I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:07:47 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

I may wish I did not respond to this but here goes. If you are talking
like a hydralift where the air is injected into the pipe at the base
then you would need around 10lbs to lift 20', however the 10lbs will
be pushing back into the tank also.

If you have a strong tank at the base and put 10lbs on it with the
outlet at the bottom it will push the water out first.

Think I'm right at 1/2lb per ft.

My $0.02 John

"UP and Adam" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:07:47 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And
they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

I may wish I did not respond to this but here goes. If you are talking
like a hydralift where the air is injected into the pipe at the base
then you would need around 10lbs to lift 20', however the 10lbs will
be pushing back into the tank also.

The air rising will lift some of the water.


If you have a strong tank at the base and put 10lbs on it with the
outlet at the bottom it will push the water out first.

Plastic barrels don't hold a lot of pressure, and the bungs leak easily.


Think I'm right at 1/2lb per ft.

Actually, .434#/ft. @ 39 degrees F. Salt Water, .443#

My $0.02 John

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:9tY2f.15194$fE5.1355@fed1read06...
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And
they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

You just need a pump which produces over 20 feet of head. I bet one of those
drill pumps would do it slowly, although initial lubrication might be an
issue. You would need to produce a pretty strong vacuum to draw water up 20
feet. I bet an RV water pump would work well. Other possibilities - used
pumps - sprinkler, spa, pool, household water, etc. Or, Pressurise the truck
tank with your compressor, if it can take the pressure.

Bob

I think that you'll have better service if you use some kind of a
centrifigul or rotary vane pump that's designed for pumping water.

Think in terms of RV fresh water pumps, or perhaps bilge pumps. Keep the
pump as low as possible. It's a lot easier to push water than to pull it.
Perhaps even keep the pump lower than the truck tank.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:9tY2f.15194$fE5.1355@fed1read06...
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve


Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB

Spend more and you can get a bit more lift and volume but unless you are
going to be doing this frequently I don't know if it would be a big
thing to just spend the extra time watching it work and spend the money
you saved on beer.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947
Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB

A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob

Bob wrote:
"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947

Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB


A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob



Even if it does move water very slowly, what is lost besides a few hours
of time? A pump doesn't need to be watched for it to work so OP can be
doing something else while it moves the water at its own pace. This
looked like a cheap solution for a job which probably won't be done very
often or need to be done quickly.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

"John McGaw" wrote in message .. .
Bob wrote:
"John McGaw" wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947

Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance
should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For
$40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft
lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB


A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.

Bob



Even if it does move water very slowly, what is lost besides a few hours
of time? A pump doesn't need to be watched for it to work so OP can be
doing something else while it moves the water at its own pace. This
looked like a cheap solution for a job which probably won't be done very
often or need to be done quickly.

A pump which generated 30 feet of head will do the job much better and more efficiently. If you are going to buy a pump,
you might as well buy the right one.

Bob

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:9tY2f.15194$fE5.1355@fed1read06...
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for
winter use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running
into the problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head
pressure. And they cost a lot. And they require special plumbing
connectors. A small compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to
lift the water in a 1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will
push the water up and rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve



Seems like the hard way to me.
I think it will cost more to do as you propose than you can buy a pump for!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=9576 but it
may be a tad short on lift.

How much are you willing to pay?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90703

Here is a stainless steel one that will work.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&catname=water

12 volt.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&catname=water

Greg

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank
on the second floor of my cabin.


http://cgi.ebay.com/3-4-HP-1-CAST-IR...c mdZViewItem

SteveB wrote:
....

I doubt if you are going to make it to the top. I suggest a real water
pump. Using air to pump from the bottom to the surface of water works, but
it does not work well above the surface of the water (a second surface does
not count)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

I see no one else mentioned it. There is such a thing as 'bubble'
lifting. Basically small diameter tubing with air inserted in the
bottom, It doesn't work by 'suction' but by the natural force of a
bubble rising in water. Each bubble pushes a slug of water up teh tube
as it rises. That should work but it would be a slow proposition.
There was quite a discussion of that plus other options over on
alt.energy.homepower recently but I don't recall the thread title.
Involved moving water 200 ft uphill. they seemed to think it would
work there.

Harry K

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

It's not clear what kind of pump you're envisioning, a venturi pump,
or a bubble-lift, because you start talking about one, and then
end up babbling about the other. but neither one is going to
work for your intended application anyway.

Is this overhead tank pressurized?




I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction
devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because
they just use air or water.

Steve

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

It's not clear what kind of pump you're envisioning, a venturi pump,
or a bubble-lift, because you start talking about one, and then
end up babbling about the other. but neither one is going to
work for your intended application anyway.

Is this overhead tank pressurized?



Babble, babble, babble, babble, babble ........................

Thanks for your help.

"SteveB" wrote in message newsLc3f.15476$fE5.7535@fed1read06...

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

It's not clear what kind of pump you're envisioning, a venturi pump,
or a bubble-lift, because you start talking about one, and then
end up babbling about the other. but neither one is going to
work for your intended application anyway.

Is this overhead tank pressurized?



Babble, babble, babble, babble, babble ........................

Thanks for your help.

It's actually a good (unanswered) question. If you are trying to pump into a pressure tank, you will need a stronger
pump to pressurize it.

Bob

SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

This works *under* water because the water/air mixture is lighter than
the surrounding water, and thus rises. *above* water, this won't work.

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on
the
second floor of my cabin.

I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts."
This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a
line
in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the
air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks
up
whatever is in front of the nozzle.

I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from
my
truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter
use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into
the
problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And
they
cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small
compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a
1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and
rise automatically.

This works *under* water because the water/air mixture is lighter than
the surrounding water, and thus rises. *above* water, this won't work.

I'll wager a days pay against a donut hole that it will work. If you put
some air pressure on there, it will blow the water out the other end a good
distance.

In everything engineering, I take things to the nth degree. Imagine what it
would be like if you put just enough air in the line to percolate small
bubbles up the column of water. Now imagine 150psi of air.

Do you think that will move some water?

As I said, a days pay against a donut hole. I get $85 per hour, so that's
$680 betting that it will work.

The downside is that one poster stated that the quality of air will
contaminate the water with oil, and he is correct. So, I have opted for a
pump instead.

But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move a
lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot
enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water
to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there
will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to
keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360
degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know how
well it works.

Steve

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:12:58 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move a
lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot
enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water
to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there
will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to
keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360
degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know how
well it works.


How do you plan on filling the water-column in the first place?
And why don't you just use THAT method to fill the tank?

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the
water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH
water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're
going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly,
get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust
port, just not enough to matter.

SteveB wrote:

wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
But yes, the idea will work, and it would work for a very long distance
if
the venturi is configured to pull the water into the airstream.

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd
sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing".

You mentioned several things in your original post, seemingly
interchangable.
Airlift: http://www.quantumlynx.com/water/bac...2/v22_st5.html
Venturi: http://www.keidel.com/mech/wellpumps.htm#shallow

My prediction is that the 'airlift' method will not work, and that
the venturi method *may* move some water all the way to the top, but
will not give you a nice stream, but rather a spray of tiny droplets
(think "airbrush").

Which method do you plan on using?