I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...

"Toller" wrote in
:

I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it
out, but slightly damaged a panel.

How?
How much is "slightly damaged"??
What "panel"?
(and what kind of car?)

Were you present for the pullout?

He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive
to fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he
should have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it;
but he didn't say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son
a price and went to work.

The question is;was it foreseeable that the "slight damage" would happen?

That is adequate to show negligence and
liability in small claims court.


Jeez! I'd be expecting my son to be paying for any damage.
He's the one who put the car into the ditch.
He might learn an important lesson from the experience.
(also to accept responsibility for his actions)
How old is your son?

BTW,what does the towing bill say?
Any disclaimers on the back,fine print,etc.?
Got any *proof* that the panel was undamaged before the tower did his work?
Witnesses other then your son?
This would have been one place a cellphone camera would have been useful.


But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage)
then I don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful
advice...


See a lawyer.Then you will get good advice.

Looking for good advice for legal matters on Usenet is unwise.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Toller wrote:
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...

I don't see how anyone can tell whether the damage was avoidable or not
without having seen the car in the ditch.

What are the laws are in your state that govern the business practices
and requirements of tow truck drivers?

Towing a car out of a ditch involves risk, much like putting it in
there in the first place. If your son had hired a crane it could have
been removed without further damage (I'm assuming that there was some
damage from driving into the ditch). Does the fact that the car
sustained damage while being towed out automatically establish
negligence? I don't think so.

It's also possible that your son is willing to share some of the blame
with the tow truck driver. Other than your son, no one knows what
happened while he had the car.

R

Your insurance should cover it.
"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
Toller wrote:
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he
should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he
didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went
to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then
I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...

I don't see how anyone can tell whether the damage was avoidable or not
without having seen the car in the ditch.

What are the laws are in your state that govern the business practices
and requirements of tow truck drivers?

Towing a car out of a ditch involves risk, much like putting it in
there in the first place. If your son had hired a crane it could have
been removed without further damage (I'm assuming that there was some
damage from driving into the ditch). Does the fact that the car
sustained damage while being towed out automatically establish
negligence? I don't think so.

It's also possible that your son is willing to share some of the blame
with the tow truck driver. Other than your son, no one knows what
happened while he had the car.

R

In article ,
says...
"Toller" wrote in
:

BTW,what does the towing bill say?
Any disclaimers on the back,fine print,etc.?
Got any *proof* that the panel was undamaged before the tower did his work?
Witnesses other then your son?
This would have been one place a cellphone camera would have been useful.

Or a video camera!
http://www.pokeface.com/?show_media=...le_type=Movies

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.


So.....now you can say that letting your son drive means that damage to your
car caused by his driving is unavoidable...correct?
I mean, it was not in a ditch before he put it there.


Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he
should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went
to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

If the damage was going to happen, due to the cars location, position in the
ditch...and any company would have said, we are not going to pull you out
because you might sue us over your sons failure to be able to correctly
control a vehicle, and now, the vehicle is in a position that it can not be
recovered without some more slight damage, then the car would still be in
the ditch right?


But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.


On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...



With a good lawyer, anything is possible.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.


Thanks the tow truck driver, trade the son in for a newer model.

At first I though this was a stupid troll, but you have been here alot.
Dont you think if he could have not damaged it he would have done it
different, you wont have an easy time proving your case even if right. I
dought its worth it.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he
should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went
to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...

Your son has the dilemma: He's got an asshole for a parent.

The best thing the tow truck driver could have done was left his car in the
ditch.

It could have been July and you would have bitched about the mud on the car.

STFU and call your insurance company.....

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he
should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went
to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...



Tell your son to get a job, quit drinking, and learn how to drive without
running into a ditch. Send a thank you note to the tow truck operator for
recovering your son's car. Say a prayer thanking the Lord that your son
wasn't killed (this time).

I'll bet you are one of those whiny parents who think it is the teacher's
fault when your kid never turns in his homework and gets a "D".

Toller wrote:

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...

it's too late to cry about this now, it should have been handled on the
spot
your son should have said Wait! your fugging up my car! but he did
not...

I had a tow driver drop my car and destroy my fender, I made them pay
for it.

Why don't you call the tow company and ask them how they would like to
handle this.

they will say, it was un-avoidable...get that in writing, your ins co
might need it.

"My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it
out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix. "

How much is the damage from removing the car as compared to the damage
it already had from going into the ditch? I would think there would be
damage from it going into the ditch to begin with. If the additional
damage is only a slightly damaged panel and there was already other
damage, then it may not cost that much additional to repair. If a body
shop has to repair and spray an an adjacent area, same color, etc, then
fixing the additonal damage shouldn't cost that much more.

I don;t see how after the fact you are going to be able to determine if
the additional damage could have been avoided. Depending on state laws
and who called the tow truck, you may not have much of a case, if at
all. For example, if the police called them, you may find that they
have the right to remove a car from the road right of way by any
reasonable means. If the damage is only a couple hundred bucks, I
would just have Jr pay for it.

You don't mention if you have collision insurance, sounds like you
don't, otherwise it shouldn't be an issue. BTW, are you sure you're
getting the true story from Jr? He's not trying to weasel out of the
damage by claiming it was not from the accident, is he?

What kind of car, year and condition, what was the condition of driver,
and tires. How big a ditch. My rear tires Michelin, have 60000 miles
worth of tread on them but after 5 years are hard and slippery. All
tires oxidise and are dangerous after 5 years or so. Maybe its all your
fault , negligence of proper safe auto condition. Be thankfull he didnt
kill someone, then you would really pay. To put a car in a ditch you are
simply careless, careless of what the car will do safely. Send the tow
truck driver a Christmas card for thanks.

"CBHVAC" wrote in
:




With a good lawyer, anything is possible.



Yeah,OJ,Michael Jackson,and Robert Blake got off.
(no wisecracks about MJ getting off! 8-) )

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

The car was a 2001 Golf in perfect condition.
There was no damage from going in the ditch.
The damage was a slightly bent panel behind the driver's front wheel, and
damage to the paint there. My insurance would go up way too much to file a
claim on it.
There is a responsible witness to the operators pointing out the damage he
had done.
Legally, the liability is clear; that is not the issue.

Several people have implied that I am a lousy father for letting my son
avoid his responsibilty; but that is largely the issue. If the tow truck
operator is responsible, then my son is not (and visa-versa). I want to
hold the right party responsibilty. Eventhough I could recover from the tow
truck company, I don't want to do it if it is wrong.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

The car was a 2001 Golf in perfect condition.

No such thing.
Perfect condition went out the window when you left the lot....

Besides, it might have been perfect in your eyes, but when it hit the
ditch..all bets went off.


There was no damage from going in the ditch.


Sure there was..perhaps not cosmetic..


The damage was a slightly bent panel behind the driver's front wheel, and
damage to the paint there. My insurance would go up way too much to file
a claim on it.


Then pay for the new fender out of pocket...or better yet...see below.


There is a responsible witness to the operators pointing out the damage he
had done.

Hope they were not the passenger in the car with your son.


Legally, the liability is clear; that is not the issue.

Umm...sure is. Id be looking at your son and askin where your money was.


Several people have implied that I am a lousy father for letting my son
avoid his responsibilty; but that is largely the issue. If the tow truck
operator is responsible, then my son is not (and visa-versa). I want to
hold the right party responsibilty. Eventhough I could recover from the
tow truck company, I don't want to do it if it is wrong.


Then you need to be looking at your son....he put the car in the ditch, he
was in control, its his responsibility when he took the keys from you.
If it had not been placed in a ditch, you would not have this issue to deal
with.
If you were serious about this, you would stop trying to find the "out" to
go blame the towing company, and look at it logically...and responsibly.
Your son, for whatever reason, failed to control the vehicle. The vehicle
went into a ditch. In order to extract vehicle from ditch, it was damaged.
You were not there, so...remember, there are three sides to any
story...Yours, theirs and the truth.
Looking from the outside, I would suggest that you make your son pay for the
fender, AND the driving classes he should be in.
You then teach your son, responsibility for his actions, in this case,
failing to keep it on the road, and you teach him how to drive and stay
between those white lines.

Sorry...Im sure you dont like the sound of that, but its what I would do. My
son in law cant drive worth a damn. Hes not my son, but when he wrecked his
last car, he asked me to buy him another one. I can afford it, and he knew
it. I would have, but the boy was handed everything to him from his father
in CA. I offered a loan to him to get a new one, or a good used one, and of
course, that wasnt good enough. Tough. After walking for a few weeks, he
finally got the hint, and started to save for one. My job isnt to bail him
out when he screws up...yours as a parent IMO isnt to teach your son how to
screw up and get away with it. Too many kids out there now like
that....Oh..dont worry, Daddy will fix it, or, the one I like....You dont
know who my Daddy is...who really gives a damn kid? Suck it up, and deal
with it. If you cant afford a slight increase in your insurance for a couple
of years, perhaps the car should just get sold off and he walk.
Wait....hes not paying the additional insurance for him being allowed to
drive your vehicle? Has he NO responsibility? What does he do all day? sit
around, play Xbox, smoke dope behind your back and steal from your liquer
cabinet?

He might be a good kid...you came into Usenet asking for free advice and you
got it. Seems the majority would suck it up and teach him something about
responsibility.

Perfect condition, sure, were tires 01, car made in 00, and if so they
were junkyard crap, oxidised hard, slick with little stick . Even 02
tires are poor by age alone and severly less safe. And of course you
tested or had the brakes tested and there were no locking wheels, I mean
this WAS done on ice or snow.
Consider your self lucky it wasnt worse and enjoy life, the tow truck
operator didnt want to damage that "perfect" 5-6 yr old. Go buy some new
tires.

Obviously the tow truck driver was a HACK! You should have called a
PRO!




--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Toller wrote:
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...


Hi,
When car is towed most often it happens. I never heard tow opersator
footing repair bill. Your insurance maybe? Probably when asked to tow
your car out of ditch, the request itself accepts possible unwillful
damage.
Tony

The part I'm having trouble with is that there was no damage from going
into the ditch, but there was damage in removing it from the ditch. I
can see two likely scenarios:

1 - Car goes into ditch big time, sustains damage and is in the ditch
in such a way that hooking on to it for removal with a conventional tow
would cause some slight additional damage.

2- Car just barely goes into ditch, with no damage, in which case I
would think it should be able to be removed without damage.


As Toller pointed out, the tow operator should have told his son
upfront that he could not remove it without damaging it, in which case
he could have pursued other options. If he simply removed it and
damaged it in the process, then I would pursue a claim against the tow
company. Worst case, you could take them to small claims court. Since
you have a witness, you should be in a pretty good position.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 05:12:32 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

No, it's not.

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
Yes, you do.

(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

Eat the loss. Beat the son.
If both the son and the car are still in working condition,
count your blessings.

Toller wrote:
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to fix.

Legally his position is untenable. If the damage was unavoidable he should
have advised my son first and gotten authorization to do it; but he didn't
say a word about possible damage, he simply gave my son a price and went to
work. That is adequate to show negligence and liability in small claims
court.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable
(except perhaps by means that would have cost more than the damage) then I
don't want to hassle him.

On the other hand, if the tow truck operator screwed up and carelessly
damaged my car, I don't want to be chump and absorb the loss.

You see the dilemma? Any advice here? No, no, I mean helpful advice...



Sometimes you just have to sigh, take your lumps and get on with life.
I'd be fairly certain that the tow truck operator didn't deliberately
try and damage that panel.

Similar thing happened to my daughter when her car's electrical system
suddenly was "dead"; no lights, cranking or anything. She called AAA and
the guy who came was either too stupid to find the obvious (a dirty
battery cable connector.) or more likely wanted the extra income for a
tow job, so he told daughter there was no hope of getting it going on
the spot and towed her car 20 miles to the mechanic we've used for years
and trust.

He cleaned the battery cable in a jiffy, and the engine started right
up, but then he discovered a hole ground through the front edge of the
car's transmission pan through which all the fluid had vamoosed. The guy
had towed the car by lifting the rear end and either got it too high or
went over some lousy pavement.

Fortunately our mechanic is the kind of guy who'd rather braze up the
hole himself rather than stick us for a new transmission pan, so the
whole bill from him was about ninety bucks, including a new gasket,
filter and fluid.

I considered us lucky to get out of it for that little. Hell, you can
hardly get a good dinner and a couple of glasses of wine for that here
in Red Sox countrey these days.

Happy Holidays,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:35:49 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

The car was a 2001 Golf in perfect condition.
There was no damage from going in the ditch.
The damage was a slightly bent panel behind the driver's front wheel, and
damage to the paint there. My insurance would go up way too much to file a
claim on it.
There is a responsible witness to the operators pointing out the damage he
had done.
Legally, the liability is clear; that is not the issue.

Several people have implied that I am a lousy father for letting my son
avoid his responsibilty; but that is largely the issue. If the tow truck
operator is responsible, then my son is not (and visa-versa). I want to
hold the right party responsibilty. Eventhough I could recover from the tow
truck company, I don't want to do it if it is wrong.


The two are severable. Your son *IS* responsible.
Ideally, it would be a point of pride in him to repair any
damage to the car while it was in his care, even if he *DIDN'T*
do anything wrong, but that's a little much to expect in today's
world.
The tow-truck driver may also be responsible. (Although, if he is,
it's to the son, not to you.) In any case, you are unlikely to
recover enough money to make going after the tow-truck company
financially rewarding. If you think they are ACTUALLY, as opposed
to possibly legally responsible, (as in, they chose to haul the car
out between two cement bollards instead of the other way) you might
want to go after them out of vindictiveness, but if you have to ask
here, you're nowhere near sure enough to make that reasonable.

writes:

The part I'm having trouble with is that there was no damage from going
into the ditch, but there was damage in removing it from the ditch.

The part you are not seeing is that the damage to the car
would have never occurred unless the car went into the ditch.

The way this was described, I don't think there was any negligence
on the part of the tow truck driver.

23. Goedjn

"Eat the loss. Beat the son.

But I don't want to be a jerk about this. If it truly was unavoidable

Yes, you do. "


I fail to see why anyone should eat the loss just because the tow truck
operator says the damage was unavoidable. If it's really small, it may
not be worth pursuing, but I sure don't see how asking about it makes
Toller a jerk. The tow operator is supposed to be a professional. He
should be able to determine up front it he can safely pull the car out.
If he thought there was risk, then he should have stated so and then
the son could have called another tow company or pursued other options.
Since he damaged it, there is a good chance he is responsible for it,
but without being there or knowing all the facts, its hard to tell.

BTW, beating the son is a bad advice too.

Toller wrote:
My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to
fix.

The car was a 2001 Golf in perfect condition.
There was no damage from going in the ditch.
The damage was a slightly bent panel behind the driver's front wheel, and
damage to the paint there. My insurance would go up way too much to file a
claim on it.
There is a responsible witness to the operators pointing out the damage he
had done.
Legally, the liability is clear; that is not the issue.

Several people have implied that I am a lousy father for letting my son
avoid his responsibilty; but that is largely the issue. If the tow truck
operator is responsible, then my son is not (and visa-versa). I want to
hold the right party responsibilty. Eventhough I could recover from the tow
truck company, I don't want to do it if it is wrong.

I think the point is your son used your car, had an accident, and it's
his responsibility to fix the situation. There is little reason for
you to get involved if your son is of legal age. Let him learn how
these things work.

The damage sounds slight, a couple or few hundred at worst. If he
wants to take the tow truck company to small claims court, let him.

It might also be time to talk about him getting a car of his own and
his own insurance. You could reimburse him for the amount of money he
would add to your policy if he was under your coverage...or not. That
would depend on how independent you want him to become, how soon and
his age.

R

In article ,
says...
I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any...

My son drove my car into a ditch. The tow truck operator winched it out,
but slightly damaged a panel. He pointed it out and said it was
unavoidable. It isn't much, but any sheet metal damage is expensive to fix.

Legally his position is untenable.

Two thoughts:

1. What did your son sign before having the work done? There's a
very good chance he explicitly acknowledged the risk of damage from
the tow and waived his right to recover against the tow operator for
anything short of willful negligence. (If so, remind your son never
to sign a contract without reading it first. Tow operators aren't
the only people whose contracts are designed to protect them from
dissatisfied customers.)

If the car was in your son's care and control, and if he acknowledged
the risk of damage and waived claims against the tow operator, your
beef is with your son, not the tow operator.


2. Were the police called? If not, you might save the most money by
paying for the repair yourself, since that keeps your son's negligent
accident off of insurance records.

(Legally, of course, you should report the accident to the insurance
company yourself, probably required by your insurance contract. But
a lot of people take care of little things themselves to avoid
raising their insurance premiums. Not exactly legal, but common.)

If you get away without the insurance company finding out about your
son's accident, remind him how extremely lucky he is to only have to
pay off the repair bill instead of paying more for insurance for the
next several years.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

wrote in
oups.com:

The part I'm having trouble with is that there was no damage from going
into the ditch,

HOW do you(or he) really know that?


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Toller wrote:

There is a responsible witness to the operators pointing out the damage he
had done.

then they should pay for it

why not get your estimates for repair
and call the tow company. Tell them you intend
that they pay for it.

that would be a first step
next you would have to take them to court

whoever messed the car up should pay for it

(it's a cheap education for the tow driver)

"chickenwing" wrote in message

whoever messed the car up should pay for it

(it's a cheap education for the tow driver)

The question is : Who messed it up?

If the tow driver was negligent, yes. If he truly could not pull it out with
no risk of damage, no, the kid should pay.

We did not see the car or how it was in the ditch. None of us can pass
judgment not having seen the circumstances. Perhaps a crane or helicopter
was needed to avoid damage. We just don't know.

chickenwing wrote:
Toller wrote:

There is a responsible witness to the operators pointing out the damage he
had done.

then they should pay for it

why not get your estimates for repair
and call the tow company. Tell them you intend
that they pay for it.

that would be a first step
next you would have to take them to court

whoever messed the car up should pay for it

(it's a cheap education for the tow driver)

This is Turtle .

You remine me of a fellow here in town who worked for the INS office
and was not real smart in what and how things work in the world. his
wife was black and he was white and did not know about operation on
black people is different than operating on white people.

His wife went in the hospital at 2:00 a.m. to remove her appendix and
everything went well and in about 5 week later he sees the doctor and
tells him that he messed up and left a bad scare on his wife by having
a bad white mark where they had cut on here. The Doctor told him that
was normal and that he need to get a doctor to remove the white mark
and the scare in another operation. The fellow end up sueing the doctor
for leaving the white mark & scare and lost because it was common
practice to do it this away and lost another way of wanting the doctor
to do elective surgery to remove the white skin also. he lost in all
about $14k in tring to get some free elective surgery and also having
to pay for the elective surgery .

this proceedure may have changed now a days with all the big hospital
with all kinds of doctor on duty but back then there was one country
doctor on duty and he was just a General prec. and did some small
operations in the bind. any thing big you was sent about 60 miles to
another hospital for anything more than this. then Elective surgery was
elective surgery.

You might better check to see what was done and what is standard
operating proceedure in the towing business in your state or County.

TURTLE

"The part you are not seeing is that the damage to the car
would have never occurred unless the car went into the ditch."

And what does that have to do with anything? I suppose if Toller
takes the car to a body shop for repair and they let it fall off the
lift while it's there, the body shop isn't responsible either, because
it never would have occurred if the car went into the ditch? How
about if the body shop sprays paint onto his seats? That wouldn't have
happened either if the car hadn't gone into the ditch. Who's right
here depends on many things, but the fact that the car was in the ditch
has nothing to with it.

writes:

"The part you are not seeing is that the damage to the car
would have never occurred unless the car went into the ditch."

And what does that have to do with anything? I suppose if Toller
takes the car to a body shop for repair and they let it fall off the
lift while it's there, the body shop isn't responsible either, because
it never would have occurred if the car went into the ditch? How
about if the body shop sprays paint onto his seats? That wouldn't have
happened either if the car hadn't gone into the ditch. Who's right
here depends on many things, but the fact that the car was in the ditch
has nothing to with it.

Whatever news reader you are using, it failed to correctly
mark the attribution.

I'm guessing that's my response.

The part you left out is that I went on to say they there didn't
appear to be any negligence reported by the original poster.

Letting a car fall off a lift or spraying the seats sounds like negligence.

Trying to pull a car out of a ditch and damaging it in the process doesn't.
At least to me.

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
Letting a car fall off a lift or spraying the seats sounds like
negligence.

Trying to pull a car out of a ditch and damaging it in the process
doesn't.
At least to me.

Exactly. I mentioned before, we don't know the real circumstances, how the
car was sitting, what is was sitting on or against. It really may have been
impossible to pull out and not do any damage. None of us was there so we do
not know.

On 25 Dec 2005 04:59:53 -0800, wrote:

"The part you are not seeing is that the damage to the car
would have never occurred unless the car went into the ditch."

And what does that have to do with anything? I suppose if Toller
takes the car to a body shop for repair and they let it fall off the
lift while it's there, the body shop isn't responsible either, because
it never would have occurred if the car went into the ditch? How
about if the body shop sprays paint onto his seats? That wouldn't have
happened either if the car hadn't gone into the ditch. Who's right
here depends on many things, but the fact that the car was in the ditch
has nothing to with it.

It also has nothing to do with how old the son is; whether he is
living with his parents or in a whorehouse; whether he was racing in a
school zone or avoiding an old lady in a wheelchair; or who is paying
for the repairs.

Fact, according to the OP, the tow truck driver acknowledged he
damaged the car and that it was unavoidable. Maybe so, with the
equipment *he* had. If he could not do the recovery without additional
damage, he should have declined the job or waited for proper
equipment. A more technical recovery probably would have cost more but
that is not our topic here.

In this state at least, once he attaches his hook, he is in "care,
custody and control" of the vehicle. And is liable for damages to it
other than illegal acts such as theft, arson or vandalism.

Most towing companies actually engage in two main businesses; recovery
and towing. Recovery is getting the vehicle in a position to tow.
Maybe pulling from a ditch or a lake or getting it off its roof. Once
it is "on the hook" and moving, it becomes cargo.