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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Rewiring a ballast. Help needed.
Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that
my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. Thanks a lot! Sean. |
#2
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Excellent webpage about fluorescent lamp theory, and how to wire them. There
are some ASCII type diagrams towards the bottom of the document. The diagrams shown, are very standard. http://members.misty.com/don/f-lamp.html#int0 -- Jerry G. ====== "Sean" wrote in message ... Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. Thanks a lot! Sean. |
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:14:32 GMT, "Sean" wrote:
Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. If I understand all this correctly the switch has four connections. Is that correct? From your description is seems that this is a Preheat (switch start) circuit and you will not be able to replace the four-contact switch with a two-contact switch of any type. The switch provides the functions of both power switch and starter switch. (It must have three positions, even if one is momentary: Off, On, and Start.) You could use a standard power switch and then a glow bottle starter - if you can find one to match your lamp - but you would be better off replacing the ballast with something more modern that can be controlled with a simple series switch. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#4
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"Sean" wrote in message ... Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) ... I bet you press and hold the switch, then release it. During the press and hold the lamp is shorted out to preheat the filaments. You need the special switch. Ask at a hardware store, but make sure the guy knows what he is talking about. N |
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Thanks for the reference. The diagrams help a lot.
Sean. "Jerry G." wrote in message ... Excellent webpage about fluorescent lamp theory, and how to wire them. There are some ASCII type diagrams towards the bottom of the document. The diagrams shown, are very standard. http://members.misty.com/don/f-lamp.html#int0 -- Jerry G. ====== "Sean" wrote in message ... Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. Thanks a lot! Sean. |
#6
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Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it
doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean "Victor Roberts" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:14:32 GMT, "Sean" wrote: Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. If I understand all this correctly the switch has four connections. Is that correct? From your description is seems that this is a Preheat (switch start) circuit and you will not be able to replace the four-contact switch with a two-contact switch of any type. The switch provides the functions of both power switch and starter switch. (It must have three positions, even if one is momentary: Off, On, and Start.) You could use a standard power switch and then a glow bottle starter - if you can find one to match your lamp - but you would be better off replacing the ballast with something more modern that can be controlled with a simple series switch. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#7
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"Sean" wrote in message ... Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. Thanks a lot! Sean. While it's hard for me to visualize without a drawing, it sounds somewhat like a switch start preheat ballast where you turn the switch on and hold it for a moment to preheat the cathodes. If that's the case then to bypass it you would need to install a starter in place of the starting contacts in the power switch. |
#8
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"Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. |
#9
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:44:12 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote: "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power supplies. if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow starter. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#10
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"Victor Roberts" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:44:12 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power supplies. if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow starter. 40W glowbottle starters are readily available in the US, they were widely used up until the 70's when rapid start came out and there's still quite a few old fixtures that use them. I have a 4 lamp 4' preheat fixture from the 60's that uses 120v autotransformer ballasts and glowbottle starters. I have found also that starters are quite non critical, and I've used a 20W starter in a pinch, though it likely wouldn't last as long. |
#11
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I appreciate your desire to get this to work & the fun/challenge
therein, but should it prove to be more f'ing around than it's worth, keep in mind you can buy a brand new 4' single tube starterless light for $10-15. They usually come "knocked down", so it would be a pretty easy task to fit the new ballast etc to the existing fixture/fish tank, should you not be able to use the entire new fixture itself. Dan Sean wrote: Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. Thanks a lot! Sean. |
#12
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:46:47 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote: "Victor Roberts" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:44:12 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power supplies. if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow starter. 40W glowbottle starters are readily available in the US, they were widely used up until the 70's when rapid start came out and there's still quite a few old fixtures that use them. I have a 4 lamp 4' preheat fixture from the 60's that uses 120v autotransformer ballasts and glowbottle starters. Actually rapid start is much older than the 1970's, but you are correct about 40-watt preheat start lamps. The 1981 IES Handbook lists both 40-watt T12 and 90-watt T17 preheat start lamps. Thanks - I learned something new today. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#13
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"Victor Roberts" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:46:47 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Victor Roberts" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:44:12 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power supplies. if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow starter. 40W glowbottle starters are readily available in the US, they were widely used up until the 70's when rapid start came out and there's still quite a few old fixtures that use them. I have a 4 lamp 4' preheat fixture from the 60's that uses 120v autotransformer ballasts and glowbottle starters. Actually rapid start is much older than the 1970's, but you are correct about 40-watt preheat start lamps. The 1981 IES Handbook lists both 40-watt T12 and 90-watt T17 preheat start lamps. Thanks - I learned something new today. Perhaps it was 60's? I'm not sure really, but I do know that preheat start 40W tubes were very common in the 50's and at least partly into the 60's, RS didn't seem to catch on until the 70's. One possible reason is that RS has much more trouble starting in cold weather or high humidity and requires a grounded reflector in close proximity to the lamp. The 90W T17 lamps are dinosaurs, I've never actually seen one up close but they were used in streetlighting some in the 50's. Another neat lamp I'd love to get my hands on are the GE PowerGroove PG17 series of VHO (1500mA) lamps that were somewhat common in the 70's. They use a rippled tube that allows a 9' arc length in an 8' tube and were available in 4' as well. |
#14
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"Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Add a glow lamp starter to the circuit. That should work fine with the existing ballast. Otherwise you'll need a complete new ballast, and a complete new lamp is cheaper. In Canada you can get models with an electronic ballast quite cheap. Home Depot or Rona will have these - possibly on sale. They plug in, so you can plug it into a wall timer. Easy, cheap! N |
#15
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:20:07 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote: Actually rapid start is much older than the 1970's, but you are correct about 40-watt preheat start lamps. The 1981 IES Handbook lists both 40-watt T12 and 90-watt T17 preheat start lamps. Thanks - I learned something new today. Perhaps it was 60's? I'm not sure really, but I do know that preheat start 40W tubes were very common in the 50's and at least partly into the 60's, RS didn't seem to catch on until the 70's. One possible reason is that RS has much more trouble starting in cold weather or high humidity and requires a grounded reflector in close proximity to the lamp. We need some input from Terry here, but we developed the 34-watt T12 energy saving lamp while I was working at GE Lighting in the mid-1970's. One problem with the lamp was that due to the lower lamp voltage the 34-watt lamp placed more voltage stress on the internal capacitor in rapid start ballasts. When the new 34-watt lamp was installed in fixtures with old rapid start ballasts, many of the capacitors, which were near end of life anyway, blew. So these ballasts must have been almost 20 years old by 1975- which means they were popular by the mid-1950s. By the mid-1970's the 40-watt rapid start lamp was nearing the end of its life due to the new 34-watt rapid start lamp. The 90W T17 lamps are dinosaurs, I've never actually seen one up close but they were used in streetlighting some in the 50's. Another neat lamp I'd love to get my hands on are the GE PowerGroove PG17 series of VHO (1500mA) lamps that were somewhat common in the 70's. They use a rippled tube that allows a 9' arc length in an 8' tube and were available in 4' as well. Well, we had lots of Power Groove lamps at Nela Park along with its inventor - who I believe was Gene Lemmers - who also co-invented the rapid start ballast, I believe with John Aicher. Terry, can you help here? The Power Groove lamp was introduced by GE about 1956 and was a rapid start lamp, so the basic rapid start system must be older than that. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#16
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We need some input from Terry here, but we developed the 34-watt T12 energy saving lamp while I was working at GE Lighting in the mid-1970's. One problem with the lamp was that due to the lower lamp voltage the 34-watt lamp placed more voltage stress on the internal capacitor in rapid start ballasts. When the new 34-watt lamp was installed in fixtures with old rapid start ballasts, many of the capacitors, which were near end of life anyway, blew. So these ballasts must have been almost 20 years old by 1975- which means they were popular by the mid-1950s. By the mid-1970's the 40-watt rapid start lamp was nearing the end of its life due to the new 34-watt rapid start lamp. Those 34W lamps were (and are) awful, always dim and they flicker if it's even a bit chilly. I always thought it was so silly that with the regulations for efficiency of the lamps and ballasts the end result was that we had more efficient but dim lamps so you had to use more of them resulting in a net increase in ballast losses and overall power. Well, we had lots of Power Groove lamps at Nela Park along with its inventor - who I believe was Gene Lemmers - who also co-invented the rapid start ballast, I believe with John Aicher. Terry, can you help here? The Power Groove lamp was introduced by GE about 1956 and was a rapid start lamp, so the basic rapid start system must be older than that. I didn't realize the PG's came out so long ago. HO and VHO have always been RS as far as I know, for some reason it took longer for RS to catch on for indoor use though, I'm not really sure why. You don't see many PG lamps anymore, I think only the 96" version is still in production. VHO in general is not real popular these days, I have a couple 4' VHO fixtures in my garage, they're very bright but not real efficient and the phosphor is hit so hard with UV that it degrades fairly rapidly. It'd probably work well using a modern trichromatic phosphor but as far as I know nobody makes those. |
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I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and
there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Thanks, Sean "James Sweet" wrote in message news:gEHYd.474$mq2.225@trnddc08... "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. |
#18
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:49:53 GMT, "Sean" wrote:
I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more information than you provided in your original note. You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO WHICH PIN, which is critical. Based on what you wrote, I THINK that the starter would wired to the two wires that go respectively to the top left and top right contact of your switch. But this is ONLY correct if the wire currently connected to the top right hand contact of the switch is also connected to the pin on the right side of the lamp that does NOT also connect to the power line. I assume that the white lead from the ballast goes to the SAME lamp pin as the power line, so there are two wires connected to this AND ONLY THIS lamp pin. If my assumptions about which wires go to which lamp pins are not correct, then the rest of my suggestions should be ignored. If the above is correct, then the timer switch is wired between the two bottom contacts of the switch. The information above is provided for educational purposes and you are responsible for understanding the hazards of working with electrical circuits and any damage to person or property that may result from experimenting with this lamp circuit. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#19
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Victor Roberts writes:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:49:53 GMT, "Sean" wrote: I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more information than you provided in your original note. You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that Actually, they are my diagrams. each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO WHICH PIN, which is critical. Huh? Unless I misunderstand your statement, it is irrelevant. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive traffic on Repairfaq.org. Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. Based on what you wrote, I THINK that the starter would wired to the two wires that go respectively to the top left and top right contact of your switch. But this is ONLY correct if the wire currently connected to the top right hand contact of the switch is also connected to the pin on the right side of the lamp that does NOT also connect to the power line. I assume that the white lead from the ballast goes to the SAME lamp pin as the power line, so there are two wires connected to this AND ONLY THIS lamp pin. If my assumptions about which wires go to which lamp pins are not correct, then the rest of my suggestions should be ignored. If the above is correct, then the timer switch is wired between the two bottom contacts of the switch. The information above is provided for educational purposes and you are responsible for understanding the hazards of working with electrical circuits and any damage to person or property that may result from experimenting with this lamp circuit. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
#20
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On 13 Mar 2005 08:41:48 -0500, Sam Goldwasser
wrote: Victor Roberts writes: On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:49:53 GMT, "Sean" wrote: I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more information than you provided in your original note. You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that Actually, they are my diagrams. I apologize for the error. each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO WHICH PIN, which is critical. Huh? Unless I misunderstand your statement, it is irrelevant. The OP has described 5 wires going to a 4-pin lamp - so (at least) one lamp pin must have two wires. One of those 5 wires goes directly to the power line. He must not connect the starter to the lamp pin that is connected to the power line. As you know, the starter is to be connected from one end of the lamp to the other, and connected to the side of each electrodes that is not connected to the ballast or power line per _your_ diagram :-) -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
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Victor Roberts writes:
On 13 Mar 2005 08:41:48 -0500, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Victor Roberts writes: On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:49:53 GMT, "Sean" wrote: I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more information than you provided in your original note. You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that Actually, they are my diagrams. I apologize for the error. each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO WHICH PIN, which is critical. Huh? Unless I misunderstand your statement, it is irrelevant. The OP has described 5 wires going to a 4-pin lamp - so (at least) one lamp pin must have two wires. One of those 5 wires goes directly to the power line. He must not connect the starter to the lamp pin that is connected to the power line. As you know, the starter is to be connected from one end of the lamp to the other, and connected to the side of each electrodes that is not connected to the ballast or power line per _your_ diagram :-) Oh, then all he should be doing is substituting the glow starter for the switch contacts. He shouldn't have to rewire the socket. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive traffic on Repairfaq.org. Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
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On 13 Mar 2005 10:13:25 -0500, Sam Goldwasser
wrote: Victor Roberts writes: On 13 Mar 2005 08:41:48 -0500, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Victor Roberts writes: On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:49:53 GMT, "Sean" wrote: I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Someone else gave you a link to Don's lighting site. Look and the second diagram under preheat start. That being said, you need more information than you provided in your original note. You will see from Don's diagram and perhaps your own experience, that Actually, they are my diagrams. I apologize for the error. each end of the lamp has two pins. You have told us in your original note that a certain wire goes to a certain end of the lamp, but NOT TO WHICH PIN, which is critical. Huh? Unless I misunderstand your statement, it is irrelevant. The OP has described 5 wires going to a 4-pin lamp - so (at least) one lamp pin must have two wires. One of those 5 wires goes directly to the power line. He must not connect the starter to the lamp pin that is connected to the power line. As you know, the starter is to be connected from one end of the lamp to the other, and connected to the side of each electrodes that is not connected to the ballast or power line per _your_ diagram :-) Oh, then all he should be doing is substituting the glow starter for the switch contacts. He shouldn't have to rewire the socket. You are correct, However, I was not suggesting he rewire the sockets, only that with the limited info he provided we could be sure which 2 of the 4 contacts on the switch should be used for the starter. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
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"Victor Roberts" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:44:12 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power supplies.** if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow starter. Not sure if that ** is correct? Reason is I have some older non working older type fluorescents fixtures that I intend to update and respray that have those little aluminum can type starters that definitely worked on 115 AC. Some others have been converted to use the more modern type of ballast that does not require starter. In fact 50 years ago IIRC most/many f.fixtures used starters. They had/have a little neon and a resistor inside and yes you had to have the right kind of starter. The more modern ballast without the starter (not the even more modern electronic) is a lot more convenient. My reason for renovating older fixtures is that I've got a lifetime supply of good used and new ballasts! Also about 100 tubes (which are not that expensive anyway) at least 60% of which are good! And other useful bits. All that is needed is a bit of sanding a can of white spray paint and some time. And also yes the simple fluorescent on top of our cooking stove has that push and hold to start pre-heat type switch. The ballast for the fluorescent in that, AFIK, is just a choke (series inductor)? Have fun. |
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"Sean" wrote in message ... I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Thanks, Sean "James Sweet" wrote in message news:gEHYd.474$mq2.225@trnddc08... "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean Sean I think I've got some starters somewhere I'll see if I can find them. But if it's standard four footer tube might be simpler but a bit more expensive to use a non-starter type ballast? All the spare ballasts I got are for the two 40/34 watt type tube fixtures. Email if you wish. Another Terry. Newfoundland Canada. |
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Sean I think I've got some starters somewhere I'll see if I can find them. But if it's standard four footer tube might be simpler but a bit more expensive to use a non-starter type ballast? All the spare ballasts I got are for the two 40/34 watt type tube fixtures. Email if you wish. Another Terry. Newfoundland Canada. Installing a rapid start ballast is an option, though he'll have to fit a grounded power cord to ground the reflector for that approach, and the high humidity above the fish tank may prevent reliable starting. If I were doing this myself I'd pick up an electronic ballast for an F32T8 tube and retrofit it to T8, but then the old preheat start 40W T12's worked pretty well, the ballasts tend to run the tubes hotter than the newer RS stuff. |
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:34:00 -0330, "Terry"
wrote: "Victor Roberts" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:44:12 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. But it must match his lamp. While the Op did not give us lamp data, he indicated it was a 40-watt ballast. Therefore I am assuming the lamp is a 40-watt or 34-watt lamp (until I get better information.) If the OP lives in the US, I do not believe he can purchase a glow starter for 40-watt lamps since they will not operate from 120 volt power supplies.** if the OP lives in a part of the work where the normal supply voltage is 220 to 240 volts, he should be able to find a glow starter. Not sure if that ** is correct? Sorry for the confusion. I said "power supply" thinking "power supply to the lamp" and was thinking that all preheat circuits use a simple series inductor (or resistor). I was unaware of preheat circuits that use a step-up transformer until this thread. (Still seems silly in view of rapid start ballasts.) With a step-up transformer, the voltage supplied to the lamp is well over 120 volts. Reason is I have some older non working older type fluorescents fixtures that I intend to update and respray that have those little aluminum can type starters that definitely worked on 115 AC. These must use a step-up transformer. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
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Reason is I have some older non working older type fluorescents fixtures that I intend to update and respray that have those little aluminum can type starters that definitely worked on 115 AC. These must use a step-up transformer. -- They do, and they were quite common at one time. One other advantage they have is that they lack separate windings providing continuous power to the filaments in the tubes so the total power consumption is several watts lower. |
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:40:37 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote: Reason is I have some older non working older type fluorescents fixtures that I intend to update and respray that have those little aluminum can type starters that definitely worked on 115 AC. These must use a step-up transformer. -- They do, and they were quite common at one time. One other advantage they have is that they lack separate windings providing continuous power to the filaments in the tubes so the total power consumption is several watts lower. The power savings is perhaps 1 watt per lamp and perhaps another watt in the ballast. The downside is much shorter lamp life. Rapid Start ballasts are by far the most common type of EM ballast use for 4-foot fluorescent lamps in the US. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
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"Victor Roberts" wrote in message news On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:20:07 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: Actually rapid start is much older than the 1970's, but you are correct about 40-watt preheat start lamps. The 1981 IES Handbook lists both 40-watt T12 and 90-watt T17 preheat start lamps. Thanks - I learned something new today. Perhaps it was 60's? I'm not sure really, but I do know that preheat start 40W tubes were very common in the 50's and at least partly into the 60's, RS didn't seem to catch on until the 70's. One possible reason is that RS has much more trouble starting in cold weather or high humidity and requires a grounded reflector in close proximity to the lamp. We need some input from Terry here, but we developed the 34-watt T12 energy saving lamp while I was working at GE Lighting in the mid-1970's. One problem with the lamp was that due to the lower lamp voltage the 34-watt lamp placed more voltage stress on the internal capacitor in rapid start ballasts. When the new 34-watt lamp was installed in fixtures with old rapid start ballasts, many of the capacitors, which were near end of life anyway, blew. So these ballasts must have been almost 20 years old by 1975- which means they were popular by the mid-1950s. By the mid-1970's the 40-watt rapid start lamp was nearing the end of its life due to the new 34-watt rapid start lamp. The 90W T17 lamps are dinosaurs, I've never actually seen one up close but they were used in streetlighting some in the 50's. Another neat lamp I'd love to get my hands on are the GE PowerGroove PG17 series of VHO (1500mA) lamps that were somewhat common in the 70's. They use a rippled tube that allows a 9' arc length in an 8' tube and were available in 4' as well. Well, we had lots of Power Groove lamps at Nela Park along with its inventor - who I believe was Gene Lemmers - who also co-invented the rapid start ballast, I believe with John Aicher. Terry, can you help here? The Power Groove lamp was introduced by GE about 1956 and was a rapid start lamp, so the basic rapid start system must be older than that. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. Rapid start circuits appear to date from the early 1950s. I have a GE publication dated 1/56 that describes them and calls them "new", but which devotes most of the fluorescent section to switch-start circuits. I remember seeing my first rapid start installation while in college about 1958 and being fascinated by the smooth starting of a room full of fixtures without the usual blinking and flickering that characterized switch-start lamps. The F90T17 is still a listed lamp in the GE Catalog; however I was surprised to see the comment that they were used for streetlighting. The light output is low (about 5000 lumens) for its size. A 40 watt T17 was promoted for its low surface brightness and touted as one of the few fluorescent lamps that could be used in bare-tube installations with little glare. For streetlighting, (in the US anyway) I thought that either 800 mA or 1500 mA T12 lamps were the only ones commonly used. The 4-foot 1500 mA T12 lamp is rated for about 6200 lumens. Power Groove lamps are also still listed, but only in the 8-foot size. I've seen them also used for streetlighting, area lighting (gas stations) and billboard lighting. The grooved tube increases the phosphor surface area compared to smooth lamps and also increases the arc length for a given physical length. If you ever have a chance to examine a Power Groove lamp, feel the grooves near the center. Two of them are deeper than the others and they provide the "cold spot" that controls the amount of mercury in the arc. Power Groove lamps became fairly widely used in the 1960s (they appeared in 1958, I think) and were primarily promoted for high-bay industrial lighting. I don't know if Gene Lemmers was the inventor. It's certainly likely. Gene continued working at Nela Park well into his 80s and commented to me once that he wanted to match the number of his patents to his age before retiring. Terry McGowan |
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They do, and they were quite common at one time. One other advantage they have is that they lack separate windings providing continuous power to the filaments in the tubes so the total power consumption is several watts lower. The power savings is perhaps 1 watt per lamp and perhaps another watt in the ballast. The downside is much shorter lamp life. Rapid Start ballasts are by far the most common type of EM ballast use for 4-foot fluorescent lamps in the US. From what I've read, it's more like 3-6 watts per lamp, which if you're talking 500 lamps in a decent sized building can be somewhat significant. I haven't looked at what it does to lamp life, but instant start is the worst for that. It gets confusing too that most commercial or industrial types are specified at 10 hours per start, while residential lamps are rated for 3 hours per start. Lifespan drops dramatically with more frequent starting cycles. |
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:39:50 GMT, "T-M" wrote:
[snip] Power Groove lamps are also still listed, but only in the 8-foot size. I've seen them also used for streetlighting, area lighting (gas stations) and billboard lighting. The grooved tube increases the phosphor surface area compared to smooth lamps and also increases the arc length for a given physical length. If you ever have a chance to examine a Power Groove lamp, feel the grooves near the center. Two of them are deeper than the others and they provide the "cold spot" that controls the amount of mercury in the arc. Power Groove lamps became fairly widely used in the 1960s (they appeared in 1958, I think) and were primarily promoted for high-bay industrial lighting. I don't know if Gene Lemmers was the inventor. It's certainly likely. Gene continued working at Nela Park well into his 80s and commented to me once that he wanted to match the number of his patents to his age before retiring. Terry McGowan Terry - thanks for all the good information. I thought that Gene Lemmers was the inventor because I remember a lot of debates with Gene and Ed Hammer in the basement of Fluorescent Engineering, 437 I think, about why the Power Groove was more efficient than a normal 96" T17 lamp. Gene was a big proponent of the square cross section placing the phosphor closer to the discharge, as he like to say, but there was also the increased arc length as you point out. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:45:56 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote: They do, and they were quite common at one time. One other advantage they have is that they lack separate windings providing continuous power to the filaments in the tubes so the total power consumption is several watts lower. The power savings is perhaps 1 watt per lamp and perhaps another watt in the ballast. The downside is much shorter lamp life. Rapid Start ballasts are by far the most common type of EM ballast use for 4-foot fluorescent lamps in the US. From what I've read, it's more like 3-6 watts per lamp, which if you're talking 500 lamps in a decent sized building can be somewhat significant. The power consumption in each electrode of a normal current rapid start lamps is 1 watt, or 2 watts per lamp. When you remove external electrode heat the arc voltage increases slightly and the net arc power increases by 1 watt for the same current. So, the net power reduction in the lamp is 1 watt. To get 3 to 6 watts per lamp + ballast the rapid start ballast would have to have an internal power loss of 2 to 5 watts per pair of lamp power windings, which is much too high to be reasonable. haven't looked at what it does to lamp life, but instant start is the worst for that. I don't know where you get your data by the life of preheat lamps is far worse than instant start lamps. That is one reason why preheat had virtually disappeared from the US market in favor of rapid start and instant start. Preheat remains popular only for lamps that can be run directly from the power line with a simple series inductor or resistor. For 120-volt circuits this limits lamps to 2 feet long for T12 diameter. In those location of the world where the line voltage is 220 to 240 volts, preheat and a series inductor is used with 4-foot lamps. It gets confusing too that most commercial or industrial types are specified at 10 hours per start, while residential lamps are rated for 3 hours per start. Fluorescent lamps are rated on a 3 hour on, 20 minute off cycle. This includes what might be called commercial and residential types, though there is no formal distinction between the two. You may be confused by the fact that HID lamps are rated at 10 hours per start. Lifespan drops dramatically with more frequent starting cycles. Most dramatically for preheat and instant start lamps. Less dramatically for rapid start. And for well designed programmed rapid start systems there can be virtually no loss of life. Osram sells a programmed rapid start CFL in Europe that is rated for 500,000 starts. -- Vic Roberts http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com To reply via e-mail: replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address or use e-mail address listed at the Web site. |
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quoting:
I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. The starter/glow bottle for 4 foot, 40W tubes are usually labled "FS-4" . It's generally not a good idea to use 34W tubes with preheat/switch start ballasts. You have 4 wires in the "switch", correct? For the two wires that go to the each of the tube ends, put the starter in between those. You can just wrap the wires around the prongs of the starter, and insulate with black tape. The other two wires should be the "hot" side for the ballast. Just connect those together with a nut so that the light is "on" all the time, (but will be switched externally with a timer.) How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Thanks, Sean "James Sweet" wrote in message news:gEHYd.474$mq2.225@trnddc08... "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean You can buy a glowbottle starter at any hardware store, usually under a dollar. |
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Thanks for the offer. I'm going to try and locate either a glow bottle or
another ballast the next time I am in "The Big City". I just have to be careful because the ballast has to fit into a pretty small space in the aquarium lighting unit. Thanks again for the offer. Sean. "Terry" wrote in message ... "Sean" wrote in message ... I'll try and locate a glow bottle. I live in a small town in Canada, and there is not a lot of selection in some of the local stores. I'll try Radio Shack and the local lumberyard, but I am not holding my breath. I'll have to wait until I can get down to the "Big City" and see if I can locate one there. How would I wire the glow bottle into the circuit that I described? (With the intention that the light is "always" in On mode. The timer will be taking care of turning it on and off.) Thanks, Sean "James Sweet" wrote in message news:gEHYd.474$mq2.225@trnddc08... "Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the answer. I was hoping to simply bypass the switch, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I guess I'll have to replace the ballast after all. Thanks, Sean Sean I think I've got some starters somewhere I'll see if I can find them. But if it's standard four footer tube might be simpler but a bit more expensive to use a non-starter type ballast? All the spare ballasts I got are for the two 40/34 watt type tube fixtures. Email if you wish. Another Terry. Newfoundland Canada. |
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One other question while on the topic of replacing ballasts and fluorescent
lights.... I am remodelling an empty unit to make a bookstore and they currently have about fifteen to twenty 8 foot double tube lights throughout the store. (The store is about 2500 square feet.) I am considering replacing them all with about 50% more 4 foot units. (So about 22 - 30 units.) I am considering doing this mostly due to the high price of 8' tubes and ballasts. (In this part of Canada the 4' tubes go for about $1.40, while the 8' go for about $6-$7). Also the ballasts for the 8' bulbs costs about $30, whereas I can get a whole 4' unit for about that price. ($20 for a cheaper one that will probably break down in a few years, $30 - $35 for one that will hopefully last.) So there are actually two questions: 1) Will I retain a similar amount of light from replacing those units? (I know that their will be a small drop in light, but I just wanted to know how noticeable it would be? Or should I just double the number of 8' units and achieve near the same amount of light?) 2) Is it going to be cost effective over 10 -15 years to replace all these units? (Or am I wasting a lot of money trying to avoid spending $6 - $7 on the 8' tubes and $30 on a few new ballasts to replace the 3 or 4 that are burnt out?) Thanks for reading this long post, and for any answers or suggestions. Sean. "Sean" wrote in message ... Hello, I am having some trouble rewiring a ballast. It's an older one that my wife has above her fish tank. The On/Off switch is flaky (it works about 30% of the time) so she wants to set it up on a timer to go on and off for her fish. I am trying to bypass the on/off switch, but I am having some trouble as it is an older ballast. Here's the scoop. It is a 4 foot single lamp ballast. There is the standard black and white wires, plus a blue wire. (I am used to seeing 6 wires in a 2 lamp system.) The black goes to the Power. The white goes to the right hand side of the lamp. The blue goes to the left hand side. Coming from the left side of the lamp is another black that connect to the top left of the on/off switch. The top right of the switch goes to the right side of the lamp. The bottom right of the switch goes to the other connector on the right side of the lamp. The bottom left of the switch goes back to Power. I am sorry if this is a little complicated, but that's the best I can do in writing. I figured that I should connect the black from the left side of the lamp to one of the wires on the right side of the lamp, and connect the other wire from the right side back to power. That doesn't work. (I get a very low glow from half the bulb, but it doesn't go on.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the specs on the ballast in case they are needed: 120V 60hz .55 amp Keystone Transformer Co. Cat no. M4OP 40 W Ballast. Thanks a lot! Sean. |
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quoting:
One other question while on the topic of replacing ballasts and fluorescent lights.... I am remodelling an empty unit to make a bookstore and they currently have about fifteen to twenty 8 foot double tube lights throughout the store. (The store is about 2500 square feet.) I am considering replacing them all with about 50% more 4 foot units. (So about 22 - 30 units.) I am considering doing this mostly due to the high price of 8' tubes and ballasts. (In this part of Canada the 4' tubes go for about $1.40, while the 8' go for about $6-$7). Also the ballasts for the 8' bulbs costs about $30, whereas I can get a whole 4' unit for about that price. ($20 for a cheaper one that will probably break down in a few years, $30 - $35 for one that will hopefully last.) $1.40 - is this for 34w, 40W, or T8 tubes? The local GESupply sells 34w CW tubes for about $1.30 currently, and about $2.50 for T8. 40W tubes are currently about $2.25 . 8' for $6 to $7 - Is this for 60W or 75W tubes? So there are actually two questions: 1) Will I retain a similar amount of light from replacing those units? (I know that their will be a small drop in light, but I just wanted to know how noticeable it would be? Or should I just double the number of 8' units and achieve near the same amount of light?) Things to consider: It all depends on 60W vs 75W tubes in the 8' lights now, vs T8 or 34W or 40W in the new lights. Generally, old and most new magnetic 8' ballasts light 75w tubes to nearly full rated output. Same with old and most new magnetic ballasts for 4' 40w tubes. 34w tubes start out about 15 percent lower at full rated output, but they always never light more than 94 percent of their rated output on any ballast, even if that ballast was previously lighting a 40W tube at nearly full output. The same goes for 8' 60W vs 75W tubes on same ballast. Typical T8 ballasts light T8 lamps to 88-92 percent of their rated output. You generally have to seek out ballasts that light T8 lamps to something near or over 100 percent of their rated output. 2) Is it going to be cost effective over 10 -15 years to replace all these units? (Or am I wasting a lot of money trying to avoid spending $6 - $7 on the 8' tubes and $30 on a few new ballasts to replace the 3 or 4 that are burnt out?) Thanks for reading this long post, and for any answers or suggestions. Sean. Generally, yes if you go with T8. (even better if you get ballasts that light the tubes to nearly or above their rated output.) If you ever consider saving energy with those 34W or 60W tubes - skip them. Go straight to T8. If you do decide to stay T12, just stay with 40W or 75W tubes. Don't use those 34w or 60W tubes, they are rather poor. BTW, did you read my post about fixing your fish tank light? |
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"Sean" wrote in message ... One other question while on the topic of replacing ballasts and fluorescent lights.... I am remodelling an empty unit to make a bookstore and they currently have about fifteen to twenty 8 foot double tube lights throughout the store. (The store is about 2500 square feet.) I am considering replacing them all with about 50% more 4 foot units. (So about 22 - 30 units.) I am considering doing this mostly due to the high price of 8' tubes and ballasts. (In this part of Canada the 4' tubes go for about $1.40, while the 8' go for about $6-$7). Also the ballasts for the 8' bulbs costs about $30, whereas I can get a whole 4' unit for about that price. ($20 for a cheaper one that will probably break down in a few years, $30 - $35 for one that will hopefully last.) So there are actually two questions: 1) Will I retain a similar amount of light from replacing those units? (I know that their will be a small drop in light, but I just wanted to know how noticeable it would be? Or should I just double the number of 8' units and achieve near the same amount of light?) 2) Is it going to be cost effective over 10 -15 years to replace all these units? (Or am I wasting a lot of money trying to avoid spending $6 - $7 on the 8' tubes and $30 on a few new ballasts to replace the 3 or 4 that are burnt out?) Thanks for reading this long post, and for any answers or suggestions. Sean. SNIP Sean. It sounds like there are some other questions that ought to be asked. Don't you want to know: 1. What kind of lighting should I have to sell the most books? 2. How can I get that lighting for the least cost over the next 10-15 years? Given that you're thinking about cost effectiveness over the next 10-15 years, it isn't the tube cost or even the fixture cost that is going to impact you over time; it's the cost of energy (even if you have a 5 cent hydro rate). For every dollar you spend for lighting over those years, 90 cents or more will be for electricity and that includes the cost of lamps, fixtures and even the cost of money should you have to borrow to install the lighting. At least go to a local electrical distributor and talk to the lighting specialist (call around until you find a distributor that has one). As a business, you should get at least a contractor price on lamps and fixtures. Or consider hiring a lighting designer to do the job. It's a rare designer who can't save your his/her fee on a job like this just by recommending the most cost effective solution. Terry McGowan |
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Sean wrote:
One other question while on the topic of replacing ballasts and fluorescent lights.... I am remodelling an empty unit to make a bookstore and they currently have about fifteen to twenty 8 foot double tube lights throughout the store. (The store is about 2500 square feet.) I am considering replacing them all with about 50% more 4 foot units. (So about 22 - 30 units.) Here, Britain, 8' tubes are mostly 125w, with some being 100w. Presumably youve got 60w 8'. Basically the longer the tube, the better the efficiency. I am considering doing this mostly due to the high price of 8' tubes and ballasts. .... you have all the 8' ballasts already, no extra spend needed. Re tubes, they last long enough for there to be no hurry, if you have anough that work now. (In this part of Canada the 4' tubes go for about $1.40, while the 8' go for about $6-$7). Also the ballasts for the 8' bulbs costs about $30, whereas I can get a whole 4' unit for about that price. ($20 for a cheaper one that will probably break down in a few years, $30 - $35 for one that will hopefully last.) So there are actually two questions: 1) Will I retain a similar amount of light from replacing those units? (I know that their will be a small drop in light, but I just wanted to know how noticeable it would be? Or should I just double the number of 8' units and achieve near the same amount of light?) 2) Is it going to be cost effective over 10 -15 years to replace all these units? (Or am I wasting a lot of money trying to avoid spending $6 - $7 on the 8' tubes and $30 on a few new ballasts to replace the 3 or 4 that are burnt out?) Thats the impression I get, but do the numbers. What does it cost you to fix he few 8'ers and provide tubes, what does it cost for 4'... I'd look at just replacing a small number with 4', just as needed, but do it in one area to ensuer it looks decent, using the good 8' lamps in that area to repair or replace the dead ones elsewhere. NT |
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"Sean" wrote in message ... Thanks for the offer. I'm going to try and locate either a glow bottle or another ballast the next time I am in "The Big City". I just have to be careful because the ballast has to fit into a pretty small space in the aquarium lighting unit. If you can find the ones with the electronic ballast (Shop Lights) they are TINY. N |
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