http://www.ttigroup.com/business/bra...0bdf5aa3e07dae
76124a967

The design may be different, but they are manufactured by the same Chinese
factory.

Reluctantly, I'm taking Milwaukee off of my preferred list of tool makers.
(It's getting pretty short!)

Sparky

On May 9, 11:30 am, SparkyGuy wrote:
http://www.ttigroup.com/business/bra...7fbd3dd60bdf5a...
76124a967

The design may be different, but they are manufactured by the same Chinese
factory.

Not so...see

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/a...s?OpenDocument

Reluctantly, I'm taking Milwaukee off of my preferred list of tool makers.
(It's getting pretty short!)

Suit yourself, but it's a shortsighted and uninformed choice.

According to dpb :
On May 9, 11:30 am, SparkyGuy wrote:
http://www.ttigroup.com/business/bra...7fbd3dd60bdf5a...
76124a967

The design may be different, but they are manufactured by the same Chinese
factory.

Not so...see

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/a...s?OpenDocument

Er:

http://www.ttigroup.com/customPages/...7da7612 4a967

Quote:

Techtronic Industuries acquired the Milwaukee. brand and businesses in 2005

TTI (HQ'd in Hong Kong) _owns_ Milwaukee. And, AEG, Ryobi, Hoover and Dirt Devil.

Then from

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/a...s?OpenDocument

Quote:

Milwaukee's power tool and accessories are also manufactured to its exacting
standards in modern facilities in Europe and throughout the world.

I think "throughout the world" probably includes China.

As with most consumer products, there really are only a few companies making
them. There's often quite a difference between the brands. Other times,
none at all.

--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message


Er:

http://www.ttigroup.com/customPages/...7da7612 4a967

Quote:

Techtronic Industuries acquired the Milwaukee. brand and businesses in
2005

TTI (HQ'd in Hong Kong) _owns_ Milwaukee. And, AEG, Ryobi, Hoover and
Dirt Devil.

Then from

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/a...s?OpenDocument

Quote:

Milwaukee's power tool and accessories are also manufactured to its
exacting
standards in modern facilities in Europe and throughout the world.

I think "throughout the world" probably includes China.

And that may or may not matter. Just because it is made in China does not
mean it is low quality.

On May 9, 1:48 pm, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to dpb :

On May 9, 11:30 am, SparkyGuy wrote:
http://www.ttigroup.com/business/bra...7fbd3dd60bdf5a...
76124a967

The design may be different, but they are manufactured by the same Chinese
factory.

Not so...see

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/a...adquarters-and...

Er:

http://www.ttigroup.com/customPages/...SSID=f7fbd3dd6...

Quote:

Techtronic Industuries acquired the Milwaukee. brand and businesses in 2005

TTI (HQ'd in Hong Kong) _owns_ Milwaukee. And, AEG, Ryobi, Hoover and Dirt Devil.

Then from

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/a...adquarters-and...

Quote:

Milwaukee's power tool and accessories are also manufactured to its exacting
standards in modern facilities in Europe and throughout the world.

I think "throughout the world" probably includes China.
....

And from the link I previously posted -quote -

"Milwaukee is headquartered in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which is also
home to research, new product development, manufacturing support,
marketing, sales and information systems. It has modern production
facilities in Greenwood, Jackson and Kosciusko, Mississippi;
Blytheville, Arkansas and Matamoros, Mexico.

Milwaukee's power tool and accessories are also manufactured to its
exacting standards in modern facilities in Europe and throughout the
world. In 2001, the Milwaukee brand was launched in Australia by
Milwaukee's sister company AEG, located in Winnenden, Germany and was
re-launched in Europe and the rest of the world in 2002. ..."

I didn't say the were _only_ made in US, and, if you'll note the quote
you posted includes the key world "also". It's pretty clear the
products for SE Asia/Australia/etc. markets are produced outside the
US and the European are at least partially produced there.

If you'll also look at the TTI web page you'll find a message that
brand loyalty and identification is a key business strategy and that
they have a very deliberate idea of marketing to the full range of
customers and price ranges as an overall company and that all products
are not designed for all markets.

Search for a thread only a few weeks ago where I posted a significant
more detailed analysis in response to another poster's questions about
Milwaukee. There's quite an interesting story in there as I learned
while doing quite a bit of research a year or so ago in order to
evaluate the company as investment opportunity/merit...they're not the
ordinary stereotypical "Chinese startup" kind of outfit by any means
despite having some production in China and Ryobi being their initial
product...

On May 9, 4:15 pm, dpb wrote:
....
...they're not the
ordinary stereotypical "Chinese startup" kind of outfit by any means
despite having some production in China and Ryobi being their initial
product...

Sorry, didn't say that right -- they started supplying products
primarily to Sears, then started the Ryobi and generated the
sweetheart deal w/HD with it and parlayed that into what they
currently are rather than Ryobi first. But they knew specifically
what market they were after w/ Ryobi and it wasn't/isn't
Milwaukee's...

If I may sound off on this one,
Personally where the tool is manufactured weighs in little for me. As
much as I would prefer to buy American or Canadian, (keep our boys
working) QUALITY will be my sole decider. I know China has meant, and
in some cases still means cheap crap and deeper still human rights
issues, etc. But the world is headed in that direction. And better and
better stuff keeps coming from that manufacturing juggernaut know as
cheap labor China. Often they are our companies, exploiting the labor
cost difference. Anyway that said, I have been a BOSCH fan for years.
I've recently been displeased with a few of their newer tools, but the
Mitre Box for example, well... IMHO ,I dont think theres a better one
on earth at any price point. I love mine.

Jack wrote:
If I may sound off on this one,
Personally where the tool is manufactured weighs in little for me. As
much as I would prefer to buy American or Canadian, (keep our boys
working) QUALITY will be my sole decider....

Unfortunately for those w/ that as a primary criterion, a major
fraction of purchasers apparently have PRICE as the sole decider,
which allows the poor quality stuff to succeed in the market place.

My point to OP wasn't really about China per se, but a particular
company and a false assumption.

As a retired contractor, I have always sworn by Skil too. Got a
battery drill sometime ago at Lowes that is a beauty. It was on
special for about 40 bucks. Wish I had my 40 back. Used it 4
times, ie charged it 4 times and the charger won't work any more.
The store manager of that department said the charger would
probably be almost as much ad I paid for the whole thing and they
sold a bunch of them and he said everyone is just throwing them
away.

So much for Skil and so much for Lowes.


"Jack" wrote in message
oups.com...


If I may sound off on this one,
Personally where the tool is manufactured weighs in little for
me. As
much as I would prefer to buy American or Canadian, (keep our
boys
working) QUALITY will be my sole decider. I know China has
meant, and
in some cases still means cheap crap and deeper still human
rights
issues, etc. But the world is headed in that direction. And
better and
better stuff keeps coming from that manufacturing juggernaut
know as
cheap labor China. Often they are our companies, exploiting the
labor
cost difference. Anyway that said, I have been a BOSCH fan for
years.
I've recently been displeased with a few of their newer tools,
but the
Mitre Box for example, well... IMHO ,I dont think theres a
better one
on earth at any price point. I love mine.

Glenn wrote:
As a retired contractor, I have always sworn by Skil too.

Skil has been mostly junk for quite a while. You only noticed this lately?

They still make the worm-drive circular saw though, and it's still good.

Chris

Been retired for 18 years so haven't bought much lately.

I had 2 of the older battery drills and 4 batteries for them. My
people used them every day, all day. Usually had one or 2 bats
charging during the day, 1 hr charge. We used and Pounded them
for years and they never failed. Batteries took a memory finally
and I replaced the bats once. Shame a good Co goes to crap.


"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Glenn wrote:
As a retired contractor, I have always sworn by Skil too.

Skil has been mostly junk for quite a while. You only noticed
this lately?

They still make the worm-drive circular saw though, and it's
still good.

Chris

According to dpb :

I didn't say the were _only_ made in US, and, if you'll note the quote
you posted includes the key world "also". It's pretty clear the
products for SE Asia/Australia/etc. markets are produced outside the
US and the European are at least partially produced there.

You may be construing that I'm against tools made in China simply
because they're made in China. Not so. They may be, or they may not,
that really doesn't enter into my tool preferences.

It's by no means clear whether there is any regional affinity between
manufacturing location and market. It simply doesn't say.

The reality is that companies strive for the cheapest possible
manufacturing costs consistent with keeping/gaining market.
"Milwaulkee" is an important name, so for long term viability they
have to keep the quality that they're famous for. Which means
"higher end" design (eg: more rugged tools by design), and good QA.
They're going to pick the cheapest place to manufacture consistent
with the QA. If they can maintain the desired QA in China, they're
going to make it in China. Especially if they're Chinese. Anything
else makes no business sense.

Further, manufacturing devices like this draws on all sorts of parts.
Chances are that various parts are made by different companies
in different countries, and assembly might be somewhere else entirely.
Again, under the QA management they figure they want and can achieve.

I'd _prefer_ to buy locally manufactured stuff (which for me isn't
the US), but if it doesn't meet my price-quality requirements, I won't.

I have tools that were made in China. And tools made just down the
street by Lee Valley. I decide what I need/want vs price, and pick
the best match. Sometimes a cheap crappy tool fits my needs better
than a high priced high quality one.

If you'll also look at the TTI web page you'll find a message that
brand loyalty and identification is a key business strategy and that
they have a very deliberate idea of marketing to the full range of
customers and price ranges as an overall company and that all products
are not designed for all markets.

I saw all of that, but, remember, manufacturing _location_ has
relatively little bearing on any of it. China produces some very
high quality stuff, as well as crap. Every country is like that.

Search for a thread only a few weeks ago where I posted a significant
more detailed analysis in response to another poster's questions about
Milwaukee. There's quite an interesting story in there as I learned
while doing quite a bit of research a year or so ago in order to
evaluate the company as investment opportunity/merit...they're not the
ordinary stereotypical "Chinese startup" kind of outfit by any means
despite having some production in China and Ryobi being their initial
product...

Obviously. Neither is Rexon. Purchasing a company like Milwaulkee
is an expensive proposition simply because of its brand. It would
be stupid to buy Milwaulkee and then let its quality and reputation
go down the toilet.

The fact that Milwaulkee is/is not made in China really doesn't
matter to me. What matters is whether one of their tools is
consistent with my needs/expectations. Unfortunately for Milwaulkee,
I don't need any of those tools at the moment (and the B&D store
where I bought my rebuilt Dewalts cheap is just around the corner ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On May 10, 10:14 am, "Glenn" wrote:
As a retired contractor, I have always sworn by Skil too. Got a
battery drill sometime ago at Lowes that is a beauty. It was on
special for about 40 bucks. Wish I had my 40 back. Used it 4
times, ie charged it 4 times and the charger won't work any more.
The store manager of that department said the charger would
probably be almost as much ad I paid for the whole thing and they
sold a bunch of them and he said everyone is just throwing them
away.

So much for Skil and so much for Lowes.

"Jack" wrote in message

oups.com...





If I may sound off on this one,
Personally where the tool is manufactured weighs in little for
me. As
much as I would prefer to buy American or Canadian, (keep our
boys
working) QUALITY will be my sole decider. I know China has
meant, and
in some cases still means cheap crap and deeper still human
rights
issues, etc. But the world is headed in that direction. And
better and
better stuff keeps coming from that manufacturing juggernaut
know as
cheap labor China. Often they are our companies, exploiting the
labor
cost difference. Anyway that said, I have been a BOSCH fan for
years.
I've recently been displeased with a few of their newer tools,
but the
Mitre Box for example, well... IMHO ,I dont think theres a
better one
on earth at any price point. I love mine.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have been through several Skill, Craftsman, and Black Decker
cordless tools over the past few years and been rather disappointed in
all of them. Nine months ago I bought a combination set of tools from
Ryobi and couldn't be happier with their performance. The overall
qualitiy of the tools is good and their performance has been well
above that of the previous tools.

I bought them partly because of the price but more important to me was
the value. By that I mean that I compared both price and quality, not
one or the other. That is what you should be looking for when making
any purchase. There may be better tools on the market but if their
price is too high compared to their quality they don't represent a
good value. Likewise, cheaper tools may be of such low quality that
they are not a good value either.

When purchasing any tool or other product the ultimate value is based
on usage. I purchased a tile saw several months ago for $199 from
Harbor Freight. It was far from the best saw available and was also
not the cheapest saw available. I knew that I only had two or three
projects that I would be using it for over the next year or two. The
first thought was to buy one for $75-$100 or so but examination showed
that they would probably cost more in poor cuts and wasted tiles than
they would save. They were not good for more than a tile backdrop in
the kitchen.

I looked at top of the line saws and found them to be great quality
and would last through years of commercial use but their price to use
value for me wasn't there. So, I ended up buying an inexpensive saw
with more than enough value that was probably build in China but gave
me exactly what I needed, the best value for the dollar spent.

I once bought a little 1/4" no-name drill because I wanted the
RPM's of a little one. Got it at the lumber yard for something
like 10 bucks. We used that little thing for years and the drill
head bearing is so worn out that you can wiggle the chuck around
but it still runs well.


"BobR" wrote in message
I have been through several Skill, Craftsman, and Black Decker
cordless tools over the past few years and been rather
disappointed in
all of them. Nine months ago I bought a combination set of
tools from
Ryobi and couldn't be happier with their performance. The
overall
qualitiy of the tools is good and their performance has been
well
above that of the previous tools.

I bought them partly because of the price but more important to
me was
the value. By that I mean that I compared both price and
quality, not
one or the other. That is what you should be looking for when
making
any purchase. There may be better tools on the market but if
their
price is too high compared to their quality they don't represent
a
good value. Likewise, cheaper tools may be of such low quality
that
they are not a good value either.

When purchasing any tool or other product the ultimate value is
based
on usage. I purchased a tile saw several months ago for $199
from
Harbor Freight. It was far from the best saw available and was
also
not the cheapest saw available. I knew that I only had two or
three
projects that I would be using it for over the next year or two.
The
first thought was to buy one for $75-$100 or so but examination
showed
that they would probably cost more in poor cuts and wasted tiles
than
they would save. They were not good for more than a tile
backdrop in
the kitchen.

I looked at top of the line saws and found them to be great
quality
and would last through years of commercial use but their price
to use
value for me wasn't there. So, I ended up buying an inexpensive
saw
with more than enough value that was probably build in China but
gave
me exactly what I needed, the best value for the dollar spent.

On May 11, 8:34 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to dpb :

I didn't say the were _only_ made in US, and, if you'll note the quote
you posted includes the key world "also". It's pretty clear the
products for SE Asia/Australia/etc. markets are produced outside the
US and the European are at least partially produced there.

You may be construing that I'm against tools made in China simply
because they're made in China. Not so. They may be, or they may not,
that really doesn't enter into my tool preferences.

It's by no means clear whether there is any regional affinity between
manufacturing location and market. It simply doesn't say.

No, I was just responding to what seemed like a claim that what I had
posted was in error and an inferred attempt to indicate that there was
no US manufacturing...if that wasn't the intent/purpose, ok.

It seems fair to me to assume that since Milwaukee built a large
fraction of their tools for the US market in the US before the buyout
and those facilities are still in operation that they're still
producing for the US market in the US. While undoubtedly they're
bringing in parts from all over for assembly, doesn't seem at logical
to ship from overseas to the US and then back to, say, Australia when
could build for that market much closer...

On May 11, 9:38 am, BobR wrote:
....

I have been through several Skill, Craftsman, and Black Decker
cordless tools over the past few years and been rather disappointed in
all of them. Nine months ago I bought a combination set of tools from
Ryobi and couldn't be happier with their performance. The overall
qualitiy of the tools is good and their performance has been well
above that of the previous tools.
...

Well, w/ those as comparatives, you're in at least the same general
range of target market. TTI of course, began as a manufacturer for
Sears/Craftsman and then built the Ryobi brand and got the
distribution deal w/ HD from that experience/basis. While I haven't
looked in detail for several years now, it would be surprising to find
they're not still making a fair amount of stuff for Sears. I've not
investigated the Skil/B&D actual manufacturing relationships enough to
know of any possible connection in production facilities although one
would presume they're not contracting for them, even that wouldn't be
out of the realm of possibilities.

On May 11, 11:16 am, dpb wrote:
On May 11, 9:38 am, BobR wrote:
...

I have been through several Skill, Craftsman, and Black Decker
cordless tools over the past few years and been rather disappointed in
all of them. Nine months ago I bought a combination set of tools from
Ryobi and couldn't be happier with their performance. The overall
qualitiy of the tools is good and their performance has been well
above that of the previous tools.

..

Well, w/ those as comparatives, you're in at least the same general
range of target market. TTI of course, began as a manufacturer for
Sears/Craftsman and then built the Ryobi brand and got the
distribution deal w/ HD from that experience/basis. While I haven't
looked in detail for several years now, it would be surprising to find
they're not still making a fair amount of stuff for Sears. I've not
investigated the Skil/B&D actual manufacturing relationships enough to
know of any possible connection in production facilities although one
would presume they're not contracting for them, even that wouldn't be
out of the realm of possibilities.

I was talking with a plumbing company the other day who was also using
Ryobi tools. Caught me by surprise that they would be using them
since their load demand would far exceed mine. I ask them if they
were happy with the tools and the quality. Their answer was that
while the tools were not as good as say the Dewalt brand, their cost
was so much lower that they could by three or four and still save
money. Their experience had shown about 3/4 of the use at 1/4 of the
cost. Still seems like a good value.

According to dpb :

It seems fair to me to assume that since Milwaukee built a large
fraction of their tools for the US market in the US before the buyout
and those facilities are still in operation that they're still
producing for the US market in the US.

It may seem fair to assume, but the huge difference in labor costs
often completely swamp transportation and/or retooling costs.
If they can ship gluten that far, portable power tools is a no-brainer.

You have heard of outsourcing haven't you? :-(

Delta's bandsaws, for example, have been made in many different
places over the years. At times by companies who produce
clones to be sold as different brands on exactly the same lines.

While undoubtedly they're
bringing in parts from all over for assembly, doesn't seem at logical
to ship from overseas to the US and then back to, say, Australia when
could build for that market much closer...

The world tool market is a confusing place. Take a look at
a Woodworking magazine tool review sometime and notice how
many of the planers look identical except for minor differences
in the plastic shells.

Hint: they were all made in the same place.

Good chance that TTI is selling "milwaulkee" in the far eastern
market, except that the shell is a different color and the brand
name is completely unpronounceable.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On 2007-05-11, Chris Lewis wrote:
It seems fair to me to assume that since Milwaukee built a large
fraction of their tools for the US market in the US before the buyout
and those facilities are still in operation that they're still
producing for the US market in the US.

It may seem fair to assume, but the huge difference in labor costs
often completely swamp transportation and/or retooling costs.
If they can ship gluten that far, portable power tools is a no-brainer.

On the other hand, if a manufacturer has an efficient manufacturing
process, the difference in labor costs become much less significant.
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US. The cost of shipping a completed computer from Asia is more
than the difference in labor costs between well paid US workers with
full benefits, and prison labor in some 3rd world country.

It just doesn't matter if labor costs here are 10x labor costs there,
when you only have a few minutes labor going into the product.

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.

Not any more.

--
Matt Barrow
Performace Homes, LLC.
Colorado Springs, CO

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
You have heard of outsourcing haven't you? :-(

Delta's bandsaws, for example, have been made in many different
places over the years. At times by companies who produce
clones to be sold as different brands on exactly the same lines.

That's nothing new, the same product with different names, Had an
employee who worked in a battery factory before the war (WWII)
whose line put 5 different labels on the same battery coming down
the line. So we are looking at vintage '35 to '40.

On 2007-05-11, Matt Barrow wrote:
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.

Not any more.

You're thinking of Dell's support. They've moved that overseas. They
still build the computers in or near the country they sell them. Note
that support is almost all labor.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to dpb :

It seems fair to me to assume that since Milwaukee built a large
fraction of their tools for the US market in the US before the buyout
and those facilities are still in operation that they're still
producing for the US market in the US.

It may seem fair to assume, but the huge difference in labor costs
often completely swamp transportation and/or retooling costs.
....

Well, I just looked at the Milwaukee 18V hammer-drill I bought quite
some time ago -- well before the TTI buyout. Care to guess where it
says it was manufactured? (Hint--surprised me no end).

I have another bought just last year, but for the moment it's
unaccessible so can't go look until the truck it's in gets back for a
comparison examination...

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to dpb :

It seems fair to me to assume that since Milwaukee built a large
fraction of their tools for the US market in the US before the buyout
and those facilities are still in operation that they're still
producing for the US market in the US.

It may seem fair to assume, but the huge difference in labor costs
often completely swamp transportation and/or retooling costs.

....

Well, it's clear that what they're assembling and/or manufacturing in
the US can't be cheaper to ship halfway 'round the world than
locally. Now whether they can make the same product(s) cheaper enough
somewhere else in the world and still ship them in is, of course,
another analysis entirely. _ALL_ I'm saying is there are still
Milwaukee manufacturing facilities in the US in contrast to OP's
apparent contention/belief that the TTI takeover meant cheap stuff of
the same production line w/ Ryobi.

That production is worldwide now and has been for some time is not in
contention, at least by me. I know full well that York/Delta/several
other in the woodworking tools are the _same_ tool simply branded w/
_perhaps_ some slightly differing features/amenities and if your're
really lucky, a little better qc on a Delta as opposed to York.
Doesn't have any real bearing on the original post (at least as I read
it) and the response I've made...

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-11, Matt Barrow wrote:
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.

Not any more.

You're thinking of Dell's support. They've moved that overseas. They
still build the computers in or near the country they sell them. Note
that support is almost all labor.

My Dell, bought in February, says "Made in China".

Tim Smith wrote:
On 2007-05-11, Chris Lewis wrote:
It seems fair to me to assume that since Milwaukee built a large
fraction of their tools for the US market in the US before the buyout
and those facilities are still in operation that they're still
producing for the US market in the US.
It may seem fair to assume, but the huge difference in labor costs
often completely swamp transportation and/or retooling costs.
If they can ship gluten that far, portable power tools is a no-brainer.

On the other hand, if a manufacturer has an efficient manufacturing
process, the difference in labor costs become much less significant.
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.


Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.


The cost of shipping a completed computer from Asia is more
than the difference in labor costs between well paid US workers with
full benefits, and prison labor in some 3rd world country.

It just doesn't matter if labor costs here are 10x labor costs there,
when you only have a few minutes labor going into the product.

Tim Smith wrote:
On 2007-05-11, Matt Barrow wrote:
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.
Not any more.

You're thinking of Dell's support. They've moved that overseas. They
still build the computers in or near the country they sell them. Note
that support is almost all labor.

Dell computers are made offshore (including the ones customized just for
you). They bring them in large cargo containers and then the cargo
company opens the container and ships the individual units that are
already boxed for shipment.

In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
You're thinking of Dell's support. They've moved that overseas. They
still build the computers in or near the country they sell them. Note
that support is almost all labor.

My Dell, bought in February, says "Made in China".

Is it a laptop? Laptops for Dell (and most of the other major vendors)
are made by a handful of Asian companies, and then branded as Dell, HP,
etc.

--
--Tim Smith

On May 11, 5:30 pm, George wrote:
Tim Smith wrote:
On 2007-05-11, Matt Barrow wrote:
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.
Not any more.

You're thinking of Dell's support. They've moved that overseas. They
still build the computers in or near the country they sell them. Note
that support is almost all labor.

Dell computers are made offshore (including the ones customized just for
you). They bring them in large cargo containers and then the cargo
company opens the container and ships the individual units that are
already boxed for shipment.

That's not possible in the time frame of placing an order and getting
delivery in only a few days. AFAIK, they still are assembling
components in the US although I'm not sure whether it's in Austin and
longer. Seems like I heard the built a new facility not too long
(Nashville, maybe???) but don't know if it replaced or augmented
existing facility/(ies)...

For the other note, there is no "Made In" sticker on my (relatively
new) tower other than the individual components inside, but nothing
applicable to the box itself as a whole...

In article ,
George wrote:
Dell computers are made offshore (including the ones customized just for
you). They bring them in large cargo containers and then the cargo
company opens the container and ships the individual units that are
already boxed for shipment.

Nope. There was a long article about this a couple years or so ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/bu...l.html?ex=1179
028800&en=9664407af95bef68&ei=5070

Dell does have a factory in China. It makes the computers they sell in
Asia. Their factory in Ireland makes computers they sell in Europe.
And their three US factories make their computers for the US.


--
--Tim Smith

In article ,
George wrote:

Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.

Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)

--
--Tim Smith

On May 11, 6:46 pm, Tim Smith wrote:
In article ,

George wrote:

Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.

Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)

Only those moderately geographically literate in North America, I
guess...

---

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
George wrote:

Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.

Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)

How about answering why my three month old Dell says "Made in China" on the
box as well as on the case.

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
George wrote:

Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.

Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)

How about answering why my three month old Dell says "Made in China" on
the box as well as on the case.

The laptops have been made offshore for ages. Last I looked, their
commercial grade desktops were still assembled in US (Using a lot of
pacific rim components, of course.) Monitors are OEM'd by other vendors,
presumably overseas, as are keyboards and mice and such. No idea where their
consumer-grade machines like in the Sunday paper are knocked together.

aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
George wrote:

Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.

Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)

How about answering why my three month old Dell says "Made in China" on
the box as well as on the case.

The laptops have been made offshore for ages. Last I looked, their
commercial grade desktops were still assembled in US (Using a lot of
pacific rim components, of course.) Monitors are OEM'd by other vendors,
presumably overseas, as are keyboards and mice and such. No idea where
their consumer-grade machines like in the Sunday paper are knocked
together.


Dimension 9200C fits...where?

dpb wrote:
On May 11, 5:30 pm, George wrote:
Tim Smith wrote:
On 2007-05-11, Matt Barrow wrote:
The best example of this (although it is not a tool company, the
principle still applies) is Dell. The manufacture computers for country
X in or near country X. Dells for the US market, for example, are made
in the US.
Not any more.
You're thinking of Dell's support. They've moved that overseas. They
still build the computers in or near the country they sell them. Note
that support is almost all labor.
Dell computers are made offshore (including the ones customized just for
you). They bring them in large cargo containers and then the cargo
company opens the container and ships the individual units that are
already boxed for shipment.

That's not possible in the time frame of placing an order and getting
delivery in only a few days. AFAIK, they still are assembling
components in the US although I'm not sure whether it's in Austin and
longer. Seems like I heard the built a new facility not too long
(Nashville, maybe???) but don't know if it replaced or augmented
existing facility/(ies)...


Why not? It only takes 16 hours to fly freight over from China. The
"Dell factory" in Memphis is simply the Fedex hub. My nephew flys for
them on that route. The stuff gets put in containers in China
pre-addressed and ready to go. They open the containers here and put the
package into the US parcel system. The label shows it came from TN.

Also it only takes 4 days for stuff to get here by boat. There are
literally thousands of shipments brought in every day by boat.



For the other note, there is no "Made In" sticker on my (relatively
new) tower other than the individual components inside, but nothing
applicable to the box itself as a whole...


Better report that so it can be tracked down. I hear they cut the pay in
half for such mistakes so someone is going to get $8/month when they
find them...

Tim Smith wrote:
In article ,
George wrote:
Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.

Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)


Sorry *most* Dell computers for the US market are made offshore. As I
explained earlier the "Nashville factory" is simply the point where
cargo enters the US parcel delivery system. I don't know about Winston
Salem but that may be another freight carriers hub.

And as someone else suggested you can also cross check this by looking
at the label. Every one I have seen says "Made in China".

aemeijers wrote:
"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
George wrote:
Dell computers for the US market are made offshore.
Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)

How about answering why my three month old Dell says "Made in China" on
the box as well as on the case.

The laptops have been made offshore for ages. Last I looked, their
commercial grade desktops were still assembled in US (Using a lot of
pacific rim components, of course.) Monitors are OEM'd by other vendors,
presumably overseas, as are keyboards and mice and such. No idea where their
consumer-grade machines like in the Sunday paper are knocked together.

aem sends...



Wifes office just got a bunch of new Optiplex machines which are their
"business grade" units and they all have "Made in China" stickers.

"George" wrote in message
Also it only takes 4 days for stuff to get here by boat. There are
literally thousands of shipments brought in every day by boat.

And it takes a hell of a lot longer than four days to see your merchandise.
Containers usually have to be at the port three days in advance of sailing
and it can take up to a week on this end to clear customs and be delivered.
Door to door can easily be 3 to 4 weeks.

In article ,
George wrote:
Most people would not consider Austin, Nashville, and Winston-Salem to
be offshore. :-)


Sorry *most* Dell computers for the US market are made offshore. As I
explained earlier the "Nashville factory" is simply the point where

No, the Nashville factory is a factory:

http://www.statesman.com/business/co.../archive/04100
0_dell.html

Quote from that article:

A year ago, Stacey Shannon was making her living stapling bar-code
tags on rugs at a Nashville carpet maker.

Today the 27-year-old works 25 miles down Interstate 40 in Lebanon,
Tenn., and a world away, building desktop computers for Dell
Computer Corp.

``I didn't think I'd actually know how to build a computer,''
Shannon said. ``Now I know how to build one like the back of my
hand. It's easier than I thought."

More information on the various facilities Dell has in that area, and
what they do:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/g...ffice/en/2006/
2006_06_02_nv_000?c=us&l=en&s=corp

cargo enters the US parcel delivery system. I don't know about Winston
Salem but that may be another freight carriers hub.

Nope. It's a manufacturing facility:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/g...ffice/en/2004/
2004_12_22_rr_000?c=us&l=en&s=gen

http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=10007

A quote from that:

Dell's Winston-Salem plant will produce PowerEdge servers,
PowerVault and Dell/EMC products, and OptiPlex and Dimension desktop
computers primarily for the U.S. market. Winston-Salem's
distribution advantages played into the company's site choice.

Here's an article on how Dell does things:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/bu...l.html?ex=1179
115200&en=35bb32b32772e89a&ei=5070

--
--Tim Smith