Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

In article .com,
wrote:


First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
The value is whatever he will sell it to you for. Maybe start at some
percentage of assessed valuation of the land or something similar.

Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

County recorder is usually the one who does that, I think. Call them and
ask. I would probably also find an attorney just to keep things legal.
I would also find out who has zoning authority and ask them if
there might be any trouble for your neighbor. Sometimes zoning rules
require minimum lot sizes.

In article

,
Kurt Ullman wrote:
I would also find out who has zoning authority and ask them if
there might be any trouble for your neighbor. Sometimes zoning rules
require minimum lot sizes.

And even if the lot size will be fine, don't they often require a
minimum distance between the house and the lot boundary? Moving the
boundary 10 feet could put it to close to the house.


--
--Tim Smith

On May 14, 6:55 pm, wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

How close is his house to the property line? How close is yours?
Unless you are willing to offer a lot of money for that land there is
little chance he will sell it. He is selling his entire property and
that land is part of it.

It would have to be a nice bit of dough to convince him or his
realtors and attorneys that this is good for him. You count your
money. Then you get an attorney to help you decide what you can and
cannot do. Asking to buy ten feet, that makes you look a little
desperate so that always cost extra.

Even if the county will allow it, a new survey may be required. You
had better want that 100 sq/ft really bad to go to the trouble
necessary to buy it. But if you have the dough, it can probabley be
done but dont expect to be charged for 100 sq/ft, hehe. Expect to pay
through the nose unless your neighbor is your personal friend and
wants to do you a favor.

In article ,
Tim Smith wrote:

In article

,
Kurt Ullman wrote:
I would also find out who has zoning authority and ask them if
there might be any trouble for your neighbor. Sometimes zoning rules
require minimum lot sizes.

And even if the lot size will be fine, don't they often require a
minimum distance between the house and the lot boundary? Moving the
boundary 10 feet could put it to close to the house.

Good point. Might also run into easement problems putting a fence up
across the "new" area.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?


Some of these questions will be answered by a lawyer, which you WILL hire to
assist with this. It'll be a lawyer who knows the rules in YOUR town.

On May 14, 8:44 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

Some of these questions will be answered by a lawyer, which you WILL hire to
assist with this. It'll be a lawyer who knows the rules in YOUR town.

Before you spend a bunch of money, go talk to the town/city/county
planner and ask him.

In the end, if it's not easy to subdivide (and it might not be in a
subdivision), you might find it easier to pay your neighbor to give
you a fence easement or to just pay him for the right to construct the
fence without transfering real estate.

wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

Nobody reading this group other tha ou lives in our subdivision.

Probably nobody reading this grou lives in your city and county.

The odds are very high that no one here can give you any accurate advice.

Please contact a lawyer in your county who does real estate work and
find out if what yu want to do is
technically possible.

wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?


You live in a subdivision, and want to buy some of neighbors property?
Good luck with that, unless the neighboring property isn't in the
subdivision.

I have yet to see a subdivision which hasn't been set to minimum size
lots for the division.

I'll take the odds, your zoning won't go for it. And, they'll give you
this dumbfounded look, as if they can't believe someone would ask such
an question, and still be in charge of their own finances.

On May 14, 5:55 pm, wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

You could google "adverse possession" for your state and area. If the
lots are big like in my neighborhood (1 acre minimum) the cost of all
the legal mumbo jumbo can really turn into a hassle for that small of
a parcel. Adverse possession doesn't necessarily mean you hate your
neighbor. That's just a legal term. Each state has different laws.

Nobody reading this group other than you lives in your subdivision.

Probably nobody reading this group lives in your city and county.

The odds are very high that no one here can give you any accurate advice.

Please contact a lawyer in your county who does real estate work and
find out if what you want to do is technically possible.


(Too much Pepsi on keyboard over the last few months. Sticky keys.
And I'm alousy typist.)

jJim McLaughlin wrote:
wrote:

Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

Nobody reading this group other tha ou lives in our subdivision.

Probably nobody reading this grou lives in your city and county.

The odds are very high that no one here can give you any accurate advice.

Please contact a lawyer in your county who does real estate work and
find out if what yu want to do is
technically possible.

Buy his entire house. Put some renters in it and put your fence wherever
you want.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

The value is more like "what do you want to pay". I would begin by
discussing it with the neighbor. If he is interested, then you have a
reason to proceed. It would be helpful to know the size of the lots,
the distance between structures, and how far the new line would be from
the closest structure. If the neighbor is agreeable, you might be able
to get the deal okayed with zoning authority, but probably would require
advertising to other neighbors and some sort of hearing. It might be
easier, if at all feasible, to work out something with the buyer of that
property, as the present owner has no particular reason for going to
extra trouble if he is selling the property anyway.

The zoning board here grants exceptions all the time, but there are
limits, and most keep a certain distance between structure and property
line as an absolute minimum.

when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less
than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot

On May 15, 7:04 am, " wrote:
when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less
than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot

Not necessarily. We don't know how big the lots are that we're
talking about. It's possible the neighbors lot is way oversize to
beging with. But I agree, it doesn't sound likely, or else 10 feet
likely wouldn't be so critical on his lot.

To figure out if it theoretically can be done, check zoning for
minimum lot sizes, setbacks, etc. If any of that is a no go, then
that's likely the end of it. It would cost quite a bit to apply for a
variance and the likelihood you'd get it is slim to none.

As to what it's worth, ask yourself how much the loss of that piece
affects the sale price of his property. No one here can see it. If,
for example the adjoing property is 3 acres of woods, then it would
matter very little, assuming the resulting lot still meets all the
previous zoning specs. On the other hand, if he has a small backyard
and this makes it even smaller, then it would impact it a lot. Or if
it means there is no space for a future pool. You could get a real
estate agent to give you an estimate of the change in value. Also,
you are going to have to pay for all the legal costs on both sides,
surveys, any town fees, recording fees, etc.

And then we get to what is likely the real show stopper. Even if the
impact on his house price is small or non-existent, unless it's quite
a bit of money, why would the neighbor even consider it? And it
sounds like your timing could not be worse. If the guy is about to
sell the property, why would he want to get mixed up in this, which
could take months to get done. And meanwhile, he can't even show the
house, unless he wants to tell potential buyers "Oh, by the way, I'm
in the process of selling 10' of the backyard to my neighbor." And I
don't know exactly when that will be competed. Not something any
rational seller would want to do.

On May 15, 7:23 am, wrote:
On May 15, 7:04 am, " wrote:

when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less
than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot

Not necessarily. We don't know how big the lots are that we're
talking about. It's possible the neighbors lot is way oversize to
beging with. But I agree, it doesn't sound likely, or else 10 feet
likely wouldn't be so critical on his lot.

To figure out if it theoretically can be done, check zoning for
minimum lot sizes, setbacks, etc. If any of that is a no go, then
that's likely the end of it. It would cost quite a bit to apply for a
variance and the likelihood you'd get it is slim to none.

As to what it's worth, ask yourself how much the loss of that piece
affects the sale price of his property. No one here can see it. If,
for example the adjoing property is 3 acres of woods, then it would
matter very little, assuming the resulting lot still meets all the
previous zoning specs. On the other hand, if he has a small backyard
and this makes it even smaller, then it would impact it a lot. Or if
it means there is no space for a future pool. You could get a real
estate agent to give you an estimate of the change in value. Also,
you are going to have to pay for all the legal costs on both sides,
surveys, any town fees, recording fees, etc.

And then we get to what is likely the real show stopper. Even if the
impact on his house price is small or non-existent, unless it's quite
a bit of money, why would the neighbor even consider it? And it
sounds like your timing could not be worse. If the guy is about to
sell the property, why would he want to get mixed up in this, which
could take months to get done. And meanwhile, he can't even show the
house, unless he wants to tell potential buyers "Oh, by the way, I'm
in the process of selling 10' of the backyard to my neighbor." And I
don't know exactly when that will be competed. Not something any
rational seller would want to do.

Another thought on a show stopper. If the neighbor has a mortgage on
the property, he's going to have to get approval from the mortgage
holder, as well as any other lien holder to be able to sell the piece
to you. Don;t know what that may involve, but it doesn't sound
pretty.

You could avoid that by doing the sale of the strip to you at the same
closing as the sale of the house. However, I doubt any seller would
want anything to do with that approach.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?


This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an
attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a
lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning
department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to
map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your
application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the
necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title
company will record the documents.
HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your
neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical.

Ivan Vegvary

In article . com,
says...

On May 15, 7:04 am, " wrote:
when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less
than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot

Not necessarily. We don't know how big the lots are that we're
talking about. It's possible the neighbors lot is way oversize to
beging with. But I agree, it doesn't sound likely, or else 10 feet
likely wouldn't be so critical on his lot.

To figure out if it theoretically can be done, check zoning for
minimum lot sizes, setbacks, etc. If any of that is a no go, then
that's likely the end of it. It would cost quite a bit to apply for a
variance and the likelihood you'd get it is slim to none.

As to what it's worth, ask yourself how much the loss of that piece
affects the sale price of his property. No one here can see it. If,
for example the adjoing property is 3 acres of woods, then it would
matter very little, assuming the resulting lot still meets all the
previous zoning specs. On the other hand, if he has a small backyard
and this makes it even smaller, then it would impact it a lot. Or if
it means there is no space for a future pool. You could get a real
estate agent to give you an estimate of the change in value. Also,
you are going to have to pay for all the legal costs on both sides,
surveys, any town fees, recording fees, etc.

And then we get to what is likely the real show stopper. Even if the
impact on his house price is small or non-existent, unless it's quite
a bit of money, why would the neighbor even consider it? And it
sounds like your timing could not be worse. If the guy is about to
sell the property, why would he want to get mixed up in this, which
could take months to get done. And meanwhile, he can't even show the
house, unless he wants to tell potential buyers "Oh, by the way, I'm
in the process of selling 10' of the backyard to my neighbor." And I
don't know exactly when that will be competed. Not something any
rational seller would want to do.



You know what - I'd be VERY uneasy about this if I were the owner who was
selling, even if I had a bunch of land I barely knew what to do with. I'd stay
the heck away.

Because it may complicate my sale, and because I know I'm dealing with someone
who waited until the property was going to change hands to turn something to his
advantage. Instead of dealing with it straightforwardly sometime before. And,
sure as heck that would be the last kind of person I'd want my home sale to be
possibly complicated by.

I'd say "return thyself and thy concerns back to the woodwork, and deal with it
"man to man" (person to person, whatever) with my buyer later".

I know people take these moments to put up fences, etc. But actually going over
to buy land because they think the neighbor doesn't care anymore? Gah. An
entanglement I wouldn't want. I actually care MORE than I would otherwise - not
about the land per se, but how it may become a mess when I'm trying to sell.

So that's the other guy's point of view, likely. It'd have to be a VERY sweet
deal, closing completely (and titles updated, etc.) well in time before going to
market for me to even consider it.

Banty

On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an
attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a
lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning
department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to
map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your
application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the
necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title
company will record the documents.
HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your
neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical.

Ivan Vegvary

You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all
appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to
do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will
look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are
represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's
gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who
draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no
escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late.

I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable
with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound
like one of them for the poster.

I think it all depends on the location of the 10' you want to buy. If
the neighbor has several acres and you want to buy 100 sq. feet it
might be easy and doable. If he is on the typical minimum lot size
most builders use it may be difficult. If you just put up fence
without and he sells without notifying buyer , providing new survey
etc, the buyers are likely to realize your fence is on "their"
property and remove it promptly (I would). An inch or so no biggie
but 10' over I'd be angry. It cant hurt to ask local authorities and
an attorney but may not be worth it


On May 15, 8:04 am, " wrote:
when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less
than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot

wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't notice.

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.

Most buyers want/get a survey. They will find markers or have them
installed at survey. Upon noticing your fence is 10 ft inside their
property they are likely to remove it.You then wasted time and money.
Instead of insisting the poster become a squatter why not have him be
honest and do the right thing
On May 15, 8:19 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him

When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't notice.

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.

Lenders REQUIRE a survey. That's that.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Most buyers want/get a survey. They will find markers or have them
installed at survey. Upon noticing your fence is 10 ft inside their
property they are likely to remove it.You then wasted time and money.
Instead of insisting the poster become a squatter why not have him be
honest and do the right thing
On May 15, 8:19 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him

When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't
notice.

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
Lenders REQUIRE a survey. That's that.

Oh, BS, as usual. It is a case by case thing. In the case of a recorded
subdivision, they often accept the recorded plat as a valid description of
the property they have a security interest in. Been that way on deals I have
been involved with in several states.

Not that a survey is a bad thing, mind you, especially if you live in an
area that has dispensed with abstracts. One of these days, I'll bother to
get a survey on this place. In the meantime, having assisted in surveys as a
kid, my own quick'n' dirty measures off the easily found benchmark in the
back yard agreed with the deed, so I sleep easy.

aem sends...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
Lenders REQUIRE a survey. That's that.



Yes, in some cases a photo copy of the last one that is never checked for
accuracy. Eventually it would come back to bite you in the ass though, but
if there are no recorded changes you may slip it by.

"Norminn" wrote in message
The value is more like "what do you want to pay". I would begin by
discussing it with the neighbor. If he is interested, then you have a
reason to proceed. It would be helpful to know the size of the lots, the
distance between structures, and how far the new line would be from the
closest structure.

That can be very important depending on the lot sizes and zoning. In our
town, a shed must be built a minimum of 10 feet from the property line. If
the line moves, so does the potential shed location.

If 10 feet is that important to the OP, it probably will be to the new buyer
also. I doubt this deal will ever be done.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an
attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies)
have a
lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or
Zoning
department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to
map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your
application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw
the
necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title
company will record the documents.
HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your
neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical.

Ivan Vegvary

You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all
appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to
do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will
look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are
represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's
gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who
draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no
escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late.

I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable
with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound
like one of them for the poster.

Wrong! This is not a DIY project for either the seller or the buyer.
I have done over 300 Lot Line Adjustments for clients. (Licensed Land
Surveyor and Registered Civil Engineer)
The jurisdictions in which I have performed these adjustments all require
proper platting, measurements, descriptions, stake out on the ground, etc.
In other words there are enough protections. If something goes wrong the
client simply sues the Engineer/Surveyor just as he would sue his lawyer.
While I have not worked in every state of the union, I believe that the
majority of states use title companies to guarantee transfer and ownership
and not lawyers. I think Louisiana is an exception.
As an example, most agencies required a description and plat of each
property before the transfer, after the transfer and a separate description
of the transfer. That is 5 plats and legal descriptions total.
In California, if this client were to go to a lawyer, he would pay about $
150 for the advice of "go hire a Land Surveyor". Been there, done that.

Ivan Vegvary

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.

WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).
2) The adverse possessor also has to pay the taxes for the same duration
(seven years).
This provision is not impossible to meet if the properties were mis-measured
to begin with (e.g., very common. Somebody buys the west 50 feet of the
Jones property. Later somebody buys the east 50 feet of the Jones property.
One day they discover that there is only 98 feet total. They argue over the
2 feet. The tax assessor thought there were two 50 foot parcels and taxes
accordingly. Both parties are paying taxes on the same 2 feet).
3) After meeting the above, you still have to go to court through a "Quiet
Title" procedure. Expensive.

Of course if instead of "Adverse Possession", you simply meant
"Acquiescence" those standards are easier to meet.

Ivan Vegvary

In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.

WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).

That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in
law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm

2) The adverse possessor also has to pay the taxes for the same duration
(seven years).

Only true in some states.


--
--Tim Smith

On May 15, 10:58 pm, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an
attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies)
have a
lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or
Zoning
department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to
map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your
application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw
the
necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title
company will record the documents.
HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your
neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical.

Ivan Vegvary

You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all
appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to
do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will
look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are
represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's
gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who
draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no
escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late.

I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable
with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound
like one of them for the poster.

Wrong! This is not a DIY project for either the seller or the buyer.
I have done over 300 Lot Line Adjustments for clients. (Licensed Land
Surveyor and Registered Civil Engineer)
The jurisdictions in which I have performed these adjustments all require
proper platting, measurements, descriptions, stake out on the ground, etc.
In other words there are enough protections. If something goes wrong the
client simply sues the Engineer/Surveyor just as he would sue his lawyer.
While I have not worked in every state of the union, I believe that the
majority of states use title companies to guarantee transfer and ownership
and not lawyers. I think Louisiana is an exception.
As an example, most agencies required a description and plat of each
property before the transfer, after the transfer and a separate description
of the transfer. That is 5 plats and legal descriptions total.
In California, if this client were to go to a lawyer, he would pay about $
150 for the advice of "go hire a Land Surveyor". Been there, done that.

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You completely avoided the central issue. If someone doesn't have a
clue about how this transaction should take place, they are asking for
trouble if they don't have someone looking out for THEIR interests.
You seem to think proper plating, surveying, provide all the
protection he needs. I gave you a scenario where at the start of
this, the neighbor crafts a purchase contract all favorable to him.
Is the surveyor or title agency going to solve that?

Suppose the neighbor drafts a contract that says $10,000 is due him
right now upon signing the contract, before anything is done, let
alone title is transfered. Let's assume the buyer hasn't even heard
of the word escrow. Who's gonna look out for him on day 1? How
about if the seller goes bankrupt before the transfer is completed and
there was no escrow because he signed a contract all favorable to the
seller.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 15, 10:58 pm, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I
want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard.
All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision.
If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to
an
attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies)
have a
lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or
Zoning
department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor
to
map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your
application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will
draw
the
necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title
company will record the documents.
HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from
your
neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more
economical.

Ivan Vegvary

You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all
appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to
do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will
look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are
represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's
gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who
draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no
escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late.

I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable
with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound
like one of them for the poster.

Wrong! This is not a DIY project for either the seller or the buyer.
I have done over 300 Lot Line Adjustments for clients. (Licensed Land
Surveyor and Registered Civil Engineer)
The jurisdictions in which I have performed these adjustments all require
proper platting, measurements, descriptions, stake out on the ground,
etc.
In other words there are enough protections. If something goes wrong the
client simply sues the Engineer/Surveyor just as he would sue his lawyer.
While I have not worked in every state of the union, I believe that the
majority of states use title companies to guarantee transfer and
ownership
and not lawyers. I think Louisiana is an exception.
As an example, most agencies required a description and plat of each
property before the transfer, after the transfer and a separate
description
of the transfer. That is 5 plats and legal descriptions total.
In California, if this client were to go to a lawyer, he would pay about
$
150 for the advice of "go hire a Land Surveyor". Been there, done that.

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You completely avoided the central issue. If someone doesn't have a
clue about how this transaction should take place, they are asking for
trouble if they don't have someone looking out for THEIR interests.
You seem to think proper plating, surveying, provide all the
protection he needs. I gave you a scenario where at the start of
this, the neighbor crafts a purchase contract all favorable to him.
Is the surveyor or title agency going to solve that?

Suppose the neighbor drafts a contract that says $10,000 is due him
right now upon signing the contract, before anything is done, let
alone title is transfered. Let's assume the buyer hasn't even heard
of the word escrow. Who's gonna look out for him on day 1? How
about if the seller goes bankrupt before the transfer is completed and
there was no escrow because he signed a contract all favorable to the
seller.


To put that $10K in perspective, my lawyer (in upstate NY) charged a flat
$400 for my house purchase. It seems a pittance compared to $10K, in return
for knowing you've minimized or eliminated the possibility of nightmares
later.

In article , Edwin Pawlowski
says...


"Norminn" wrote in message
The value is more like "what do you want to pay". I would begin by
discussing it with the neighbor. If he is interested, then you have a
reason to proceed. It would be helpful to know the size of the lots, the
distance between structures, and how far the new line would be from the
closest structure.

That can be very important depending on the lot sizes and zoning. In our
town, a shed must be built a minimum of 10 feet from the property line. If
the line moves, so does the potential shed location.

If 10 feet is that important to the OP, it probably will be to the new buyer
also. I doubt this deal will ever be done.

Of course details are missing - but it can be important to the OP and not that
important to the neighbor.

However, his current neighbor has it against his interest as it may complicate
his sell. He should approch his new neighbor with the idea. After building,
and while maintaining, a good relationship with that neighbor.

Banty

In article , HeyBub says...

wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't notice.

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.



You should teach a course titled - -

****ting in your Nest 101: How to **** off the people you have to live with for
years

Banty

On May 16, 1:18 am, Tim Smith wrote:
In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in
and the land is yours.

WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).

That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in
law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm

2) The adverse possessor also has to pay the taxes for the same duration
(seven years).

Only true in some states.

--
--Tim Smith


LOL. Yes, I've never heard that there was any requirement for both
parties in an adverse possession to know about it and continously
disagree about it. AFAIK, the possessor has to make use of the
property as if it were his own, ie maintaining it, or occupying it,
and it has to be obvious to anyone that cared to look. But, I've
never heard of any reqt of direct contact. In fact, in the typical
adverse possession case, the parties are not in contact, because if
they were, there are simple legal steps the owner could take to
prevent the adverse possession. Therefore, the most common thing is
for the parties to not have contact.

Now this is a good example of why telling a newbie that he should go
about buying a piece of his neighbor's land without a lawyer is bad
advice. A lawyer knows the law, has experience doing these
transactions and is there to protect your interests and make sure you
don't get screwed.

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks
in
and the land is yours.

WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must
know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).

That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in
law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm

--Tim Smith

I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above
citations.
to wit:
"A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation
of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious,
exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute."

What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no
requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass?

Get your money back on your law classes!!

Ivan Vegvary

On May 16, 8:54 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
"Tim Smith" wrote in message

...





In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks
in
and the land is yours.

WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must
know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).

That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in
law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm
--Tim Smith

I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above
citations.
to wit:
"A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation
of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious,
exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute."

What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no
requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass?

Get your money back on your law classes!!

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It's not up to us to show you that the requirements of hostile, open,
and notorious extend to mean that there must be communication between
the parties. It's up to you to show that it does, because your are
the one making the claim. A credible link, other than your own
opinion, would be a good start.

You continue to make a good case as to how those that seek to do their
own lawyering can get into trouble. You are trying to interpret what
"open, hostile, and notorious" means, without knowing what these mean
in the legal context, or case law. In particular, you seem to think
hostile means that the parties must be fewding and in contact with one
another. In reality, it has a specific legal meaning, which is very
different from what you think it means:


http://www.expertlaw.com/library/rea...ossession.html
Hostile - Hostility exists where a person possesses the land of
another intending to hold to a particular recognizable boundary
regardless of the true boundary line. That is, possession is "hostile"
to the title owner's interest in the property. If possession was not
hostile, it may still be possible to advance a claim of ownership
under a theory of "acquiescence". You cannot claim "adverse
possession" if you are engaged in the permissive use of somebody
else's land.

Open & Notorious - You engage in acts of possession consistent with
the property at issue in a manner which was capable of being seen.
(This does not mean that you must have been observed in your acts of
ownership but, had the actual owner or members of the public been in a
position to see you, your acts must have been observeable). You need
not use the property in a manner that exceeds that which would be
expected of the actual owner - that is, it may be possible to claim
adverse possession of a vacation property on the basis of use only
during the vacation season, or to claim adverse possession of a vacant
parcel of land by engaging in typical acts of maintenance for the
parcel.


No where does this say or even come close to implying that there has
to be any contact between the parties at all. Hostile simply means
that your possession must be hostile to the owners interest. If you
have any credible links that say otherwise, please post. And if you
were familiar at all with adverse possession, you would know that in
many cases, there is never any contact at all between the parties.
Because if there is contact and the owner by title has just a glimmer
of intelligence, he will take the necessary steps to avoid the adverse
possession. Except, perhaps if he chooses to be his own lawyer and
blows it.

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...

In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks
in
and the land is yours.


WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must
know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).

That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in
law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm


--Tim Smith


I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above
citations.
to wit:
"A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation
of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious,
exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute."

What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no
requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass?

Get your money back on your law classes!!

Ivan Vegvary


What a maroon.

"Hostile, open and notorious" are defined in English common law cases
stretching back nearly a thousand years, and in searate lines of case law
in 49 US states after 1789.

Many states have decided to codify by egislation ow adverse possession
works.
Many more have not.

To think, as Ivan does, that a "Black's Law Dctionary" type definition
of"adverse possession" is all th OP needs is an amazing dislay of
ignorance and ignorance.

People relying upon olks like Ivan for legal advice have helped make
me a comfortable lving as a lawyer over the years.

Keep it up Ivan! You go, guy. And I hope lots of folks take
your expert legal advice posted in a Usenet forum.

Heh, heh, heh.

In article g2E2i.19900$5Z6.11506@trndny05,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above
citations.
to wit:
"A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation
of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious,
exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute."

What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no
requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass?

Get your money back on your law classes!!

Which part of that do you think imparts such a requirement?

"Hostile" means, depending on the state, one of:

(1) The trespasser be aware he is trespassing, or

(2) The trespasser occupy the land. It doesn't matter if he knows
that he is trespassing, or

(3) The trespasser must NOT know he is trespassing.

The second meaning is the one used in the majority of states. Not
nothing in any of these depends on the property owner being aware of the
trespass.

How about "open and notorious". That simply means that the trespass
must be readily apparent to anyone who cares to investigate. There is
no requirement that the owner ACTUALLY investigate and/or notice the
trespass.

So, putting this all together, we've got:

(1) The property owner does not have to know about the trespass. The
trespass merely must be done in a way that makes it so the owner could
easily know if he wished to check, and

(2) In most states, the trespasser does not have to know he is
trespassing. Only in the states that follow the first definition of
"hostile" must he know. That is 11 states.

In fact, in 3 states, the trespasser must NOT know he is trespassing.

And if you go check the case law, you'll find that all the cases support
this.

Apparently, judges don't have your incredible gift of being able to look
at a phrase that consists of technical legal terms like "hostile, open
and notorious" and then make a half-assed guess at what they mean based
on a vague approximation of their ordinary English meanings.

--
--Tim Smith

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 16, 8:54 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
"Tim Smith" wrote in message

...





In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession
kicks
in
and the land is yours.

WRONG!!
1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must
know
about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or
whatever the statute of limitations in that state).

That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in
law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm
--Tim Smith

I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above
citations.
to wit:
"A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his
occupation
of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious,
exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute."

What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is
no
requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass?

Get your money back on your law classes!!

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It's not up to us to show you that the requirements of hostile, open,
and notorious extend to mean that there must be communication between
the parties. It's up to you to show that it does, because your are
the one making the claim. A credible link, other than your own
opinion, would be a good start.

You continue to make a good case as to how those that seek to do their
own lawyering can get into trouble. You are trying to interpret what
"open, hostile, and notorious" means, without knowing what these mean
in the legal context, or case law. In particular, you seem to think
hostile means that the parties must be fewding and in contact with one
another. In reality, it has a specific legal meaning, which is very
different from what you think it means:


http://www.expertlaw.com/library/rea...ossession.html
Hostile - Hostility exists where a person possesses the land of
another intending to hold to a particular recognizable boundary
regardless of the true boundary line. That is, possession is "hostile"
to the title owner's interest in the property. If possession was not
hostile, it may still be possible to advance a claim of ownership
under a theory of "acquiescence". You cannot claim "adverse
possession" if you are engaged in the permissive use of somebody
else's land.

Open & Notorious - You engage in acts of possession consistent with
the property at issue in a manner which was capable of being seen.
(This does not mean that you must have been observed in your acts of
ownership but, had the actual owner or members of the public been in a
position to see you, your acts must have been observeable). You need
not use the property in a manner that exceeds that which would be
expected of the actual owner - that is, it may be possible to claim
adverse possession of a vacation property on the basis of use only
during the vacation season, or to claim adverse possession of a vacant
parcel of land by engaging in typical acts of maintenance for the
parcel.


No where does this say or even come close to implying that there has
to be any contact between the parties at all. Hostile simply means
that your possession must be hostile to the owners interest. If you
have any credible links that say otherwise, please post. And if you
were familiar at all with adverse possession, you would know that in
many cases, there is never any contact at all between the parties.
Because if there is contact and the owner by title has just a glimmer
of intelligence, he will take the necessary steps to avoid the adverse
possession. Except, perhaps if he chooses to be his own lawyer and
blows it.

I've given expert testimony in over a dozen cases regarding adverse
posession. Admitedly, California only. All of the cases, where defendant
was an absentee owner, and had no knowledge of the trespass, were dismissed.
One defendant moved to Hawaii for 12 years. He won his case. Granted,
these were not appealed to a higher court. Acquiescense or easement through
use probably would have been the winning argument.

I want to apologize. Let's back up to the very top of the discussion. I
meant to say that most agencies tightly regulate (Subdivision Acts, etc.)
boundary creations and transfers. The OP should go to his agency and follow
their approval procedures. Having done so, and having the boundary shift
approved, then, YES, YES, YES, take the transfer either to your attorney or
to your title company, whichever applies in your state.
Simply trying to grab the land is morally reprehensible. I think we all
agree on that.

Ivan Vegvary

On May 14, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him
if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All
total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If
he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I
have some questions.

First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some
thing like this?
Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level
(county)?

One of my neighbors wanted to buy a strip of land from me, it was
going to cost them more than it was worth. They finally resorted to
trying to take it by adverse possession but that failed (they started
to mow it and stuff and told the judge that "her grandmother" (who
they inherited the house from) had gardened on it for years. Too bad
the "for years" ended when she died in the 60s.

You could ask the owner if he'd be willing to sell a strip if land.
I'd consult a surveyor along with your city planning people then get a
lawyer. Then my neighbors did their research it was going to cost
about 1k for the survey and transfers/plot updates plus any other fees
the city or lawyer would levy.