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#1
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microcontroller flash memory question
In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the
staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Henry |
#2
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microcontroller flash memory question
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:42:58 -0500, Henry wrote:
In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Some of these links might help: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ycles+lifetime Another thing you could do is write your firmware better, so you don't have to take so many debug cycles. :-) Have Fun! Rich |
#3
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microcontroller flash memory question
"Rich Grise" wrote in message news On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:42:58 -0500, Henry wrote: In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Some of these links might help: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ycles+lifetime Another thing you could do is write your firmware better, so you don't have to take so many debug cycles. :-) Have Fun! Rich I propose that just answering with a Google search be a new net-etiquette rule. First Google searches tend to be filled with a list of sites where one site is just a copy of another (sometimes exact copy) over and over again. And if its bad information, you simply get the same bad information repeated over and over. And there are lots of information that simply is not on Google. Its also just obnoxious. Ussually I ignore such Google search "answers". But out of curiosity I took a chance. Sure enough, the links added nothing to what I already know from my own searches and even what I stated in my question. Again, this is why I tend to ignore such replies and will continue to do so in the future. Henry |
#4
Posted to alt.electronics
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microcontroller flash memory question
On 2006-02-17, Henry wrote:
In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. several months is about right I think the intention is that after you get it doing the task you want you leav it installed and buy a fresh one to play with... if the part costs less than $10 that's not a big issue... I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Atmel? Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? Some can only be programmed once. some trainer kits use external static ram to hold the program so you can reprogram any number of times. (but loose the program when the power goes off) I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. IIRC the basic stamp uses an interpreter in ROM to execute code loaded into its EEPROM, EEPROM seems to offer more rewrites than flash. Bye. Jasen |
#5
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microcontroller flash memory question
"Henry" wrote in message
om... In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Henry There are no rules. You need to refer to detailed data sheets for each device you are interested in. -- Brian Gregory. (In the UK) To email me remove the letter vee. |
#6
Posted to alt.electronics
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microcontroller flash memory question
"Jasen Betts" wrote in message ... On 2006-02-17, Henry wrote: In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. several months is about right I think the intention is that after you get it doing the task you want you leav it installed and buy a fresh one to play with... if the part costs less than $10 that's not a big issue... I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Atmel? Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? Some can only be programmed once. some trainer kits use external static ram to hold the program so you can reprogram any number of times. (but loose the program when the power goes off) I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. IIRC the basic stamp uses an interpreter in ROM to execute code loaded into its EEPROM, EEPROM seems to offer more rewrites than flash. Bye. Jasen Thanks. Now that is more useful. The one site was Atom-something. (I've been to so many sites I have lost track. Also my eyesight is going somewhat as I get tired reading from the screen to easily these days.) The microcontroller I am considering is the basic stamp. At $30-$40 I want to know if I need to buy an extra for when I get done "experimenting" with the first. Thanks, Henry |
#7
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microcontroller flash memory question
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message ... "Henry" wrote in message om... In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Henry There are no rules. You need to refer to detailed data sheets for each device you are interested in. -- Brian Gregory. (In the UK) To email me remove the letter vee. Is that information in the datasheets? For example, when I downloaded the datasheets for the HT12E/D encoder and decoders (that someone here suggested for me one photo related project) there was no mention of how long it took the devices to operate. So after the waste of a purchase it turns out that the decoder's delay (about 1/10 sec) to decode made it useless for me intended purpose. I had previously sent the company a question and got no reply. Decades ago there was much more curtsy and expertise in getting questions answered from manufactures. Even the old SN7400 series chips had switching speeds listed (usually in the tens of ns.) But now it seems that there is a "buy it and try it, if it doesn't work, tough luck" attitude in the world. Henry |
#8
Posted to alt.electronics
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microcontroller flash memory question
"Rich Grise" wrote in message news On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:58:56 -0500, Henry wrote: "Rich Grise" wrote in message Some of these links might help: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ycles+lifetime Another thing you could do is write your firmware better, so you don't have to take so many debug cycles. :-) I propose that just answering with a Google search be a new net-etiquette rule. First Google searches tend to be filled with a list of sites where one site is just a copy of another (sometimes exact copy) over and over again. And if its bad information, you simply get the same bad information repeated over and over. And there are lots of information that simply is not on Google. Its also just obnoxious. No, what's obnoxious is googlegroupies waltzing into the newsgroup (which existed a long time before google was even a gleam in what's-his-name's eye), demanding answers to questions that could have already been answered if the kiddie had bothered to check the left side of google first. If you're too lazy/stubborn to even do that minuscule amount of research, then you simply don't deserve that kind of hand-holding from people who do know their elbow from a hole in the ground. Thanks, Rich First of all I am not completely sure I understand some of your message. Yes, Google is recent. I have been on the Internet long before there was the WWW, when the newsgroups were some of the best ways to get information that was otherwise difficult to find. I dont find Google all that useful. There is too much repeated and sometimes bad information out there. Rich, are you referring to yourself as the "googlegroupy?" Because it was you that posted the Google search link, not me. I dont know about you, but I was in college back when the Internet was only experimental protocols like Bitnet. Now, on another discussion list I did got some "off the record" type information that is somewhat useful from an old friend that now works at CMU's robotics lab. I will share that comment in another post. About the rest of your reply, well you assume far too much and I am not even going to waist anymore of my time with you. You want to act like a child, then I will ignore you like one. Henry |
#9
Posted to alt.electronics
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microcontroller flash memory question
Here is some information I got from an old friend that now works at a
robotics lab. I asked my question in other places. ***** I don't program, so I don't use these. Older small robot projects used the basic stamp; they are apparently simple to program but not very fast. PIC controllers are used in several of my more complex robots, but I hear grumbling every time some grad student needs to write code that talks to them. (Admittedly, if they are writing code at that level, it *isn't* what they are doing research on, it is just to get the robots to work; the students I work with are doing research on planners, not actuators.) ***** Now that has some useful, real experience, type information that you dont find on manufacturers web sites. Henry |
#10
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microcontroller flash memory question
I'm not sure what micro controller u are using but did u consider a
simulater proteus can simulate sevrol diferint pic microcontrolers and no limite on rewrights, lol it should be able to do realtime for all but the most complex designs http://www.labcenter.co.uk/index_uk.htm I hope this is usfull -- diehard67 http://www.geocities.com/diehard67 "Henry" wrote in message om... In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Henry |
#11
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microcontroller flash memory question
I have considered a simulator. That might work out some bugs. But when
interfacing with real world devices, there is nothing like testing with the real thing. If the simulators are free, then I might consider one learning the programming language. But, again, as I learned over a decade ago when I did some process control programming with Fortran on VAX/VMS systems, there is nothing like testing with the real hardware. THanks, though. Henry "diehard67" wrote in message news:J7HKf.56600$H%4.16830@pd7tw2no... I'm not sure what micro controller u are using but did u consider a simulater proteus can simulate sevrol diferint pic microcontrolers and no limite on rewrights, lol it should be able to do realtime for all but the most complex designs http://www.labcenter.co.uk/index_uk.htm I hope this is usfull -- diehard67 http://www.geocities.com/diehard67 "Henry" wrote in message om... In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Henry |
#12
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microcontroller flash memory question
Finally heard back from Parallax (manufacturer of the Basic Stamp
microcontroller.) They claim that their microcontrollers are good for up to 10 million re-programming cycles. FYI, Henry "Henry" wrote in message om... In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000 times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times. Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million times. I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented. Henry |
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