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#1
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Strange electrical problem
I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a
loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? |
#2
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Strange electrical problem
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#3
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Strange electrical problem
Sounds like an open circuit, somewhere. You need to determine if the hot
wire is open, or the neutral, then open all the boxes involved and check for loose connections, preferably starting with the outlets, switches, etc, nearest the circuit breaker panel wrote in message oups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? |
#4
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Strange electrical problem
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#5
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Strange electrical problem
I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Do you have any outside outlets? They'll have GFCI breakers as well. |
#6
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Strange electrical problem
wrote in message oups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. [snip] Any thoughts? I had a somewhat similar occurence and finally had to call an electrician. He found a tripped GFCI in a hidden, out-of-the-way location, shutting off power to everything downstream (including the next outlet, which was also GFCI-equipped). Reset the GFCI and now everything works. He didn't even charge me for a service call. |
#7
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Strange electrical problem
In article , Terry wrote:
It sounds like your assumption that the outputs of the GFCIs have wire nuts is incorrect. The outputs of GFCI receptacles (any I have seen) are screws. Depends on the age of the GFCIs. Back in the early to mid 1980s, at least, some brands had wire leads instead of screw terminals. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#8
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Strange electrical problem
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#9
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Strange electrical problem
Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a
gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device wrote in message oups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? |
#10
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Strange electrical problem
In article , "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device Bear in mind that the OP mentioned wire nuts capping the load side of his other GFCIs, which means that he has pretty old equipment there. I think the OP said the home was built in 1986, and I imagine his GFCIs were installed at that time, and not replaced since. Having said that... are you sure that the older, first-generation GFCIs opened both the hot *and* the neutral when they tripped? I still have one of those old wire-lead GFCIs from the 1980s lying around somewhere. If I can find it again, maybe I'll take it apart and see.... -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#11
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Strange electrical problem
You might be right. Let us know what your test reveals
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote: Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device Bear in mind that the OP mentioned wire nuts capping the load side of his other GFCIs, which means that he has pretty old equipment there. I think the OP said the home was built in 1986, and I imagine his GFCIs were installed at that time, and not replaced since. Having said that... are you sure that the older, first-generation GFCIs opened both the hot *and* the neutral when they tripped? I still have one of those old wire-lead GFCIs from the 1980s lying around somewhere. If I can find it again, maybe I'll take it apart and see.... -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#12
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Strange electrical problem
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#13
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Strange electrical problem
On Wed, 23 May 2007 07:19:24 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote: Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. He should first measure the voltage between hot and ground or he may burn out his continuity tester, and may knock himself off the ladder when the thing gives a big spark. Unless he is positive he knows which wire is supposed to be the neutral, he should also have tested for voltage between the "neutral" and ground also before he used a continuity tester between the two. Same reason. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device wrote in message roups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? |
#14
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Strange electrical problem
There is no voltage. The circuit is dead
"mm" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 May 2007 07:19:24 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote: Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. He should first measure the voltage between hot and ground or he may burn out his continuity tester, and may knock himself off the ladder when the thing gives a big spark. Unless he is positive he knows which wire is supposed to be the neutral, he should also have tested for voltage between the "neutral" and ground also before he used a continuity tester between the two. Same reason. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device wrote in message groups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? |
#15
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Strange electrical problem
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:20:03 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote: There is no voltage. The circuit is dead For safety, turn off the breaker anyway. "mm" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 23 May 2007 07:19:24 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote: Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. He should first measure the voltage between hot and ground or he may burn out his continuity tester, and may knock himself off the ladder when the thing gives a big spark. Unless he is positive he knows which wire is supposed to be the neutral, he should also have tested for voltage between the "neutral" and ground also before he used a continuity tester between the two. Same reason. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device wrote in message egroups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "How could you ask me to believe in God when there's absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster |
#16
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Strange electrical problem
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:20:03 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote: There is no voltage. The circuit is dead The hot wire is dead or the neutral is open, but he hasn't checked that both of these things are true. "mm" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 23 May 2007 07:19:24 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote: Some folks have indicated that these things may be fed from the load of a gfcI device, that you haven't found, and this is possible, but easily determined. With a basic continuity tester, test between the neutral conductor and ground If you GET continuity, it's NOT fed from a tripped gfci. If you don't get continuity, check the same thing between the hot and ground. He should first measure the voltage between hot and ground or he may burn out his continuity tester, and may knock himself off the ladder when the thing gives a big spark. Unless he is positive he knows which wire is supposed to be the neutral, he should also have tested for voltage between the "neutral" and ground also before he used a continuity tester between the two. Same reason. If you don't get continuity between these either, it's almost certain, it IS fed from a gfci device wrote in message egroups.com... I have been trying to fix a strange electrical problem and am now at a loss where to look next. My house was built in 1986 and is a two story with basement. A couple of days ago I came home and found that my garage door would not work. I assumed that it was a stuck button but when I went in I found that the garage lights did not work either. Luckily, the garage outlets (other than the ceiling outlet for the door opener) are on a separate circuit so my freezer, etc. are still on. The first thing I did was go outside and flip all the breakers off and back on but none appeared to be tripped. Later I noticed that two of my bathrooms were also without power. I am not sure exactly which breaker is the correct one but there are no GFCI breakers. Instead, each bathroom has a GFCI outlet. I checked to make sure that the GFCI's had not tripped but none seemes to be. I then thought that maybe the contractor had wired the second bathroom and garage off of the GFCI output so I pulled out the outlets in both bathrooms. However, I found that the outlets themselves were the only things GFCI- protected; the outputs from these outlets just had wire nuts on them. I then decided to check and make sure the breakers were good. I used a voltmeter to test the output on each breaker and they all came out at 122 volts. At this point, I am at a loss as to where to look. This seems really strange. I haven't been working on any wiring projects and the house isn't that old and doesn't have any aluminum wiring. Any thoughts? |
#17
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Strange electrical problem
On May 23, 3:46 pm, Harry wrote:
On 23 May 2007 13:57:58 -0700, wrote: [snip] GFCI outlets as well as the garage lights. Is this a problem? Thanks. We're sorry, but the nine copies of your post are insufficient :-) Continue to post it at least 32 times, and then you may get a response. You apparently don't have a clue about software. Using the Google Groups web interface, I clicked on send and it came back saying the post was not successful due to a server problem and I should try later. I tried a few more times over a period of two hours with the same result. Today I came in and tried once more and was successful with a single click. I hope the multiple posts haven't caused you too much stress. I'd hate to think that you need counseling now. |
#18
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Strange electrical problem
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#19
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Strange electrical problem
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#20
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Strange electrical problem
On Fri, 25 May 2007 00:25:58 -0400, mm
wrote: On 24 May 2007 15:47:04 -0700, wrote: On May 23, 3:46 pm, Harry wrote: On 23 May 2007 13:57:58 -0700, wrote: [snip] GFCI outlets as well as the garage lights. Is this a problem? Thanks. We're sorry, but the nine copies of your post are insufficient :-) Continue to post it at least 32 times, and then you may get a response. You apparently don't have a clue about software. Using the Google He was kidding you. It was not hilarious, but it was funny. He even put in a smiley, which I don't even think was necessary. It was obviously a joke. Learn to take a joke. BTW, it is much easier to read Usenet directly. Besides the other one recommended, Agent can be used in free and paid mode. The current version of Forte Agent does not support free mode. I think the latest version that did was 3.3. 3.3 is still a good one. You may already have newsgroups on the ISP you use, or you can subscribe using any ISP for about 10 dollars a year iirc. Groups web interface, I clicked on send and it came back saying the post was not successful due to a server problem and I should try later. I tried a few more times over a period of two hours with the same result. Today I came in and tried once more and was successful with a single click. I hope the multiple posts haven't caused you too much stress. I'd hate to think that you need counseling now. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "How could you ask me to believe in God when there's absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster |
#21
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Strange electrical problem
On Fri, 25 May 2007 12:10:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote: BTW, it is much easier to read Usenet directly. Besides the other one recommended, Agent can be used in free and paid mode. The current version of Forte Agent does not support free mode. I think the latest version that did was 3.3. 3.3 is still a good one. No kidding! Thanks, that's good to know. |
#22
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Strange electrical problem
On May 24, 10:25 pm, mm wrote:
On 24 May 2007 15:47:04 -0700, wrote: On May 23, 3:46 pm, Harry wrote: On 23 May 2007 13:57:58 -0700, wrote: [snip] GFCI outlets as well as the garage lights. Is this a problem? Thanks. We're sorry, but the nine copies of your post are insufficient :-) Continue to post it at least 32 times, and then you may get a response. You apparently don't have a clue about software. Using the Google He was kidding you. It was not hilarious, but it was funny. He even put in a smiley, which I don't even think was necessary. It was obviously a joke. Learn to take a joke. I apologize. I didn't realize it was meant as a joke. It looked like plain sarcasm to me. I was already greatly irritated when got online and saw that the miserable Google Groups' "unsuccessful - try again later" messages were bogus and it had actually posted them all, but with a multi-hour delay. I see so much rudeness in usenet in general and so many flame wars that I assumed this was the same. Again, my apologies to the jokester and also to the group. |
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