I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!

wrote:
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

I would venture that a 6-ft fence alone of any type and w/ any
sound-absorbing capability won't make a lot of difference as most of
what you're hearing now isn't coming _through_ the fence but over it.
You might have some success on the filter noise if you could convince
the neighbor (with some cost share, perhaps) to build an enclosure for
it to block the noise at its source, but the folks/party noise is
pretty much a feature of living in a subdivision.

It won't be quick solution, but if the zoning and space allows, the
most effective longer term solution might be a hedge that can reach
8-10 ft or more in height. Lombardy poplars, for example, while I
think they're kinda' ugly, grow quickly and will fill in almost
solidly. Other choices are available, of course.

As to the direct question, I really have no great ideas for outside
application. The DOT fences along freeways tend to rely on extreme
height and thickness and even they, while mega-bucks/mile, aren't all
that effective.

wrote in message
ps.com...
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!

Unfortunately I don't think you'll have much luck. The sounds you are
hearing may be getting reflected off other dwellings. Trees and shrubs help
but your house would look like a compound afterward.

If you are trying to quiet down your HOUSE, as in block the sounds coming in
your home then insulation in the walls will help. If you are trying to
block the noise outside your house, sorry not much you can do in my mind
except plant bushes.

writes:

I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!

Got room for an 8 foot high dirt berm? That's unfortunately about the
only thing that's likely to be very effective in noise reduction.

If you can get on friendly terms with your neighbor and have some
money to throw at the problem, consider a self-serving gift to them of
a noise-reducing enclosure for their filter, and getting invited to
their parties to enjoy em. :-)


--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Hello everyone and thank you for responding. Regarding the height of
the fence. The elevation difference between the neighbors yard and my
yard is about 3 feet (I'm below).The fence is on top of a retaining
wall. I was thinking that a difference of 9 feet would make somewhat
noticable difference in noise level. The pool filter sits right next to
the fence (about a foot), so any sound barrier on the fence would
greatly reduce that noise. Their pool is fairly close to the fence
also.

The parties are kids parties, and being a kid at one time, I remember
always screaming when having a pool party so I'm not going to complain
to the neighbors about that. Kids will be kids, at least it's seasonal.

So I'm still trying to figure out something I can perhaps "fill" in
between the pickets that can withstand the weather.

dpb wrote:
As to the direct question, I really have no great ideas for outside
application. The DOT fences along freeways tend to rely on extreme
height and thickness and even they, while mega-bucks/mile, aren't all
that effective.

Around here, these freeway fences are 30' high and 8" thick. Solid concrete.

On 27 Dec 2006 11:41:29 -0800, "dpb" wrote:


wrote:
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

I would venture that a 6-ft fence alone of any type and w/ any
sound-absorbing capability won't make a lot of difference as most of
what you're hearing now isn't coming _through_ the fence but over it.
You might have some success on the filter noise if you could convince
the neighbor (with some cost share, perhaps) to build an enclosure for

Good idea.

it to block the noise at its source, but the folks/party noise is
pretty much a feature of living in a subdivision.

I have a friend who manufactures and distributes individual noise
enclosures in various shapes and sizes. Some are specifically
designed for party guests.

They are available at a very reasonable cost, and if the OP desires, I
could probably get him a further discount.

It won't be quick solution, but if the zoning and space allows, the
most effective longer term solution might be a hedge that can reach
8-10 ft or more in height. Lombardy poplars, for example, while I
think they're kinda' ugly, grow quickly and will fill in almost
solidly. Other choices are available, of course.

As to the direct question, I really have no great ideas for outside
application. The DOT fences along freeways tend to rely on extreme
height and thickness and even they, while mega-bucks/mile, aren't all
that effective.

wrote:
Hello everyone and thank you for responding. Regarding the height of
the fence. The elevation difference between the neighbors yard and my
yard is about 3 feet (I'm below).The fence is on top of a retaining
wall. I was thinking that a difference of 9 feet would make somewhat
noticable difference in noise level. The pool filter sits right next to
the fence (about a foot), so any sound barrier on the fence would
greatly reduce that noise. Their pool is fairly close to the fence
also.

The parties are kids parties, and being a kid at one time, I remember
always screaming when having a pool party so I'm not going to complain
to the neighbors about that. Kids will be kids, at least it's seasonal.

So I'm still trying to figure out something I can perhaps "fill" in
between the pickets that can withstand the weather.


If anything, you could help mask the noise with a nice water feature
(water fountain,etc...)
-Felder

How about noise canceling headphones?
http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/relxnocahe.html

wrote:

So I'm still trying to figure out something I can perhaps "fill" in
between the pickets that can withstand the weather.

In the tile trade we use 1/4" cork as soundproofing
underlayment. I buy it at the tile dealer but just saw
that Home Depot sells it in 4'x50' rolls.
Since this material is pretty water resistant and
specifically made for soundproofing, along with
being pretty inexpensive (70 cents per sq.ft.), it
could serve your purpose.

For $2 per sq.ft. Nobleseal makes a soundproofing
underlayment that is waterproof, along with having
the soundproofing characteristics. It is about 1/8"
thick and very tough and durable.

BTW, the materials can be doubled up for much
improved soundproofing, and are tested and proven
to greatly reduce sound.

the tiler

buffalo ny: in our pool, the population increases as air temperatures
rise above 80 degrees F on sunny days. if it's over 90 degrees, nobody
leaves. our kids have always had a pool sized from the baby inflatable
pools on up, but never a pool deeper than their chins. i've been a
lifeguard, wife and 2 kids both swim [including son who was on swim
team in high school.] [even a neighbor's kid on swim team later too.]
the 1990 pool is a 24 ft round x 4 ft deep with about 42" of water.
we have a plain wooden stockade fence. but our friend in vegas has tall
rear yard concrete block walls common to his area that completely
separate each of the new properties. probably 10 ft tall. if there is a
party in the next pool yard you still hear it. always explore the fence
ordinance for all your requirements, and first match up your survey
with the neighbor's survey. you might consult an architect. explore air
conditioning and that "home theater sound system" or " as we call it, a
"stereo" so your windows can be closed.

wrote:
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!

On 27 Dec 2006 10:11:36 -0800, wrote:

I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!

Many use hedges of dense evergreen to mask noises. I vote for
plants.

And yes, the fence will block the direct path of the noise and will
help.

And yes, you can mask the noise with something more desirable.

On 28 Dec 2006 02:59:44 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

....
we have a plain wooden stockade fence. but our friend in vegas has tall
rear yard concrete block walls common to his area that completely
separate each of the new properties. probably 10 ft tall. if there is a
party in the next pool yard you still hear it. always explore the fence
ordinance for all your requirements, and first match up your survey
with the neighbor's survey. you might consult an architect. explore air
conditioning and that "home theater sound system" or " as we call it, a
"stereo" so your windows can be closed.

Wayne Newton has 10' or taller fences, but we biddy folks don't.

For the OP. Many public buildings use a variety of panels to deaden
sound and avoid echo. Some are these are simply a piece of carpert
hanging like a picture.. Knowing where to place them is what is the
most important.

http://www.soundprooffoam.com/quiet-barrier.html

http://www.tenant.net/Rights/Noise/noise3.html


wrote:
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!


--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

A natural solution?

If you have the retaining wall and install a board on board fence which
provides you 9' of protection, you will notice a little difference. Is
there space to add a row of cedars shrubs (4'-5'wide)?
White cedars are inexpensive and will grow to 20' - 30'. In normal
conditions they will grow 1' per year. You can trim the bottom of
these shrubs aggressively as to control the width of the hedging. The
roots are soft and shallow and will not normally cause issues with
retaining walls and pools until 30-50 years.

Some minor insect control issues should be followed because cedars
provide shelter for the mosquitoes. Make sure you and your party
animal neighbor control any standing water on you property (everyone
should be doing this anyway)

A simple wood trellis against the wall of the house(s) with a vine can
reduce some of the reflective noises.

As mention on one of the postings, a water fall with a pond can help a
great deal.

Note: Review the by-law for fence height restrictions, swimming pool
enclosure by-laws, and noise by-law.

From Richard of
http://designedlandscapes.blogspot.com/

buffalobill wrote:
buffalo ny: in our pool, the population increases as air temperatures
rise above 80 degrees F on sunny days. if it's over 90 degrees, nobody
leaves. our kids have always had a pool sized from the baby inflatable
pools on up, but never a pool deeper than their chins. i've been a
lifeguard, wife and 2 kids both swim [including son who was on swim
team in high school.] [even a neighbor's kid on swim team later too.]
the 1990 pool is a 24 ft round x 4 ft deep with about 42" of water.
we have a plain wooden stockade fence. but our friend in vegas has tall
rear yard concrete block walls common to his area that completely
separate each of the new properties. probably 10 ft tall. if there is a
party in the next pool yard you still hear it. always explore the fence
ordinance for all your requirements, and first match up your survey
with the neighbor's survey. you might consult an architect. explore air
conditioning and that "home theater sound system" or " as we call it, a
"stereo" so your windows can be closed.

wrote:
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!

On Wednesday, December 27, 2006 11:41:36 PM UTC+5:30, wrote:
I'll be replacing a fence that borders with a neighbor. It's redwood
picket fence, about 6' high. The neighbor has a pool, so I thought I
might as well try and cut down the noise from the filter and parties
they have, if possible.

I was thinking about building a fence with pickets on both sides so I
can place some sort of noise insulation in between. However, I need
ideas what I could use.

Any advice appreciated!


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wrote:

Thank you being a low life SPAMMER again!

Personally, I'm thinking that's the kind of fence you actually need to stop noise from a neighbor's yard.

I'm certainly no expert on accoustics, but this web page should be read by anyone interested in reducing noise in their home:

ARCHIVED - Sound Transmission Through Building Components - IRC - NRC-CNRC

It's a study done by the Canadian National Research Council into how noise travels through walls and windows, and the most effective ways to stop that noise.

One of the points that study makes the loudest is that to stop noise you have to close any "flanking paths" where noise can go around the barrier you put in place to stop it. And, in the case of a fence outdoors, the higher you can make that fence, the more difficult it is for noise to go around it. So, a 6 foot or even an 8 foot fence isn't gonna do squat because noise will just go over it. And, unfortunately, your city probably has a by-law limiting the height of the fence you can build around your property. I'm sure 30 feet wouldn't be allowed.

Ignorance is fertile ground for misconceptions and misinformation to grow, and since MOST aspects of DIY work aren't taught anywhere, the resulting lack of knowledge has resulted in the whole area of DIY being full of people's misconceptions and misunderstanding of the principles. Sticking insulation inside stud cavities is a perfect example of that kind of misinformation. Insulation inside a stud wall will do almost nothing to reduce the noise level.

The best two ways to stop noise a

1. putting a two part barrier up to stop the noise, and physically separating the two parts so that the movement of one won't cause any movement of the other. That's because sound waves DO NOT go through barriers; they bounce off them and go around them.

When a sound wave hits a wall, it causes the wall to move slightly, and the movement of the wall causes another sound wave to be produced on the opposite side of the wall. It's that reproduced sound wave you hear, not the original. By having that wall made in two parts so that the movement of one side of the wall will not result in the movement of the other side, you prevent that second side of the wall from producing a sound wave.

Here, you need to have the fence high enough to prevent the noise from just going over the fence, but also you need to build the fence in two parts so that one side of the fence can move without causing the opposite side of the fence to move. Thus, a sound wave hitting one side of the fence won't result in a sound wave being reproduced on the other side of the fence.

2. What stops noise is MASS. This follows as a direct result of the manner in which sound propogates through walls, floors and ceilings. Remember, the sound wave doesn't pass through the walls, floors or ceilings, it causes them to move, and the movement of the walls, floors and ceilings causes another sound wave to be produced on the opposite side of the wall, floor or ceiling.

Imagine you have a noisy machine on one side of a wall, floor or ceiling and a listener on the other side. The MASS LAW of accoustics says that for every doubling of either:

A. the mass of the wall, floor or ceiling per unit area, or

B. the frequency of the sound hitting the wall, floor or ceiling,

the sound pressure level on the opposite side of that wall, floor or ceiling will be reduced by 6 decibels, or to approximately 1/4 of it's initial level. (But, our hearing isn't linear, and we hear quiet noises much better than we hear loud ones, and so the APPARANT reduction in noise level will be much less.)

The reason why the mass of the noise barrier and the frequency of the noise are important is ENTIRELY because sound doesn't travel through noise barriers, it's the movement of the barrier that recreates the sound waves hitting it.

Newton's law is Force = Mass X Acceleration. Sound is nothing more than air pressure variations, so the more rapidly the air changes pressure, the louder the sound wave will seem to your ears. There's only a certain amount of force with which the sound wave hits the wall. So, by increasing the mass of the wall, you reduce the acceleration with which the wall moves as a result, and that means that the rate of change of air pressure of the sound wave reproduced on the other side of the wall will be lower. Slower change in air pressure means a quieter reproduced sound wave.

Also, the heavier the noise barrier, the more inertia it has, and that inertia prevents it from changing it's direction of motion quickly. So, the higher the frequency of the sound waves hitting a wall, floor or ceiling (or any kind of noise barrier) the more the inertia of the noise barrier will prevent that noise barrier from reproducing those sound waves on the other side. It's precisely this filtering out of the higher frequency sound waves that result in your hearing a "BOOM - BOOM - BOOM" in your apartment when someone else in the apartment block is having a party at 3:00 in the morning. The walls, floors and ceilings are heavy and have too much inertia to respond to the high frequencies in the music, and so all the midrange and high frequencies get filtered out, and all you hear is the base line. It's not until you get closer to the apartment and can hear the music coming from under and reproduced by the much lighter door that you hear those higher frequencies and can identify what song is being played.

So, knowing how to stop noise requires that you know how it propogates. And, it's precisely that physics that tells you that stuffing the stud cavities of a wall with light weight insulation isn't going to do much. While that insulation might dampen the movement of the drywall between the studs, the drywall on both sides of the wall is connected by the wooden studs so any movement of one side of the wall is going to be reproduced near perfectly on the other side of the wall with or without that insulation. So, stuffing a fence with a light weight movement damping material won't do any more good than stuffing stud cavities in a wall with insulation. Pouring sand in between two fences would do much more to stop the noise from on yard getting into another, but only if the fence is high enough to prevent the noise from just going over the fence.

Anyhow, now you know WHY the noise barriers between highways and homes are 30 feet high and made of 8 inch thick solid concrete. You need the height to prevent the noise from just going around the noise barrier by going over it, and you need the mass to minimize the sound waves reproduced by the noise barrier.

But, that kind of fence is what's needed to be effective in stopping noise from one yard from annoying the neighbors in the next yard. The shorter and lighter weight you make the fence the less effective at stopping noise it will be.