Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old January 27th 20, 03:04 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
J-J J-J is offline
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

Picked up a 1972 Taylor barograph. This is a weather instrument with an
electronic rotating drum. On the drum is taped a chart and, in
combination with a "pen" (of sorts), barometric pressure is recorded.
After a week, the charts are removed and replaced with a fresh one.

I picked this up surplus with the hopes of reselling, but I am having
trouble with two things: 1) sourcing a *cheap* slow drying ink, and 2)
possible pen woes.

I'm posting here because the rotating drum is, after all, electronic.
In other words, it does not use a wind up key, but electronic mechanism
and initial tests show that at least it appears to be rotating correctly
and on time.

However, just for testing, I cannot seem to find a low cost slow drying
ink. There is "barograph ink", but it is quite expensive for a tiny
amount. I know there must be alternative slow drying inks out there
with different names at less cost that might be suitable. Any
suggestions would be welcome here.

Another thing I want to work on is the pen. The original is a tiny,
triangular shaped stainless steel reservoir. A drop of ink is placed in
the reservoir and this lasts until empty. There are alternative "pens"
that are felt tipped, require no ink, and last up to two years... but
again expensive. I'm wondering if I might be able to modify or use a
standard felt pen from the store somehow in this application. Further
suggestions appreciated.

Thank you,
JJ



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Old January 27th 20, 03:22 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On Monday, 27 January 2020 14:04:16 UTC, J-J wrote:
Picked up a 1972 Taylor barograph. This is a weather instrument with an
electronic rotating drum. On the drum is taped a chart and, in
combination with a "pen" (of sorts), barometric pressure is recorded.
After a week, the charts are removed and replaced with a fresh one.

I picked this up surplus with the hopes of reselling, but I am having
trouble with two things: 1) sourcing a *cheap* slow drying ink, and 2)
possible pen woes.

I'm posting here because the rotating drum is, after all, electronic.
In other words, it does not use a wind up key, but electronic mechanism
and initial tests show that at least it appears to be rotating correctly
and on time.

However, just for testing, I cannot seem to find a low cost slow drying
ink. There is "barograph ink", but it is quite expensive for a tiny
amount. I know there must be alternative slow drying inks out there
with different names at less cost that might be suitable. Any
suggestions would be welcome here.

Another thing I want to work on is the pen. The original is a tiny,
triangular shaped stainless steel reservoir. A drop of ink is placed in
the reservoir and this lasts until empty. There are alternative "pens"
that are felt tipped, require no ink, and last up to two years... but
again expensive. I'm wondering if I might be able to modify or use a
standard felt pen from the store somehow in this application. Further
suggestions appreciated.

Thank you,
JJ


The first question is what inky materials do you have on hand? If you can dissolve one in oil, paraffin, diesel or any mixture of those, great. Last time I did this I was using printer's ink plus paraffin. Inks applied in small enough amounts don't need to dry at all, the liquid part just soaks into the paper.

I doubt an ordinary felt tip would work. You could sleeve the tip in plastic to try it, but I'm not optimistic. Most likely it'll run into the paper, and the paper will tear.

Oh, I remember an ink experiment ... vegetable oil & powder toner. Soot is also usable but not nearly as convenient, as there is the issue of particle size.

Anyway, why not use a biro?


NT
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Old January 27th 20, 07:52 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 09:04:11 -0500, J-J wrote:

Picked up a 1972 Taylor barograph.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Taylor+barograph&tbm=isch

However, just for testing, I cannot seem to find a low cost slow drying
ink. There is "barograph ink", but it is quite expensive for a tiny
amount. I know there must be alternative slow drying inks out there
with different names at less cost that might be suitable. Any
suggestions would be welcome here.


Rubber stamp pad refill ink should work. It would not do to have the
stamp pad dry out prematurely.
https://www.staples.com/stamp+pad+ink/directory_stamp%2520pad%2520ink
Basically, you need an ink that will not dry out in less time needed
for the drum to rotate one full revolution. Graphing barometers are
available at varying rotation speeds. The most common is
1 rev = 1 week, but is also available in 1 day and 1 month per
revolution.

Mo
https://www.metcheck.co.uk/collections/barograph-pens-and-ink
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/47798-chart-recorder-ink-options/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barograph-Thermograph-Recording-Ink-Slow-Dry-Dark-Blue-5oz-15ml-/123902459872
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/barograph-instrument-recording-pen-276775650
etc...

Another thing I want to work on is the pen. The original is a tiny,
triangular shaped stainless steel reservoir. A drop of ink is placed in
the reservoir and this lasts until empty.


Forget about changing the type of pen. The arm and pen are part of a
carefully balanced mechanism. If you add or reduce weight on the arm,
you will need to rebalance the mechanism. A drop of ink in the pen is
about as light a pen as could be easily contrived. I would continue
to use it.

There are alternative "pens"
that are felt tipped, require no ink, and last up to two years... but
again expensive. I'm wondering if I might be able to modify or use a
standard felt pen from the store somehow in this application. Further
suggestions appreciated.


Sorry. I haven't tried replacing the stock ink well and have no plans
on trying to do so.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old January 27th 20, 11:50 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:52:14 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Mo
https://www.metcheck.co.uk/collections/barograph-pens-and-ink
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/47798-chart-recorder-ink-options/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barograph-Thermograph-Recording-Ink-Slow-Dry-Dark-Blue-5oz-15ml-/123902459872
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/barograph-instrument-recording-pen-276775650
etc...


More of the same:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=recording+instrument+ink
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=barograph+recording+ink+slow+dry
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ink-Universal-Bristols-Recorder-Ink-Waterbury-CT-Recording-Instrument-Ink/392645088431
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old January 28th 20, 12:20 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 14:50:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:52:14 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Mo
https://www.metcheck.co.uk/collections/barograph-pens-and-ink
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/47798-chart-recorder-ink-options/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barograph-Thermograph-Recording-Ink-Slow-Dry-Dark-Blue-5oz-15ml-/123902459872
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/barograph-instrument-recording-pen-276775650
etc...


More of the same:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=recording+instrument+ink
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=barograph+recording+ink+slow+dry
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ink-Universal-Bristols-Recorder-Ink-Waterbury-CT-Recording-Instrument-Ink/392645088431


One mo
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barograph-or-Instrument-recording-pen-for-use-with-ink/143313378165
Note the comment on felt tip pens causing pen drag and slowing
response time.

To make a slow dry ink, I would guess that the ink should be high
viscosity so that it doesn't drip or run. It should also be high
surface tension to slow evaporation. The high surface tension is easy
enough by adding a few drops of a wetting agent such as Kodak Photo
Flo 200:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195-REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html
I don't know how to increase viscosity. Maybe add some more pigment
or solids.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


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Old January 28th 20, 12:40 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

In article ,
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

To make a slow dry ink, I would guess that the ink should be high
viscosity so that it doesn't drip or run. It should also be high
surface tension to slow evaporation. The high surface tension is easy
enough by adding a few drops of a wetting agent such as Kodak Photo
Flo 200:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195-REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html


As I recall (and as that page states), Photo Flo is a surfactant,
which _reduces_ the surface tension of the water. This makes it
easier for the water to "wet" the surfaces to which it's applied. The
water spreads out more quickly and (as the page says) "promote[s]
faster, more uniform drying."

Probably not what you want, if you want ink to stay liquid.
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Old January 28th 20, 01:33 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 15:40:47 -0800, (Dave
Platt) wrote:

In article ,
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

To make a slow dry ink, I would guess that the ink should be high
viscosity so that it doesn't drip or run. It should also be high
surface tension to slow evaporation. The high surface tension is easy
enough by adding a few drops of a wetting agent such as Kodak Photo
Flo 200:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195-REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html


As I recall (and as that page states), Photo Flo is a surfactant,
which _reduces_ the surface tension of the water. This makes it
easier for the water to "wet" the surfaces to which it's applied. The
water spreads out more quickly and (as the page says) "promote[s]
faster, more uniform drying."

Probably not what you want, if you want ink to stay liquid.


Oops. Surfactants and wetting agents are used to reduce evaporation
is correct. However, mangled everything else. To reduce evaporation,
surface tension should be lowered, not raised. Surfactants and
wetting agents lower surface tension. Adding Photo Flo to the ink
will still reduce evaporation, but not in the manner that I originally
described.

Study of Surface Tension, Natural Evaporation, and Subcooled
Boiling Evaporation of Aqueous Surfactant Solutions
https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1304&context=edt

Of course, nothing is simple:

Surface Tension and Evaporation
https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/61813/surface-tension-and-evaporation

--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old January 28th 20, 01:01 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 09:04:11 -0500, J-J wrote:

However, just for testing, I cannot seem to find a low cost slow drying
ink. There is "barograph ink", but it is quite expensive for a tiny
amount. I know there must be alternative slow drying inks out there
with different names at less cost that might be suitable. Any
suggestions would be welcome here.


I used a barograph when I was at school 60 years ago. The ink was
water based and fed to a metal stylus through a flexible plastic tube.
The tube occasionally got blocked. I just blew down the tube to clear
it out. It made a blob on the chart. The ink didn't dry. It just
soaked into the paper.

Steve

--
http://www.npsnn.com

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Old January 30th 20, 06:18 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
J-J J-J is offline
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Default weather instrument barograph ink resource and pen modification?

On 1/27/20 1:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 09:04:11 -0500, J-J wrote:

Picked up a 1972 Taylor barograph.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Taylor+barograph&tbm=isch

However, just for testing, I cannot seem to find a low cost slow drying
ink. There is "barograph ink", but it is quite expensive for a tiny
amount. I know there must be alternative slow drying inks out there
with different names at less cost that might be suitable. Any
suggestions would be welcome here.


Rubber stamp pad refill ink should work. It would not do to have the
stamp pad dry out prematurely.
https://www.staples.com/stamp+pad+ink/directory_stamp%2520pad%2520ink


Sorry to say that this ink isn't working. I filled the little
triangular reservoir to the brim and even after a full night, although
the drum and chart have rotated, nothing on the paper.

Basically, you need an ink that will not dry out in less time needed
for the drum to rotate one full revolution. Graphing barometers are
available at varying rotation speeds. The most common is
1 rev = 1 week, but is also available in 1 day and 1 month per
revolution.

Mo
https://www.metcheck.co.uk/collections/barograph-pens-and-ink
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/47798-chart-recorder-ink-options/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barograph-Thermograph-Recording-Ink-Slow-Dry-Dark-Blue-5oz-15ml-/123902459872
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/barograph-instrument-recording-pen-276775650
etc...


I appreciate these, but the problem is that they are expensive for just
tiny amounts. The hope was to try this unit out for a week to make sure
it works, then put it up for resale. I suppose if I have no choice,
I'll have to go this way though.


Another thing I want to work on is the pen. The original is a tiny,
triangular shaped stainless steel reservoir. A drop of ink is placed in
the reservoir and this lasts until empty.


Forget about changing the type of pen. The arm and pen are part of a
carefully balanced mechanism. If you add or reduce weight on the arm,
you will need to rebalance the mechanism. A drop of ink in the pen is
about as light a pen as could be easily contrived. I would continue
to use it.

There are alternative "pens"
that are felt tipped, require no ink, and last up to two years... but
again expensive. I'm wondering if I might be able to modify or use a
standard felt pen from the store somehow in this application. Further
suggestions appreciated.


Sorry. I haven't tried replacing the stock ink well and have no plans
on trying to do so.


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