We are trying to replace the light in our late-60s era swimming pool.
Our electrician told us
in advance that new 8" lights were no longer available so he was going
to have to use an
adapter. That was the plan, but now when he is trying to install it
things don't match up
the way he assumed they wood.

Here is a photo of the new light and adapter:

http://www.efsowell.us/pool/NineInchAdaptor.JPG

and the niche in the wall of the pool:

http://www.efsowell.us/pool/niche.JPG

The electrician thinks the ears on the back of the adapter are
supposed to slip INSIDE the niche,
but they won't. That is, the inside diameter of the niche is smaller
than the diameter formed by the
mounting ears on the adapter.

I told him it looked like the ears were supposed to fit on the OUTSIDE
of the niche. That would require
chiseling out notches in the concrete that the adapter ears would slip
into, and drilling through the
niche wall from the inside to screw into the threaded holes in the
adapter.

I know for sure his method won't work, but I'm not sure mine will
either.

Any thoughts on how to proceed?

Or, does anyone know where to get the old 8" lights?

TIA

Ed

What I gather is that it looks like the tabs SHOULD fit into the opening
then the new light fixture should attach to the new bezel. But what would
hold the tabs in place? Is the hole too small for the tabs, if so by how
much?

Searcher

Searcher,

That's what the electrician thinks too, but the diameter of the niche
is
quite a bit too small to accept the OD of the mounting tabs. However,
when I hold the adaptor up to the niche it looks like the ID of the
tabs
might fit the OD of the niche.

Let me explain that a little better. I'm handicapped by not being able
to make
accurate measurements without tumbling into the pool.

The niche is kind of like a can made of stainless
steel or brass or something. The wall looks to be about 1/16" or
0.090" or so.
Lets say the ID of the can is 8", so the OD is about 8.2". The adaptor
tabs are equally spaced around the
circumference and are about 1/4" thick. It looks like the circle
defined by the
inside of the tabs is about 8 1/4", i.e., about the same as the OD of
the can. The circle
defined by the outside of the tabs is about 8 3/4".

The electrician thinks the adapter is held in place by screws that go
radially outward, biting into
the inner wall of the niche can much like a set screw. The holes in
the tabs are threaded, so
that would work if the ID of the niche can was large enough, but there
is no way that can happen.

My theory is the tabs are supposed to fit OVER the niche can rather
than into it. The screws would
then go through holes drilled through the can. As I said, this would
require breaking concrete at 3 places
around the niche can to accept the tabs.

Ed

"Shopdog" wrote in message
news:fKv4h.3545$Ue.2603@trndny03...
What I gather is that it looks like the tabs SHOULD fit into the
opening then the new light fixture should attach to the new bezel.
But what would hold the tabs in place? Is the hole too small for
the tabs, if so by how much?

Searcher

Ed writes:

Any thoughts on how to proceed?

Is it possible the adapter fits over the old niche like you suspect, and
you're supposed to plaster over the edges? Not clear how you're getting a
larger size fitted to something smaller otherwise.

Or, does anyone know where to get the old 8" lights?

What was wrong with the old ones that couldn't be repaired?

Sounds like you need a pool guy instead of an electrician.

"Ed" wrote in message
t...
We are trying to replace the light in our late-60s era swimming pool. Our
electrician told us
in advance that new 8" lights were no longer available so he was going to
have to use an
adapter. That was the plan, but now when he is trying to install it things
don't match up
the way he assumed they wood.

Here is a photo of the new light and adapter:

http://www.efsowell.us/pool/NineInchAdaptor.JPG

and the niche in the wall of the pool:

http://www.efsowell.us/pool/niche.JPG

The electrician thinks the ears on the back of the adapter are supposed to
slip INSIDE the niche,
but they won't. That is, the inside diameter of the niche is smaller than
the diameter formed by the
mounting ears on the adapter.

I told him it looked like the ears were supposed to fit on the OUTSIDE of
the niche. That would require
chiseling out notches in the concrete that the adapter ears would slip
into, and drilling through the
niche wall from the inside to screw into the threaded holes in the
adapter.

I know for sure his method won't work, but I'm not sure mine will either.

Any thoughts on how to proceed?

Or, does anyone know where to get the old 8" lights?

TIA

Ed

Richard,

Thanks for the reply.

To answer your questions, the adaptor is designed to position the
light outward an
inch or so from the wall of the pool. Since the back of the light is
tapered,
its diameter at the entrance to the niche is smaller. You are right,
the cavities
that are chiseled out of the concrete (plaster?) to accept the adaptor
mounting tabs
would have to be filled in afterwards.

The lights are made with a long cord to reach to a junction box.
Originally, our junction box
was flush with the deck about 12' back. Newer electric codes don't
allow a junction box to
be mounted flush with the deck, so we now have to put the junction box
at the cabana 40'
away. So, we needed a new light. Also, ours had been in service for at
least 15 years.

Ed

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Ed writes:

Any thoughts on how to proceed?

Is it possible the adapter fits over the old niche like you suspect,
and
you're supposed to plaster over the edges? Not clear how you're
getting a
larger size fitted to something smaller otherwise.

Or, does anyone know where to get the old 8" lights?

What was wrong with the old ones that couldn't be repaired?

Yeah, I guess so. The electrician is a friend of one of our members,
and did claim to have
a lot of pool experience. He came in at $1200 for the work, and the
company that replaced the
skimmers wanted $1500. If I could roll back the clock....

Ed


"Craven Morehead" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you need a pool guy instead of an electrician.

I'm thinking:: What about the tabs, will they fit around the can like
receptacle? On the outside? What if you notch out where the tabs go and
epoxy the mounting plate to the wall? The tabs will still give support and
the epoxy will hold the plate as well as seal out water.

Searcher

Searcher,

That's what I'm thinking... tabs fitting around the outside of the
can. If the concrete/plaster
were notched out enough to get an Allen wrench in there we might even
be able to lock it to the can with set screws.

I'm also searching for someone who still sells lights that fit the
older niches.

Ed


"Shopdog" wrote in message
news:GLJ4h.11145$bg7.5979@trndny04...
I'm thinking:: What about the tabs, will they fit around the can
like receptacle? On the outside? What if you notch out where the
tabs go and epoxy the mounting plate to the wall? The tabs will
still give support and the epoxy will hold the plate as well as seal
out water.

Searcher

Ed writes:

The lights are made with a long cord to reach to a junction box.

I have those same old lights. They just have a tube going through the niche
for the cord, which tube is caulked with (these days) 3M 5200 polyurethane
to make it watertight. I know this because it was the source of a pesky
leak for years until I discovered it (see http://www.truetex.com/pool.htm
near the end). So you could certainly run new wire if that is all you need,
and retrofit it into the old niches and lights. They seem to be
bulletproof stainless construction; a shame to waste them.

Ed writes:

I'm also searching for someone who still sells lights that fit the
older niches.

See http://www.grainger.com/ and search for keyword "pool light" and then
select "lights, swimming pool" for a half dozen fixtures that might fit.

The old ones show up on eBay now and then.

Richard,

Thanks for the replies.

So you're saying one can fit a new cord to the light? I was under the
impression that the light assembly
had the cord attached and bonded to the SS cone at the factory, making
it all water tight. The cord
on the old light is too short for the new location of the junction
box.

But you raise a point that has been bothering me. The picture I have
of these things is there is a red
brass conduit attached to the back side of the niche "can," and the
cord of the light assembly feeds through
it to the junction box. I've also read that the light assembly is
totally surrounded by water all the
time, and depends on that for cooling. So, I have been wondering what
prevented pool water from
leaking like crazy through the conduit and into the junction box. But
perhaps that's where the polyurethane
sealant is used?

An interesting side light (no pun intended) is our old light didn't
even have a junction box. Apparently,
when the light was replaced 10-15 years ago the electrician ripped out
the original deck-level box,
wired the new light cord to the wires going on to the service, and
filled the hole with concrete!
So when we broke the old deck out instead of finding a junction box
between the red brass and the
steel conduit to the service we found this blob of concrete.

That pool project of yours is an impressive piece of work.

Ed



"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
Ed writes:

The lights are made with a long cord to reach to a junction box.

I have those same old lights. They just have a tube going through
the niche
for the cord, which tube is caulked with (these days) 3M 5200
polyurethane
to make it watertight. I know this because it was the source of a
pesky
leak for years until I discovered it (see
http://www.truetex.com/pool.htm
near the end). So you could certainly run new wire if that is all
you need,
and retrofit it into the old niches and lights. They seem to be
bulletproof stainless construction; a shame to waste them.

Ed writes:

The picture I have
of these things is there is a red
brass conduit attached to the back side of the niche "can," and the
cord of the light assembly feeds through
it to the junction box. I've also read that the light assembly is
totally surrounded by water all the
time, and depends on that for cooling.

Yes, that's called a "wet niche" design. There are also "dry niche" types.

So, I have been wondering what
prevented pool water from
leaking like crazy through the conduit and into the junction box. But
perhaps that's where the polyurethane
sealant is used?

Right. No reason you can rewire it and recaulk it.