meter: 92 decibels. Worse, it's pitched around 500
hertz. High-frequency notes like that hit us hard, because our ears
are optimized to pick them up (human speech is in the 500-to-2,000-
hertz range). Deep notes aren't as irritating, even when they're
louder. When an SUV drives by with bass that shakes our chests, it's a
healthy 76 decibels. But it's not as annoying as my cell phone, which
is only 73 decibels.

3 - At Allapattah Comstock Park, seventeen-year-old Noesterlin Sanchez
didn't seem to mind or even notice the rusty swing set's high-pitch
creak. Swinging away on a Monday afternoon, Sanchez's thirteen-year-
old twin cousins, Mella and Mello De la Cruz, cranked the swings up to
a blackboard-scratching 76 decibels. That number shot to 86 as an
ambulance screamed by, then a lawn mower wheezed to life, and finally
a jet passed so low overhead it looked like it might play chicken with
a city bus on NW 28th Street.

4 - Noise exposure levels for tilesetters

University of Washington researchers have been measuring the noise
exposures of construction workers. Among tilesetters, we found:
- the average level was 76 decibels across a full work shift
- one-fifth of work shifts were above the 8-hour limit of 85
decibels
- nearly one-third of work shifts had short periods of extremely high
levels (above 115 decibels)

5 - Freeway at 50 ft from pavement edge 10 a.m. . . . 76 dB
Living room music . . . 76 dB

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:39:19 -0700, DerbyDad03
wrote:

[snip]

1 - Now for your heating and air conditioning system. The part of the
central air conditioner that sits outside is the condenser.

The outdoor unit contains a condenser, fan, and compressor. The
compressor makes most of the noise.

[snip]
--
88 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Thanks for the solid info.


"John" wrote in message
...
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know
what to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and
hooked up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer
switch hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of
the different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give
up any of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am
looking at says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent
noise level that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed
directly on the other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main
breaker panel is located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away
from the house if the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to
observe the process with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input
or other comments about the actual hooking up.

Toller wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed

Ask whoever is going to install it if you can see one of his previous
installations.
It will sound like a lawnmower going all night. You will be extremely
popular with your neighbors, especially those still in the dark.
There is one a half mile away from me, and in my driveway it is louder than
my Honda.


You should hear how loud the Home Depot version Generac (looks like the
good one but isn't) units are. I helped my buddy put his in and I know
someone else who has one. When we started my buddies it felt like you
were standing next to a jet engine or in a room with 1,000 HP motors. I
can't imagine anyone living within a block of one putting up with it.

John wrote:

I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

I live just west of Ballimer (Baltimore - the city that slurs).
We just experienced the first of the usual Fall-Winter power
outages. A few years ago, we had no electricity for 6 days.
the usual outages last 1 to 3 days. We were considering a
generator until we heard one up close. At 100 to 150 feet
they don't sound that loud, but if you are in the house,
you have trouble hearing what people are saying.

Dick

I installed a Generac permanent generator with transfer switch a year ago
after facing two extended power outages here. The Generac design for the
transfer switch requires a dual breaker to be installed in your main panel
which passes power to the transfer switch. The transfer switch then
subdivides this feed into 12 circuits, each of which has its' own breaker in
the transfer switch panel. These 12 circuits are the ones were are supported
during a power outage, and are literally disconnected from their current 12
breakers in your main panel and connected into the corresponding 12 breakers
in your new transfer switch. You actually "recover" 12 breaker positions in
your main panel since the 12 breakers could be reused (assuming you have
enough total house capacity and panel capacity to do so). The feeds from
each of the 12 house circuits are attached to 12 conductors which Generac
supplies using wire nuts. The entire installation process is described in a
video which can be viewed on the web, or on a DVD which Generac also
provides.

The noise level of the Generac is not terribly loud, but similar to a lawn
mower / tractor of comparable capacity when running full load. The weekly
test mode for 12 minutes of run time runs unloaded at a lower noise level.
To those of us who have subsequently lived with the generator during an
outage, the sound of the generator is sweet music. It is the silence which
occurs when it is not running but needed that I would call deafening! I
would advise to simply put the generator away from the major sleeping areas
of the house, and non fret about it. The noise level inside the house is
totally moderate. My neighbors on both sides have Generacs, and there have
been literally several thousand sold in my area in the last year as a result
of a freak October ice storm which took out power for some people up to
nearly 3 weeks.

I would also suggest you seriously evaluate your total electrical demand
since 16KW is too much power for many homes unless you want to run air
conditioning, electric stove, or other big power users. The Generac smaller
models produce considerably more efficient and less expensive electricity
when used near their peak capacity, versus running a 16y KW generator at
half load. Not only do the operating costs drop, but the cost of the unit
itself is considerably less.

Good luck and let me know if I can help you further,
Smarty





panel.
"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
John wrote:

I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know
what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up
any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking
at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

I live just west of Ballimer (Baltimore - the city that slurs).
We just experienced the first of the usual Fall-Winter power
outages. A few years ago, we had no electricity for 6 days.
the usual outages last 1 to 3 days. We were considering a
generator until we heard one up close. At 100 to 150 feet
they don't sound that loud, but if you are in the house,
you have trouble hearing what people are saying.

Dick

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 03:52:46 GMT, "Smarty" wrote
Re Propane Generator and Transfer Switch:

The noise level of the Generac is not terribly loud, but similar to a lawn
mower / tractor of comparable capacity when running full load. The weekly
test mode for 12 minutes of run time runs unloaded at a lower noise level.
To those of us who have subsequently lived with the generator during an
outage, the sound of the generator is sweet music. It is the silence which
occurs when it is not running but needed that I would call deafening! I
would advise to simply put the generator away from the major sleeping areas
of the house, and non fret about it.

Good points and good advice. I might also suggest that if possible
build a small shed for the generator. The shed will lower the noise
level considerably. Note that I wrote "build". A small commercial shed
won't do unless you make a lot of modifications for ventilation.

When I installed my generator ( a loud cheap brand ) 15-years ago I
designed/built a small shed as it was cheaper and easier than having
to modify a commercial model. It works well to this day.

"John" wrote in :

I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to
know what to expect when the generator and transfer switch is
installed and hooked up. For example to what is the main power coming
from the transfer switch hooked up into my breaker panel? What
happens to the breakers of the different circuits that selected for
emergency operation. Do I give up any of the current open breaker
spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at says it operates at 76
decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level that is. At the
moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the other side of
the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is located.
I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if the
noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other
comments about the actual hooking up.


I just installed a 12 kw B&S generator at our cottage. It has a 60 amp
circuit breaker and has ample power for our needs. Even runs a couple of
base board heaters. In Canada you need a seperate house entry switch to
turn off the Hydro.

We have a 200 amp service & therefor required a 200 amp transfer switch. It
handles the whole cottage. It didn't make sense to me to put in a seperate
fuse panel just for the generator, so we switch the whole thing.

hydro comes into house entry switch and then goes to transfer switch
generator goes to transfer switch
output of transfer switch runs to main breaker panel

We use LP to run it and it starts automatically. (We have a lot of power
outages)

76 db is very noisy. Your neighbours will love you. Ours is 65 db at 20 ft
I suggest you look for another brand. This is what I bought.
http://www.homegeneratorsystems.com/...pecs.cfm#specs

Bob

On Sep 29, 8:22 am, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 03:52:46 GMT, "Smarty" wrote
Re Propane Generator and Transfer Switch:

The noise level of the Generac is not terribly loud, but similar to a lawn
mower / tractor of comparable capacity when running full load. The weekly
test mode for 12 minutes of run time runs unloaded at a lower noise level.
To those of us who have subsequently lived with the generator during an
outage, the sound of the generator is sweet music. It is the silence which
occurs when it is not running but needed that I would call deafening! I
would advise to simply put the generator away from the major sleeping areas
of the house, and non fret about it.

Good points and good advice. I might also suggest that if possible
build a small shed for the generator. The shed will lower the noise
level considerably. Note that I wrote "build". A small commercial shed
won't do unless you make a lot of modifications for ventilation.

When I installed my generator ( a loud cheap brand ) 15-years ago I
designed/built a small shed as it was cheaper and easier than having
to modify a commercial model. It works well to this day.

Honda has some of the quietest units and publishes db ratings and
comparisons. 87 is alot and the low frequency of the sound travels
through walls, it rumbles as its a large motor. The lower the
frequency, the longer the wave and the more difficulty you have in
stopping it. You wont like it. Honda has portables you dont really
notice at 15ft or so, or be annoyed. You will have a monthly test mode
which will consume a noticable amount of gas. If outages are rare
consider a portable you wheel out and plug into a transfer swtch and
manualy control. How often does the power go out and for how long, If
its once a year for a few hours a portable is best, like a Tri Fuel
Honda. The Generac is a 3600 rpm unit with maybe 2-3000 hr life, An
inverter series Honda or yamaha run easy at 1600-1800 rpm can easily
last 10,000 hours, rpm is load dependant unlike what you are looking
at, unless their design has changed.

ransley wrote:

....
Honda. The Generac is a 3600 rpm unit with maybe 2-3000 hr life, An
inverter series Honda or yamaha run easy at 1600-1800 rpm can easily
last 10,000 hours, rpm is load dependant unlike what you are looking
at, unless their design has changed.


" ... rpm is load dependent ... "

Should only be slightly. Exactly what do you mean?

On Sep 29, 11:52 am, M Q wrote:
ransley wrote:

...

Honda. The Generac is a 3600 rpm unit with maybe 2-3000 hr life, An
inverter series Honda or yamaha run easy at 1600-1800 rpm can easily
last 10,000 hours, rpm is load dependant unlike what you are looking
at, unless their design has changed.

" ... rpm is load dependent ... "

Should only be slightly. Exactly what do you mean?

Most generators you buy are 1800 or 3600 rpm gas or diesel, under
15000 w or so gas, they are usualy 3600 rpm Honda and Yamaha have an
Inverter series that only run at the rpm needed to generate the power
needed, the generator is built into the motor on the small units. They
also provide clean power or sign wave, safe for all electronics. If
for example you use the Honda 3000w Inverter unit to generate a few
hundred watts it may only run at 900 rpm, this not only saves gas but
increases the life of the motor dramaticly. It is believed that
cutting an engines rpm in half increases its life 400%,at 900 rpm it
could last in theory 100,000 hours. 3600 rpm units last from 300-3000
hrs depending on who made them and how heavily you load them, but
Honda 2000 EU are known to last, some say they have gotten 12000 hrs
from running light loads on campers. The Generac is 3600 rpm even if
it produces no power, the Inverter units probably idle at 5-600 rpm,
keeping an easy load it might only run 1800 rpm and run 15 hrs on a
gallon of gas where the 3600 rpm units operate differently, Hondas
site explains it better and shows the increased fuel efficency of
their Inverter units. They cost maybe 3x that of the competition but
you get what you pay for, alt.energy.homepower is where you will get
better answers from alot of off - grid folks

ransley wrote:

On Sep 29, 11:52 am, M Q wrote:

ransley wrote:

...


Honda. The Generac is a 3600 rpm unit with maybe 2-3000 hr life, An
inverter series Honda or yamaha run easy at 1600-1800 rpm can easily
last 10,000 hours, rpm is load dependant unlike what you are looking
at, unless their design has changed.

" ... rpm is load dependent ... "

Should only be slightly. Exactly what do you mean?


Most generators you buy are 1800 or 3600 rpm gas or diesel, under
15000 w or so gas, they are usualy 3600 rpm Honda and Yamaha have an
Inverter series that only run at the rpm needed to generate the power
needed, the generator is built into the motor on the small units. They
also provide clean power or sign wave, safe for all electronics. If
for example you use the Honda 3000w Inverter unit to generate a few
hundred watts it may only run at 900 rpm, this not only saves gas but
increases the life of the motor dramaticly. It is believed that
cutting an engines rpm in half increases its life 400%,at 900 rpm it
could last in theory 100,000 hours. 3600 rpm units last from 300-3000
hrs depending on who made them and how heavily you load them, but
Honda 2000 EU are known to last, some say they have gotten 12000 hrs
from running light loads on campers. The Generac is 3600 rpm even if
it produces no power, the Inverter units probably idle at 5-600 rpm,
keeping an easy load it might only run 1800 rpm and run 15 hrs on a
gallon of gas where the 3600 rpm units operate differently, Hondas
site explains it better and shows the increased fuel efficency of
their Inverter units. They cost maybe 3x that of the competition but
you get what you pay for, alt.energy.homepower is where you will get
better answers from alot of off - grid folks


Ah. So the generator is not actually an AC generator, but probably a DC
generator with an inverter or other electronics to generate the 60Hz AC?
A normal AC generator would only produce 60Hz if it was running at the
design RPM of 1800 or 3600.
Clever idea.
Probably now economical because of spill over from photovoltaic industry.

On Sep 29, 6:45 pm, M Q wrote:
ransley wrote:
On Sep 29, 11:52 am, M Q wrote:

ransley wrote:

...

Honda. The Generac is a 3600 rpm unit with maybe 2-3000 hr life, An
inverter series Honda or yamaha run easy at 1600-1800 rpm can easily
last 10,000 hours, rpm is load dependant unlike what you are looking
at, unless their design has changed.

" ... rpm is load dependent ... "

Should only be slightly. Exactly what do you mean?

Most generators you buy are 1800 or 3600 rpm gas or diesel, under
15000 w or so gas, they are usualy 3600 rpm Honda and Yamaha have an
Inverter series that only run at the rpm needed to generate the power
needed, the generator is built into the motor on the small units. They
also provide clean power or sign wave, safe for all electronics. If
for example you use the Honda 3000w Inverter unit to generate a few
hundred watts it may only run at 900 rpm, this not only saves gas but
increases the life of the motor dramaticly. It is believed that
cutting an engines rpm in half increases its life 400%,at 900 rpm it
could last in theory 100,000 hours. 3600 rpm units last from 300-3000
hrs depending on who made them and how heavily you load them, but
Honda 2000 EU are known to last, some say they have gotten 12000 hrs
from running light loads on campers. The Generac is 3600 rpm even if
it produces no power, the Inverter units probably idle at 5-600 rpm,
keeping an easy load it might only run 1800 rpm and run 15 hrs on a
gallon of gas where the 3600 rpm units operate differently, Hondas
site explains it better and shows the increased fuel efficency of
their Inverter units. They cost maybe 3x that of the competition but
you get what you pay for, alt.energy.homepower is where you will get
better answers from alot of off - grid folks

Ah. So the generator is not actually an AC generator, but probably a DC
generator with an inverter or other electronics to generate the 60Hz AC?
A normal AC generator would only produce 60Hz if it was running at the
design RPM of 1800 or 3600.
Clever idea.
Probably now economical because of spill over from photovoltaic industry.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Right , if regular gens deviate from the design speed they dont
produce 120v 60 hz, cheap gens swing up to 20v and the coresponding
hz, so its common on a 350$ unit to go to 100v 50 hz under full load
and swing so much they damage anything with sensitive electronics,
like a microwave ot tv, A friend bought a new 550 unit and in 5
minutes it blew his new tv, only later he found out it was never set
right and was outputting 160v, probably running at 4000 rpm or so. The
inverter units are the way to go.

Snarty, Thanks for the in-depth reply.and the capacity info. John


"Smarty" wrote in message
news:i_jLi.322$R%1.124@trndny06...
I installed a Generac permanent generator with transfer switch a year ago
after facing two extended power outages here. The Generac design for the
transfer switch requires a dual breaker to be installed in your main panel
which passes power to the transfer switch. The transfer switch then
subdivides this feed into 12 circuits, each of which has its' own breaker
in the transfer switch panel. These 12 circuits are the ones were are
supported during a power outage, and are literally disconnected from their
current 12 breakers in your main panel and connected into the corresponding
12 breakers in your new transfer switch. You actually "recover" 12 breaker
positions in your main panel since the 12 breakers could be reused
(assuming you have enough total house capacity and panel capacity to do
so). The feeds from each of the 12 house circuits are attached to 12
conductors which Generac supplies using wire nuts. The entire installation
process is described in a video which can be viewed on the web, or on a DVD
which Generac also provides.

The noise level of the Generac is not terribly loud, but similar to a lawn
mower / tractor of comparable capacity when running full load. The weekly
test mode for 12 minutes of run time runs unloaded at a lower noise level.
To those of us who have subsequently lived with the generator during an
outage, the sound of the generator is sweet music. It is the silence which
occurs when it is not running but needed that I would call deafening! I
would advise to simply put the generator away from the major sleeping
areas of the house, and non fret about it. The noise level inside the
house is totally moderate. My neighbors on both sides have Generacs, and
there have been literally several thousand sold in my area in the last
year as a result of a freak October ice storm which took out power for
some people up to nearly 3 weeks.

I would also suggest you seriously evaluate your total electrical demand
since 16KW is too much power for many homes unless you want to run air
conditioning, electric stove, or other big power users. The Generac
smaller models produce considerably more efficient and less expensive
electricity when used near their peak capacity, versus running a 16y KW
generator at half load. Not only do the operating costs drop, but the cost
of the unit itself is considerably less.

Good luck and let me know if I can help you further,
Smarty





panel.
"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
John wrote:

I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know
what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and
hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer
switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up
any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking
at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise
level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel
is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

I live just west of Ballimer (Baltimore - the city that slurs).
We just experienced the first of the usual Fall-Winter power
outages. A few years ago, we had no electricity for 6 days.
the usual outages last 1 to 3 days. We were considering a
generator until we heard one up close. At 100 to 150 feet
they don't sound that loud, but if you are in the house,
you have trouble hearing what people are saying.

Dick

On Sep 28, 12:11 pm, "John" wrote:
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know what
to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and hooked
up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer switch
hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of the
different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give up any
of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am looking at
says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent noise level
that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed directly on the
other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main breaker panel is
located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away from the house if
the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to observe the process
with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input or other comments
about the actual hooking up.

Hi John,

I installed a Cummins Onan 20kw generator about two years ago as power
backup.

As some posters have said for transfer switches you have two options
(i) multiple smaller
switches which switch eash circuit individually (cheaper) and (ii) the
one big switch a.k.a. the
"Frankenstein switch" which does the whole thing (more expensive)

The main difference between the two is if you want auto cut over, or
are you O.K. with manual
cut over? Auto cut over is where the transfer switch is smart, upon
power loss, it will start
your generator, wait a while for everything to come up to speed, and
cut your power over.
For the Auto cut over you are looking at the Frankestein Switch. The
Transfer switch
is usually part of a set and comes with your generator. Typically
apart from power lines
you have control, battery top up lines, and coolant heater power lines
as well, between
the transfer switch unit and your generator.

Generators are noisy. 3,600 rpm generators are more noisy than the
1,800 rpm ones. But they
are cheaper to buy and cheaper to install. When I was looking there is
a fairly distinct
price cut over between up to 15kw, and those larger. Up to 15kw you
have air cooled, lawn mower
engine based units running at 3,600 rpm. Gravel pad installation.
generator liftable by four men.
Above 15 kw, you have car / tuck based engines, running at 1,800 rpm,
liquid cooled, spin on
oil filter, pressurized oil system. Concrete pad required and a
backhoe to lift to install.

If you are worried about noise, get a 1,800 rpm one. But they are
expensive, about 2 times the air
cooled ones. There big price differentiation is not on the unit, but
the installation costs. The 1,800
one will sound like a car running at 1,800 rpm parked outside. I have
mine ouside the garage
and away from sleeping areas. Note make sure your exhaust is in a well
ventalated area to avoid
carbon monoxide poisoning. I have an extra CO alarm in the room above
the generator just to
make sure no exhaust is comming back into the house.

Good luck with your installation.

Warmest regards, Mike.

M Q writes:

Ah. So the generator is not actually an AC generator, but probably a DC
generator with an inverter or other electronics to generate the 60Hz AC?

That's right. The generator just has to generate enough power at a
suitable voltage, and the inverter electronics synthesizes 60 Hz sine
waves no matter what speed the engine is running.

I'd guess the "generator" is actually a multiphase alternator whose
output is rectified to DC, for the same reason your car uses an
alternator instead of a DC generator: simple construction, no brushes to
wear.

A normal AC generator would only produce 60Hz if it was running at the
design RPM of 1800 or 3600.
Clever idea.
Probably now economical because of spill over from photovoltaic industry.

And large inverters used on boats, long-haul trucks, etc.

Dave

Again thanks to all for the great info. I'm proceeding with a 10kw
Guardian. I can offer some small info back to everyone: the installer told
me that their units are not guaranteed to start if the temperature is
below -20 deg. F. I asked him about the poster who had a freeze up and oil
blow out and he said it was probably your PVC valve that froze or clogged
because of cold. He offered a solution for us who live in very cold
climates. He has customers that put a small strip light in the cabinet which
is more than enough to prevent the problem. John


"John" wrote in message
...
I'm considering having a 16 kw generator installed and I'd like to know
what to expect when the generator and transfer switch is installed and
hooked up. For example to what is the main power coming from the transfer
switch hooked up into my breaker panel? What happens to the breakers of
the different circuits that selected for emergency operation. Do I give
up any of the current open breaker spots I have. The Guardian unit I am
looking at says it operates at 76 decibels. I don't know what equivalent
noise level that is. At the moment I am planning to have it placed
directly on the other side of the playroom wall as that is where the main
breaker panel is located. I also have a suitable spot about 20 feet away
from the house if the noise would be a problem. I'd like to be able to
observe the process with some sort of understanding. Thanks for any input
or other comments about the actual hooking up.

"John" wrote:

Again thanks to all for the great info. I'm proceeding with a 10kw
Guardian. I can offer some small info back to everyone: the installer told
me that their units are not guaranteed to start if the temperature is
below -20 deg. F. I asked him about the poster who had a freeze up and oil
blow out and he said it was probably your PVC valve that froze or clogged
because of cold. He offered a solution for us who live in very cold
climates. He has customers that put a small strip light in the cabinet which
is more than enough to prevent the problem.

Or at least one genset manufacturer sells a cold weather start kit which
consists of an electric blanket for the battery and and oil heater for the
motor. It automatically comes on when the temps drop so you aren't running
needlessly during the day.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars