I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on yet,
since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not inhabited,
I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months. But I would
like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal just need to
get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines. Is
there a way to tell?

Thanks,

MC

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on yet,
since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not inhabited,
I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months. But I would
like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal just need to
get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines. Is
there a way to tell?

I would take the covers off and see how the wires are connected. Maybe
you can see that the big white wire goes from one box to the next, and
that the connections to the two boxes are in parallel. Or maybe
you'll see red and green to one, and black and yellow to the other, or
some such. That would probably mean two lines.

Right now they have single boxes with two jacks, but I don't know if
they had that when the style here was the most popular. (Although I
think maybe you can still get these.)

Here or in cases where all the wires are in the walls, you can also
use an ohmmeter(sp?) to see what the resistance is between the L1 of
one box and the L1 of the other, the L2's, the L1/L2 and L2/L1, and
any other combination. I suggest more than the minimum measurements
because people can come up with wierd ways to wire things. (I do,
although there is always a good reason. )

And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. My house has never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4 "clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC

"DCT Dictator" wrote in message
...

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines.
Is
there a way to tell?

Open them up. See if they are simply series wired or separate. The
spade lugs from the modular jack - if they are all going to the same
cable pairs it's wired for a single line.

But as long as it's multi pair cable it can be two lines.

BTW - tell us the avocado carpet is going away . . .

yes that is SOOOOOOO going away.

MC

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on
yet,
since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not
inhabited,
I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months. But I would
like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal just need to
get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines.
Is
there a way to tell?

I would take the covers off and see how the wires are connected. Maybe
you can see that the big white wire goes from one box to the next, and
that the connections to the two boxes are in parallel. Or maybe
you'll see red and green to one, and black and yellow to the other, or
some such. That would probably mean two lines.

Right now they have single boxes with two jacks, but I don't know if
they had that when the style here was the most popular. (Although I
think maybe you can still get these.)

Here or in cases where all the wires are in the walls, you can also
use an ohmmeter(sp?) to see what the resistance is between the L1 of
one box and the L1 of the other, the L2's, the L1/L2 and L2/L1, and
any other combination. I suggest more than the minimum measurements
because people can come up with wierd ways to wire things. (I do,
although there is always a good reason. )

And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. My house has never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4 "clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC



Thanks! I will take it off and see what is going on. Just that I have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going to end.

MC

"DCT Dictator" wrote in message
...

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines.
Is
there a way to tell?

Open them up. See if they are simply series wired or separate. The
spade lugs from the modular jack - if they are all going to the same
cable pairs it's wired for a single line.

But as long as it's multi pair cable it can be two lines.

BTW - tell us the avocado carpet is going away . . .

I was however, at one time, thinking of painting the carpet white.

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

(snip)
And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. My house has never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4 "clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC



Thanks! I will take it off and see what is going on. Just that I have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going to end.

Let me add an 11th- if you will be opening and patching walls anyway, and
the house is empty, this is the best chance you will ever have to upgrade
the phone wires to cat 5e or cat6, and a home-run or star topology, vs. the
point-to-point or tree style it probably has now. From your photo, I'd
almost bet 2nd jack is on 2nd pair of RGYB old-style premises wire.
Business/kids/fax line, a non-ma-bell DSL hookup, or something.

aem sends...

On Mar 18, 8:03 am, "aemeijers" wrote:
"MiamiCuse" wrote in message

...





"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

(snip)
And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. My house has never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4 "clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC

Thanks! I will take it off and see what is going on. Just that I have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going to end.

Let me add an 11th- if you will be opening and patching walls anyway, and
the house is empty, this is the best chance you will ever have to upgrade
the phone wires to cat 5e or cat6, and a home-run or star topology, vs. the
point-to-point or tree style it probably has now. From your photo, I'd
almost bet 2nd jack is on 2nd pair of RGYB old-style premises wire.
Business/kids/fax line, a non-ma-bell DSL hookup, or something.

aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Thanks.

On Mar 18, 8:18�am, "DLK" wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:03 am, "aemeijers" wrote:





"MiamiCuse" wrote in message

. ..

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

(snip)
And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. * My house has never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4 "clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. *So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC

Thanks! *I will take it off and see what is going on. *Just that I have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going to end.

Let me add an 11th- if you will be opening and patching walls anyway, and
the house is empty, this is the best chance you will ever have to upgrade
the phone wires to cat 5e or cat6, and a home-run or star topology, vs. the
point-to-point or tree style it probably has now. From your photo, I'd
almost bet 2nd jack is on 2nd pair of RGYB old-style premises wire.
Business/kids/fax line, a non-ma-bell DSL hookup, or something.

aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? *Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

although no dial tone its very possible they are still electricall
live.

unplug at the NID if your going to use a ohmmeter.

I got a suprising shock off a home with no service

DLK wrote:

[snip]

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Thanks.

It's best to disconnect them at the source if you can;
if this is not an option, clip them so there's no bare
metal showing or tape them, and tuck them away.

On Mar 18, 8:33 am, " wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:18?am, "DLK" wrote:



On Mar 18, 8:03 am, "aemeijers" wrote:

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message

. ..

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

(snip)
And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. ? My house has never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4 "clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. ?So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC

Thanks! ?I will take it off and see what is going on. ?Just that I have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going to end.

Let me add an 11th- if you will be opening and patching walls anyway, and
the house is empty, this is the best chance you will ever have to upgrade
the phone wires to cat 5e or cat6, and a home-run or star topology, vs. the
point-to-point or tree style it probably has now. From your photo, I'd
almost bet 2nd jack is on 2nd pair of RGYB old-style premises wire.
Business/kids/fax line, a non-ma-bell DSL hookup, or something.

aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? ?Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

although no dial tone its very possible they are still electricall
live.

unplug at the NID if your going to use a ohmmeter.

I got a suprising shock off a home with no service

those look like demark boxes, they aren't usually used in rooms, but
where the telco first enters the premises. Look around the premises
exterior and see if you can detect where the phone lines enter the
house, then go inside to where they go throught the exterior wall.
it's typically in the basement, and frequently near the electric
service panel. You will probably see a terminal block the incoming
phone line, and one or more branch circuits. Some of us refer to this
as the demark, although, the demark might be a gray plastic box on the
exterior of the premises as well. It depends on the age of the
installation and I suppose where in the U.S. you are. This block might
be an overcurrent/surge device, or not. You might very well find there
is 60 Volts present across the line, with enough current to cause
injury, so be careful and use a voltmeter.
Each line (phone number) requires a pair of wires, but any number of
branch circuits can be tapped of a pair.
I think the previous poster who figured your pix was a jack for the
phone and a jack for the fax is correct. each of those boxes has a
pair, and they are wired in parrallel either right at that location,
or at the real demark. The spring flap boxes, wire staples and shoddy
installation are clues that it was installed by a phone company
employee at some point in time. You can use this wire as a drag line
if you want to upgrade to a home network, or central sound system, or
an alarm system or whatever. so think before destroying it, and if you
still want to hide it and spackle over it, I'd be sure it didn't have
voltage on the wires.
hope this info helps

"timO'" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 18, 8:33 am, " wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:18?am, "DLK" wrote:



On Mar 18, 8:03 am, "aemeijers" wrote:

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message

. ..

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

(snip)
And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and
see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. ? My house has
never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4
"clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four. ?So
I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC

Thanks! ?I will take it off and see what is going on. ?Just that I
have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going
to end.

Let me add an 11th- if you will be opening and patching walls anyway,
and
the house is empty, this is the best chance you will ever have to
upgrade
the phone wires to cat 5e or cat6, and a home-run or star topology,
vs. the
point-to-point or tree style it probably has now. From your photo,
I'd
almost bet 2nd jack is on 2nd pair of RGYB old-style premises wire.
Business/kids/fax line, a non-ma-bell DSL hookup, or something.

aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? ?Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

although no dial tone its very possible they are still electricall
live.

unplug at the NID if your going to use a ohmmeter.

I got a suprising shock off a home with no service

those look like demark boxes, they aren't usually used in rooms, but
where the telco first enters the premises. Look around the premises
exterior and see if you can detect where the phone lines enter the
house, then go inside to where they go throught the exterior wall.
it's typically in the basement, and frequently near the electric
service panel. You will probably see a terminal block the incoming
phone line, and one or more branch circuits. Some of us refer to this
as the demark, although, the demark might be a gray plastic box on the
exterior of the premises as well. It depends on the age of the
installation and I suppose where in the U.S. you are. This block might
be an overcurrent/surge device, or not. You might very well find there
is 60 Volts present across the line, with enough current to cause
injury, so be careful and use a voltmeter.
Each line (phone number) requires a pair of wires, but any number of
branch circuits can be tapped of a pair.
I think the previous poster who figured your pix was a jack for the
phone and a jack for the fax is correct. each of those boxes has a
pair, and they are wired in parrallel either right at that location,
or at the real demark. The spring flap boxes, wire staples and shoddy
installation are clues that it was installed by a phone company
employee at some point in time. You can use this wire as a drag line
if you want to upgrade to a home network, or central sound system, or
an alarm system or whatever. so think before destroying it, and if you
still want to hide it and spackle over it, I'd be sure it didn't have
voltage on the wires.
hope this info helps


Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of tucked
itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to find ways to
figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is difficult to
figure that out without actually having a service and see.

There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

MC

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

(huge snip)
Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of
tucked itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to find
ways to figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is
difficult to figure that out without actually having a service and see.

There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

Multigenerational wiring, including questionable surface wiring under trim
and carpet edges, with god-knows-what splices hidden away in dead spaces, is
another strong argument for just replacing it all, especially if you will
ever be using the lines for data. I'd look in local ad paper for a
free-lance wiring guy, and have him stop by to give an estimate for running
completely fresh inside wiring, starting at the demarc block on the outside.
Lotsa semi-retired or moonlighting Ma Bell guys provide this service, much
cheaper than Ma Bell or anybody with a yellow pages ad. This small town has
at least four of them running ads every week. If he understands you are
willing to do all the drywall patching and painting, his bid may be lower
than you expect. Just tell him you want a modern setup, with everything
home-run to a 110 block in the basement, on a 2'x3' 3/4" plywood wall panel
you will have waiting for him. Two runs of cat 5e, or cat 6, to each room,
even if you don't want data now, would provide that option for you or the
next owner, and if he is pulling wires anyway, the second cable is
relatively cheap to add. An experienced installer can tell you where the
jacks need to be in each room.

aem sends....

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

(huge snip)
Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of
tucked itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to
find ways to figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is
difficult to figure that out without actually having a service and see.

There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

Multigenerational wiring, including questionable surface wiring under trim
and carpet edges, with god-knows-what splices hidden away in dead spaces,
is another strong argument for just replacing it all, especially if you
will ever be using the lines for data. I'd look in local ad paper for a
free-lance wiring guy, and have him stop by to give an estimate for
running completely fresh inside wiring, starting at the demarc block on
the outside. Lotsa semi-retired or moonlighting Ma Bell guys provide this
service, much cheaper than Ma Bell or anybody with a yellow pages ad. This
small town has at least four of them running ads every week. If he
understands you are willing to do all the drywall patching and painting,
his bid may be lower than you expect. Just tell him you want a modern
setup, with everything home-run to a 110 block in the basement, on a 2'x3'
3/4" plywood wall panel you will have waiting for him. Two runs of cat 5e,
or cat 6, to each room, even if you don't want data now, would provide
that option for you or the next owner, and if he is pulling wires anyway,
the second cable is relatively cheap to add. An experienced installer can
tell you where the jacks need to be in each room.

aem sends....




Thanks what you said makes sense. To forget about those old phone wires and
do new ones all over. And yes I will be opening walls, replacing floorings,
replacing baseboards and adding doors etc... anyways.

However I also would like to consider a few things as well...

(1) Do I really need cat5e or cat6 wiring for all rooms with wireless phones
and internet nowadays. Should I really have one set of wiring done to a den
or where my desktop computer will be and where my master phone, printer, fax
etc... will be and just let wireless do the rest or is there inherent value
for have an outlet in every bedroom?

(2) On the contrary, the coax cable is in the same shape. I see cable
coming into the house. where the splitter runs along the outside of the
house under the soffit with splitters that are half way corroded and no coax
outlet in every room. So I think I need to lump the coax cable problem
with this into one bigger problem. I do like to have the option of having a
TV in different rooms and kitchen etc...

So now I am talking myself into running both coax and Cat6 to all rooms. Am
I making sense? What else should I do that may be helpful?

Thanks for all the help again!

MC

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

(huge snip)
Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of
tucked itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to
find ways to figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is
difficult to figure that out without actually having a service and see.

There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

Multigenerational wiring, including questionable surface wiring under
trim and carpet edges, with god-knows-what splices hidden away in dead
spaces, is another strong argument for just replacing it all, especially
if you will ever be using the lines for data. I'd look in local ad paper
for a free-lance wiring guy, and have him stop by to give an estimate for
running completely fresh inside wiring, starting at the demarc block on
the outside. Lotsa semi-retired or moonlighting Ma Bell guys provide this
service, much cheaper than Ma Bell or anybody with a yellow pages ad.
This small town has at least four of them running ads every week. If he
understands you are willing to do all the drywall patching and painting,
his bid may be lower than you expect. Just tell him you want a modern
setup, with everything home-run to a 110 block in the basement, on a
2'x3' 3/4" plywood wall panel you will have waiting for him. Two runs of
cat 5e, or cat 6, to each room, even if you don't want data now, would
provide that option for you or the next owner, and if he is pulling wires
anyway, the second cable is relatively cheap to add. An experienced
installer can tell you where the jacks need to be in each room.

aem sends....




Thanks what you said makes sense. To forget about those old phone wires
and do new ones all over. And yes I will be opening walls, replacing
floorings, replacing baseboards and adding doors etc... anyways.

However I also would like to consider a few things as well...

(1) Do I really need cat5e or cat6 wiring for all rooms with wireless
phones and internet nowadays. Should I really have one set of wiring done
to a den or where my desktop computer will be and where my master phone,
printer, fax etc... will be and just let wireless do the rest or is there
inherent value for have an outlet in every bedroom?

(2) On the contrary, the coax cable is in the same shape. I see cable
coming into the house. where the splitter runs along the outside of the
house under the soffit with splitters that are half way corroded and no
coax outlet in every room. So I think I need to lump the coax cable
problem with this into one bigger problem. I do like to have the option
of having a TV in different rooms and kitchen etc...

So now I am talking myself into running both coax and Cat6 to all rooms.
Am I making sense? What else should I do that may be helpful?

Thanks for all the help again!

A good free-lance installer can discuss all these options with you. Most of
the cost of a professional installation is labor. The even have a fancy
all-in-one cable that has coax, phone, and data cables all prebundled
together, that may or may not be cheaper than seperate cables. Personally, I
hate cheap-ass external wiring poked through the outside walls into each
room- it belongs under house or in attic, out of the weather. Yes, wireless
phones and wireless data are an option, but they aren't as good or reliable
as hardwires, IMHO, for security and speed issues. You or next owner may
want the office in a different room, teenage kids want their own setup in
their room, etc. Will you be keeping the house forever? If not, nice fresh
reliable wiring is a selling point, if the prospective buyer is any kind of
a techie at all. If budget is tight, you can simply have the installer guy
run the wires to each room, and stub them out in an oversize box with a
blank cover, except in the rooms where you currently need hookups. They call
that a 'prewire'. If the requirements change, they can then come back and
add a jack as needed, relatively cheaply. Ma Bell used to do that routinely
in all new construction- remember those round cover plates?

aem sends...

Open 'em up and look. See what colors they used, then check at the outside
interface. Most likely was two different lines.

--
Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
controlling YOUR car.
Check out:
www.lightsout.org




"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on
yet, since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not
inhabited, I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months.
But I would like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal
just need to get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is
necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines.
Is there a way to tell?

Thanks,

MC

If it's in good condition, it can be bleached and dyed. We did that once
with good results. Don't remember the cost however.

--
Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
controlling YOUR car.
Check out:
www.lightsout.org




"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
news
I was however, at one time, thinking of painting the carpet white.

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"timO'" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 18, 8:33 am, " wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:18?am, "DLK" wrote:



On Mar 18, 8:03 am, "aemeijers" wrote:

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message

. ..

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

(snip)
And finally, I'd find where all the phone lines are connected and
see
how it is done and where the wires go from there. ? My house has
never
had more than one line, and the connection place has 4
"clip-strips"
that are used and each wire atttached is attached to all four.
?So I
know nothing fancy is going on.

Thanks,

MC

Thanks! ?I will take it off and see what is going on. ?Just that I
have 10
projects going at the same time now, and it seems its never going
to end.

Let me add an 11th- if you will be opening and patching walls
anyway, and
the house is empty, this is the best chance you will ever have to
upgrade
the phone wires to cat 5e or cat6, and a home-run or star topology,
vs. the
point-to-point or tree style it probably has now. From your photo,
I'd
almost bet 2nd jack is on 2nd pair of RGYB old-style premises wire.
Business/kids/fax line, a non-ma-bell DSL hookup, or something.

aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? ?Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

although no dial tone its very possible they are still electricall
live.

unplug at the NID if your going to use a ohmmeter.

I got a suprising shock off a home with no service

those look like demark boxes, they aren't usually used in rooms, but
where the telco first enters the premises. Look around the premises
exterior and see if you can detect where the phone lines enter the
house, then go inside to where they go throught the exterior wall.
it's typically in the basement, and frequently near the electric
service panel. You will probably see a terminal block the incoming
phone line, and one or more branch circuits. Some of us refer to this
as the demark, although, the demark might be a gray plastic box on the
exterior of the premises as well. It depends on the age of the
installation and I suppose where in the U.S. you are. This block might
be an overcurrent/surge device, or not. You might very well find there
is 60 Volts present across the line, with enough current to cause
injury, so be careful and use a voltmeter.
Each line (phone number) requires a pair of wires, but any number of
branch circuits can be tapped of a pair.
I think the previous poster who figured your pix was a jack for the
phone and a jack for the fax is correct. each of those boxes has a
pair, and they are wired in parrallel either right at that location,
or at the real demark. The spring flap boxes, wire staples and shoddy
installation are clues that it was installed by a phone company
employee at some point in time. You can use this wire as a drag line
if you want to upgrade to a home network, or central sound system, or
an alarm system or whatever. so think before destroying it, and if you
still want to hide it and spackle over it, I'd be sure it didn't have
voltage on the wires.
hope this info helps


Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of
tucked itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to find
ways to figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is
difficult to figure that out without actually having a service and see.

You can purchase a tone set or a tone generator to help solve the mystery.



There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

MC

I echo the replace EVERYTHING!!! I did that here over 10 years ago.
Its a small cost of your overall job.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on yet,
since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not inhabited,
I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months. But I would
like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal just need to
get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines. Is
there a way to tell?

Thanks,

MC


My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.

The easy way to see if you do have two line wiring in the house is to
go to the phone box and see if all 4 wires are made up.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 12:49:45 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:


"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

(huge snip)
Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of
tucked itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to
find ways to figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is
difficult to figure that out without actually having a service and see.

There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

Multigenerational wiring, including questionable surface wiring under trim
and carpet edges, with god-knows-what splices hidden away in dead spaces,
is another strong argument for just replacing it all, especially if you
will ever be using the lines for data. I'd look in local ad paper for a
free-lance wiring guy, and have him stop by to give an estimate for
running completely fresh inside wiring, starting at the demarc block on
the outside. Lotsa semi-retired or moonlighting Ma Bell guys provide this
service, much cheaper than Ma Bell or anybody with a yellow pages ad. This
small town has at least four of them running ads every week. If he
understands you are willing to do all the drywall patching and painting,
his bid may be lower than you expect. Just tell him you want a modern
setup, with everything home-run to a 110 block in the basement, on a 2'x3'
3/4" plywood wall panel you will have waiting for him. Two runs of cat 5e,
or cat 6, to each room, even if you don't want data now, would provide
that option for you or the next owner, and if he is pulling wires anyway,
the second cable is relatively cheap to add. An experienced installer can
tell you where the jacks need to be in each room.

aem sends....




Thanks what you said makes sense. To forget about those old phone wires and
do new ones all over. And yes I will be opening walls, replacing floorings,
replacing baseboards and adding doors etc... anyways.

However I also would like to consider a few things as well...

(1) Do I really need cat5e or cat6 wiring for all rooms with wireless phones
and internet nowadays. Should I really have one set of wiring done to a den
or where my desktop computer will be and where my master phone, printer, fax
etc... will be and just let wireless do the rest or is there inherent value
for have an outlet in every bedroom?

(2) On the contrary, the coax cable is in the same shape. I see cable
coming into the house. where the splitter runs along the outside of the
house under the soffit with splitters that are half way corroded and no coax
outlet in every room. So I think I need to lump the coax cable problem
with this into one bigger problem. I do like to have the option of having a
TV in different rooms and kitchen etc...

So now I am talking myself into running both coax and Cat6 to all rooms. Am
I making sense? What else should I do that may be helpful?

Thanks for all the help again!

MC


Cat 5 is not necessary for phones. If you are getting DSL for
Internet then you only need Cat 5 for that one location. The phone
company will install that.

If you have a network, you will be using wiring from the router
location to each computer and not to the phone service. This wire
should be Cat 5 or you could use wireless.

Likewise, if you are getting cable Internet, the extra computers will
need to be wired to the cable router location.

I would just wait on phone service.

pssst pssst Cat 5 is basically what is used for all phone lines now a
days. No, it's not necessary, but neither are cd's. 8 tracks work fine.

--
Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
controlling YOUR car.
Check out:
www.lightsout.org




"Terry" wrote in message
...
Cat 5 is not necessary for phones. If you are getting DSL for
Internet then you only need Cat 5 for that one location. The phone
company will install that.

If you have a network, you will be using wiring from the router
location to each computer and not to the phone service. This wire
should be Cat 5 or you could use wireless.

Likewise, if you are getting cable Internet, the extra computers will
need to be wired to the cable router location.

I would just wait on phone service.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 12:04:24 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:


Yes it helps thanks!

Unfortunately it seems these wirings were added later and it sort of tucked
itself under door trims, under carpets etc...and now I need to find ways to
figure out which I need and which I don't. I guess it is difficult to
figure that out without actually having a service and see.

Well, you could take a battery and, perhaps with a couple wires with
alligator clips on each end (sold in a 10-pack at Radio Shack, among
other places) and hook the battery up to a pair of phone wires, then
use a meter to find out what jacks go with what pairs.

But I don't see any special need or rush to do that, when you have so
many other things to do, and you can also wait until the phone service
is connected.

If the phones, all or most jacks, were working when the other guy
moved out, they'll still work for you.

I have a friend who works on his car quite a bit, and eventually I
found out that most of what he does is, when he buys a new used car is
to change all the hoses and belts. I otoh have only changed 3 or 4
hoses or belts in the last 30 years, because the ones that are there
seem to last 50 or 100 thousand miles until I get another car.

If I were a contractor coming in to work on your house, I'd want to
get it all done right before I left. But you live there and you don't
charge travel time. So, especially considering all the projects you
have going now, I don't see any problem just redoing the parts you
find ugly, and replacing other stuff as needed.

There are a mixture of older and newer jacks around and I can't find any
pattern or any indication on any plans.

Phone lines were one of the reasons I got the original blueprints for
my house, but they weren't listed iirc. The first owner had put
another layer of sheetrock over most of the bedroom walls, including
covering the phone jack.

MC

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:39:01 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:25:03 -0400, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/P1000720.jpg

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on yet,
since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not inhabited,
I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months. But I would
like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal just need to
get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines. Is
there a way to tell?

Thanks,

MC


My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

The easy way to see if you do have two line wiring in the house is to
go to the phone box and see if all 4 wires are made up.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.


Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. So, you still only need one phone
jack.

"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.


Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. So, you still only need one phone
jack.

If all the devices are on different pairs, a splitter won't work. (Unless
you find one with L1, L2, L3 outputs.) So unless you have the parts on hand
to kludge up a multi-keystone box, daisy-chaining vanilla boxes is the only
option. Trying to do a commercial-type drop with consumer-grade stuff can
be a PITA at times. Other than the over-priced faux LAN stuff at the borg,
retail places only seem to carry residential stuff, and most homeowners
would be clueless as how to order the 'real' parts online.

aem sends...

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:31:09 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.


Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. So, you still only need one phone
jack.

I have a speakerphone from Radio Shack. It's a phone with no ringer
and no dialing, so you need a regular phone too. It had an extra jack
on it for that purpose. However the built-in cord broke off a long
time ago (they do) so it has to be connected using that extra jack.

Since those 3 jacks were here before I bought the house, I don't know
what they were all used for. Maybe someone hadn't heard about the
multi-jack adapters. A lot of people don't know about such things.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Mar 18, 7:22�pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:31:09 -0500, Terry
wrote:





On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.

The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks. *

Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? *One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. *So, you still only need one phone
jack.

I have a speakerphone from Radio Shack. It's a phone with no ringer
and no dialing, so you need a regular phone too. It had an extra jack
on it for that purpose. However the built-in cord broke off a long
time ago (they do) so it has to be connected using that extra jack.

Since those 3 jacks were here before I bought the house, I don't know
what they were all used for. Maybe someone hadn't heard about the
multi-jack adapters. A lot of people don't know about such things.
--
Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

lots of splitters are marginal quality......

so one fopr anwering machine, one for old style standard phone, need
during power failures, and one for cordless.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:22:04 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:31:09 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.


Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. So, you still only need one phone
jack.

I have a speakerphone from Radio Shack. It's a phone with no ringer
and no dialing, so you need a regular phone too. It had an extra jack
on it for that purpose. However the built-in cord broke off a long
time ago (they do) so it has to be connected using that extra jack.

Since those 3 jacks were here before I bought the house, I don't know
what they were all used for. Maybe someone hadn't heard about the
multi-jack adapters. A lot of people don't know about such things.


I can't think of anything that uses a phone line, except a phone, that
does not have an extra jack for the phone.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:34:17 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:22:04 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:31:09 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.


Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. So, you still only need one phone
jack.

I have a speakerphone from Radio Shack. It's a phone with no ringer
and no dialing, so you need a regular phone too. It had an extra jack
on it for that purpose. However the built-in cord broke off a long
time ago (they do) so it has to be connected using that extra jack.

Since those 3 jacks were here before I bought the house, I don't know
what they were all used for. Maybe someone hadn't heard about the
multi-jack adapters. A lot of people don't know about such things.


I can't think of anything that uses a phone line, except a phone, that
does not have an extra jack for the phone.

A lot of people have cordless phones, and some recognize the need to
have a corded phone too.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

In article . com,
"DLK" wrote:

I have a related question: wondering how the wires should be handled
if one simply wants to remove a phone jack from the center of a wall
and drywall over the opening? Does one need to do anything special or
can they be dropped in behind the drywall.

Entombing a splice or working dead-end inside a wall is the LAST thing you
want to do. Access for future needs or trouble isolation is always advisable.

If you must "bury" the wires, ensure that all connections are good, tight and
permanent. Clear/cap any/all dead-end wire. Protect the wire and splices
from potential damage from future intrusion into the wall space.
--

JR

Climb poles and dig holes
Have staplegun, will travel

In article . com,
"timO'" wrote:

those look like demark boxes

They aren't, although they are functionally identical. When used as a demarc,
the device was appropriately labeled as such.

These jacks, while not common, weren't all that rare. The spring-loaded,
swing-down cover provides excellent strain-relief for the cord.

Given the age of those jacks, I'll bet there were TWO lines working at that
location.
--

JR

Mean Evil Bell System
Historical Society

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:41:00 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:34:17 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:22:04 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:31:09 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:51:47 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:24:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:



My guess is that because they are so close together they are for two
lines.


The house I bought had 3 phone jacks within a few inches of each
other. They were all connected to the same line.

The house was built sometime around 1970, but these jacks were added
later. Apparently, one and then the other 2 even later.

If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying it three times.
That's why you need three jacks.


Why would you ever need 3 phone jacks in one spot on the same line?
The guy never heard of a splitter?

One for the phone? One for the computer?...............One for the
Fax?

Two of these have jacks built in. So, you still only need one phone
jack.

I have a speakerphone from Radio Shack. It's a phone with no ringer
and no dialing, so you need a regular phone too. It had an extra jack
on it for that purpose. However the built-in cord broke off a long
time ago (they do) so it has to be connected using that extra jack.

I can't think of anything that uses a phone line, except a phone, that
does not have an extra jack for the phone.

A lot of people have cordless phones, and some recognize the need to
have a corded phone too.

Plus the computer for dial-up. There are big advantages to not
connecting the phone through the modem.

Plus, I have a device which permits unified redial and memory dial
from every touch-tone phone in the house. And other functions I don't
use. Mostly one presses two buttons in the same row or column, so
that he only gets one tone, instead of two, and that tone does things.

Plus, I used to use a neon light, so that when the bell was off, I
could tell if the phone was ringing. I turned the bell off because it
kept waking me up, but the light across the room doesn't.

Plus, I have a dialer, that will call me or a friend if my burglar
alarm goes off. And there are dialers that work with a pendant that
one wears around the neck, if he is old or sick.

Plus, I'm sure some answering machines don't have a second jack -- my
first one didn't -- or as in your example, the second jack on anything
could break.

Plus, if something is worthy saying, it's worth saying three times.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:16:18 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

Climb poles and dig holes
Have staplegun, will travel

That sounds like a phone man slogan.

We worked with lineman and their slogan was......

Dig a hole and set a pole
Hire a man, fire a man
Payday is Friday.

On Mar 18, 1:25 am, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I am remodeling an old house and in some of the rooms on the baseboard are
very old phone jacks. However in the living room and family rooms, they
installed two jacks, like below:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...20room/P100072...

I am trying to figure out why. I do not have the phone line turned on yet,
since the house will be worked on for the next six months and not inhabited,
I don't see the need to pay for a land line for six months. But I would
like to move the jacks into the wall which is not a big deal just need to
get a small box and some drywall patching is all that is necessary.

However, I wonder if these two jacks mean there are two separate lines. Is
there a way to tell?

Thanks,

MC


I have a few of those- I believe they are the phone co's older style
"point of presence" boxes that delineate (or used to) their stuff from
your stuff.

Now that covered RJ-plug style socket is in the box on the outside of
the house for residential service, and the box you see is on the
inside of businesses where only 1 or 2 lines are used.

PO probably had a business at some point.

Dave