I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:07:47 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

I may wish I did not respond to this but here goes. If you are talking
like a hydralift where the air is injected into the pipe at the base
then you would need around 10lbs to lift 20', however the 10lbs will
be pushing back into the tank also.

If you have a strong tank at the base and put 10lbs on it with the
outlet at the bottom it will push the water out first.

Think I'm right at 1/2lb per ft.

My $0.02 John

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:9tY2f.15194$fE5.1355@fed1read06...
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And
they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

You just need a pump which produces over 20 feet of head. I bet one of those
drill pumps would do it slowly, although initial lubrication might be an
issue. You would need to produce a pretty strong vacuum to draw water up 20
feet. I bet an RV water pump would work well. Other possibilities - used
pumps - sprinkler, spa, pool, household water, etc. Or, Pressurise the truck
tank with your compressor, if it can take the pressure.

Bob

"UP and Adam" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:07:47 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And
they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

I may wish I did not respond to this but here goes. If you are talking
like a hydralift where the air is injected into the pipe at the base
then you would need around 10lbs to lift 20', however the 10lbs will
be pushing back into the tank also.

The air rising will lift some of the water.


If you have a strong tank at the base and put 10lbs on it with the
outlet at the bottom it will push the water out first.

Plastic barrels don't hold a lot of pressure, and the bungs leak easily.


Think I'm right at 1/2lb per ft.

Actually, .434#/ft. @ 39 degrees F. Salt Water, .443#

My $0.02 John

I think that you'll have better service if you use some kind of a
centrifigul or rotary vane pump that's designed for pumping water.

Think in terms of RV fresh water pumps, or perhaps bilge pumps. Keep the
pump as low as possible. It's a lot easier to push water than to pull it.
Perhaps even keep the pump lower than the truck tank.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:9tY2f.15194$fE5.1355@fed1read06...
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve


Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB

Spend more and you can get a bit more lift and volume but unless you are
going to be doing this frequently I don't know if it would be a big
thing to just spend the extra time watching it work and spend the money
you saved on beer.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:9tY2f.15194$fE5.1355@fed1read06...
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for
winter use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running
into the problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head
pressure. And they cost a lot. And they require special plumbing
connectors. A small compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to
lift the water in a 1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will
push the water up and rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve



Seems like the hard way to me.
I think it will cost more to do as you propose than you can buy a pump for!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=9576 but it
may be a tad short on lift.

How much are you willing to pay?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90703

Here is a stainless steel one that will work.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&catname=water

12 volt.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&catname=water

Greg

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank
on the second floor of my cabin.


http://cgi.ebay.com/3-4-HP-1-CAST-IR...c mdZViewItem

SteveB wrote:
....

I doubt if you are going to make it to the top. I suggest a real water
pump. Using air to pump from the bottom to the surface of water works, but
it does not work well above the surface of the water (a second surface does
not count)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

I see no one else mentioned it. There is such a thing as 'bubble'
lifting. Basically small diameter tubing with air inserted in the
bottom, It doesn't work by 'suction' but by the natural force of a
bubble rising in water. Each bubble pushes a slug of water up teh tube
as it rises. That should work but it would be a slow proposition.
There was quite a discussion of that plus other options over on
alt.energy.homepower recently but I don't recall the thread title.
Involved moving water 200 ft uphill. they seemed to think it would
work there.

Harry K

"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947
Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB

A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

It's not clear what kind of pump you're envisioning, a venturi pump,
or a bubble-lift, because you start talking about one, and then
end up babbling about the other. but neither one is going to
work for your intended application anyway.

Is this overhead tank pressurized?




I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

Bob wrote:
"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947

Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB


A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob



Even if it does move water very slowly, what is lost besides a few hours
of time? A pump doesn't need to be watched for it to work so OP can be
doing something else while it moves the water at its own pace. This
looked like a cheap solution for a job which probably won't be done very
often or need to be done quickly.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

It's not clear what kind of pump you're envisioning, a venturi pump,
or a bubble-lift, because you start talking about one, and then
end up babbling about the other. but neither one is going to
work for your intended application anyway.

Is this overhead tank pressurized?



Babble, babble, babble, babble, babble ........................

Thanks for your help.

wrote in message ...
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:32 -0700, "Bob"
wrote:

"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947
Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB

A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob

You have to read the whole rating. A pump is rated at "X" GPM at a
given head. This pump ad says the max suction lift is 23' It will pump
UP against the head a lot higher I imagine. They don't have the
GPM/head curve in this ad.

The ad says max lift with no mention of suction. The pump will pump a little water 23 feet up, and not much more. It is
obviously a sump pump. Sump pumps don't generally generate much pressure.

Bob

"John McGaw" wrote in message .. .
Bob wrote:
"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947

Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB


A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob



Even if it does move water very slowly, what is lost besides a few hours
of time? A pump doesn't need to be watched for it to work so OP can be
doing something else while it moves the water at its own pace. This
looked like a cheap solution for a job which probably won't be done very
often or need to be done quickly.

A pump which generated 30 feet of head will do the job much better and more efficiently. If you are going to buy a pump,
you might as well buy the right one.

Bob

"SteveB" wrote in message newsLc3f.15476$fE5.7535@fed1read06...

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

It's not clear what kind of pump you're envisioning, a venturi pump,
or a bubble-lift, because you start talking about one, and then
end up babbling about the other. but neither one is going to
work for your intended application anyway.

Is this overhead tank pressurized?



Babble, babble, babble, babble, babble ........................

Thanks for your help.

It's actually a good (unanswered) question. If you are trying to pump into a pressure tank, you will need a stronger
pump to pressurize it.

Bob

Michael Daly wrote:

....
0 *****Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft. ******
....

Pretty kewl! 22' 11-33/64" instead of 23'!

On 12-Oct-2005, "Bob" wrote:

The ad says max lift with no mention of suction.

From the ad (my emphasis):


o 1/8 HP 110 Volt motor 2.5 Amps
o Polypropylene pump housing will not rust or corrode
0 *****Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft. ******
o 1in. outlet diameter
o Pumps up to 1326 GPH/22 GPM
o Clog-preventing, vortex-style impeller
o Durable epoxy powder-coat finish and stainless steel rotor shaft
o 10ft. power cord
o Dimensions: 6in.W Bottom x 4in.W Top x 10 1/2in.H Top


The pump will pump a little water 23 feet up,

22 gallons per minute is not a "little water" - that's twice the volume
of water that is handled by a little pump that i use regularly.

It sounds like a pump that might do what the OP wants.

Mike

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

This works *under* water because the water/air mixture is lighter than
the surrounding water, and thus rises. *above* water, this won't work.

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a
line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks
up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into
the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And
they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

This works *under* water because the water/air mixture is lighter than
the surrounding water, and thus rises. *above* water, this won't work.

I'll wager a days pay against a donut hole that it will work. If you put
some air pressure on there, it will blow the water out the other end a good
distance.

In everything engineering, I take things to the nth degree. Imagine what it
would be like if you put just enough air in the line to percolate small
bubbles up the column of water. Now imagine 150psi of air.

Do you think that will move some water?

As I said, a days pay against a donut hole. I get $85 per hour, so that's
$680 betting that it will work.

The downside is that one poster stated that the quality of air will
contaminate the water with oil, and he is correct. So, I have opted for a
pump instead.

But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move a
lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot
enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water
to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there
will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to
keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360
degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know how
well it works.

Steve

Bob wrote:
wrote in message ...
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:32 -0700, "Bob"
wrote:

"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947
Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB

A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob

You have to read the whole rating. A pump is rated at "X" GPM at a
given head. This pump ad says the max suction lift is 23' It will pump
UP against the head a lot higher I imagine. They don't have the
GPM/head curve in this ad.

The ad says max lift with no mention of suction. The pump will pump a little water 23 feet up, and not much more. It is
obviously a sump pump. Sump pumps don't generally generate much pressure.

Bob

Just a note: In a technical listing "lift" regarding pumps is ALWAYS
the suction height. Head is what it will lift to. I see the point was
clarified below. The pump under discussion is going to deliver all he
wants plus some. Probably empty his truck tank in under a minute.

Second note: Max theoretical suction for any pump is 34 ft at sea
level dropping as altitude rises. For practical purposes allowing for
tolerances, slippage, pipe friction etc. a rule of thumb is 26' unless
you are very high. The 23 ft spec is well within reason for this pump.

Harry K

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:12:58 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move a
lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot
enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water
to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there
will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to
keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360
degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know how
well it works.


How do you plan on filling the water-column in the first place?
And why don't you just use THAT method to fill the tank?

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the
water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH
water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're
going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly,
get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust
port, just not enough to matter.

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:12:58 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move
a
lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot
enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water
to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there
will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to
keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360
degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know
how
well it works.


How do you plan on filling the water-column in the first place?
And why don't you just use THAT method to fill the tank?

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the
water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH
water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're
going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly,
get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust
port, just not enough to matter.


Well, dude, it looks like you have it all figured out. Thanks a lot for
saving me a lot of time. But then, I do have a lot of time, and an
unsatisfied curiosity, so, I think I will just play around with it some
time.

IF that's okay with you, that is.

Steve

"Whether you think you can do it or not, you're right."
-Henry Ford-

wrote in message ...


The ad says max lift with no mention of suction. The pump will pump a little water 23 feet up, and not much more. It
is
obviously a sump pump. Sump pumps don't generally generate much pressure.

Bob



Bob, you didn't open the more infornmation link

"Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft."

You are dead right on that. I stand corrected.

Bob

Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high. $80.

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

Steve

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:27:46 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high. $80.

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

Steve


Just for grins, I'll make a prediction. The venturi will absolutely
work, even if the venturi is above the lower tank water level. A good
venturi design will pull it to the top tank.

The air lift (bubble effect) may work depending on the size of tubing.
I would guess 1/4" of less. Seems the air would have to be introduced
below the water level. Probably would be more efficient with
controlled timing of the bubble release.

Any timetable on project completion?

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:27:46 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high. $80.

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

Steve


Draw a picture of what you're planning to hook up where, and I'll
predict the results..

"SteveB" wrote in message news:Iyy3f.15527$fE5.6377@fed1read06...
Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high. $80.

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

You'll quickly give up on it and stick to the pump.

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:Iyy3f.15527$fE5.6377@fed1read06...
Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high.
$80.

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it
works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

You'll quickly give up on it and stick to the pump.

Bob



Oh, I know. I just think that a venturi configured right, and with
approximately 40psi input can move a lot of water fast. I may use the
principle to move water for a stream or waterfall on my property.

As with every experiment, you have an idea, then try to see if it was right
or wrong.

In metalworking, I have had MANY (repeat) MANY projects that didn't work.

That's the beauty of it. You can have an idea, sweat over it, try it, and
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The good thing is that you
aren't paying someone else by the hour to do all the ball scratching and
nosepicking. Of course, you will have SOME time in it, and some co$t$, but
if you are lucky, you don't get soaked too bad.

And then, there are the times when the thing works darn good. And then
there are times when it winds up in the "what is this" pile behind the
garage.

I once had someone tell me that welders are problem solvers. People come to
them with problems, and they reason them out and make a solution. That I
was getting paid to figure out solutions rather than weld. Hell, you can
teach a monkey to wirefeed.

I don't know how many times I have sat bolt upright in bed at 2 AM, and
said, "Eureka!" when faced with a problem. Or been on the throne when the
ray of light hit my dark side. It comes when you aren't trying to find it.

So, airlifting isn't about moving water or whether or not it will work.

It's all about attitude.

And, as a welder, I have been accused of having an attitude more than once.

Of course, nothing was ever proven in court.

Anyone can make a gate. Fix a motor mount. Make something out of metal.
It's when you figure things out and make them work that differentiates
between the mechanics and the talented. Negative or positive.

YMMV.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message news:zkD3f.15545$fE5.7549@fed1read06...

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it
works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

You'll quickly give up on it and stick to the pump.

Bob



Oh, I know. I just think that a venturi configured right, and with
approximately 40psi input can move a lot of water fast. I may use the
principle to move water for a stream or waterfall on my property.

As with every experiment, you have an idea, then try to see if it was right
or wrong.

It may work. But it will be very inefficient. The pump will use way less energy for the water it moves. Air compressors
are not very efficient devices for moving energy.

I use my air compressor with a sandblast nozzle to spray trees. It atomizes the water well. It takes about 20 minutes of
spraying to empty a bucket of water. through a 6 foot 3/8" I.D. hose.

Bob

Goedjn wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:12:58 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move a
lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot
enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water
to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there
will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to
keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360
degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know how
well it works.


How do you plan on filling the water-column in the first place?
And why don't you just use THAT method to fill the tank?

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the
water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH
water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're
going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly,
get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust
port, just not enough to matter.

Wrong. The tube starts out empty. Tube goes to bottom of tank into a
"bell" with the air inserted under it. Not a big trick.

Harry K

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the
water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH
water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're
going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly,
get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust
port, just not enough to matter.

Wrong. The tube starts out empty. Tube goes to bottom of tank into a
"bell" with the air inserted under it. Not a big trick.


Ok, when YOU use the word "venturi", what do you mean?

SteveB wrote:

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing".

You mentioned several things in your original post, seemingly
interchangable.
Airlift: http://www.quantumlynx.com/water/bac...2/v22_st5.html
Venturi: http://www.keidel.com/mech/wellpumps.htm#shallow

My prediction is that the 'airlift' method will not work, and that
the venturi method *may* move some water all the way to the top, but
will not give you a nice stream, but rather a spray of tiny droplets
(think "airbrush").

Which method do you plan on using?

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing".

You mentioned several things in your original post, seemingly
interchangable.
Airlift: http://www.quantumlynx.com/water/bac...2/v22_st5.html
Venturi: http://www.keidel.com/mech/wellpumps.htm#shallow

My prediction is that the 'airlift' method will not work, and that
the venturi method *may* move some water all the way to the top, but
will not give you a nice stream, but rather a spray of tiny droplets
(think "airbrush").

Which method do you plan on using?

Neither. As I said, one poster brought out that the water will become
contaminated with compressor oil, making it useless. So I got a pump that
will do 40' of head.

I will still play with the venturi concept and see how it works. Last
night, I had the idea of simply inserting a trocar into a garden hose to get
the desired configuration and effect. The water would be injected under
pressure with the tip pointed up.

Now, to find a trocar, or might have to make one.

STeve

Goedjn wrote:

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the
water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH
water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're
going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly,
get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust
port, just not enough to matter.

Wrong. The tube starts out empty. Tube goes to bottom of tank into a
"bell" with the air inserted under it. Not a big trick.


Ok, when YOU use the word "venturi", what do you mean?

I haven't used the word. A venturi operates on the principle of a
reduced section of pipe (in this proposed system) with an air injection
(or water) mounted so the nozzle is in, or just before, the reduced
section. A jet pump works on the same priciple, pump a bunch of water
up the pipe to draw more water into the stream. I actually built a
"mud" siphon of plumbing parts to clear siltation from a smal
irrigation pond, used water for the moving from the irrigation pump for
the motive source.

Harry K