Hi again. Similar to my previous thread. I believe it would be more cost effecient to panel a room in whole includeing removal of trim, then panel, replace trim and install cabs.. Your responce is appreciated

Oden writes:

Your opinions will decide.

There are good reasons for either method. Weigh those reasons and decide
which works better for your application, skill, and equipment.

On Jan 20, 2:30 pm, Oden wrote:
I am remodeling my kitchen. I have installed new subflooring and am
ready to install either the tile flooring or base cabinets. I have
searched other web sites and it became evident that my questions answer
is split between pros and novices. Your opinions will decide.

--
Oden

I have been in the construction business for many years now and we have
always set the cabinets first.

We like the finish floor to be just about the last thing install as a
way of protecting it from construction mishaps.

Oden wrote:
I am remodeling my kitchen. I have installed new subflooring and am
ready to install either the tile flooring or base cabinets. I have
searched other web sites and it became evident that my questions answer
is split between pros and novices. Your opinions will decide.




--
Oden

Cabinets first. If you tile first your going to end up with a lot of
expensive tile underneath cabinets.

On 20 Jan 2007 16:11:59 -0800, "Eric9822"
wrote:


Oden wrote:
I am remodeling my kitchen. I have installed new subflooring and am
ready to install either the tile flooring or base cabinets. I have
searched other web sites and it became evident that my questions answer
is split between pros and novices. Your opinions will decide.




--
Oden

Cabinets first. If you tile first your going to end up with a lot of
expensive tile underneath cabinets.

And in a dishwasher space; fowling up the already close fit.
--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

I have been in the construction business for many years now and we have
always set the cabinets first.

We like the finish floor to be just about the last thing install as a
way of protecting it from construction mishaps.


I did the cabinets first too but wonder if it was better the other around
considering all the time taken to trim all the floor tile pieces around the
cabinets and island. Didn't have to fill in all the tiles under the
cabinets, just under the edges so there wouldn't be much tile wasted but
would save a lot of time.

If you do the cabinets first, don't you need to know how thick the flooring
is going to and shim up the base cabinets accordantly? Otherwise, you could
possibly end up with the finished floor 1" higher than the subfloor and the
dishwasher won't fit under the cabinet or the slide in range too high? Just
a question.

# Fred # wrote:
I did the cabinets first too but wonder if it was better the other around
considering all the time taken to trim all the floor tile pieces around the
cabinets and island. Didn't have to fill in all the tiles under the
cabinets, just under the edges so there wouldn't be much tile wasted but
would save a lot of time.

Time isn't the issue, the issue is what is right to do.

If you do the cabinets first, don't you need to know how thick the
flooring
is going to and shim up the base cabinets accordantly?

The original poster said the subfloor is installed and he's
ready for tile, so the floor shouldn't be raised more than
the thickness of a tile.

Otherwise, you could
possibly end up with the finished floor 1" higher than the subfloor and the
dishwasher won't fit under the cabinet or the slide in range too high? Just
a question.

The adjustment feet of the dishwasher and range and precalculated
height of a standard cabinet should make it all work out- never had
a problem in my experience with the exception of very thick Mexican
tiles, which can be over an inch thick. In the rare cases of Mexican
tile going in, we'd have the cabinet people set the cabinets up on
3/4" plywood strips to compensate for the thick tiles.

Here's why you do the cabinets first......
First, so the cabinet people don't work over top of a brand
new tile floor. Grout can get dirty, and tiles shouldn't be worked
on for several days after installation. Cabinets get dragged around
and any sand on the floor can scratch tile as a cabinet drags over
it. Cabinet people will lay their tools and equipment all over the
new tile.
Secondly is the floor level. The cabinets presumedly will be
leveled with shims. This will leave varied gaps under the finished
cabinets. The tile butting up-to the cabinets will hide these
uneven gaps because the gaps will most likely be smaller than
the tile height.

It's not against the law to do the tile first, but in all the
new construction jobs I've done, it was 'cabinets first' for the
above reasons.

thetiler

"thetiler" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| # Fred # wrote:
| I did the cabinets first too but wonder if it was better the other
around
| considering all the time taken to trim all the floor tile pieces
around the
| cabinets and island. Didn't have to fill in all the tiles under the
| cabinets, just under the edges so there wouldn't be much tile wasted
but
| would save a lot of time.
|
| Time isn't the issue, the issue is what is right to do.
|
| If you do the cabinets first, don't you need to know how thick the
| flooring
| is going to and shim up the base cabinets accordantly?
|
| The original poster said the subfloor is installed and he's
| ready for tile, so the floor shouldn't be raised more than
| the thickness of a tile.
|
| Otherwise, you could
| possibly end up with the finished floor 1" higher than the subfloor
and the
| dishwasher won't fit under the cabinet or the slide in range too
high? Just
| a question.
|
| The adjustment feet of the dishwasher and range and precalculated
| height of a standard cabinet should make it all work out- never had
| a problem in my experience with the exception of very thick Mexican
| tiles, which can be over an inch thick. In the rare cases of Mexican
| tile going in, we'd have the cabinet people set the cabinets up on
| 3/4" plywood strips to compensate for the thick tiles.
|
| Here's why you do the cabinets first......
| snipped the stupid comments
left in the good advice
|
| It's not against the law to do the tile first, but in all the
| new construction jobs I've done, it was 'cabinets first'

| thetiler


actually
you NEVER tile first
the weight of the cabinets with countertops (especially natural stone)
will crack the new tiles.

Proper way to install floor tile in kitchen or bathroom.

install cabinets, leaving off the toekick
tile floor and appliance cavities.
grout floor tiles
install finished toe kick.

make sure subflooring (cement board) is installed before cabinets get
installed.

how was that "thetiler"
I left in your good advice this time


|

clipped
|
| Here's why you do the cabinets first......
| snipped the stupid comments
left in the good advice
|
| It's not against the law to do the tile first, but in all the
| new construction jobs I've done, it was 'cabinets first'

| thetiler


actually
you NEVER tile first
the weight of the cabinets with countertops (especially natural stone)
will crack the new tiles.

Weight of the cabinets? That, especially, does not make sense. What
about the fridge? The weight of the cabinets is spread out, and there
is no "give" beneath them. Just for the sake of argument, I would tile
the entire floor just because I like the idea better. If I have a leaky
sink or appliance, it seems it would be best to keep water from getting
under the tile? Tile first, and after all is done, caulk around the
baseboards (being very careful not to muck up the grout lines). That
little feature was in a previous home, and so I caulked after our LR/DR
were tiled.

If a cabinet installer is dropping tools onto a new tile floor, he can
anticipate not being paid until damage he does is repaired. And he
would not be at work in my home unless I was watching.

Oren wrote:
On 20 Jan 2007 16:11:59 -0800, "Eric9822"
wrote:


Oden wrote:
I am remodeling my kitchen. I have installed new subflooring and am
ready to install either the tile flooring or base cabinets. I have
searched other web sites and it became evident that my questions answer
is split between pros and novices. Your opinions will decide.




--
Oden

Cabinets first. If you tile first your going to end up with a lot of
expensive tile underneath cabinets.

And in a dishwasher space; fowling up the already close fit.
--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Tile first, then place protection over tiles to prevent damage from
other workers.

the sagacious dolt wrote:
actually
you NEVER tile first
the weight of the cabinets with countertops (especially natural stone)
will crack the new tiles.

Stick to cabinet installing. With tiles fastened to a
concrete slab with thinset, a car in the kitchen wouldn't
crack them, let alone a couple hundred pounds of
cabinets and tops.
The PSI of cabinets and stone tops wouldn't be near
what the PSI of a human is.

Actually there are circumstances where tile goes in
first (a real professional would have experienced this).
Sometimes in a new construction situation the cabinets
are going to be weeks late, yet the tilework is holding
up the job. The job super may have the tile put down
and cover it so the scheduled remaining work can continue.
Like I said, it's not a law to do cabinets first, just the
best way.

Proper way to install floor tile in kitchen or bathroom.

install cabinets, leaving off the toekick
tile floor and appliance cavities.
grout floor tiles
install finished toe kick.

Amazing the information one can find with Google.

make sure subflooring (cement board) is installed before cabinets get
installed.

Not being a wet area, cement board may not be necessary,
but every homeowner/handyman/know-it-all thinks it is.

how was that "thetiler"
I left in your good advice this time

Good thing you left in my advice so the OP can judge
who is the real contractor here.

thetiler

Not being a wet area, cement board may not be necessary,
but every homeowner/handyman/know-it-all thinks it is.


If cement board is not required, what do you use as an underlayment? Or do
you just lay the tile directly under the subfloor without any underlayment?

Norminn wrote:
clipped
|
| Here's why you do the cabinets first......
| snipped the stupid comments
left in the good advice
|
| It's not against the law to do the tile first, but in all the
| new construction jobs I've done, it was 'cabinets first'

| thetiler


Dolthead wrote:
actually
you NEVER tile first
the weight of the cabinets with countertops (especially natural stone)
will crack the new tiles.

Weight of the cabinets? That, especially, does not make sense. What
about the fridge? The weight of the cabinets is spread out, and there
is no "give" beneath them.

This is why one should refrain from posting when one
has no clue what they're saying. Dolt thinks the psi from
the cabinets and tops is greater than the psi of a small
refrigerator wheel on the tile.

Dolt should stick to installing cabinets or basketweaving
or whatever he does, and stay out of the tile threads.
Plus he's not being helpful, an important reason to be
posting here.

thetiler

clipped

actually
you NEVER tile first
the weight of the cabinets with countertops (especially natural stone)
will crack the new tiles.

Weight of the cabinets? That, especially, does not make sense. What
about the fridge? The weight of the cabinets is spread out, and there
is no "give" beneath them.


This is why one should refrain from posting when one
has no clue what they're saying. Dolt thinks the psi from
the cabinets and tops is greater than the psi of a small
refrigerator wheel on the tile.

Dolt should stick to installing cabinets or basketweaving
or whatever he does, and stay out of the tile threads.
Plus he's not being helpful, an important reason to be
posting here.

thetiler


I hadn't noticed the source was "Dolt", or I would not have responded.
I think he locked the babysitter in the closet, 'cause mommy and daddy
won't let him play with it.

I drop the cabinets, THEN do the tile. Tiling under them is a waste of time
and materials ($$)
I tile partway under the D/W, stopping behind where the D/W kickplate will
sit (before the front "legs"/rollers)
Tile under the fridge and in any W.I. pantries or closets.

R

# Fred # wrote:

Not being a wet area, cement board may not be necessary,
but every homeowner/handyman/know-it-all thinks it is.


If cement board is not required, what do you use as an underlayment? Or do
you just lay the tile directly under the subfloor without any underlayment?

The completed floor must be at least 1 1/4" thick
to be tiled properly. Often a homeowner will lay
tile directly over the sole 3/4" plywood floor.
There must be no flexing so everything must be
glued/screwed tightly or the tile will pop loose or
crack.

That said, assuming the original floor was typical
3/4" construction, the homeowner could glue
and screw 1/2" exterior grade (cdx) plywood
to the 3/4" floor and end up with the required
1 1/4" floor needed to receive tile.

If the floor is not a bathroom, and is always
temperature controlled, plywood is a fine
subflooring material (exterior grade only).
The principle reason to use cementboard is
that it's dimensionally stable- it won't expand
and contract so is more suitable in a home
that might get temperature extremes like up
north, particularly if the home is allowed
to get cold inside, then heated up in the day.

My experience is in SW Florida so the only
expansion/contraction issues I deal with are
exterior applications where it can be in the
40's at night and go up to the 80's in the day.

thetiler

how the heck could you not notice it was"thedolt"
it is right there in front of your eyes
stop replying to it
you will only encourage it to keep doing it
it is following me like my shadow.
I have no more private time
please norminn, check on mother, I will wait here

"Norminn" wrote in message
hlink.net...
| clipped
|
| actually
| you NEVER tile first
| the weight of the cabinets with countertops (especially natural
stone)
| will crack the new tiles.
|
| Weight of the cabinets? That, especially, does not make sense.
What
| about the fridge? The weight of the cabinets is spread out, and
there
| is no "give" beneath them.
|
|
| This is why one should refrain from posting when one
| has no clue what they're saying. Dolt thinks the psi from
| the cabinets and tops is greater than the psi of a small
| refrigerator wheel on the tile.
|
| Dolt should stick to installing cabinets or basketweaving
| or whatever he does, and stay out of the tile threads.
| Plus he's not being helpful, an important reason to be
| posting here.
|
| thetiler
|
|
| I hadn't noticed the source was "Dolt", or I would not have responded.
| I think he locked the babysitter in the closet, 'cause mommy and daddy
| won't let him play with it.

wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| |
| Tile first, then place protection over tiles to prevent damage from
| other workers.
|

now your changing your story
1st it was cabinets first
now you say tile first
you are very confusing and annoying

64.136.26.228

I'd put the cabinets in first...just because it'll make your kitchen
usable that much quicker and save you on tile.

That's the way I did my kitchen, anyhow... and it's decent. Nothing
compared to what thetiler rants about...he probably wears a cape to the
jobsite that has a "tt" iron-on because he's just that good.

Though sometimes, he's right... he did point out that "i'm an idiot"
after posting a question about paint. I guess he's thepainter...but
maybe only in the virtual world.

Thanks for your help tiler guy, hope people poke fun at you for asking
questions sometime...then you'll know what it feels like. Just
because you do this stuff for a living doesn't mean you have to pick on
those of us who don't.

Jason "the idiot"
Valley Center, KS