I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?


YES

Return air is prohibited to be pulled from an equipment room by IMC.
Seal them off and add a new return to the hallway.

You need to make sure you still have adequate airflow after your changes.

On Aug 21, 11:04 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

YES

Return air is prohibited to be pulled from an equipment room by IMC.
Seal them off and add a new return to the hallway.

You need to make sure you still have adequate airflow after your changes.

Gorsh!

On Aug 21, 11:11 pm, wrote:
On Aug 21, 11:04 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:





wrote in message

roups.com...

I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

YES

Return air is prohibited to be pulled from an equipment room by IMC.
Seal them off and add a new return to the hallway.

You need to make sure you still have adequate airflow after your changes.

Gorsh!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't understand why the system would have any return vents in what
sounds like an unfinished basement utility room, let alone next to the
gas water heater. All your doing is sucking air out of the basement,
which has to come from somewhere, either outside or conditioned air
from upstairs, etc, which wastes energy. Having it near the water
heater of course is much worse, as it can interfere with the correct
combustion flow of the heater, easily suck up any CO from a
malfunctioing heater, etc.

wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com

wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin


Are you sure the duct is not make-up air for the furnace
and water heater? Check out this website for an easy to
understand explanation about the subject.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-e...systems-ga.htm

If you don't know, call someone, a knowledgeable friend or
service company. You could wind up with a carbon monoxide
problem if you tamper with the vent.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

Quote:
If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin


Are you sure the duct is not make-up air for the furnace
and water heater?


Re-read...

Quote:
If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Are you sure the duct is not make-up air for the furnace
and water heater?


Re-read...

Quote:
If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)


That seems quite odd. If the room is airtight, you should
still have it checked out by someone with knowledge of
proper ventilation. The problem you may have is explained
on the website. It might be solved by simply cutting a
small supply register into the duct coming off the air
handler. If I understood your original post, the furnace
is next to the water heater. It's puzzling why a duct would
be run to the attic for any other reason than make-up air.
If the duct is open to the attic, a powered attic vent could
cause the negative pressure. It's hard to figure out what's
going on with limited information. For your own safety, get
it checked out.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e$13704
@STARBAND.NET:


"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return air ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we believe you, uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Are you sure the duct is not make-up air for the furnace
and water heater?


Re-read...

Quote:
If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)


That seems quite odd. If the room is airtight, you should
still have it checked out by someone with knowledge of
proper ventilation. The problem you may have is explained
on the website. It might be solved by simply cutting a
small supply register into the duct coming off the air
handler. If I understood your original post, the furnace
is next to the water heater. It's puzzling why a duct would
be run to the attic for any other reason than make-up air.
If the duct is open to the attic, a powered attic vent could
cause the negative pressure. It's hard to figure out what's
going on with limited information. For your own safety, get
it checked out.


It's really not that hard to figure out...

The return ducting is run to the attic space, where it probably splits off
to many different locations.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement. There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Are you sure the duct is not make-up air for the furnace
and water heater?

Re-read...

Quote:
If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

That seems quite odd. If the room is airtight, you should
still have it checked out by someone with knowledge of
proper ventilation. The problem you may have is explained
on the website. It might be solved by simply cutting a
small supply register into the duct coming off the air
handler. If I understood your original post, the furnace
is next to the water heater. It's puzzling why a duct would
be run to the attic for any other reason than make-up air.
If the duct is open to the attic, a powered attic vent could
cause the negative pressure. It's hard to figure out what's
going on with limited information. For your own safety, get
it checked out.


It's really not that hard to figure out...

The return ducting is run to the attic space, where it probably splits off
to many different locations.


That's not what it sounds like to me. I wish Edwin would
post some pictures to an image sharing site. Pictures of
the air handler/furnace setup would be great. It could
also be a problem of terminology. There are a number of
sites that show illustrations of HVAC components and their
proper names.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

The HVAC is in the corner. At the bottom is an air filter which then
has duct work that runs towards the water heater. Then there is a
decent sized duct that runs up, through the first floor, and into the
attic. In the attic there are two round flexible tubes connected to
this. One runs to a air intake vent in the master bedroom and another
to the hallway on the other side of the house.

The openings in the duct work are in this structure. The water heater
sits right next to it.

A picture is here linked below. Bare in mind that this is over a year
old. The basement is finished now. You can sort of see one of the
openings in the duct work at the top -- it's a white grill. The other
is a few feet below that, more slim but longer.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg

On Aug 23, 10:16 am, wrote:
The HVAC is in the corner. At the bottom is an air filter which then
has duct work that runs towards the water heater. Then there is a
decent sized duct that runs up, through the first floor, and into the
attic. In the attic there are two round flexible tubes connected to
this. One runs to a air intake vent in the master bedroom and another
to the hallway on the other side of the house.

The openings in the duct work are in this structure. The water heater
sits right next to it.

A picture is here linked below. Bare in mind that this is over a year
old. The basement is finished now. You can sort of see one of the
openings in the duct work at the top -- it's a white grill. The other
is a few feet below that, more slim but longer.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Very clear that this is in fact vents in the main return duct at the
furnace. Were these there before the basement was finished? If so,
it's totally bizarre. You would be sucking huge amounts of basement
air, which you don't want to conditon, into the system. And with no
air vents into the basement on the supply side, it's a prescription
for all sort of problems. Drawing outside air into the basement,
drawing conditioned air from the house into the basement, creating
negative pressure affecting combustion, etc.

If it was done as part of finishing the basement, it would make a
little more sense, but still be wrong. I'm thinking they might have
added them as returns for the basement. But they then should be in
the finished space and never that close to the water heater/furnace.

My guess is this was some homeowner added crap, based on some very
incorrect ideas.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e$13704
@STARBAND.NET:


"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we believe you,
uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and move on. Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.


Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which contain lie
after lie.


Looks like you can't even handle the English language much less a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying to display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your capabilities...


No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to make up ****.

On 23 Aug, 11:59, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Clark" wrote in message

...





kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:

"Clark" wrote in message
.. .
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e$13704
@STARBAND.NET:

"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?

Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we believe you,
uh-
hunh...

Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and move on. Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.

Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which contain lie
after lie.



Looks like you can't even handle the English language much less a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying to display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your capabilities...

No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to make up ****.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey ladies, could you please take your bickering over to alt.cat.fight
and let the rest of us try to solve the OP problems? Thanks!

The basement was initially unfinished. There have always been supply
vents in the basement ceiling, however. There are/were 7 or 8 of them
down there. The venting was there from day 1. Nothing was changed
in the venting/duct work as a part of finishing the basement.

I'm getting the number of someone who does duct work and I'll have
them close those up and run a new air intake out in the hall way.

I would have never though that to be a problem until I read the
Popular Mechanics article stating this is a problem. I just wonder
how many other homes have this setup. This builder has many homes in
the county. I know where one is, I might have to stop by and ask to
check it out..

wrote:
The HVAC is in the corner. At the bottom is an air filter which then
has duct work that runs towards the water heater. Then there is a
decent sized duct that runs up, through the first floor, and into the
attic. In the attic there are two round flexible tubes connected to
this. One runs to a air intake vent in the master bedroom and another
to the hallway on the other side of the house.

The openings in the duct work are in this structure. The water heater
sits right next to it.

A picture is here linked below. Bare in mind that this is over a year
old. The basement is finished now. You can sort of see one of the
openings in the duct work at the top -- it's a white grill. The other
is a few feet below that, more slim but longer.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


A picture says a thousand words. Your picture helps clarify
the situation. My concern about make-up air can be answered
if what looks like a six inch round pipe between the return
air duct and the (furnace/air handler/evaporator coil) is
open at the bottom where it is behind the "L" shaped portion
of the return air duct. If the pipe is open and goes through
the roof and has a rain cap, you're in good shape as far as
preventing combustion byproducts being drawn into the house.
In your next post you mention that the basement is now
finished with this equipment now closed in. Your hiring of a
duct man to seal off the return air vent and run a new return
into the finished area is the proper course of action and you
should have no problems.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

A picture says a thousand words. Your picture helps clarify
the situation.

I have pictures of almost the entire home on flickr, mostly private
pictures, for situations like this. I went wild w/the digital camera.

My concern about make-up air can be answered
if what looks like a six inch round pipe between the return
air duct and the (furnace/air handler/evaporator coil) is
open at the bottom where it is behind the "L" shaped portion
of the return air duct.

Not sure what you mean by open. As I recall, it mates up to the duct
work there. I'll have to check when I get back to the house.

If the pipe is open and goes through
the roof and has a rain cap, you're in good shape as far as
preventing combustion byproducts being drawn into the house.

Yes, this goes to the roof and has a rain cap.
I'm assuming this opening allows combustion gases to vent out through
it? I really don't know this stuff at all.

In your next post you mention that the basement is now
finished with this equipment now closed in. Your hiring of a
duct man to seal off the return air vent and run a new return
into the finished area is the proper course of action and you
should have no problems.

He's coming out Sat., and will do the work the Sat. after.

Thanks all! I have a carbon monoxide detector upstairs, which has
never gone past 0. I have dogs in the house and would hate for
something to happen the times I am gone.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 23 Aug, 11:59, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Clark" wrote in message

...





kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:

"Clark" wrote in message
.. .
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e$13704
@STARBAND.NET:

"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The
HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility
room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold
air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the
gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so
they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this
right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air
returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are
these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these
vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?

Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we believe
you,
uh-
hunh...

Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and move on.
Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.

Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which contain lie
after lie.



Looks like you can't even handle the English language much less a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying to
display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your
capabilities...

No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to make up
****.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey ladies, could you please take your bickering over to alt.cat.fight
and let the rest of us try to solve the OP problems? Thanks!


I solved them with my first post. Yer Welcome!

wrote in message
oups.com...


I would have never though that to be a problem until I read the
Popular Mechanics article stating this is a problem. I just wonder
how many other homes have this setup.


Thousands... I see it all the time.

There are hacks everywhere! :-(

wrote in message
oups.com...


Thanks all! I have a carbon monoxide detector upstairs, which has
never gone past 0.


Another misconception of safety...

Check to see when your detector will signal a warning.

wrote:
A picture says a thousand words. Your picture helps clarify
the situation.

I have pictures of almost the entire home on flickr, mostly private
pictures, for situations like this. I went wild w/the digital camera.

My concern about make-up air can be answered
if what looks like a six inch round pipe between the return
air duct and the (furnace/air handler/evaporator coil) is
open at the bottom where it is behind the "L" shaped portion
of the return air duct.

Not sure what you mean by open. As I recall, it mates up to the duct
work there. I'll have to check when I get back to the house.

If the pipe is open and goes through
the roof and has a rain cap, you're in good shape as far as
preventing combustion byproducts being drawn into the house.

Yes, this goes to the roof and has a rain cap.
I'm assuming this opening allows combustion gases to vent out through
it? I really don't know this stuff at all.

In your next post you mention that the basement is now
finished with this equipment now closed in. Your hiring of a
duct man to seal off the return air vent and run a new return
into the finished area is the proper course of action and you
should have no problems.

He's coming out Sat., and will do the work the Sat. after.

Thanks all! I have a carbon monoxide detector upstairs, which has
never gone past 0. I have dogs in the house and would hate for
something to happen the times I am gone.


I have to complement you for being "AWARE" and curious.
So many people have been harmed because of ignorance of
their environment. Ignorance is not a dirty word, I'm
ignorant about a lot of things (like producing a Broadway
play, don't know a thing about it) but I can read and ask
questions. Ignorant means you don't know but you can learn,
stupid means no way. Keep on asking questions and learning
then one day you'll be the one people look to for answers.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:45da6$46cdaeec$9440c41e$9217
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e$13704
@STARBAND.NET:


"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999. The
HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility
room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold
air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside the
gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so
they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this
right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air
returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we believe you,
uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and move on.
Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.


Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which contain lie
after lie.

Point out one lie. There isn't a single one. You had to ask why a liquid
line won't sweat and you can't provide a clear technical explanation of
the
return duct function.


So, you want to bring in your lies from another thread, Eh?
I NEVER asked WHY a LL would sweat.
But, you made it very clear that you know nothing about mini-splits!

Nothing I have posted in this thread is inaccurate either, so why don't you
STFU.


Looks like you can't even handle the English language much less a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying to
display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your capabilities...


No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to make up
****.

It's real simple. Go to a dictionary. Look-up "effect" and "affect." Note
the difference. Nothing made up at all. Sorry that you can't admit your
errors and move on.


Just like your butt buddy with the "you" for "your"...
But, since that's all you got, run with it, right?

My statements are facts, I'm sorry that you're incompetent and can't keep up
in a technical discussion.

Thanks all. I wasn't sure if I was misunderstanding the terms or
not. If I was being paranoid or if it was a valid concern. For
$150US it just makes sense to play it safe and port it correctly.

To give the builder the benefit of the doubt, it's possible the HVAC
guy just didn't realize the basement was to be unfinished. His teams
work on many homes at the same time. Possibly he was waiting until
the basement work began before running the cold air returns? By
unfinished, I mean I didn't even have posts. It was steel beam
supported. Might explain why the vents weren't attached when I moved
in. I find it interesting that none of the inspections was there
anything said.

The air vent questioned above -- that actually doesn't attach to
anything. It goes to about 6" above the floor and is just open.

This is the CO detector I have;
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(nj...Source=froogle

It doesn't start reading anything until 30PPM. Why is this a false
sense of security? I realize it's only monitoring CO at the location
it's at, but at least I have something. I did this because the gas
fire place gives off a bad smell. When power is out, that's what we
use for heat. I was concerned about that. But this device has never
gone over 0.

Again, thanks!

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:45da6$46cdaeec$9440c41e$9217
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e$13704
@STARBAND.NET:


"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999.
The
HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This utility
room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the cold
air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right beside
the
gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these so
they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this
right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold air
returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are
these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these
vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we believe
you,
uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and move
on.
Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.


Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which contain
lie after lie.

Point out one lie. There isn't a single one. You had to ask why a
liquid line won't sweat and you can't provide a clear technical
explanation of
the
return duct function.


So, you want to bring in your lies from another thread, Eh?
I NEVER asked WHY a LL would sweat.
But, you made it very clear that you know nothing about mini-splits!

Nothing I have posted in this thread is inaccurate either, so why don't
you STFU.

Saying something "effects" the return duct is inaccurate and it
demonstrates your incompetence. Nothing you can say will change those
simple facts. Oh, also don't tell me what to do dumbass.


My post was dead on accurate.
Nothing you can do or say will change that fact!


Looks like you can't even handle the English language much less a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying to
display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your
capabilities...


No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to make up
****.

It's real simple. Go to a dictionary. Look-up "effect" and "affect."
Note the difference. Nothing made up at all. Sorry that you can't admit
your errors and move on.


Just like your butt buddy with the "you" for "your"...
But, since that's all you got, run with it, right?

No, that's not correct. You were attempting to communicate and failed
miserably. So sorry but that's just the way it is.


I know the way it is, you're a complete moron.
Try all you want, nothing will change this fact either.


My statements are facts, I'm sorry that you're incompetent and can't
keep up in a technical discussion.

Let's see here now. You don't know why a liquid line won't sweat and you
can't tell the difference between an "effect" and an "affect." Ok. Now you
want to say I'm incompetent. Wow. You have a serious reality disconnect
there bud. Get help now!


Ok Dip****, it was a technical discussion on mini-splits, that you know
nothing about.
But, a LL can indeed sweat, under the right conditions.

You can argue all you want, you don't know the facts and will never be
capable of understanding them.
So, please refrain from posting more of your lies on the subject.

wrote in message
ups.com...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.
#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.
#5 Install a media air filter.

#1 Fix the return issue.
Agreed.

#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.
I have no idea what that is.

#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
What electrical runs? The only electric in the picture is in the
light blue flexible conduit to the HVAC and the black cable on the
right that runs down the sump pump PVC to the sump pump itself. The
blue thing near the water heater *was* a loose water line to the water
purification system, which was put in place after the picture was
taken.

#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.
No. It's not physically attached and there is room for overflow if
the PVC gets blocked. It's tested weekly. The pressure valve goes
out and I end up with a flooded basement again. This directs it to
the sump pump. The PVC is rated to handle the temperatures involved.

#5 Install a media air filter.
Thank you for the suggestion.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:55549$46d06373$9440c41e$28949
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:45da6$46cdaeec$9440c41e$9217
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e
$13704
@STARBAND.NET:


"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in 1999.
The
HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This
utility
room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the
basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for the
cold
air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right
beside
the
gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up these
so
they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets sucked
in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying this
right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold
air
returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff. Are
these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have these
vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the return
air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we
believe
you,
uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and
move
on.
Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.


Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which
contain
lie after lie.

Point out one lie. There isn't a single one. You had to ask why a
liquid line won't sweat and you can't provide a clear technical
explanation of
the
return duct function.


So, you want to bring in your lies from another thread, Eh?
I NEVER asked WHY a LL would sweat.
But, you made it very clear that you know nothing about mini-splits!

Nothing I have posted in this thread is inaccurate either, so why
don't
you STFU.

Saying something "effects" the return duct is inaccurate and it
demonstrates your incompetence. Nothing you can say will change those
simple facts. Oh, also don't tell me what to do dumbass.


My post was dead on accurate.
Nothing you can do or say will change that fact!


Looks like you can't even handle the English language much less a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying to
display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your
capabilities...


No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to make
up
****.

It's real simple. Go to a dictionary. Look-up "effect" and "affect."
Note the difference. Nothing made up at all. Sorry that you can't
admit
your errors and move on.


Just like your butt buddy with the "you" for "your"...
But, since that's all you got, run with it, right?

No, that's not correct. You were attempting to communicate and failed
miserably. So sorry but that's just the way it is.


I know the way it is, you're a complete moron.
Try all you want, nothing will change this fact either.


My statements are facts, I'm sorry that you're incompetent and can't
keep up in a technical discussion.

Let's see here now. You don't know why a liquid line won't sweat and
you
can't tell the difference between an "effect" and an "affect." Ok. Now
you
want to say I'm incompetent. Wow. You have a serious reality disconnect
there bud. Get help now!


Ok Dip****, it was a technical discussion on mini-splits, that you know
nothing about.
But, a LL can indeed sweat, under the right conditions.

A liquid line will not sweat. If it is sweating then it isn't a liquid
line. Got it?


That's like saying if your water heater goes out, the hot supply line isn't
the hot supply line anymore.
You're so clueless that you could start school all over again.


You can argue all you want, you don't know the facts and will never be
capable of understanding them.
So, please refrain from posting more of your lies on the subject.

I haven't posted a single lie. Letseeherenow, you don't know why a liquid
line won't sweat and you refuse to acknowledge the difference between
"affect" and "effect." Just who is the story teller? Hmmmm?


I used an 'e' for an 'a'... however, that doesn't make my post inaccurate.
I'm sorry you're to incompetent to understand this.

BTW, you have posted lie after lie... it just keeps growing.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a$9440c41e$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
ups.com...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement depends on local code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation instructions or the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends more than 24" from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to be removed. Try
comprehending what you read next time.


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

wrote in message
oups.com...

#1 Fix the return issue.
Agreed.

#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.
I have no idea what that is.


It's a line that hangs down from a tee connection to catch debris. This way
it doesn't travel into the gas valve.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
What electrical runs? The only electric in the picture is in the
light blue flexible conduit to the HVAC and the black cable on the
right that runs down the sump pump PVC to the sump pump itself. The
blue thing near the water heater *was* a loose water line to the water
purification system, which was put in place after the picture was
taken.


Furnace electrical...


#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.
No. It's not physically attached and there is room for overflow if
the PVC gets blocked. It's tested weekly. The pressure valve goes
out and I end up with a flooded basement again. This directs it to
the sump pump. The PVC is rated to handle the temperatures involved.


If you check it weekly then it's ok...
However, I would like to know if the valve dripping.


#5 Install a media air filter.
Thank you for the suggestion.


No problem, maybe in the process 'Clark' can learn something too... :-)

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:daed2$46d44a5e$9440c41e$8106
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:55549$46d06373$9440c41e$28949
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:45da6$46cdaeec$9440c41e$9217
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
news:125e3$46ccf073$9440c41e$9970
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:bc2b7$46cc3989$9440c41e
$13704
@STARBAND.NET:


"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in
1999.
The
HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater. This
utility
room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the
basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for
the
cold
air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right
beside
the
gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up
these
so
they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets
sucked
in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm saying
this
right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want cold
air
returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this stuff.
Are
these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have
these
vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the
return
air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we
believe
you,
uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your ****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error and
move
on.
Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.


Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which
contain
lie after lie.

Point out one lie. There isn't a single one. You had to ask why a
liquid line won't sweat and you can't provide a clear technical
explanation of
the
return duct function.


So, you want to bring in your lies from another thread, Eh?
I NEVER asked WHY a LL would sweat.
But, you made it very clear that you know nothing about mini-
splits!

Nothing I have posted in this thread is inaccurate either, so why
don't
you STFU.

Saying something "effects" the return duct is inaccurate and it
demonstrates your incompetence. Nothing you can say will change
those
simple facts. Oh, also don't tell me what to do dumbass.


My post was dead on accurate.
Nothing you can do or say will change that fact!


Looks like you can't even handle the English language much
less
a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus trying
to
display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your
capabilities...


No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have to
make
up
****.

It's real simple. Go to a dictionary. Look-up "effect" and
"affect."
Note the difference. Nothing made up at all. Sorry that you can't
admit
your errors and move on.


Just like your butt buddy with the "you" for "your"...
But, since that's all you got, run with it, right?

No, that's not correct. You were attempting to communicate and
failed
miserably. So sorry but that's just the way it is.


I know the way it is, you're a complete moron.
Try all you want, nothing will change this fact either.


My statements are facts, I'm sorry that you're incompetent and
can't
keep up in a technical discussion.

Let's see here now. You don't know why a liquid line won't sweat and
you
can't tell the difference between an "effect" and an "affect." Ok.
Now
you
want to say I'm incompetent. Wow. You have a serious reality
disconnect
there bud. Get help now!


Ok Dip****, it was a technical discussion on mini-splits, that you
know
nothing about.
But, a LL can indeed sweat, under the right conditions.

A liquid line will not sweat. If it is sweating then it isn't a liquid
line. Got it?


That's like saying if your water heater goes out, the hot supply line
isn't
the hot supply line anymore.
You're so clueless that you could start school all over again.


So, you don't have it yet. A compressor discharge line will not sweat. A
liquid line will not sweat. If it's sweating then it is something else.
Don't try to understand it, just accept it.


Sorry, I don't accept fiction for facts.
Fact is, a LL can sweat under the right circumstances.

The other fact, is that you're so far out in left field you couldn't keep up
in the technical discussion.
Must suck to be so incompetent that you have to make **** up.


You can argue all you want, you don't know the facts and will never
be
capable of understanding them.
So, please refrain from posting more of your lies on the subject.

I haven't posted a single lie. Letseeherenow, you don't know why a
liquid
line won't sweat and you refuse to acknowledge the difference between
"affect" and "effect." Just who is the story teller? Hmmmm?


I used an 'e' for an 'a'... however, that doesn't make my post
inaccurate.

Actually it does. Now if "effect" meant the same as "affect" then your
post
might be accurate. Got it?

I'm sorry you're to incompetent to understand this.

BTW, you have posted lie after lie... it just keeps growing.

Sure thing liquid line boi. Just keep dancing to my tune.


Are you ready for your treat now?

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:cb090$46d44b3d$9440c41e$8222
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a$9440c41e$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
ups.com...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement depends on local
code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation instructions or
the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.

No, it's not bull****. You have a lot to learn. Drip legs are frequently
not required.


Have you ever read an instruction manual or the IMC?

They are required, Dip****.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends more than 24" from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to be removed. Try
comprehending what you read next time.

Ahem. Pretty sensitive there dancing monkey boi. Why even try to defend
yourself? That inferiority complex is really showing now.


Whats a matter, you can't handle the truth?


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

No you are not a pro by any measure. You're simply a hot bag of fetid gas.


Opinions vary, and your opinion doesn't mean jack ****.
I'll run circles around you any day of the week, asshole.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:daed2$46d44a5e$9440c41e$8106
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:55549$46d06373$9440c41e$28949
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"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
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"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
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"Clark" wrote in message
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kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
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"Moe Jones" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have a home with a basement. We had it built in
1999.
The
HVAC
(gas) sits right next to the gas water heater.
This
utility
room
is
around 20' x 8' with a tight door, located in the
basement.
There
are two cold air returns on the 1st floor.

The HVAC metal ducting that goes into the attic for
the
cold
air
returns has two large holes in it with vents, right
beside
the
gas
water heater. If I remove the grills and cover up
these
so
they
can't get air, the duct work at that location gets
sucked
in
slightly
due to the negative air pressure (I think I'm
saying
this
right.)

I read in a Popular Mechanics that you don't want
cold
air
returns
near the furnace. I know nothing about this
stuff.
Are
these
vents
cold air returns? Is this an issue? Should I have
these
vents
closed
off and another cold air return piped to the
hallway?

Thank you;

Edwin

Could the ducts be for combustion air?


Not when it effects the return air ducting.

The correct phrasing would be: Not when it affects the
return
air
ducting.

Of course now you'll claim that you knew that. Sure, we
believe
you,
uh-
hunh...


Oh my, the idiot police have arrived... an e for an a...

However, my statement *is* true, unlike a lot of your
****.

No your statement as written isn't true. Admit your error
and
move
on.
Or
try to lie your way out of it like always.


Then, by all means, prove that it's wrong.
BTW, my posts are always based on facts. Unlike yours, which
contain
lie after lie.

Point out one lie. There isn't a single one. You had to ask
why a liquid line won't sweat and you can't provide a clear
technical explanation of
the
return duct function.


So, you want to bring in your lies from another thread, Eh?
I NEVER asked WHY a LL would sweat.
But, you made it very clear that you know nothing about mini-
splits!

Nothing I have posted in this thread is inaccurate either, so
why
don't
you STFU.

Saying something "effects" the return duct is inaccurate and it
demonstrates your incompetence. Nothing you can say will change
those
simple facts. Oh, also don't tell me what to do dumbass.


My post was dead on accurate.
Nothing you can do or say will change that fact!


Looks like you can't even handle the English language much
less
a
technical
subject. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe you should just focus
trying
to
display
some competence? Of course that is probably beyond your
capabilities...


No problems here, sorry you can't handle the heat and have
to
make
up
****.

It's real simple. Go to a dictionary. Look-up "effect" and
"affect."
Note the difference. Nothing made up at all. Sorry that you
can't
admit
your errors and move on.


Just like your butt buddy with the "you" for "your"...
But, since that's all you got, run with it, right?

No, that's not correct. You were attempting to communicate and
failed
miserably. So sorry but that's just the way it is.


I know the way it is, you're a complete moron.
Try all you want, nothing will change this fact either.


My statements are facts, I'm sorry that you're incompetent and
can't
keep up in a technical discussion.

Let's see here now. You don't know why a liquid line won't sweat
and
you
can't tell the difference between an "effect" and an "affect."
Ok.
Now
you
want to say I'm incompetent. Wow. You have a serious reality
disconnect
there bud. Get help now!


Ok Dip****, it was a technical discussion on mini-splits, that you
know
nothing about.
But, a LL can indeed sweat, under the right conditions.

A liquid line will not sweat. If it is sweating then it isn't a
liquid line. Got it?


That's like saying if your water heater goes out, the hot supply line
isn't
the hot supply line anymore.
You're so clueless that you could start school all over again.


So, you don't have it yet. A compressor discharge line will not sweat.
A liquid line will not sweat. If it's sweating then it is something
else. Don't try to understand it, just accept it.


Sorry, I don't accept fiction for facts.
Fact is, a LL can sweat under the right circumstances.

Clinging hard to your fantasy? It's ok, just admit you've got it wrong and
let it go.


No fantasy, just facts that you can't understand is all.


The other fact, is that you're so far out in left field you couldn't
keep up in the technical discussion.
Must suck to be so incompetent that you have to make **** up.

You're the only one here making things up, dancing monkey boi.


Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's made up, Dip****.


You can argue all you want, you don't know the facts and will
never
be
capable of understanding them.
So, please refrain from posting more of your lies on the subject.

I haven't posted a single lie. Letseeherenow, you don't know why a
liquid
line won't sweat and you refuse to acknowledge the difference
between "affect" and "effect." Just who is the story teller? Hmmmm?


I used an 'e' for an 'a'... however, that doesn't make my post
inaccurate.

Actually it does. Now if "effect" meant the same as "affect" then your
post
might be accurate. Got it?

I'm sorry you're to incompetent to understand this.

BTW, you have posted lie after lie... it just keeps growing.

Sure thing liquid line boi. Just keep dancing to my tune.


Are you ready for your treat now?


No treat for you today.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:48f93$46d4d698$9440c41e$10901
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:cb090$46d44b3d$9440c41e$8222
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a$9440c41e$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
ups.com...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement depends on local
code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation instructions or
the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.

No, it's not bull****. You have a lot to learn. Drip legs are
frequently
not required.


Have you ever read an instruction manual or the IMC?

Unlike you, yes I have read instruction manuals (note the plural) and the
IMC. Driplegs are not always required. Maybe once upon a time you heard
they
were required but times and codes change. Got it?


I got the fact that you don't know the current codes.


They are required, Dip****.

Nope. You're wrong. Just admit it and get it over with.


I don't agree with horse**** lies.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends more than 24"
from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to be removed.
Try
comprehending what you read next time.

Ahem. Pretty sensitive there dancing monkey boi. Why even try to defend
yourself? That inferiority complex is really showing now.


Whats a matter, you can't handle the truth?


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

No you are not a pro by any measure. You're simply a hot bag of fetid
gas.


Opinions vary, and your opinion doesn't mean jack ****.
I'll run circles around you any day of the week, asshole.


Running around in circles is all you can do.


I'm not the one running, asshole.
Facts are facts and your **** is nothing but inaccurate bull****.
Always has been and always will be.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:83b8b$46d623cd$9440c41e$28822
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:48f93$46d4d698$9440c41e$10901
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:cb090$46d44b3d$9440c41e$8222
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a$9440c41e$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
ups.com...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement depends on
local
code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation instructions
or
the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.

No, it's not bull****. You have a lot to learn. Drip legs are
frequently
not required.


Have you ever read an instruction manual or the IMC?

Unlike you, yes I have read instruction manuals (note the plural) and
the
IMC. Driplegs are not always required. Maybe once upon a time you heard
they
were required but times and codes change. Got it?


I got the fact that you don't know the current codes.

Check again dancing monkey boi. Look for print on paper this time rather
than listening to your bar buddies.


You better take a look at 408, Moron.


They are required, Dip****.

Nope. You're wrong. Just admit it and get it over with.


I don't agree with horse**** lies.

And you don't agree with facts either. Where does that leave you? Here's a
hint: you're one lost soul.


No, your **** isn't consider facts, it's nothing but ridiculous lies.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends more than
24"
from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to be
removed.
Try
comprehending what you read next time.

Ahem. Pretty sensitive there dancing monkey boi. Why even try to
defend
yourself? That inferiority complex is really showing now.


Whats a matter, you can't handle the truth?


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

No you are not a pro by any measure. You're simply a hot bag of
fetid
gas.


Opinions vary, and your opinion doesn't mean jack ****.
I'll run circles around you any day of the week, asshole.


Running around in circles is all you can do.


I'm not the one running, asshole.
Facts are facts and your **** is nothing but inaccurate bull****.
Always has been and always will be.


Yep, you're runing to cover your sorry butt. You don't know HVAC and you
don't know code. Sorry boi but that's just how it is.


Look at 408, ****head.
When are you going to get some training so you don't keep looking like a
complete idiot?

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:17:26 -0500, kj wrote:

snip
Look at 408, ****head.
When are you going to get some training so you don't keep looking like a
complete idiot?

Here's a clue for you fool, you're the one looking like a complete idiot
here in ahr and few if any will argue this.


I can't help it if you don't like the facts, they are undisputable.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:5f0f$46d6d19f$9440c41e$24230
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:83b8b$46d623cd$9440c41e$28822
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:48f93$46d4d698$9440c41e$10901
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:cb090$46d44b3d$9440c41e$8222
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a$9440c41e
$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
ups.com...


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement depends on
local
code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation
instructions
or
the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.

No, it's not bull****. You have a lot to learn. Drip legs are
frequently
not required.


Have you ever read an instruction manual or the IMC?

Unlike you, yes I have read instruction manuals (note the plural)
and
the
IMC. Driplegs are not always required. Maybe once upon a time you
heard
they
were required but times and codes change. Got it?


I got the fact that you don't know the current codes.

Check again dancing monkey boi. Look for print on paper this time
rather
than listening to your bar buddies.


You better take a look at 408, Moron.


They are required, Dip****.

Nope. You're wrong. Just admit it and get it over with.


I don't agree with horse**** lies.

And you don't agree with facts either. Where does that leave you?
Here's
a
hint: you're one lost soul.


No, your **** isn't consider facts, it's nothing but ridiculous lies.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief
valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends more than
24"
from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to be
removed.
Try
comprehending what you read next time.

Ahem. Pretty sensitive there dancing monkey boi. Why even try to
defend
yourself? That inferiority complex is really showing now.


Whats a matter, you can't handle the truth?


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

No you are not a pro by any measure. You're simply a hot bag of
fetid
gas.


Opinions vary, and your opinion doesn't mean jack ****.
I'll run circles around you any day of the week, asshole.


Running around in circles is all you can do.


I'm not the one running, asshole.
Facts are facts and your **** is nothing but inaccurate bull****.
Always has been and always will be.


Yep, you're runing to cover your sorry butt. You don't know HVAC and
you
don't know code. Sorry boi but that's just how it is.


Look at 408, ****head.
When are you going to get some training so you don't keep looking like a
complete idiot?



Looks like you don't understand that there are local variations in code.
Maybe some day one of your buddy bois will clue you in 'bout that. Until
then please feel free to continue making a fool of yourself and just keep
dancing monkey boi.


That doesn't override the manufactures requirements, asshole!

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:14942$46d7d003$9440c41e$28434
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:5f0f$46d6d19f$9440c41e$24230
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:83b8b$46d623cd$9440c41e$28822
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:48f93$46d4d698$9440c41e$10901
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
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@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a$9440c41e
$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
news:1187878589.618959.236300
@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement depends
on
local
code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation
instructions
or
the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.

No, it's not bull****. You have a lot to learn. Drip legs are
frequently
not required.


Have you ever read an instruction manual or the IMC?

Unlike you, yes I have read instruction manuals (note the plural)
and
the
IMC. Driplegs are not always required. Maybe once upon a time you
heard
they
were required but times and codes change. Got it?


I got the fact that you don't know the current codes.

Check again dancing monkey boi. Look for print on paper this time
rather
than listening to your bar buddies.


You better take a look at 408, Moron.


They are required, Dip****.

Nope. You're wrong. Just admit it and get it over with.


I don't agree with horse**** lies.

And you don't agree with facts either. Where does that leave you?
Here's
a
hint: you're one lost soul.


No, your **** isn't consider facts, it's nothing but ridiculous lies.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief
valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends more
than
24"
from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to be
removed.
Try
comprehending what you read next time.

Ahem. Pretty sensitive there dancing monkey boi. Why even try
to
defend
yourself? That inferiority complex is really showing now.


Whats a matter, you can't handle the truth?


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

No you are not a pro by any measure. You're simply a hot bag
of
fetid
gas.


Opinions vary, and your opinion doesn't mean jack ****.
I'll run circles around you any day of the week, asshole.


Running around in circles is all you can do.


I'm not the one running, asshole.
Facts are facts and your **** is nothing but inaccurate bull****.
Always has been and always will be.


Yep, you're runing to cover your sorry butt. You don't know HVAC and
you
don't know code. Sorry boi but that's just how it is.


Look at 408, ****head.
When are you going to get some training so you don't keep looking
like
a
complete idiot?



Looks like you don't understand that there are local variations in
code.
Maybe some day one of your buddy bois will clue you in 'bout that.
Until
then please feel free to continue making a fool of yourself and just
keep
dancing monkey boi.


That doesn't override the manufactures requirements, asshole!

Looks like you don't know that not every manufacturer requires drip legs.
Maybe some day one of your buddy bois will clue you in 'bout that. Until
then please feel free to continue making a fool of yourself and just keep
dancing monkey boi.


It looks like you've missed the point that local codes can override
International codes and be more strict. But the fact is, the IMC and other
codes *still* apply.
Maybe a small child can explain this to you with detailed pictures, since
you're having trouble understanding adult reading.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:3644c$46d81b35$9440c41e$20053
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:14942$46d7d003$9440c41e$28434
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:5f0f$46d6d19f$9440c41e$24230
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:83b8b$46d623cd$9440c41e$28822
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:48f93$46d4d698$9440c41e
$10901
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
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@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:a6b52$46d1208a
$9440c41e
$16371
@STARBAND.NET:


wrote in message
news:1187878589.618959.236300
@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/15...832ab758_b.jpg


Just looked at your photo's.

#1 Fix the return issue.
#2 Both gas lines need a drip leg.

That is a false statement. A drip leg requirement
depends
on
local
code.


BULL****, read the ****ing manufacture's installation
instructions
or
the
IMC.

You're really showing your incompetence.

No, it's not bull****. You have a lot to learn. Drip legs
are
frequently
not required.


Have you ever read an instruction manual or the IMC?

Unlike you, yes I have read instruction manuals (note the
plural)
and
the
IMC. Driplegs are not always required. Maybe once upon a time
you
heard
they
were required but times and codes change. Got it?


I got the fact that you don't know the current codes.

Check again dancing monkey boi. Look for print on paper this time
rather
than listening to your bar buddies.


You better take a look at 408, Moron.


They are required, Dip****.

Nope. You're wrong. Just admit it and get it over with.


I don't agree with horse**** lies.

And you don't agree with facts either. Where does that leave you?
Here's
a
hint: you're one lost soul.


No, your **** isn't consider facts, it's nothing but ridiculous
lies.


#3 Electrical run needs to be secured.
#4 I would remove the PVC from the water heater relief
valve.

No need at to remove PVC at all since copper extends
more
than
24"
from
T&P.


I stated that I would remove it... not that it *had* to
be
removed.
Try
comprehending what you read next time.

Ahem. Pretty sensitive there dancing monkey boi. Why even
try
to
defend
yourself? That inferiority complex is really showing now.


Whats a matter, you can't handle the truth?


#5 Install a media air filter.

Some "pro"


Yes I am, unlike yourself.

No you are not a pro by any measure. You're simply a hot
bag
of
fetid
gas.


Opinions vary, and your opinion doesn't mean jack ****.
I'll run circles around you any day of the week, asshole.


Running around in circles is all you can do.


I'm not the one running, asshole.
Facts are facts and your **** is nothing but inaccurate
bull****.
Always has been and always will be.


Yep, you're runing to cover your sorry butt. You don't know HVAC
and
you
don't know code. Sorry boi but that's just how it is.


Look at 408, ****head.
When are you going to get some training so you don't keep looking
like
a
complete idiot?



Looks like you don't understand that there are local variations in
code.
Maybe some day one of your buddy bois will clue you in 'bout that.
Until
then please feel free to continue making a fool of yourself and just
keep
dancing monkey boi.


That doesn't override the manufactures requirements, asshole!

Looks like you don't know that not every manufacturer requires drip
legs.
Maybe some day one of your buddy bois will clue you in 'bout that.
Until
then please feel free to continue making a fool of yourself and just
keep
dancing monkey boi.


It looks like you've missed the point that local codes can override
International codes and be more strict. But the fact is, the IMC and
other
codes *still* apply.
Maybe a small child can explain this to you with detailed pictures,
since
you're having trouble understanding adult reading.




Local codes can completely replace the base code. They can be more
restrictive or less restrictive. You're dreaming if you think otherwise.
Codes are minimum standards and one can always complete the work as they
see fit as long as the local inspector is happy. Maybe some day one of
your
buddy bois will clue you in 'bout that. Until then please feel free to
continue making a fool of yourself and just keep dancing monkey boi.


I'm not the one dancing, Boy-retard.