Recently an older house in my town has come up for sale. The house was
orginally built in 1864 but was completely gutted and renovated in 2004
except for the basement and the attic/roof. The quality of the renovations
are stunning and the lot size of the house is very good. The asking price
was very good for a house in this condition so my wife and I visited and
then subsequently put in an offer on the place that was accepted.

We then went through the process of arranging a formal home inspection at
which point the inspector turned up evidence of mold in the attic. The mold
appears as small spots on the attic rafters and appears to be fairly
uniformly spread from two feet up from the attic floor to the roof. The
contamination appears to be surface only and has not penetrated deeply. In
other words, it's not a carpet but spots here and there.

The attic used to be sealed but uninsulated and as part of the renovations
the sellers added insulation and proper venting to the attic. My inspector
felt they did a great job up there and that the mold pre-dates the
renovations and that the conditions for the mold have been removed.

The mold is being inspected by a certified mold specialist tomorrow.
Assuming the specialist indicates that it is surface only, it is rectifiable
and conditions for mold growth have been removed along with a condition
added that the seller gets the mold cleaned up and certified clean, would
you buy the house or not?

Part of me is "150 year old house, there's bound to be an issue or two" and
the other part is saying "Mold is a big issue in real estate today, do I
want to take the chance it is in fact permanently cleaned since there won't
be a proven track record of mold-free conditions"?

On every other front the inspector loved the house calling it a stellar
example of renovating a century home. The seller is visibly upset that the
home inspection he had done previously didn't catch the mold otherwise he
would have corrected it when doing the renovation and have a mold-free track
record established so I don't believe there is any duplicity on his part.

Thanks,

Gerald

"Gerald Nunn" wrote in message
...
Recently an older house in my town has come up for sale. The house was
orginally built in 1864 but was completely gutted and renovated in 2004
except for the basement and the attic/roof. The quality of the renovations
are stunning and the lot size of the house is very good. The asking price
was very good for a house in this condition so my wife and I visited and
then subsequently put in an offer on the place that was accepted.


Sounds like you are taking all the right steps to me. Have the mold tested,
see if it's lethal, and then decide. Sort od _almost_ sounds like you have
decided you are going to buy this house already - so BE CAREFUL. As one who
has been burnt by issues not completely dissimilar to yours - don't let your
heart make this decision. PURE FACTS ONLY when buying a house, mate. If this
one isn't the one, you WILL find another you are just as attracted to.

As an aside, does anyone ever remeber mold being a subject when they were
growing up? People suing builders and development groups and such?

Where did all this come from? I'm not saying its not an important issue. I
understand some of this stuff can really ruin people's health.

But it just seems a lot like the radon scares back in the 80's to me.....
somebody somewhere finds something to scare everyone over, and suddenly a
cottage indistry is born to "clean it up"..... oh, and the lawyers.... yeah
yhey love it.

"Gerald Nunn" wrote in message

The attic used to be sealed but uninsulated and as part of the renovations
the sellers added insulation and proper venting to the attic. My inspector
felt they did a great job up there and that the mold pre-dates the
renovations and that the conditions for the mold have been removed.

The mold is being inspected by a certified mold specialist tomorrow.
Assuming the specialist indicates that it is surface only, it is
rectifiable
and conditions for mold growth have been removed along with a condition
added that the seller gets the mold cleaned up and certified clean, would
you buy the house or not?

Part of me is "150 year old house, there's bound to be an issue or two"
and
the other part is saying "Mold is a big issue in real estate today, do I
want to take the chance it is in fact permanently cleaned since there
won't
be a proven track record of mold-free conditions"?

If the inspector give the OK, I'd probably go ahead and buy it.

OTOH, buying a house of that age carries certain costs and obligations. You
want to maintain the historical significance of the architecture as much as
possible, and you may have some more costly repairs, but that may have
already been done for you. Tearing into an old place can be loaded with
surprises. Have fun researching the history of the house and neighborhood.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Gerald Nunn" wrote in message
...
Recently an older house in my town has come up for sale. The house was
orginally built in 1864 but was completely gutted and renovated in 2004
except for the basement and the attic/roof. The quality of the renovations
are stunning and the lot size of the house is very good. The asking price
was very good for a house in this condition so my wife and I visited and
then subsequently put in an offer on the place that was accepted.

We then went through the process of arranging a formal home inspection at
which point the inspector turned up evidence of mold in the attic. The
mold
appears as small spots on the attic rafters and appears to be fairly
uniformly spread from two feet up from the attic floor to the roof. The
contamination appears to be surface only and has not penetrated deeply. In
other words, it's not a carpet but spots here and there.

The attic used to be sealed but uninsulated and as part of the renovations
the sellers added insulation and proper venting to the attic. My inspector
felt they did a great job up there and that the mold pre-dates the
renovations and that the conditions for the mold have been removed.

The mold is being inspected by a certified mold specialist tomorrow.
Assuming the specialist indicates that it is surface only, it is
rectifiable
and conditions for mold growth have been removed along with a condition
added that the seller gets the mold cleaned up and certified clean, would
you buy the house or not?

Part of me is "150 year old house, there's bound to be an issue or two"
and
the other part is saying "Mold is a big issue in real estate today, do I
want to take the chance it is in fact permanently cleaned since there
won't
be a proven track record of mold-free conditions"?

On every other front the inspector loved the house calling it a stellar
example of renovating a century home. The seller is visibly upset that the
home inspection he had done previously didn't catch the mold otherwise he
would have corrected it when doing the renovation and have a mold-free
track
record established so I don't believe there is any duplicity on his part.

Thanks,

Gerald



Speaking only as a person who has endured all the " crises " that have
afflicted the home buying selling process over a 30 year period, mold of
which is the latest, if you get a "added that the seller gets the mold
cleaned up and certified clean, " buy the darned house.

You will most likely be fine if you buy it with less than the above but I
always try to answer the question asked. They is always a current thing that
is the "death of a purchase". Mold is the current one.



Colbyt

Nobody has talked about the character of the mold. Doesn't
sound like the mold around a steady leak, that sort of thing.
But better to be safe, because a house with toxic mold is
better off in the dump.

"Colbyt" wrote in message
...

"Gerald Nunn" wrote in message
...
Recently an older house in my town has come up for sale. The house was
orginally built in 1864 but was completely gutted and renovated in 2004
except for the basement and the attic/roof. The quality of the
renovations
are stunning and the lot size of the house is very good. The asking
price
was very good for a house in this condition so my wife and I visited and
then subsequently put in an offer on the place that was accepted.

We then went through the process of arranging a formal home inspection
at
which point the inspector turned up evidence of mold in the attic. The
mold
appears as small spots on the attic rafters and appears to be fairly
uniformly spread from two feet up from the attic floor to the roof. The
contamination appears to be surface only and has not penetrated deeply.
In
other words, it's not a carpet but spots here and there.

The attic used to be sealed but uninsulated and as part of the
renovations
the sellers added insulation and proper venting to the attic. My
inspector
felt they did a great job up there and that the mold pre-dates the
renovations and that the conditions for the mold have been removed.

The mold is being inspected by a certified mold specialist tomorrow.
Assuming the specialist indicates that it is surface only, it is
rectifiable
and conditions for mold growth have been removed along with a condition
added that the seller gets the mold cleaned up and certified clean,
would
you buy the house or not?

Part of me is "150 year old house, there's bound to be an issue or two"
and
the other part is saying "Mold is a big issue in real estate today, do I
want to take the chance it is in fact permanently cleaned since there
won't
be a proven track record of mold-free conditions"?

On every other front the inspector loved the house calling it a stellar
example of renovating a century home. The seller is visibly upset that
the
home inspection he had done previously didn't catch the mold otherwise
he
would have corrected it when doing the renovation and have a mold-free
track
record established so I don't believe there is any duplicity on his
part.

Thanks,

Gerald



Speaking only as a person who has endured all the " crises " that have
afflicted the home buying selling process over a 30 year period, mold of
which is the latest, if you get a "added that the seller gets the mold
cleaned up and certified clean, " buy the darned house.

You will most likely be fine if you buy it with less than the above but I
always try to answer the question asked. They is always a current thing
that
is the "death of a purchase". Mold is the current one.



Colbyt

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
.. .
Nobody has talked about the character of the mold. Doesn't
sound like the mold around a steady leak, that sort of thing.
But better to be safe, because a house with toxic mold is
better off in the dump.

Ands some mold can be quite tasty, if properly prepared.

"Matt Morgan" wrote in message
m...
Sounds like you are taking all the right steps to me. Have the mold
tested,
see if it's lethal, and then decide. Sort od _almost_ sounds like you have
decided you are going to buy this house already - so BE CAREFUL. As one
who
has been burnt by issues not completely dissimilar to yours - don't let
your
heart make this decision. PURE FACTS ONLY when buying a house, mate. If
this
one isn't the one, you WILL find another you are just as attracted to.

Unfortunately testing is not really an option due to the length of time it
takes to test. The seller just wants to clean it up and proceed as per the
CDC:

"Generally, it is not necessary to identify the species of mold growing in a
residence, and CDC does not recommend routine sampling for molds. Current
evidence indicates that allergies are the type of diseases most often
associated with molds. Since the reaction of individuals can vary greatly
either because of the person's susceptibility or type and amount of mold
present, sampling and culturing are not reliable in determining your health
risk. If you are susceptible to mold and mold is seen or smelled, there is a
potential health risk; therefore, no matter what type of mold is present,
you should arrange for its removal. Furthermore, reliable sampling for mold
can be expensive, and standards for judging what is and what is not an
acceptable or tolerable quantity of mold have not been established."

But it just seems a lot like the radon scares back in the 80's to me.....
somebody somewhere finds something to scare everyone over, and suddenly a
cottage indistry is born to "clean it up"..... oh, and the lawyers....
yeah
yhey love it.

Personally I agree that it is overhyped, unfortunately it is a factor for
resale so for just that reason alone it needs to be seriously considered. I
have no personal experience with mold issues myself since I've always owned
newer homes previously, hence the reason for my posting here.

Gerald

Under venting can cause condensation and roof leaks cause conditons for
mold. Leaks have happened in the houses history it is normal so can old
mold be normal. A moisture meter can pinpoint wetness, and leaks
present. Condensation occurs on a cold sunny day or water after a rain
can be found with a moisture meter. If vents were added it should be an
old issue which simply spraying bleach will fix. But of course now you
will have the fearfull recomending testing and special overpriced
removal services. If you can determine it isn`t growing then don`t
worry, mold is everywere, everytime you come home its on your shoes.
Bleach does wonders and only 89c a gallon.

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
.. .
Nobody has talked about the character of the mold. Doesn't
sound like the mold around a steady leak, that sort of thing.
But better to be safe, because a house with toxic mold is
better off in the dump.

As I mentioned the mold is spotty in nature, it is distributed throughout
the attic from a region starting from two feet from the floor to the
ceiling. The spots themselves are small, the largest being no larger then my
thumb. The attic was previously sealed and uninsulated with no ventilation,
my thinking is the mold came from condensation from the house below rising
to the roof in colder weather. This would explain why the roof planks near
the floor are largely unaffected since in this area the air probably was
warm enough not to cause condensation.

Gerald

"Gerald Nunn" wrote in message
...

"Matt Morgan" wrote in message
m...


Roger that, thanks for the info - I wasnt aware of the time issues.

"Gerald Nunn" wrote in message
...

As I mentioned the mold is spotty in nature, it is distributed throughout
the attic from a region starting from two feet from the floor to the
ceiling. The spots themselves are small, the largest being no larger then
my
thumb. The attic was previously sealed and uninsulated with no
ventilation,
my thinking is the mold came from condensation from the house below rising
to the roof in colder weather. This would explain why the roof planks near
the floor are largely unaffected since in this area the air probably was
warm enough not to cause condensation.

Sounds about right. Proper venting should prevent a reoccurance.
I'd probably go with the inspector's opinions on it.

The shady side of my house has had something similar. Random
spots of mold (centered on rough spots in the siding - probably
where spores could hang on). I just washed it with Clorox house
cleaner and, since I wanted to repaint it anyway, gave the porch (the
worst offender) a coat of Kilz 2 before painting on the color. Mold
hasn't come back there. (It did return after two years in another
area - I'm planning on painting the whole house this year and I'll give
that area the Kilz treatment too.)

I grew up in Central Florida where mold was the least offensive
wildlife that invaded houses. You haven't lived until you've been
trapped in a room with a dozen panicked palmetto bugs. (They
don't fly well, but they sure try.) -Wm

In article ,
says...


As an aside, does anyone ever remeber mold being a subject when they were
growing up? People suing builders and development groups and such?

No, it's a very recent development for several reasons.

Older homes had a lot less mold -- they were too drafty to
provide a good environment for mold, things usually dried out too
quickly.

Also, because homes were drafty, indoor air quality was often
better than it is today in general. After making houses tighter
and tighter in the 70s-80s-90s, we're now mandating minimum air
exchange to bring back the fresh air that used to come from
drafts.

And, of course, fear-mongering by those who stand to profit from
mold remediation has brought a very minor risk to national
attention, while also frightening insurance underwriters enough
to produce a raft of exclusions and horror stories of people
unable to get insurance.

Glad I live in a hundred-year-old house that always dried out
when it got wet!

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html

m Ransley.

The recommended method for cleaning mold now is detergent mixed with
water. Bleach is no longer recommended. The people I know cleaning
mold are usein Dawn dishwashing detergent from a bottle mixed with
water, just like hand washing dishes. Use a scrub brush to work it
into rough surfaces. Wipe with a wet cloth and allow to dry. There is
a lot of controversy over biocides. Most of those FOR using biocides
have a monetary interest in biocides. Bleach usually won't hurt, but
has fallen out of favor.

Stretch

Gerald Nunn wrote:
...

The mold is being inspected by a certified mold specialist tomorrow.
Assuming the specialist indicates that it is surface only, it is
rectifiable and conditions for mold growth have been removed along
with a condition added that the seller gets the mold cleaned up and
certified clean, would you buy the house or not?
...


I would not worry at all unless the mold tested out to be one of the
very few and relatively rare types that often cause health issues.

If you look, you should find mold in almost every home in the world. It
is all over the place. Almost all of it is either beneficial or benign.

It looks like you are going about this properly and you hare looking at
a great home. Good luck.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit

Stretch, I don`t know where you got the info on bleach falling out of
favor . So please post a link of proof, I dought that you can.

Bleach is the cheapest, most simple to use product that actualy kills
spores rendering them harmless without any time wasting contact or
effort. You simply spray it on, then mold dies in minutes from oxygen
removal and cannot dust off releasing spores. Washing with soap is
optional if you want it clean, but who cares in an unused attic as it
dissapears visualy with bleach and is left dead, not afecting anything.
Bleach also stops wood rot, soap does nothing but clean and leave mold
spores alive and well for proper conditions to again allow it to grow.
Who ever gave you that info lacks hands on practical experiance and
common sence.

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:53:56 -0500, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Stretch, I don`t know where you got the info on bleach falling out of
favor . So please post a link of proof, I dought that you can.

Bleach is the cheapest, most simple to use product that actualy kills
spores rendering them harmless without any time wasting contact or
effort. You simply spray it on, then mold dies in minutes from oxygen
removal and cannot dust off releasing spores. Washing with soap is
optional if you want it clean, but who cares in an unused attic as it
dissapears visualy with bleach and is left dead, not afecting anything.
Bleach also stops wood rot, soap does nothing but clean and leave mold
spores alive and well for proper conditions to again allow it to grow.
Who ever gave you that info lacks hands on practical experiance and
common sence.

In my humid Houston neighborhood, bleach is still king. Detergent
used alone without bleach would result in malpractice and misfeasance
claims galore.

Commercial bleach products are best however, and still very
reasonable in price, and they can last a lot longer..

agreed, buy the house if all esle is good

mold will tend to grow on the inside of a roof that faces north and
does not get sun in the winter

the south facing side gets the sun and dries out and all the moisture
condenses on the north facing side

with the added attic vents, it might not re-occur

just check it every year and apply bleach as required or add more
ventillation

i suggest a vent on two sides so that you get air flow due to the
prevailing wind

Mark

I would not hesitate to buy the house, especially if you're going to
ventilate the attic. Sounds like a great old house -- congrats.

m Ransley,

I just went to a class on mold remediation a couple of weeks ago. The
bleach thing was a question that I asked. The instructor recommended
against using it, because people sensitised to mold don't need any
other chemicals in the air among other things. The instructor had a
lot of letters after his name, he was a Certified Indoor
Environmentalist, among other things. The web site for his company is
www.ptainc.com. I usually don't just blow smoke, I have some basis for
what I say. I am passing on information here that I just got a couple
of weeks ago. In fact he will be sending me more information through
our association shortly. Our association is the South Carolina
Association of Heating and Air Conditioning Contractors (SCAHACC) and
they sponsored the class.


Stretch

I will stay with bleach regardles, sure it is a bad chemical but with
air movement through it doesnt last, mold spores do. once you kill it
thats it if you fix what caused it.

"stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
m Ransley,

I just went to a class on mold remediation a couple of weeks ago. The
bleach thing was a question that I asked. The instructor recommended
against using it, because people sensitised to mold don't need any
other chemicals in the air among other things. The instructor had a
lot of letters after his name, he was a Certified Indoor
Environmentalist, among other things. The web site for his company is
www.ptainc.com. I usually don't just blow smoke, I have some basis for
what I say. I am passing on information here that I just got a couple
of weeks ago. In fact he will be sending me more information through
our association shortly. Our association is the South Carolina
Association of Heating and Air Conditioning Contractors (SCAHACC) and
they sponsored the class.


Stretch


AH!
You've included the magic words:
HIS Company

Of course, he's going to find reasons why do-it-yourself remedies won't
work.

I don't care how many letters he has after his name.
He has a vested interest and is hardly a neutral authority.

As another poster mentioned, bleach doesn't stay in the air long enough to
cause anyone long term allergies.
Heck, if it did, we better damn well stop using it in schools, offices,
hospitals and homes everywhere


Doug

Gerald Nunn wrote:

Recently an older house in my town has come up for sale. The house was
orginally built in 1864 but was completely gutted and renovated in 2004
except for the basement and the attic/roof. The quality of the renovations
are stunning and the lot size of the house is very good. The asking price
was very good for a house in this condition so my wife and I visited and
then subsequently put in an offer on the place that was accepted.

We then went through the process of arranging a formal home inspection at
which point the inspector turned up evidence of mold in the attic. The mold
appears as small spots on the attic rafters and appears to be fairly
uniformly spread from two feet up from the attic floor to the roof. The
contamination appears to be surface only and has not penetrated deeply. In
other words, it's not a carpet but spots here and there.
snip
The whole area of "mold" as being something to worry about has been
created by the legal profession which really needs something new to sue
for. They are using scare tactics and are trying to get legislation
passed against a situation which is completely natural. And of course
there a whole service industry has appeared to service the perceived
need to "de-mold" a house and it's not a cheap operation.

You can never get rid of all mold. It is in the air, on the walls, all
around the cleanest of houses. To worry about it makes as much sense
as worrying about "dirt".

You might get your family tested to see if anybody is abnormally
sensitive to molds. Many persons, swayed by current hype, _think_ they
are. Scientific tests will tell the truth.

As for "Certified" personnel, ask, "Certified by whom?". Check with
your state Division of Registration. This office licenses those
professions that need it -- doctors, dentists, building contractors,
embalmers, ... Outside of this, anybody can "certify" anybody else.
But it _consider the source_!

I just went to a class on mold remediation a couple of weeks ago. The
bleach thing was a question that I asked. The instructor recommended
against using it, because people sensitised to mold don't need any
other chemicals in the air among other things. The instructor had a


(1) Bleach is a on-time deal, mold keeps right on giving.

(2) In an uninhabitted attic, any airborne chemicals should be headed
out the vents, not into the living space, anyway.

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publicat...truction. htm

Personally, I would have the mold tested to verify that it is not one
of the toxic varities, eg stachy botris. If it's not toxic, then I'd
buy the place, otherwise, I would walk. There are plenty of other
houses one can find.

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:04:37 -0400, "Gerald Nunn"
wrote:

Recently an older house in my town has come up for sale. The house was
SNIP
Gerald



I've seen all the replies(helping to asses and clean up the problem),
and wonder somethings. If you have places where you KNOW there is
mold, what about the places you don't KNOW? I mean the walls the
floor spaces, etc...

Rumor has it, there are other houses for sale. I would move on to
them.

later,

tom == being very lazy.

"The Real Tom" tom @ www.Love-Calculators.com wrote in message
...
Rumor has it, there are other houses for sale. I would move on to
them.

If your looking for a newer standard house then yes, there is a lot of
choice. If your looking for an older house with a lot of character then the
choices become limited, hence my dilemma.

Anyways, I went ahead and bought the house after the mold was cleaned up and
the attic re-inspected. The inspector stated that it was a very minor mold
issue and that the renovations that were done should be sufficient to
prevent recurrence of it. Thanks to everyone who responded for their advice,
I appreciate it.

Gerald

Sorry,

HIS company does training only, not mold remediation. He makes no less
money if someone does it himself, (mold remediation). His company
trains people to do mold remediation and asbestos abatement acording to
industry standards and government regulations. He also trains on
Lawyer avoidance. This is not a bad thing. I went to the class
because as an A/C contractor, mold problems can affect me. We do not
do mold remediation, but I wanted to know if somebody may be blowing
smoke in my face. I do not have a ax to grind on this, I just thought
you would like to know. I figured that was why you were here. My
mistake.

Stretch

FEMA says, use bleach:
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=17111


CDC says, use bleach or soap and water, even for stachybotrys:
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/airpollution...stachy.htm#Q12


But then, CDC also says you don't usually need to bother testing
what type of mold it is, either, and they don't recommend routine
sampling for mold.
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/airpollution...stachy.htm#Q14


Of course, those are just the opinions of public health experts,
uninformed by the latest in class-action hysteria and fear
mongering. They'd probably eat apples treated with Alar, or even
drive a Corsair.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html