Electric Problem
 

Hi,

I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a
moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use
to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I
have no wiring diagram.

I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition
points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections
being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are
being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a
specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike.
And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost
to the bike.

Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points:

IGNITION OFF

1________5
\ /
\ /
2 \ / 4
\ /
3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 5 connects to point 3
Point 3 connects to point 1



IGNITION ON

1_______5


2_________4

3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 2 connects to point 4

I have a photo with the circuit diagrams if you want to have a clearer look:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...1/ignition.jpg


I have also tested the wires and come to this conclusion:

Red = +12v ( This comes from the + point of the battery
Black = -12v ( This comes from the - point of the battery
Black/White = ? ( This has no current at all, could be the 'KILL' point to
prevent bike from starting?)
Green = +12v ( Seems to provide power to the lighting system)

I tested black with green and it came up with 12v and I found this green wire
connects to the head lamp and so I presume this provides current for the
lighting system and the red wire is to start the engine) The problem is,
looking at the ON and OFF diagrams, I am not sure what's going on. I can see
something is going on, but not entirely sure what. So my question is simply
this, can anyone see any logical way for these wires to be connected to create a
working circuit on the basis of the above diagrams?

Thanks for reading and any advice on this matter

Regards,
Sean

Electric Problem
 

sean wrote:
Hi,

I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a
moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use
to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I
have no wiring diagram.

I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition
points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections
being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are
being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a
specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike.
And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost
to the bike.

Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points:

IGNITION OFF

1________5
\ /
\ /
2 \ / 4
\ /
3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 5 connects to point 3
Point 3 connects to point 1



IGNITION ON

1_______5


2_________4

3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 2 connects to point 4

I have a photo with the circuit diagrams if you want to have a clearer look:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...1/ignition.jpg


I have also tested the wires and come to this conclusion:

Red = +12v ( This comes from the + point of the battery
Black = -12v ( This comes from the - point of the battery
Black/White = ? ( This has no current at all, could be the 'KILL' point to
prevent bike from starting?)
Green = +12v ( Seems to provide power to the lighting system)

I tested black with green and it came up with 12v and I found this green wire
connects to the head lamp and so I presume this provides current for the
lighting system and the red wire is to start the engine) The problem is,
looking at the ON and OFF diagrams, I am not sure what's going on. I can see
something is going on, but not entirely sure what. So my question is simply
this, can anyone see any logical way for these wires to be connected to create a
working circuit on the basis of the above diagrams?

Thanks for reading and any advice on this matter

Regards,
Sean
I'm not an electrician but I've worked on lots of vehicles including
motorcycles.I can't figure it out from what you provide but I can tell
you that of the wires that go to the switch,at least one will be "hot"
all the time,the "hot-wire". You need to experiment and find which post
that wire goes to so that other circuits are activated when switched to
"on". There will be one or two for the lights,turn indicators,break
light,one for ignition,and I can't think what the others would be for
on such a simple vehicle. Just get the ones to the lights and ignition
to get juice in the on position.I should be real easy.

Electric Problem
 

sean wrote:
I'm not an electrician but I've worked on lots of vehicles including
motorcycles.I can't figure it out from what you provide but I can tell
you that of the wires that go to the switch,at least one will be "hot"
all the time,the "hot-wire". You need to experiment and find which post
that wire goes to so that other circuits are activated when switched to
"on". There will be one or two for the lights,turn indicators,break
light,one for ignition,and I can't think what the others would be for
on such a simple vehicle. Just get the ones to the lights and ignition
to get juice in the on position.I should be real easy.


Thanks for your input. My only concern with attaching any wires to the ignition
points without fully understanding what would happen kinda worries me. Can I
cause any big damage if I connect the wrong wire to any point on the ignition?
There are a few fuses on the loom but I'm guessing I could still cause damage.

Also are you saying that just one wire attached to the ignition switch will
start the bike?

Regards,
Sean
Actually it would take two; the "hot wire" and the wire to the
ignition. If you just twist these two together you can start the bike.
Iff all the wires are disconnected just measure from the hot wire to
each post and see which ones if any are grounded.(you will get a
reading). Try this in both on and off possitions. Rule out any that get
a read-(you're looking for the post to attach the hot wire to).Also
measure between the hot wire (from the battery) to each other wire to
see if one is a ground wire but bhetter to just trace it back and
look..If you found a post that was grounded,connect and ground wire to
this post.I am only guessing here that there MAY be a ground wire. It
should be easy.If you do it all with the meter 1st you don't have to
worry about blowing a fuse (unless there is a short in the system of
course)- cougar

Electric Problem
 

On 5 Jun 2006 16:29:34 -0700, "brianorion"
wrote:


sean wrote:
I'm not an electrician but I've worked on lots of vehicles including
motorcycles.I can't figure it out from what you provide but I can tell
you that of the wires that go to the switch,at least one will be "hot"
all the time,the "hot-wire". You need to experiment and find which post
that wire goes to so that other circuits are activated when switched to
"on". There will be one or two for the lights,turn indicators,break
light,one for ignition,and I can't think what the others would be for
on such a simple vehicle. Just get the ones to the lights and ignition
to get juice in the on position.I should be real easy.


Thanks for your input. My only concern with attaching any wires to the ignition
points without fully understanding what would happen kinda worries me. Can I
cause any big damage if I connect the wrong wire to any point on the ignition?
There are a few fuses on the loom but I'm guessing I could still cause damage.

Also are you saying that just one wire attached to the ignition switch will
start the bike?

Regards,
Sean
Actually it would take two; the "hot wire" and the wire to the
ignition. If you just twist these two together you can start the bike.
Iff all the wires are disconnected just measure from the hot wire to
each post and see which ones if any are grounded.(you will get a
reading). Try this in both on and off possitions. Rule out any that get
a read-(you're looking for the post to attach the hot wire to).Also
measure between the hot wire (from the battery) to each other wire to
see if one is a ground wire but bhetter to just trace it back and
look..If you found a post that was grounded,connect and ground wire to
this post.I am only guessing here that there MAY be a ground wire. It
should be easy.If you do it all with the meter 1st you don't have to
worry about blowing a fuse (unless there is a short in the system of
course)- cougar


When you say 'grounded', what does that mean exactly? The
only wire that does not show a voltage is the black/white
wire. Is it possible this is the grounded wire? I am
presuming the red wire is the 'hot' wire as it comes from
the batteries positive terminal

Electric Problem
 

On 2006-06-03, sean wrote:

I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a
moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use
to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I
have no wiring diagram.

I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition
points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections
being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are
being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a
specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike.
And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost
to the bike.

Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points:

IGNITION OFF

1________5
\ /
\ /
2 \ / 4
\ /
3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 5 connects to point 3
Point 3 connects to point 1


IGNITION ON

1_______5


2_________4

3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 2 connects to point 4

If you have magneto ignition (a magnet in the side of the flywheel that
energises the spark coil) - You'll be able to kick-start the motor with all
the wires disconected

terminal 3 goes to the ignition (it'll probably be a thin with with
thickish insulation) 1 or 5 goes to the battery negative or chassis
of the bike

2 and 4 are the battery positive and lights etc

Bye.
Jasen

Electric Problem
 

If you have magneto ignition (a magnet in the side of the flywheel that
energises the spark coil) - You'll be able to kick-start the motor with all
the wires disconected

terminal 3 goes to the ignition (it'll probably be a thin with with
thickish insulation) 1 or 5 goes to the battery negative or chassis
of the bike

2 and 4 are the battery positive and lights etc

Bye.
Jasen


Thanks for this info, that's very helpful. My wiring diagram
of the bike shows the word magneto next to a rectifier and
CDI ignitor so I assume I must have a magneto ignition.

So points 2 and 4 are both +12v? ( Red and Green show +12v
when testing with the Black wire. Does it matter which +12v
goes to which point? I'm guessing it doesn't as either way,
the points are connected together as soon as the ignition is
switched ON.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,
Sean

Electric Problem
 

On 2006-06-06, sean wrote:


If you have magneto ignition (a magnet in the side of the flywheel that
energises the spark coil) - You'll be able to kick-start the motor with all
the wires disconected

terminal 3 goes to the ignition (it'll probably be a thin with with
thickish insulation) 1 or 5 goes to the battery negative or chassis
of the bike

2 and 4 are the battery positive and lights etc

Bye.
Jasen


Thanks for this info, that's very helpful. My wiring diagram
of the bike shows the word magneto next to a rectifier and
CDI ignitor so I assume I must have a magneto ignition.

yuou have a wiring diagram?
theere should be some sory of legend that identifies the colour
of each wire on that diagram.

there should also be numbers next to the terminals of the
ignition switch these should be on the diagram too.

So points 2 and 4 are both +12v? ( Red and Green show +12v
when testing with the Black wire. Does it matter which +12v
goes to which point? I'm guessing it doesn't as either way,
the points are connected together as soon as the ignition is
switched ON.

your're seeing +12V on both the red and the green wires with no
switch there? that seems a little odd,

Thanks again for your help.

I'd like to see the diagram.

--

Bye.
Jasen

Electric Problem
 

On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:23:46 -0000, Jasen Betts
CDI ignitor so I assume I must have a magneto ignition.

yuou have a wiring diagram?
theere should be some sory of legend that identifies the colour
of each wire on that diagram.

there should also be numbers next to the terminals of the
ignition switch these should be on the diagram too.


I did study the wiring diagram at length but couldn't
identify the ignition or colors. The colors I have don't
appear to tally up with anything on the diagram. I am
thinking that the wires that use to come out of the ignition
barrel which would have terminated on a female connector,
could have been colored differently. EG The male connector
which is still intact has the colors red/green/black/b/w but
the female connector which runs the wires to the ignition
barrel may have 2 yellows a red and a black, so the wiring
diagram wouldn't have helped me if that were the case.



So points 2 and 4 are both +12v? ( Red and Green show +12v
when testing with the Black wire. Does it matter which +12v
goes to which point? I'm guessing it doesn't as either way,
the points are connected together as soon as the ignition is
switched ON.

your're seeing +12V on both the red and the green wires with no
switch there? that seems a little odd,


I'm testing both red and black then the green and black wire
and they are both have +12v.

Thanks again for your help.

I'd like to see the diagram.

I've uploaded it he
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...-200622-00.jpg

You may have to save the image to your drive and view it
using a suitable picture viewer as IE resizes it so small
you can't read it.


Regards,
Sean

Electric Problem
 

sean wrote:
Hi,

I have an electrical problem which I am hoping to solve. Basically I have a
moped with an ignition switch which has 5 points. I also have 4 wires which use
to connect to these points. However, I have no idea of the correct wiring as I
have no wiring diagram.

I have used a meter to determine what connections are being made on the ignition
points when in the 'ON' and 'OFF' state and noted the different connections
being made. I am presuming when the ignition is switched ON, connections are
being made within the ignition itself, which makes the 4 wires connect in a
specific way to create a working circuit and then enables you to start the bike.
And when the ignition is switched OFF, the circuit is broken and power is lost
to the bike.

Heres a rough diagram of the ignition barrels points:

IGNITION OFF

1________5
\ /
\ /
2 \ / 4
\ /
3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 5 connects to point 3
Point 3 connects to point 1



IGNITION ON

1_______5


2_________4

3

Point 1 connects to point 5
Point 2 connects to point 4

I have a photo with the circuit diagrams if you want to have a clearer look:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...1/ignition.jpg


I have also tested the wires and come to this conclusion:

Red = +12v ( This comes from the + point of the battery
Black = -12v ( This comes from the - point of the battery
Black/White = ? ( This has no current at all, could be the 'KILL' point to
prevent bike from starting?)
Green = +12v ( Seems to provide power to the lighting system)

I tested black with green and it came up with 12v and I found this green wire
connects to the head lamp and so I presume this provides current for the
lighting system and the red wire is to start the engine) The problem is,
looking at the ON and OFF diagrams, I am not sure what's going on. I can see
something is going on, but not entirely sure what. So my question is simply
this, can anyone see any logical way for these wires to be connected to create a
working circuit on the basis of the above diagrams?

Thanks for reading and any advice on this matter

Regards,
Sean


Sean, could I suggest that you connect the black lead of your meter to
the negative terminal of your battery and leave it there. This gives us
a ZERO Volts reference point. Then tell us what voltage you get at each
of the five switch points, with the ignition OFF, ON and in the START
position. (I'm guessing there is a start position.)

Daniel

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Electric Problem
 

Sean, could I suggest that you connect the black lead of your meter to
the negative terminal of your battery and leave it there. This gives us
a ZERO Volts reference point. Then tell us what voltage you get at each
of the five switch points, with the ignition OFF, ON and in the START
position. (I'm guessing there is a start position.)

Daniel

Hi Daniel,
I do not get any voltage from the ignition barrel. I am
presuming it's not connected to anything. All I have are
these 4 wires which do show voltage.

There is just an ON, OFF but no START, just an electric push
button to start the bike

Regards
Sean