We have a new house that was recently built in Denver, CO (so we will
only run the A/C 2-3 mo/yr). We were looking at having a 3.0 ton 13+
SEER unit installed. We have had estimates using American Standard,
Trane, Tappan, Carrier and (soon to get quote on Rheem).

We are thinking of choosing between Carrier and Tappan as we don't need
the best due to pricing and the fact that it will not be run
constantly. Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?

"DenverHouse" wrote in message
ups.com...
We have a new house that was recently built in Denver, CO (so we will
only run the A/C 2-3 mo/yr). We were looking at having a 3.0 ton 13+
SEER unit installed. We have had estimates using American Standard,
Trane, Tappan, Carrier and (soon to get quote on Rheem).

We are thinking of choosing between Carrier and Tappan as we don't need
the best due to pricing and the fact that it will not be run
constantly. Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?


Buy the highest Seer that you can afford.

The contractor chosen should do a Manual J calculation. Not ask the sqft of
the home and then look at all the rooms. A detailed inspection of the duct
work should be done. That way the contractor will be aware of all the
situations.

A residential home builder installer, says to me bottom dollar. ( my
opinion ) Where I live the contractor that does a lot of the home new builds
has been sued for lots of dollars several times. Once even by the state. Not
a guy that I would want doing my home. I would definately check one of the
1-2 year old home owners and see what problems and suggestions they have
about the mechinical system.
I owned a 1999 built home that was done by this guy. There were 220 homes in
the HOA that I lived in. My compressor even with a blanket on the it was
almost 70 db on the patio. Some were so load that you could hear them
several homes away.

Equipment is the least of your worries. A 13+ is just that no matter what
the sheetmetal says or what color it is. I would definately recommend a
scroll compressor. Last longer, and they are quieter. The installer makes
or breaks the system.

Who ever you choose research and check on the previous installs. Best of
luck

"DenverHouse" wrote in message
ups.com...
We have a new house that was recently built in Denver, CO (so we will
only run the A/C 2-3 mo/yr). We were looking at having a 3.0 ton 13+
SEER unit installed. We have had estimates using American Standard,
Trane, Tappan, Carrier and (soon to get quote on Rheem).

We are thinking of choosing between Carrier and Tappan as we don't need
the best due to pricing and the fact that it will not be run
constantly. Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?

This is turtle.

Me i would want a Rheem , but carrier is not bad ,but i'm not sure about Tappen.

Now we just discussed brands , but I will say this. If you got a GOOD INSTALLER
.. Any brand that he/she sells is the best. 90% of a good running piece of
equipment is who installed it and not who manufactored it. Any HVAC equipment is
no better than the fellow who installed it.

TURTLE

DenverHouse wrote:

We have a new house that was recently built in Denver, CO (so we will
only run the A/C 2-3 mo/yr). We were looking at having a 3.0 ton 13+
SEER unit installed. We have had estimates using American Standard,
Trane, Tappan, Carrier and (soon to get quote on Rheem).

We are thinking of choosing between Carrier and Tappan as we don't need
the best due to pricing and the fact that it will not be run
constantly. Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?



Denver, CO: 91 dry bulb 59 wet bulb, a very dry climate.
Rather short cooling season.

Have that manual J done!
You may not need a 3 ton unit in Denver.

Amen to Turtle and SQLit.

--
Optimizing Air-Conditioner Efficiency
http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditio...ator-coil.html

stay away from Carrier. my neighbor installed a $9000+ system last year and
it hasn't worked properly since installation.

yes, the installer is mostly to blame (he is authorized Carrier dealer).
However, Carrier Corporation has provide NO help or assistance of any kind.
They will not support their products.
"DenverHouse" wrote in message
ups.com...
We have a new house that was recently built in Denver, CO (so we will
only run the A/C 2-3 mo/yr). We were looking at having a 3.0 ton 13+
SEER unit installed. We have had estimates using American Standard,
Trane, Tappan, Carrier and (soon to get quote on Rheem).

We are thinking of choosing between Carrier and Tappan as we don't need
the best due to pricing and the fact that it will not be run
constantly. Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?

"DenverHouse" wrote in message
Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?

Inspectors are not allowed to give referrals, because of liability issues
and conflict of interest (kick backs). The city/town can provide a list of
registered licensed contractors, but no verbal referrals.

"stevie" wrote in message
...
stay away from Carrier. my neighbor installed a $9000+ system last year
and
it hasn't worked properly since installation.

yes, the installer is mostly to blame (he is authorized Carrier dealer).
However, Carrier Corporation has provide NO help or assistance of any
kind.

Why is it Carriers fault?
Like the broken record we keep playing; the equipment is not the major
player in the formula.
The installer is the one that makes or breaks the job.

I am sure that Carrier will stand by their warranty. As for preformance not
their job, they sell parts not installation.

-------------------snipped----------------------------------------

"stevie" wrote
stay away from Carrier. my neighbor installed a $9000+ system last year
and
it hasn't worked properly since installation.

I'm very pleased with my 2stage variable speed installed 3 years ago.
Sounds like your neighbor got suckered by a fly-by-night.

the main feature I would look for is a Copeland scroll compressor, they are
by far the most durable & reliable

which company's label is on the outside of the unit is much less important
than the compressor manufacturer and the installer








"DenverHouse" wrote in message
ups.com...
We have a new house that was recently built in Denver, CO (so we will
only run the A/C 2-3 mo/yr). We were looking at having a 3.0 ton 13+
SEER unit installed. We have had estimates using American Standard,
Trane, Tappan, Carrier and (soon to get quote on Rheem).

We are thinking of choosing between Carrier and Tappan as we don't need
the best due to pricing and the fact that it will not be run
constantly. Both installers seem compitent although the Carrier
installer does large volumes for home builders, while the Tappan is an
indept. installer and comes recommended by our inspector. Any
suggestions?

SQLit wrote:

Like the broken record we keep playing; the equipment is
not the major player in the formula. The installer is the
one that makes or breaks the job.

How can the installer make that much of a difference when it comes to
packaged units? In four years, our Heil has needed a new evaporator
drip pan, two blower fan time delays, and a condenser fan.

TURTLE wrote:

Me i would want a Rheem , but carrier is not bad ,but i'm not sure about Tappen.

What's the difference among brands when they contain the same major
components (motors, compressor, coils)? Because I have a packaged Heil
that's now on its third indoor fan time delay board, and the first two
eventually wouldn't turn on that fan sometimes (maybe 1 in 10 to 1 in
50 times). I don't understand why something so simple would fail twice
in four years because when I saw the circuit board, it resembled an
ordinary 555 timer circuit that should be child's play to make them
reliable. This kind of circuit has been featured a lot in electronics
hobby project magazines.

We didn't buy a Rheem because the previous A/C was a 10-year-old Rheem,
and its evaporator pan rusted out, and then 1-2 years later the
evaporator developed black drips all over it.

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
ups.com...


TURTLE wrote:

Me i would want a Rheem , but carrier is not bad ,but i'm not sure about
Tappen.

What's the difference among brands when they contain the same major
components (motors, compressor, coils)? Because I have a packaged Heil
that's now on its third indoor fan time delay board, and the first two
eventually wouldn't turn on that fan sometimes (maybe 1 in 10 to 1 in
50 times). I don't understand why something so simple would fail twice
in four years because when I saw the circuit board, it resembled an
ordinary 555 timer circuit that should be child's play to make them
reliable. This kind of circuit has been featured a lot in electronics
hobby project magazines.

We didn't buy a Rheem because the previous A/C was a 10-year-old Rheem,
and its evaporator pan rusted out, and then 1-2 years later the
evaporator developed black drips all over it.

This is Turtle

Rheem had it's bad years from 1988 to 1993 and you got one I guess but good now.
You say you got a Packaged Hell unit. Carrier Bought them out and I'm still
wondering about them being good or not. The above words i speak are from working
on them and not talking about them.

Now above all said here the most important thing there is to concider is the
Installer as to making it run correctly in the future. A Good Installer will
know about these problems and just not sell that brand till the trouble stops ,
but above all install it right and not have problem that most have. if all hvac
equipment was installed exactly like it should be installed. we would not need
1/2 the hvac people in the industry to repair the units out there.

One last thing here , the time delay you spoke about could be having a problem
when too cold of discharge air because of too small or not enought of flow
through the duct system. if the air is too cold because of not enough of return
air to the building. It can form moisture on the board and eat it up. Water on
relay board is a bad mix.

TURTLE

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...


SQLit wrote:

Like the broken record we keep playing; the equipment is
not the major player in the formula. The installer is the
one that makes or breaks the job.

How can the installer make that much of a difference when it comes to
packaged units? In four years, our Heil has needed a new evaporator
drip pan, two blower fan time delays, and a condenser fan.


This is Turtle.

Evaperator Drip pan. the Installer instruction say to turn it tight but don't
use a wrench on it or you will break it.

Two Blower Time Delays. Not enogh of air flow , then air will form moisture on
the boartd and everthing else and burn them.

Condenser fan motor going out. Well You can have a problem like this and really
say hey That was a bad motor and it went out, But now do we give credit of the
motor going out to Hiel or to General Electric who made it.

TURTLE

TURTLE wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...

How can the installer make that much of a difference when it comes to
packaged units? In four years, our Heil has needed a new evaporator
drip pan, two blower fan time delays, and a condenser fan.

Evaperator Drip pan. the Installer instruction say to turn it tight
but don't use a wrench on it or you will break it.

I saw the one they took out. It was cracked at the opposite end, in a
corner. Isn't it most likely a factory fault?

Two Blower Time Delays. Not enogh of air flow , then air will form moisture on
the board and everthing else and burn them.

The blower time delay is mounted in a separate compartment, along with
som that apparently isn't exposed to the air flow and is well-sealed
against weather. And besides, aren't these boards supposed to be
weatherproofed, just in case moisture does get in?

Condenser fan motor going out. Well You can have a problem like this and really
say hey That was a bad motor and it went out, But now do we give credit of the
motor going out to Hiel or to General Electric who made it.

Again, how could the installer have made a difference?

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...


TURTLE wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...

How can the installer make that much of a difference when it comes to
packaged units? In four years, our Heil has needed a new evaporator
drip pan, two blower fan time delays, and a condenser fan.

Evaperator Drip pan. the Installer instruction say to turn it tight
but don't use a wrench on it or you will break it.

I saw the one they took out. It was cracked at the opposite end, in a
corner. Isn't it most likely a factory fault?

Two Blower Time Delays. Not enogh of air flow , then air will form moisture
on
the board and everthing else and burn them.

The blower time delay is mounted in a separate compartment, along with
som that apparently isn't exposed to the air flow and is well-sealed
against weather. And besides, aren't these boards supposed to be
weatherproofed, just in case moisture does get in?

Condenser fan motor going out. Well You can have a problem like this and
really
say hey That was a bad motor and it went out, But now do we give credit of
the
motor going out to Hiel or to General Electric who made it.

Again, how could the installer have made a difference?


This is Turtle.

The installer can do or not do certian things that can cause failures in atleast
30 different ways. Just one let the Package unit have a very high heat rise at
100ºF+ by low air flow you get the motor running in a water dripping area and at
about 32ºF air . then in cooling you get a water in the fanmotor and burn it. in
the winter you run the heat rise up to 100ºF+ and it will bust any evaperator
pan made today.

The Installer is the biggest killer of HVAC equipment than any manufactor ever
thought about doing.

TURTLE

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...


TURTLE wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...

How can the installer make that much of a difference when it comes to
packaged units? In four years, our Heil has needed a new evaporator
drip pan, two blower fan time delays, and a condenser fan.

Evaperator Drip pan. the Installer instruction say to turn it tight
but don't use a wrench on it or you will break it.

I saw the one they took out. It was cracked at the opposite end, in a
corner. Isn't it most likely a factory fault?

No
That can be due to high heat rise, in the heating mode.


Two Blower Time Delays. Not enogh of air flow , then air will form
moisture on
the board and everthing else and burn them.

The blower time delay is mounted in a separate compartment, along with
som that apparently isn't exposed to the air flow and is well-sealed
against weather. And besides, aren't these boards supposed to be
weatherproofed, just in case moisture does get in?

No, they are not weather proof.
Is your computer?


Condenser fan motor going out. Well You can have a problem like this and
really
say hey That was a bad motor and it went out, But now do we give credit
of the
motor going out to Hiel or to General Electric who made it.

Again, how could the installer have made a difference?

Undersized return, undersized supply...either one will cause premature fan
motor failure