This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

Thanks Edwin! Very entertaining. I often wonder why I work so hard and stand
behind my work. I could make so much more money if I were a lying piece of
crap.

AZCRAIG


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.net...
This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.net...
This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html
Friend of mine took his car to a Jiffy Lube in AZ for oil change and
transmission oil change. 3 months later he went back to get another oil
change and they showed him how badly his transmission needed an oil change
because the oil was so dirty. He informed them that they apparently hadn't
given him the transmission service he had paid for three months before and
demanded a refund. He got it and never went back to that place. It's not
just the national chains that do this crap. I went to a local car wash/ oil
change place in Mesa, AZ. They had a waiting room that overlooked the
service bays. While waiting I get a page to pick up the courtesy phone
which just happens to be at a window overlooking the service bay. It's a
tech below the window showing me a paper towel. He wipes my tranny dipstick
on the towel and proceeds to tell me how dirty and burnt the oil is. And at
the right moment as if on cue, another tech runs up and squirts some fresh
transmission fluid on the towel to show me what it's supposed to look like.
He may have been right but 25 plus years as a salesman makes me a little too
skeptical of "canned" sales pitches. I passed.

Tom G

Thank you for posting that story.......
Ed B
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.net...
This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

"cm" wrote in message
...
Thanks Edwin! Very entertaining. I often wonder why I work so hard and
stand behind my work. I could make so much more money if I were a lying
piece of crap.

AZCRAIG
:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

Yeah, but you can sleep well.

It is hard to find a really good mechanic. They don't come cheap, but are
worth every penny. I used one recently that was 100% honest, but just not
competent. Found another that is both.

my elderly mother went to penzoil quick oil change . they scared her
to get a "radiator flush" and "transmission flush" . i was so mad that i
went down there and got her money back. i showed them the dirt stil in
both. they said " the flush doesnt get it all out". and true flush runs
water thru the whole cooling system till it runs clear,then refill. and
a trans fill requires getting all the old fluid out before fill.what
ripp off artists. lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html



I'm not suprised one bit.

I generally use Jiffy Lube for oil changes, just to save the time of
having to drop my car off somewhere and return for it, but I never let
'em sell me anything BUT an oil/filter change. And, I watch through the
window and raise the hood before I leave to make sure the part of the
filter I can see looks brand new. (I suppose they could just wipe the
grime off the old one, huh?)

Jiffy Lube around here had an obnoxious practice of tacking on an extra
buck and a half to their advertised prices for "waste oil disposal".
That charge was described on a small notice on the front of the service
counter of a size which a lawyer would describe as, "One designed to
suppress the transfer of information."

That practice violated a state law here which says that places selling
motor oil in quantities greater than some limited amount (Like maybe the
few quarts a week that a "Store 24" would sell.) had to take used oil in
for disposal at no charge.

I expect that law was designed to encourage DIY oil changers to return
used oil to a merchant rather than just dumping it down a storm drain to
avoid paying a disposal charge.

After a couple of years of paying that fee, and just for ****s and
grins, I tossed a two gallon gan in my car when I went to Jiffy Lube for
an oil change and asked if they'd put my old oil in it. I told the guy
that I heated my garage/workshop with a waste oil burner in the winter.
They refused, saying it was against company policy to do that.

Somebody with more time to waste than me must have pushed the matter,
because last year SWMBO and I each received a $5 settlement coupon from
Jiffy Lube, which I'm sure was far less than the total of the $1.50
charges we'd paid several times a year for at least five years, but half
a loaf is better than none, isn't it?

Well, maybe not....

When I tried using the $5 settlement coupon on our next oil change my
local Jiffy Lube place didn't consider it the same as "cash". They
wouldn't let me use it in conjunction with the "$8 off your next oil
change" card they always send me a couple of months after I've been
there. It was "one or the other", so I used the "$8 off" one, tore up
the $5 settlement card, and dropped it in their wastebasket.

Just to find out whether this was maybe a local Jiffy Lube asshole
excersizing his "positional authority" I rang up their 800 number and
was told by a Jiffy Lube customer relations guy that the "terms of that
settlement" included permitting them to not accept those $5 settlement
cupons in conjunction with any other discounts. He did tell me that I
was far from the first irritated customer to call about that.

Some "settlement", huh? They're just another bunch of sharp cookies
selling Girl Scouts.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

Jeff Wisnia posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html



I'm not suprised one bit.

I generally use Jiffy Lube for oil changes, just to save the time of
having to drop my car off somewhere and return for it, but I never let
'em sell me anything BUT an oil/filter change. And, I watch through the
window and raise the hood before I leave to make sure the part of the
filter I can see looks brand new. (I suppose they could just wipe the
grime off the old one, huh?)

Jiffy Lube around here had an obnoxious practice of tacking on an extra
buck and a half to their advertised prices for "waste oil disposal".
That charge was described on a small notice on the front of the service
counter of a size which a lawyer would describe as, "One designed to
suppress the transfer of information."

That practice violated a state law here which says that places selling
motor oil in quantities greater than some limited amount (Like maybe the
few quarts a week that a "Store 24" would sell.) had to take used oil in
for disposal at no charge.

I expect that law was designed to encourage DIY oil changers to return
used oil to a merchant rather than just dumping it down a storm drain to
avoid paying a disposal charge.

After a couple of years of paying that fee, and just for ****s and
grins, I tossed a two gallon gan in my car when I went to Jiffy Lube for
an oil change and asked if they'd put my old oil in it. I told the guy
that I heated my garage/workshop with a waste oil burner in the winter.
They refused, saying it was against company policy to do that.

Somebody with more time to waste than me must have pushed the matter,
because last year SWMBO and I each received a $5 settlement coupon from
Jiffy Lube, which I'm sure was far less than the total of the $1.50
charges we'd paid several times a year for at least five years, but half
a loaf is better than none, isn't it?

Well, maybe not....

When I tried using the $5 settlement coupon on our next oil change my
local Jiffy Lube place didn't consider it the same as "cash". They
wouldn't let me use it in conjunction with the "$8 off your next oil
change" card they always send me a couple of months after I've been
there. It was "one or the other", so I used the "$8 off" one, tore up
the $5 settlement card, and dropped it in their wastebasket.

Just to find out whether this was maybe a local Jiffy Lube asshole
excersizing his "positional authority" I rang up their 800 number and
was told by a Jiffy Lube customer relations guy that the "terms of that
settlement" included permitting them to not accept those $5 settlement
cupons in conjunction with any other discounts. He did tell me that I
was far from the first irritated customer to call about that.

Some "settlement", huh? They're just another bunch of sharp cookies
selling Girl Scouts.

Jeff


But yet you STILL go... Shame on you.
--
Tekkie

"Tekkie®" wrote in message
. ..
Jeff Wisnia posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

Well, make up your mind... Bottom posting is just as bad as top posting...

....and apparently you don't trim your posts either.

Some "settlement", huh? They're just another bunch of sharp cookies
selling Girl Scouts.

Jeff


But yet you STILL go... Shame on you.
--
Tekkie

Tekkie® wrote:

snipped


But yet you STILL go... Shame on you.

Confucius said: "When rape is inevitable, lie back and try and enjoy it."

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Tekkie® wrote:

snipped


But yet you STILL go... Shame on you.

Confucius said: "When rape is inevitable, lie back and try and enjoy it."

Jeff

Actually, I went to one only once. The name is "Jiffy" Lube. So when they
told me there was an hour wait I left and never went back. A couple of years
ago a local radiator repair shop put in a lube rack. I can go there during
the day since it is near work. Only ever waited more than 10 minutes one
time.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:19:08 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Actually, I went to one only once. The name is "Jiffy" Lube. So when they
told me there was an hour wait I left and never went back. A couple of years
ago a local radiator repair shop put in a lube rack. I can go there during
the day since it is near work. Only ever waited more than 10 minutes one
time.

Its been around more than 30 years now but there is a Canadian chain
Mr Lube plus a few competitor chains that have this oil change
facility. You wait in you car and drive right into the road level bay
(or in a few older facilities on a raised ramp) when a bay is
available. If there are more than five cars waiting in line its I
come back during a less busy time. Its rare that I have to wait more
than half an hour for an oil change, and all this done without getting
out of the car. In many lube shops you get free coffee and a
complimentary newspaper too to make your wait more pleasant.

There is a work pit right under each car bay accessible from the lower
level room. One guy works from the road level and the other guy from
the pit. Its a beautifully coordinated process. The work is done
while you are still in the car parked over that bay. You should be
able to drive out within 10 to 15 minutes. Its impossible to fake any
work because you can see or feel work being done. Or if you are
interested enough you can get out of the car to watch the engine oil
being sucked out, filters changed, grease being applied, brakes
checked, etc. You have a choice of the house oil or a brand name oil
and they tear the seal open from new 1 liter containers to do the
pour. The empty containers are discarded. They'll do the 30 point
maintenance check and make a report on the things that need to be
looked into but they don't do any repair work. You can go to any
independent repair shop.

MIDAS MUFFLER pittsburgh was ripping people like that! I once told the
story to Ron Moore president of Midas. He denied it buty I goit my
refund!

About 3 months later a investigative report at a local tv station broke
the news.

people who i had told and apparently didnt believe me were stunned.

the best thing that could happen is jiffy lube goes belly up
nationwide.

companies wouldnt pull stuff l;ike tis if those who got caught were put
out of business.

bridgestone firestone should of gone been put out of business as a
example.

i use my local mechanic or wall mart. cant beat 14 bucks for a oil
change, and they dont try to sell you extra car stuff, they let you
wait by shopping....

I have my own office machine repair business, I DONT pull stuff like
that since I hate it whhen people do it to me!

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

There is a book, "What auto mechanics don't want you to know" by Mark
Eskeldson, that I read recently. In it, they outlined all of the scams
from major chains for oil changes, transmission, mufflers, etc. Midas
and Sears were specifically mentioned and many of the lawsuits were
from California, where this report was from and it was the same
line...they get away with it, so it's not worth performing the work.
One chain in the book was honored with "having lawsuits in 14 states
simultaneously," which the author found rather "difficult to
accomplish." An example suit was the "$59.99 brake job" that you used
to see everywhere and they found that less than 5% of the cars
qualified because the terms excluded semi-metallic pads which is was
almost every car was using at the time of the investigation. The
"average" brake job at these supposed convenience brake specialists ran
$160-$200.

Anyway, the book also outlines how to find a good mechanic, what you
should expect (maybe a higher hourly rate, but much better services,
etc.). It's a bit dated and the Internet has certainly opened
communication to the benefit of the consumer, but well worth the read.

He also wrote "what your car dealer doesn't want you to know," which
was quite informative as well.

For many things (brakes/rotors for example), I took a basic repair
class at a local tech school (at night) and not only learned
information (i.e., how low can a pad go before it really needs to be
replaced), but I had access to a lift, tire machine and tools that I
could never afford myself for 12 weeks. By simply replacing my pads
and rotors, I made back the tuition compared to what the job was quoted
for at the place I used to go to.

I also found, through the instructor's network, a place that has proven
to be very reliable and honest...we've been there a few times for
things that we can't do at home and parts are priced within what we
could purchase them for online and the labor rate is very competitive.

wrote in message
From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

There is a book, "What auto mechanics don't want you to know" by Mark
Eskeldson, that I read recently.

Anyway, the book also outlines how to find a good mechanic, what you
should expect (maybe a higher hourly rate, but much better services,
etc.). It's a bit dated and the Internet has certainly opened
communication to the benefit of the consumer, but well worth the read.

When I lived in PA, you had to have your car inspected by a state approved
garage twice a year. Now I think it is once a year plus emissions.

There were a few different types of stations:
A) Give me your $6 and I'll put the sticker on as long as no one is
watching.

B) Your car is almost OK, but you need some minor repair that I can make a
quick buck on. (I took three cars to one station the same day and all three
needed headlight adjustment for $5. Six months later they all needed wiper
blades) In reality, all three needed more expensive work but as a teenager,
this was a good resolution.

C) Wow, good thing you came in. You need new ball joints, or steering rods,
or some front end part that you'll never check to see what I did.

Maybe one station in 10 was completely honest.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.com...

wrote in message
From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

There is a book, "What auto mechanics don't want you to know" by Mark
Eskeldson, that I read recently.

Anyway, the book also outlines how to find a good mechanic, what you
should expect (maybe a higher hourly rate, but much better services,
etc.). It's a bit dated and the Internet has certainly opened
communication to the benefit of the consumer, but well worth the read.

When I lived in PA, you had to have your car inspected by a state approved
garage twice a year. Now I think it is once a year plus emissions.

There were a few different types of stations:
A) Give me your $6 and I'll put the sticker on as long as no one is
watching.

B) Your car is almost OK, but you need some minor repair that I can make a
quick buck on. (I took three cars to one station the same day and all
three
needed headlight adjustment for $5. Six months later they all needed
wiper
blades) In reality, all three needed more expensive work but as a
teenager,
this was a good resolution.

C) Wow, good thing you came in. You need new ball joints, or steering
rods,
or some front end part that you'll never check to see what I did.

Maybe one station in 10 was completely honest.

Yep. That's the way it used to be in Georgia. Now emissions checks are the
norm in the metro areas and they are closely watched by the state. No
cheating now, or so they say.

wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
This was posted on another newsgroup, but since many of us here use these
(loosely to home repair) related services, I though many would be
interested.

From a recent Los Angeles TV station news segment:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html

There is a book, "What auto mechanics don't want you to know" by Mark
Eskeldson, that I read recently. In it, they outlined all of the scams
from major chains for oil changes, transmission, mufflers, etc. Midas
and Sears were specifically mentioned and many of the lawsuits were
from California, where this report was from and it was the same
line...they get away with it, so it's not worth performing the work.
One chain in the book was honored with "having lawsuits in 14 states
simultaneously," which the author found rather "difficult to
accomplish." An example suit was the "$59.99 brake job" that you used
to see everywhere and they found that less than 5% of the cars
qualified because the terms excluded semi-metallic pads which is was
almost every car was using at the time of the investigation. The
"average" brake job at these supposed convenience brake specialists ran
$160-$200.

Anyway, the book also outlines how to find a good mechanic, what you
should expect (maybe a higher hourly rate, but much better services,
etc.). It's a bit dated and the Internet has certainly opened
communication to the benefit of the consumer, but well worth the read.

He also wrote "what your car dealer doesn't want you to know," which
was quite informative as well.

For many things (brakes/rotors for example), I took a basic repair
class at a local tech school (at night) and not only learned
information (i.e., how low can a pad go before it really needs to be
replaced), but I had access to a lift, tire machine and tools that I
could never afford myself for 12 weeks. By simply replacing my pads
and rotors, I made back the tuition compared to what the job was quoted
for at the place I used to go to.

I also found, through the instructor's network, a place that has proven
to be very reliable and honest...we've been there a few times for
things that we can't do at home and parts are priced within what we
could purchase them for online and the labor rate is very competitive.


Of course most brake jobs don't require turning
the rotors or the drums, especially if the car has
been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.

snip

Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.

Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message

Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.

Used to be. Most rotors are made too light now and warp easily. I've never
scored them, never abused them, but just put my second set of rotors on a
LeSabre with 115k miles. Warped just from heat and normal braking. Light
to save gas mileage and to hell with the owner at 50,000 miles. Never had
that with drums though.

My van carries lots of weight turn rotors equal WARPED rotors within
months

So new pads means new rotors most of time

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:04:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"jerryl" quickly quoth:

snip

Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.

Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.

Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
'em. Who cares if it's less safe?


--
I am beginning to learn that it is the sweet, simple things of life
which are the real ones after all. --Laura Ingalls Wilder (1867-1957)

Larry Jaques wrote:

Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
'em. Who cares if it's less safe?


I do not doubt that some times, one does need to replace brake pads and
rotors. But what I found in my class is that I can buy the pads and
rotors and change them within an hour's time for about $200 less than
what I was quoted. Actually, in my case, the cost to resurface a rotor
costs more in labor (aside from the part cost) than to just buy a new
one every couple of years.

I believe there are good mechanics out there, but the concern that
people are being ripped off is not unfounded.

jerryl wrote:
snip
Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.

Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.


Yeah, heat distorts rotors and drums, temporarily
unless you don't use them reasonably.
You in the rotor turning business?
If your brakes worked fine before your pads wore
down to the point of needing replacement, they
will work fine with new pads and no rotor turning.

Or maybe you think something magical happens and
makes the rotor suddenly warp when the car goes up
on the lift? Of course you can ruin new brakes in
50 miles, but then they won't be working correctly
will they?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"cm" wrote in message
...

Thanks Edwin! Very entertaining. I often wonder why I work so hard and
stand behind my work. I could make so much more money if I were a lying
piece of crap.

AZCRAIG

:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html


Yeah, but you can sleep well.

It is hard to find a really good mechanic. They don't come cheap, but are
worth every penny. I used one recently that was 100% honest, but just not
competent. Found another that is both.


Hmmm,
I do most of work myself. No one to blame but myself, LOL!
Any how I don't keep any car/truck TOO long to be a mechanical
burden.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:04:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"jerryl" quickly quoth:

snip
Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.
Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.

Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
'em. Who cares if it's less safe?



Yeah, I probably should not have used "most"
because "most" drivers are idiots and cause all
sorts of maintenance problems.

None the less, there are significant number of
pad replacements needed due to pad wear when the
brakes exhibit no pulsating pedal or need hard
pressure to stop. I think I've had only one
car/truck where I had a pulsating pedal and most
of my cars were purchased with over 50,000 miles
and needed one or more brake jobs before I got rid
of them.

Shops like to resurface rotors and often the scam
is "the rotors are too thin to be turned, or your
rotors are warped, so you need new rotors."

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
jerryl wrote:
snip
Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.

Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.
Yeah, heat distorts rotors and drums, temporarily unless you don't use
them reasonably.

Or you own a GM vehicle... My Buick Regal was bad for rotors and GM even
acknowledged in a TSP.

You in the rotor turning business?
If your brakes worked fine before your pads wore down to the point of
needing replacement, they will work fine with new pads and no rotor
turning.

But just because they work OK now doesn't mean that they are working as well
as when new... or that the warping won't worsen noticably by the next pad
change.

Or maybe you think something magical happens and makes the rotor suddenly
warp when the car goes up on the lift? Of course you can ruin new brakes
in 50 miles, but then they won't be working correctly will they?

You forget about corporate greed. If GM can save 1 cent from each car
they'll gladly do it, even if it ends up costing the consumer hundreds of
dollars over the lifetime of the car.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:9aFug.198450$IK3.188936@pd7tw1no...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"cm" wrote in message
...

Thanks Edwin! Very entertaining. I often wonder why I work so hard and
stand behind my work. I could make so much more money if I were a lying
piece of crap.

AZCRAIG

:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html


Yeah, but you can sleep well.

It is hard to find a really good mechanic. They don't come cheap, but
are worth every penny. I used one recently that was 100% honest, but
just not competent. Found another that is both.
Hmmm,
I do most of work myself. No one to blame but myself, LOL!
Any how I don't keep any car/truck TOO long to be a mechanical
burden.

Any suggestions on removing the two 1.25" axle nuts on my '93 Mazda? Need to
replace a CV boot which means pulling the axle. Already broke my 1/2" drive
breaker bar. Blah!

I've been to Midas a couple times. They have aparently a three level
pricing schedule.

1) Low price over the telephone
2) Reasonable price at time of estimate
3) Increased price when you come back to get the vehicle

Mine was 50-150-300. One other fellow I talked to, it was more like
100-200-1000.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
ups.com...
MIDAS MUFFLER pittsburgh was ripping people like that! I once told the
story to Ron Moore president of Midas. He denied it buty I goit my
refund!

About 3 months later a investigative report at a local tv station
broke
the news.

people who i had told and apparently didnt believe me were stunned.

the best thing that could happen is jiffy lube goes belly up
nationwide.

companies wouldnt pull stuff l;ike tis if those who got caught were
put
out of business.

bridgestone firestone should of gone been put out of business as a
example.

i use my local mechanic or wall mart. cant beat 14 bucks for a oil
change, and they dont try to sell you extra car stuff, they let you
wait by shopping....

I have my own office machine repair business, I DONT pull stuff like
that since I hate it whhen people do it to me!

On 16 Jul 2006 19:24:55 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:


Larry Jaques wrote:

Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
'em. Who cares if it's less safe?


I do not doubt that some times, one does need to replace brake pads and
rotors. But what I found in my class is that I can buy the pads and
rotors and change them within an hour's time for about $200 less than
what I was quoted. Actually, in my case, the cost to resurface a rotor
costs more in labor (aside from the part cost) than to just buy a new
one every couple of years.

Buying new is a waste of money in many cases. If you're doing your own
pad replacement, grab a Chilton (or other manual) and learn how to do
the rest of the labor yourself. I've had my rotors and drums turned by
local shops for about $20 ($5 each in 2002) for decades now, since I
retired from wrenchin' with back problems.

Repack your front wheel bearings when you do that. The whole thing
takes just a couple hours + transport to and from the brake shop who
has the lathe. Schedule it and you can be in and out of their shop in
20 minutes. Machines shops also turn these, but brake shops are
better at it (and usually cheaper) since they do it every day of their
lives.


I believe there are good mechanics out there, but the concern that
people are being ripped off is not unfounded.

True.



--
Simplicity doesn't mean to live in misery and poverty. You have what you
need and you don't want what you don't need. --Charan Singh (1916-1990)

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:09:11 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
zxcvbob quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:04:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"jerryl" quickly quoth:

snip
Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
scoring.
Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.

Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
'em. Who cares if it's less safe?

If it wasn't warped (pulsing brake pedal) with the old pads, it probably
doesn't need turning. The new pads will wear the highest spots off the
ridges and the ridges will cut grooves in the new pads, and pretty soon
they will be mated perfectly. You won't have optimum braking during
this wear-in period, I think that's why the shops always wanna turn them
rather than it being a rip-off.

most folks don't realize how bad their brakes were until the new,
trued drums/rotors were installed.


Turning the drums and rotors reduces the mass and increases the chance
that they *will* warp (or fade) someday during heavy braking because
they will get hotter faster.

That's why there is a limit on how much "meat" they can shave off. It
varies with the application, but all have limits and the good shops
take off only as much as they need to for clean, trued surfaces.


--
Simplicity doesn't mean to live in misery and poverty. You have what you
need and you don't want what you don't need. --Charan Singh (1916-1990)

Larry Jaques wrote:
Buying new is a waste of money in many cases. If you're doing your own
pad replacement, grab a Chilton (or other manual) and learn how to do
the rest of the labor yourself. I've had my rotors and drums turned by
local shops for about $20 ($5 each in 2002) for decades now, since I
retired from wrenchin' with back problems.

In my case, it didn't seem to make sense to have my rotors turned. New
rotors for my "everyday" vehicle cost me ~$18each. Since I'm replacing
the pads and already have the wheel off, it's just a few more steps to
replace the rotors and I don't have to worry about paying for them to
be turned and/or when they'll warp again.

Your location may have something to do with it...I don't know any place
around here that comes close to $20 to turn them without charging
significantly more for pulling the tires and/or replacing the pads at
the same time. I found out that I could replace my front pads and
rotors for less than $60. I don't think I've ever walked out of a
garage for less than that, regardless of how minor the maintenance was.
Heck, the last time I had an inspection, they wanted $40 to replace
the air filter. I did it for less than $10 and about 2 minutes worth
of time when I realized what was involved.