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Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want
to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
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Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
In article
, Kurt Ullman wrote: I would also find out who has zoning authority and ask them if there might be any trouble for your neighbor. Sometimes zoning rules require minimum lot sizes. And even if the lot size will be fine, don't they often require a minimum distance between the house and the lot boundary? Moving the boundary 10 feet could put it to close to the house. -- --Tim Smith |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 14, 6:55 pm, wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? How close is his house to the property line? How close is yours? Unless you are willing to offer a lot of money for that land there is little chance he will sell it. He is selling his entire property and that land is part of it. It would have to be a nice bit of dough to convince him or his realtors and attorneys that this is good for him. You count your money. Then you get an attorney to help you decide what you can and cannot do. Asking to buy ten feet, that makes you look a little desperate so that always cost extra. Even if the county will allow it, a new survey may be required. You had better want that 100 sq/ft really bad to go to the trouble necessary to buy it. But if you have the dough, it can probabley be done but dont expect to be charged for 100 sq/ft, hehe. Expect to pay through the nose unless your neighbor is your personal friend and wants to do you a favor. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
In article ,
Tim Smith wrote: In article , Kurt Ullman wrote: I would also find out who has zoning authority and ask them if there might be any trouble for your neighbor. Sometimes zoning rules require minimum lot sizes. And even if the lot size will be fine, don't they often require a minimum distance between the house and the lot boundary? Moving the boundary 10 feet could put it to close to the house. Good point. Might also run into easement problems putting a fence up across the "new" area. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
wrote in message
oups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? Some of these questions will be answered by a lawyer, which you WILL hire to assist with this. It'll be a lawyer who knows the rules in YOUR town. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 14, 8:44 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? Some of these questions will be answered by a lawyer, which you WILL hire to assist with this. It'll be a lawyer who knows the rules in YOUR town. Before you spend a bunch of money, go talk to the town/city/county planner and ask him. In the end, if it's not easy to subdivide (and it might not be in a subdivision), you might find it easier to pay your neighbor to give you a fence easement or to just pay him for the right to construct the fence without transfering real estate. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
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Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
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Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 14, 5:55 pm, wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? You could google "adverse possession" for your state and area. If the lots are big like in my neighborhood (1 acre minimum) the cost of all the legal mumbo jumbo can really turn into a hassle for that small of a parcel. Adverse possession doesn't necessarily mean you hate your neighbor. That's just a legal term. Each state has different laws. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
Buy his entire house. Put some renters in it and put your fence wherever
you want. wrote in message oups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
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Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less
than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 15, 7:04 am, " wrote:
when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot Not necessarily. We don't know how big the lots are that we're talking about. It's possible the neighbors lot is way oversize to beging with. But I agree, it doesn't sound likely, or else 10 feet likely wouldn't be so critical on his lot. To figure out if it theoretically can be done, check zoning for minimum lot sizes, setbacks, etc. If any of that is a no go, then that's likely the end of it. It would cost quite a bit to apply for a variance and the likelihood you'd get it is slim to none. As to what it's worth, ask yourself how much the loss of that piece affects the sale price of his property. No one here can see it. If, for example the adjoing property is 3 acres of woods, then it would matter very little, assuming the resulting lot still meets all the previous zoning specs. On the other hand, if he has a small backyard and this makes it even smaller, then it would impact it a lot. Or if it means there is no space for a future pool. You could get a real estate agent to give you an estimate of the change in value. Also, you are going to have to pay for all the legal costs on both sides, surveys, any town fees, recording fees, etc. And then we get to what is likely the real show stopper. Even if the impact on his house price is small or non-existent, unless it's quite a bit of money, why would the neighbor even consider it? And it sounds like your timing could not be worse. If the guy is about to sell the property, why would he want to get mixed up in this, which could take months to get done. And meanwhile, he can't even show the house, unless he wants to tell potential buyers "Oh, by the way, I'm in the process of selling 10' of the backyard to my neighbor." And I don't know exactly when that will be competed. Not something any rational seller would want to do. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 15, 7:23 am, wrote:
On May 15, 7:04 am, " wrote: when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot Not necessarily. We don't know how big the lots are that we're talking about. It's possible the neighbors lot is way oversize to beging with. But I agree, it doesn't sound likely, or else 10 feet likely wouldn't be so critical on his lot. To figure out if it theoretically can be done, check zoning for minimum lot sizes, setbacks, etc. If any of that is a no go, then that's likely the end of it. It would cost quite a bit to apply for a variance and the likelihood you'd get it is slim to none. As to what it's worth, ask yourself how much the loss of that piece affects the sale price of his property. No one here can see it. If, for example the adjoing property is 3 acres of woods, then it would matter very little, assuming the resulting lot still meets all the previous zoning specs. On the other hand, if he has a small backyard and this makes it even smaller, then it would impact it a lot. Or if it means there is no space for a future pool. You could get a real estate agent to give you an estimate of the change in value. Also, you are going to have to pay for all the legal costs on both sides, surveys, any town fees, recording fees, etc. And then we get to what is likely the real show stopper. Even if the impact on his house price is small or non-existent, unless it's quite a bit of money, why would the neighbor even consider it? And it sounds like your timing could not be worse. If the guy is about to sell the property, why would he want to get mixed up in this, which could take months to get done. And meanwhile, he can't even show the house, unless he wants to tell potential buyers "Oh, by the way, I'm in the process of selling 10' of the backyard to my neighbor." And I don't know exactly when that will be competed. Not something any rational seller would want to do. Another thought on a show stopper. If the neighbor has a mortgage on the property, he's going to have to get approval from the mortgage holder, as well as any other lien holder to be able to sell the piece to you. Don;t know what that may involve, but it doesn't sound pretty. You could avoid that by doing the sale of the strip to you at the same closing as the sale of the house. However, I doubt any seller would want anything to do with that approach. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
wrote in message oups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title company will record the documents. HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical. Ivan Vegvary |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
|
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title company will record the documents. HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical. Ivan Vegvary You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late. I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound like one of them for the poster. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
I think it all depends on the location of the 10' you want to buy. If
the neighbor has several acres and you want to buy 100 sq. feet it might be easy and doable. If he is on the typical minimum lot size most builders use it may be difficult. If you just put up fence without and he sells without notifying buyer , providing new survey etc, the buyers are likely to realize your fence is on "their" property and remove it promptly (I would). An inch or so no biggie but 10' over I'd be angry. It cant hurt to ask local authorities and an attorney but may not be worth it On May 15, 8:04 am, " wrote: when the neighbor decides to sell it will make his home worth less than everyone elses. because of the undersized lot |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
|
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
Most buyers want/get a survey. They will find markers or have them
installed at survey. Upon noticing your fence is 10 ft inside their property they are likely to remove it.You then wasted time and money. Instead of insisting the poster become a squatter why not have him be honest and do the right thing On May 15, 8:19 pm, "HeyBub" wrote: wrote: Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't notice. After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
Lenders REQUIRE a survey. That's that.
wrote in message oups.com... Most buyers want/get a survey. They will find markers or have them installed at survey. Upon noticing your fence is 10 ft inside their property they are likely to remove it.You then wasted time and money. Instead of insisting the poster become a squatter why not have him be honest and do the right thing On May 15, 8:19 pm, "HeyBub" wrote: wrote: Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't notice. After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... Lenders REQUIRE a survey. That's that. Oh, BS, as usual. It is a case by case thing. In the case of a recorded subdivision, they often accept the recorded plat as a valid description of the property they have a security interest in. Been that way on deals I have been involved with in several states. Not that a survey is a bad thing, mind you, especially if you live in an area that has dispensed with abstracts. One of these days, I'll bother to get a survey on this place. In the meantime, having assisted in surveys as a kid, my own quick'n' dirty measures off the easily found benchmark in the back yard agreed with the deed, so I sleep easy. aem sends... |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... Lenders REQUIRE a survey. That's that. Yes, in some cases a photo copy of the last one that is never checked for accuracy. Eventually it would come back to bite you in the ass though, but if there are no recorded changes you may slip it by. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
"Norminn" wrote in message The value is more like "what do you want to pay". I would begin by discussing it with the neighbor. If he is interested, then you have a reason to proceed. It would be helpful to know the size of the lots, the distance between structures, and how far the new line would be from the closest structure. That can be very important depending on the lot sizes and zoning. In our town, a shed must be built a minimum of 10 feet from the property line. If the line moves, so does the potential shed location. If 10 feet is that important to the OP, it probably will be to the new buyer also. I doubt this deal will ever be done. -- Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/ |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
wrote in message oups.com... On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title company will record the documents. HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical. Ivan Vegvary You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late. I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound like one of them for the poster. Wrong! This is not a DIY project for either the seller or the buyer. I have done over 300 Lot Line Adjustments for clients. (Licensed Land Surveyor and Registered Civil Engineer) The jurisdictions in which I have performed these adjustments all require proper platting, measurements, descriptions, stake out on the ground, etc. In other words there are enough protections. If something goes wrong the client simply sues the Engineer/Surveyor just as he would sue his lawyer. While I have not worked in every state of the union, I believe that the majority of states use title companies to guarantee transfer and ownership and not lawyers. I think Louisiana is an exception. As an example, most agencies required a description and plat of each property before the transfer, after the transfer and a separate description of the transfer. That is 5 plats and legal descriptions total. In California, if this client were to go to a lawyer, he would pay about $ 150 for the advice of "go hire a Land Surveyor". Been there, done that. Ivan Vegvary |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
"HeyBub" wrote in message ... wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). 2) The adverse possessor also has to pay the taxes for the same duration (seven years). This provision is not impossible to meet if the properties were mis-measured to begin with (e.g., very common. Somebody buys the west 50 feet of the Jones property. Later somebody buys the east 50 feet of the Jones property. One day they discover that there is only 98 feet total. They argue over the 2 feet. The tax assessor thought there were two 50 foot parcels and taxes accordingly. Both parties are paying taxes on the same 2 feet). 3) After meeting the above, you still have to go to court through a "Quiet Title" procedure. Expensive. Of course if instead of "Adverse Possession", you simply meant "Acquiescence" those standards are easier to meet. Ivan Vegvary |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm 2) The adverse possessor also has to pay the taxes for the same duration (seven years). Only true in some states. -- --Tim Smith |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 15, 10:58 pm, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: wrote in message groups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title company will record the documents. HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical. Ivan Vegvary You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late. I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound like one of them for the poster. Wrong! This is not a DIY project for either the seller or the buyer. I have done over 300 Lot Line Adjustments for clients. (Licensed Land Surveyor and Registered Civil Engineer) The jurisdictions in which I have performed these adjustments all require proper platting, measurements, descriptions, stake out on the ground, etc. In other words there are enough protections. If something goes wrong the client simply sues the Engineer/Surveyor just as he would sue his lawyer. While I have not worked in every state of the union, I believe that the majority of states use title companies to guarantee transfer and ownership and not lawyers. I think Louisiana is an exception. As an example, most agencies required a description and plat of each property before the transfer, after the transfer and a separate description of the transfer. That is 5 plats and legal descriptions total. In California, if this client were to go to a lawyer, he would pay about $ 150 for the advice of "go hire a Land Surveyor". Been there, done that. Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You completely avoided the central issue. If someone doesn't have a clue about how this transaction should take place, they are asking for trouble if they don't have someone looking out for THEIR interests. You seem to think proper plating, surveying, provide all the protection he needs. I gave you a scenario where at the start of this, the neighbor crafts a purchase contract all favorable to him. Is the surveyor or title agency going to solve that? Suppose the neighbor drafts a contract that says $10,000 is due him right now upon signing the contract, before anything is done, let alone title is transfered. Let's assume the buyer hasn't even heard of the word escrow. Who's gonna look out for him on day 1? How about if the seller goes bankrupt before the transfer is completed and there was no escrow because he signed a contract all favorable to the seller. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
wrote in message
ups.com... On May 15, 10:58 pm, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... On May 15, 9:08 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: wrote in message groups.com... Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? This is done all of the time. Skip all of the advice about going to an attorney. Way too expensive. Most LGA's (Local Government Agencies) have a lot line adjustment procedure in place. Go to your LGA's Planning or Zoning department. The typical requirements would be that you get a surveyor to map the houses so setback requirements can be verified. You file your application, with the survey, and after approval your surveyor will draw the necessary plats, write a new legal description etc. Your local title company will record the documents. HOWEVER, as stated above, a revocable or irrevocable easement from your neighbor for specified uses would be a lot simpler and more economical. Ivan Vegvary You think an attorney is expensive? If someone who, by all appearances, hasn't the first clue on how to proceed on this tries to do this himself, the money he should have spent on an attorney will look cheap. Without someone to make sure his interests are represented, he could easily wind up screwed. For example, who's gonna draw up the contract? Suppose he leaves it to the neighbor who draws up some one sided piece of crap and takes his money, with no escrow, etc? Then he'll be running to the lawyer when it's too late. I'm always in favor of people doing whatever they feel comfortable with and have the necessary knowledge to do. But this doesn't sound like one of them for the poster. Wrong! This is not a DIY project for either the seller or the buyer. I have done over 300 Lot Line Adjustments for clients. (Licensed Land Surveyor and Registered Civil Engineer) The jurisdictions in which I have performed these adjustments all require proper platting, measurements, descriptions, stake out on the ground, etc. In other words there are enough protections. If something goes wrong the client simply sues the Engineer/Surveyor just as he would sue his lawyer. While I have not worked in every state of the union, I believe that the majority of states use title companies to guarantee transfer and ownership and not lawyers. I think Louisiana is an exception. As an example, most agencies required a description and plat of each property before the transfer, after the transfer and a separate description of the transfer. That is 5 plats and legal descriptions total. In California, if this client were to go to a lawyer, he would pay about $ 150 for the advice of "go hire a Land Surveyor". Been there, done that. Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You completely avoided the central issue. If someone doesn't have a clue about how this transaction should take place, they are asking for trouble if they don't have someone looking out for THEIR interests. You seem to think proper plating, surveying, provide all the protection he needs. I gave you a scenario where at the start of this, the neighbor crafts a purchase contract all favorable to him. Is the surveyor or title agency going to solve that? Suppose the neighbor drafts a contract that says $10,000 is due him right now upon signing the contract, before anything is done, let alone title is transfered. Let's assume the buyer hasn't even heard of the word escrow. Who's gonna look out for him on day 1? How about if the seller goes bankrupt before the transfer is completed and there was no escrow because he signed a contract all favorable to the seller. To put that $10K in perspective, my lawyer (in upstate NY) charged a flat $400 for my house purchase. It seems a pittance compared to $10K, in return for knowing you've minimized or eliminated the possibility of nightmares later. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
In article , Edwin Pawlowski
says... "Norminn" wrote in message The value is more like "what do you want to pay". I would begin by discussing it with the neighbor. If he is interested, then you have a reason to proceed. It would be helpful to know the size of the lots, the distance between structures, and how far the new line would be from the closest structure. That can be very important depending on the lot sizes and zoning. In our town, a shed must be built a minimum of 10 feet from the property line. If the line moves, so does the potential shed location. If 10 feet is that important to the OP, it probably will be to the new buyer also. I doubt this deal will ever be done. Of course details are missing - but it can be important to the OP and not that important to the neighbor. However, his current neighbor has it against his interest as it may complicate his sell. He should approch his new neighbor with the idea. After building, and while maintaining, a good relationship with that neighbor. Banty |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
In article , HeyBub says...
wrote: Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? When he moves out, build the fence. Chances are the new owners won't notice. After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. You should teach a course titled - - ****ting in your Nest 101: How to **** off the people you have to live with for years Banty |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 16, 1:18 am, Tim Smith wrote:
In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm 2) The adverse possessor also has to pay the taxes for the same duration (seven years). Only true in some states. -- --Tim Smith LOL. Yes, I've never heard that there was any requirement for both parties in an adverse possession to know about it and continously disagree about it. AFAIK, the possessor has to make use of the property as if it were his own, ie maintaining it, or occupying it, and it has to be obvious to anyone that cared to look. But, I've never heard of any reqt of direct contact. In fact, in the typical adverse possession case, the parties are not in contact, because if they were, there are simple legal steps the owner could take to prevent the adverse possession. Therefore, the most common thing is for the parties to not have contact. Now this is a good example of why telling a newbie that he should go about buying a piece of his neighbor's land without a lawyer is bad advice. A lawyer knows the law, has experience doing these transactions and is there to protect your interests and make sure you don't get screwed. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
"Tim Smith" wrote in message ... In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm --Tim Smith I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above citations. to wit: "A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious, exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute." What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass? Get your money back on your law classes!! Ivan Vegvary |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 16, 8:54 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
"Tim Smith" wrote in message ... In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm --Tim Smith I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above citations. to wit: "A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious, exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute." What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass? Get your money back on your law classes!! Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's not up to us to show you that the requirements of hostile, open, and notorious extend to mean that there must be communication between the parties. It's up to you to show that it does, because your are the one making the claim. A credible link, other than your own opinion, would be a good start. You continue to make a good case as to how those that seek to do their own lawyering can get into trouble. You are trying to interpret what "open, hostile, and notorious" means, without knowing what these mean in the legal context, or case law. In particular, you seem to think hostile means that the parties must be fewding and in contact with one another. In reality, it has a specific legal meaning, which is very different from what you think it means: http://www.expertlaw.com/library/rea...ossession.html Hostile - Hostility exists where a person possesses the land of another intending to hold to a particular recognizable boundary regardless of the true boundary line. That is, possession is "hostile" to the title owner's interest in the property. If possession was not hostile, it may still be possible to advance a claim of ownership under a theory of "acquiescence". You cannot claim "adverse possession" if you are engaged in the permissive use of somebody else's land. Open & Notorious - You engage in acts of possession consistent with the property at issue in a manner which was capable of being seen. (This does not mean that you must have been observed in your acts of ownership but, had the actual owner or members of the public been in a position to see you, your acts must have been observeable). You need not use the property in a manner that exceeds that which would be expected of the actual owner - that is, it may be possible to claim adverse possession of a vacation property on the basis of use only during the vacation season, or to claim adverse possession of a vacant parcel of land by engaging in typical acts of maintenance for the parcel. No where does this say or even come close to implying that there has to be any contact between the parties at all. Hostile simply means that your possession must be hostile to the owners interest. If you have any credible links that say otherwise, please post. And if you were familiar at all with adverse possession, you would know that in many cases, there is never any contact at all between the parties. Because if there is contact and the owner by title has just a glimmer of intelligence, he will take the necessary steps to avoid the adverse possession. Except, perhaps if he chooses to be his own lawyer and blows it. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"Tim Smith" wrote in message ... In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm --Tim Smith I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above citations. to wit: "A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious, exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute." What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass? Get your money back on your law classes!! Ivan Vegvary What a maroon. "Hostile, open and notorious" are defined in English common law cases stretching back nearly a thousand years, and in searate lines of case law in 49 US states after 1789. Many states have decided to codify by egislation ow adverse possession works. Many more have not. To think, as Ivan does, that a "Black's Law Dctionary" type definition of"adverse possession" is all th OP needs is an amazing dislay of ignorance and ignorance. People relying upon olks like Ivan for legal advice have helped make me a comfortable lving as a lawyer over the years. Keep it up Ivan! You go, guy. And I hope lots of folks take your expert legal advice posted in a Usenet forum. Heh, heh, heh. |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
In article g2E2i.19900$5Z6.11506@trndny05,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote: I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above citations. to wit: "A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious, exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute." What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass? Get your money back on your law classes!! Which part of that do you think imparts such a requirement? "Hostile" means, depending on the state, one of: (1) The trespasser be aware he is trespassing, or (2) The trespasser occupy the land. It doesn't matter if he knows that he is trespassing, or (3) The trespasser must NOT know he is trespassing. The second meaning is the one used in the majority of states. Not nothing in any of these depends on the property owner being aware of the trespass. How about "open and notorious". That simply means that the trespass must be readily apparent to anyone who cares to investigate. There is no requirement that the owner ACTUALLY investigate and/or notice the trespass. So, putting this all together, we've got: (1) The property owner does not have to know about the trespass. The trespass merely must be done in a way that makes it so the owner could easily know if he wished to check, and (2) In most states, the trespasser does not have to know he is trespassing. Only in the states that follow the first definition of "hostile" must he know. That is 11 states. In fact, in 3 states, the trespasser must NOT know he is trespassing. And if you go check the case law, you'll find that all the cases support this. Apparently, judges don't have your incredible gift of being able to look at a phrase that consists of technical legal terms like "hostile, open and notorious" and then make a half-assed guess at what they mean based on a vague approximation of their ordinary English meanings. -- --Tim Smith |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
wrote in message ups.com... On May 16, 8:54 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: "Tim Smith" wrote in message ... In article GNv2i.7111$vu2.5936@trndny01, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: After seven years (or some interval of time), adverse possession kicks in and the land is yours. WRONG!! 1) The possession has to be truly adverse. That is, both parties must know about it, disagree about it, and disagree over a seven year period (or whatever the statute of limitations in that state). That sure doesn't fit in with my recollection from property classes in law school, and a bit of Googling verifies that it is mostly wrong: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm --Tim Smith I guess you didn't want to read down to the first paragraph of your above citations. to wit: "A trespasser is entitled to legal ownership of property if his occupation of the property is hostile, actual, open and notorious, exclusive and continuous for a period of years set by state statute." What part of "hostile, open and notorious" make you think that there is no requirement that both parties must know and disagree about the trespass? Get your money back on your law classes!! Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's not up to us to show you that the requirements of hostile, open, and notorious extend to mean that there must be communication between the parties. It's up to you to show that it does, because your are the one making the claim. A credible link, other than your own opinion, would be a good start. You continue to make a good case as to how those that seek to do their own lawyering can get into trouble. You are trying to interpret what "open, hostile, and notorious" means, without knowing what these mean in the legal context, or case law. In particular, you seem to think hostile means that the parties must be fewding and in contact with one another. In reality, it has a specific legal meaning, which is very different from what you think it means: http://www.expertlaw.com/library/rea...ossession.html Hostile - Hostility exists where a person possesses the land of another intending to hold to a particular recognizable boundary regardless of the true boundary line. That is, possession is "hostile" to the title owner's interest in the property. If possession was not hostile, it may still be possible to advance a claim of ownership under a theory of "acquiescence". You cannot claim "adverse possession" if you are engaged in the permissive use of somebody else's land. Open & Notorious - You engage in acts of possession consistent with the property at issue in a manner which was capable of being seen. (This does not mean that you must have been observed in your acts of ownership but, had the actual owner or members of the public been in a position to see you, your acts must have been observeable). You need not use the property in a manner that exceeds that which would be expected of the actual owner - that is, it may be possible to claim adverse possession of a vacation property on the basis of use only during the vacation season, or to claim adverse possession of a vacant parcel of land by engaging in typical acts of maintenance for the parcel. No where does this say or even come close to implying that there has to be any contact between the parties at all. Hostile simply means that your possession must be hostile to the owners interest. If you have any credible links that say otherwise, please post. And if you were familiar at all with adverse possession, you would know that in many cases, there is never any contact at all between the parties. Because if there is contact and the owner by title has just a glimmer of intelligence, he will take the necessary steps to avoid the adverse possession. Except, perhaps if he chooses to be his own lawyer and blows it. I've given expert testimony in over a dozen cases regarding adverse posession. Admitedly, California only. All of the cases, where defendant was an absentee owner, and had no knowledge of the trespass, were dismissed. One defendant moved to Hawaii for 12 years. He won his case. Granted, these were not appealed to a higher court. Acquiescense or easement through use probably would have been the winning argument. I want to apologize. Let's back up to the very top of the discussion. I meant to say that most agencies tightly regulate (Subdivision Acts, etc.) boundary creations and transfers. The OP should go to his agency and follow their approval procedures. Having done so, and having the boundary shift approved, then, YES, YES, YES, take the transfer either to your attorney or to your title company, whichever applies in your state. Simply trying to grab the land is morally reprehensible. I think we all agree on that. Ivan Vegvary |
Want to buy 10' of neighbors yard and build a fence
On May 14, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Sorry if the subject line wasn't too detailed, but here's what I want to do. My neighbor will be selling his house soon. I want to ask him if I can purchase 10' from the current propery line onto his yard. All total it's about 100 square feet. We are in a typical subdivision. If he agrees to that, I will build a new fence on the new line. But I have some questions. First, how do I find out what the value of the land is worth some thing like this? Second, how do I get it recorded at the local government level (county)? One of my neighbors wanted to buy a strip of land from me, it was going to cost them more than it was worth. They finally resorted to trying to take it by adverse possession but that failed (they started to mow it and stuff and told the judge that "her grandmother" (who they inherited the house from) had gardened on it for years. Too bad the "for years" ended when she died in the 60s. You could ask the owner if he'd be willing to sell a strip if land. I'd consult a surveyor along with your city planning people then get a lawyer. Then my neighbors did their research it was going to cost about 1k for the survey and transfers/plot updates plus any other fees the city or lawyer would levy. |
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