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#1
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Electric Problem
Hi,
I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I have no wiring diagram. I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike. And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost to the bike. Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points: IGNITION OFF 1________5 \ / \ / 2 \ / 4 \ / 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 5 connects to point 3 Point 3 connects to point 1 IGNITION ON 1_______5 2_________4 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 2 connects to point 4 I have a photo with the circuit diagrams if you want to have a clearer look: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...1/ignition.jpg I have also tested the wires and come to this conclusion: Red = +12v ( This comes from the + point of the battery Black = -12v ( This comes from the - point of the battery Black/White = ? ( This has no current at all, could be the 'KILL' point to prevent bike from starting?) Green = +12v ( Seems to provide power to the lighting system) I tested black with green and it came up with 12v and I found this green wire connects to the head lamp and so I presume this provides current for the lighting system and the red wire is to start the engine) The problem is, looking at the ON and OFF diagrams, I am not sure what's going on. I can see something is going on, but not entirely sure what. So my question is simply this, can anyone see any logical way for these wires to be connected to create a working circuit on the basis of the above diagrams? Thanks for reading and any advice on this matter Regards, Sean |
#2
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
sean wrote: Hi, I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I have no wiring diagram. I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike. And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost to the bike. Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points: IGNITION OFF 1________5 \ / \ / 2 \ / 4 \ / 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 5 connects to point 3 Point 3 connects to point 1 IGNITION ON 1_______5 2_________4 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 2 connects to point 4 I have a photo with the circuit diagrams if you want to have a clearer look: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...1/ignition.jpg I have also tested the wires and come to this conclusion: Red = +12v ( This comes from the + point of the battery Black = -12v ( This comes from the - point of the battery Black/White = ? ( This has no current at all, could be the 'KILL' point to prevent bike from starting?) Green = +12v ( Seems to provide power to the lighting system) I tested black with green and it came up with 12v and I found this green wire connects to the head lamp and so I presume this provides current for the lighting system and the red wire is to start the engine) The problem is, looking at the ON and OFF diagrams, I am not sure what's going on. I can see something is going on, but not entirely sure what. So my question is simply this, can anyone see any logical way for these wires to be connected to create a working circuit on the basis of the above diagrams? Thanks for reading and any advice on this matter Regards, Sean I'm not an electrician but I've worked on lots of vehicles including motorcycles.I can't figure it out from what you provide but I can tell you that of the wires that go to the switch,at least one will be "hot" all the time,the "hot-wire". You need to experiment and find which post that wire goes to so that other circuits are activated when switched to "on". There will be one or two for the lights,turn indicators,break light,one for ignition,and I can't think what the others would be for on such a simple vehicle. Just get the ones to the lights and ignition to get juice in the on position.I should be real easy. |
#3
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
sean wrote: I'm not an electrician but I've worked on lots of vehicles including motorcycles.I can't figure it out from what you provide but I can tell you that of the wires that go to the switch,at least one will be "hot" all the time,the "hot-wire". You need to experiment and find which post that wire goes to so that other circuits are activated when switched to "on". There will be one or two for the lights,turn indicators,break light,one for ignition,and I can't think what the others would be for on such a simple vehicle. Just get the ones to the lights and ignition to get juice in the on position.I should be real easy. Thanks for your input. My only concern with attaching any wires to the ignition points without fully understanding what would happen kinda worries me. Can I cause any big damage if I connect the wrong wire to any point on the ignition? There are a few fuses on the loom but I'm guessing I could still cause damage. Also are you saying that just one wire attached to the ignition switch will start the bike? Regards, Sean Actually it would take two; the "hot wire" and the wire to the ignition. If you just twist these two together you can start the bike. Iff all the wires are disconnected just measure from the hot wire to each post and see which ones if any are grounded.(you will get a reading). Try this in both on and off possitions. Rule out any that get a read-(you're looking for the post to attach the hot wire to).Also measure between the hot wire (from the battery) to each other wire to see if one is a ground wire but bhetter to just trace it back and look..If you found a post that was grounded,connect and ground wire to this post.I am only guessing here that there MAY be a ground wire. It should be easy.If you do it all with the meter 1st you don't have to worry about blowing a fuse (unless there is a short in the system of course)- cougar |
#4
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
On 5 Jun 2006 16:29:34 -0700, "brianorion"
wrote: sean wrote: I'm not an electrician but I've worked on lots of vehicles including motorcycles.I can't figure it out from what you provide but I can tell you that of the wires that go to the switch,at least one will be "hot" all the time,the "hot-wire". You need to experiment and find which post that wire goes to so that other circuits are activated when switched to "on". There will be one or two for the lights,turn indicators,break light,one for ignition,and I can't think what the others would be for on such a simple vehicle. Just get the ones to the lights and ignition to get juice in the on position.I should be real easy. Thanks for your input. My only concern with attaching any wires to the ignition points without fully understanding what would happen kinda worries me. Can I cause any big damage if I connect the wrong wire to any point on the ignition? There are a few fuses on the loom but I'm guessing I could still cause damage. Also are you saying that just one wire attached to the ignition switch will start the bike? Regards, Sean Actually it would take two; the "hot wire" and the wire to the ignition. If you just twist these two together you can start the bike. Iff all the wires are disconnected just measure from the hot wire to each post and see which ones if any are grounded.(you will get a reading). Try this in both on and off possitions. Rule out any that get a read-(you're looking for the post to attach the hot wire to).Also measure between the hot wire (from the battery) to each other wire to see if one is a ground wire but bhetter to just trace it back and look..If you found a post that was grounded,connect and ground wire to this post.I am only guessing here that there MAY be a ground wire. It should be easy.If you do it all with the meter 1st you don't have to worry about blowing a fuse (unless there is a short in the system of course)- cougar When you say 'grounded', what does that mean exactly? The only wire that does not show a voltage is the black/white wire. Is it possible this is the grounded wire? I am presuming the red wire is the 'hot' wire as it comes from the batteries positive terminal |
#5
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
On 2006-06-03, sean wrote:
I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I have no wiring diagram. I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike. And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost to the bike. Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points: IGNITION OFF 1________5 \ / \ / 2 \ / 4 \ / 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 5 connects to point 3 Point 3 connects to point 1 IGNITION ON 1_______5 2_________4 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 2 connects to point 4 If you have magneto ignition (a magnet in the side of the flywheel that energises the spark coil) - You'll be able to kick-start the motor with all the wires disconected terminal 3 goes to the ignition (it'll probably be a thin with with thickish insulation) 1 or 5 goes to the battery negative or chassis of the bike 2 and 4 are the battery positive and lights etc Bye. Jasen |
#6
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
If you have magneto ignition (a magnet in the side of the flywheel that energises the spark coil) - You'll be able to kick-start the motor with all the wires disconected terminal 3 goes to the ignition (it'll probably be a thin with with thickish insulation) 1 or 5 goes to the battery negative or chassis of the bike 2 and 4 are the battery positive and lights etc Bye. Jasen Thanks for this info, that's very helpful. My wiring diagram of the bike shows the word magneto next to a rectifier and CDI ignitor so I assume I must have a magneto ignition. So points 2 and 4 are both +12v? ( Red and Green show +12v when testing with the Black wire. Does it matter which +12v goes to which point? I'm guessing it doesn't as either way, the points are connected together as soon as the ignition is switched ON. Thanks again for your help. Regards, Sean |
#7
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
On 2006-06-06, sean wrote:
If you have magneto ignition (a magnet in the side of the flywheel that energises the spark coil) - You'll be able to kick-start the motor with all the wires disconected terminal 3 goes to the ignition (it'll probably be a thin with with thickish insulation) 1 or 5 goes to the battery negative or chassis of the bike 2 and 4 are the battery positive and lights etc Bye. Jasen Thanks for this info, that's very helpful. My wiring diagram of the bike shows the word magneto next to a rectifier and CDI ignitor so I assume I must have a magneto ignition. yuou have a wiring diagram? theere should be some sory of legend that identifies the colour of each wire on that diagram. there should also be numbers next to the terminals of the ignition switch these should be on the diagram too. So points 2 and 4 are both +12v? ( Red and Green show +12v when testing with the Black wire. Does it matter which +12v goes to which point? I'm guessing it doesn't as either way, the points are connected together as soon as the ignition is switched ON. your're seeing +12V on both the red and the green wires with no switch there? that seems a little odd, Thanks again for your help. I'd like to see the diagram. -- Bye. Jasen |
#8
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:23:46 -0000, Jasen Betts
CDI ignitor so I assume I must have a magneto ignition. yuou have a wiring diagram? theere should be some sory of legend that identifies the colour of each wire on that diagram. there should also be numbers next to the terminals of the ignition switch these should be on the diagram too. I did study the wiring diagram at length but couldn't identify the ignition or colors. The colors I have don't appear to tally up with anything on the diagram. I am thinking that the wires that use to come out of the ignition barrel which would have terminated on a female connector, could have been colored differently. EG The male connector which is still intact has the colors red/green/black/b/w but the female connector which runs the wires to the ignition barrel may have 2 yellows a red and a black, so the wiring diagram wouldn't have helped me if that were the case. So points 2 and 4 are both +12v? ( Red and Green show +12v when testing with the Black wire. Does it matter which +12v goes to which point? I'm guessing it doesn't as either way, the points are connected together as soon as the ignition is switched ON. your're seeing +12V on both the red and the green wires with no switch there? that seems a little odd, I'm testing both red and black then the green and black wire and they are both have +12v. Thanks again for your help. I'd like to see the diagram. I've uploaded it he http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...-200622-00.jpg You may have to save the image to your drive and view it using a suitable picture viewer as IE resizes it so small you can't read it. Regards, Sean |
#9
Posted to alt.electronics
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Electric Problem
sean wrote:
Hi, I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I have no wiring diagram. I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike. And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost to the bike. Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points: IGNITION OFF 1________5 \ / \ / 2 \ / 4 \ / 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 5 connects to point 3 Point 3 connects to point 1 IGNITION ON 1_______5 2_________4 3 Point 1 connects to point 5 Point 2 connects to point 4 I have a photo with the circuit diagrams if you want to have a clearer look: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...1/ignition.jpg I have also tested the wires and come to this conclusion: Red = +12v ( This comes from the + point of the battery Black = -12v ( This comes from the - point of the battery Black/White = ? ( This has no current at all, could be the 'KILL' point to prevent bike from starting?) Green = +12v ( Seems to provide power to the lighting system) I tested black with green and it came up with 12v and I found this green wire connects to the head lamp and so I presume this provides current for the lighting system and the red wire is to start the engine) The problem is, looking at the ON and OFF diagrams, I am not sure what's going on. I can see something is going on, but not entirely sure what. So my question is simply this, can anyone see any logical way for these wires to be connected to create a working circuit on the basis of the above diagrams? Thanks for reading and any advice on this matter Regards, Sean Sean, could I suggest that you connect the black lead of your meter to the negative terminal of your battery and leave it there. This gives us a ZERO Volts reference point. Then tell us what voltage you get at each of the five switch points, with the ignition OFF, ON and in the START position. (I'm guessing there is a start position.) Daniel -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#10
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Electric Problem
Sean, could I suggest that you connect the black lead of your meter to the negative terminal of your battery and leave it there. This gives us a ZERO Volts reference point. Then tell us what voltage you get at each of the five switch points, with the ignition OFF, ON and in the START position. (I'm guessing there is a start position.) Daniel Hi Daniel, I do not get any voltage from the ignition barrel. I am presuming it's not connected to anything. All I have are these 4 wires which do show voltage. There is just an ON, OFF but no START, just an electric push button to start the bike Regards Sean |
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