"How corrosion inhibitors protect metal: synthesis in
the lab and testing"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRrP3sqQLw (23:01)

This video isn't really about DeOxit but does offer a good clue as to
the formulation and how it works. The video does a better job of
explaining what's happening than I could, so I won't repeat much of
its contents.

He mentions that his inspiration came from this patent:
"Corrosion inhibited lubricant composition"
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4193882

Note that Camolin Red, the predecessor of DeOxit, shows 5% oleic acid
and 95% "volatile hydrocarbons and propellant". I had been assuming
that the hydrocarbons were just mineral oil or something similar.
Apparently not. I'm also assuming that the steel corrosion protection
that DeOxit shows in the video, also applies to copper wire and silver
plated contacts.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

It's like 2:00 AM and I can't play videos right now because every time I do they come up with a big BOOM and I am waiting for it to happen and the others come and say "Did you blow off a gun in the house ?". One time I plugged in a preamp that had DC on the output and when I switched to it the thud was like, you would think like maybe a big bookshelf got tipped on the floor or some ****.

Anyway, what makes Deoxit Deoxit is the reducer. It is a very small part of the contents but the part that really does the work. I do not know which component it is. It actually takes the oxygen out of the metal.

Now if you can get that stuff to forever be on the metal I imagine it would be really protected. Some sort of non-volatile grease, but I don't know if it is oil soluble.

If I were so inclined I would do a little research and find out exactly how a reducer works, what they are, their properties and all that but rally, I have enough going on. There has to be someone around here who knows more. If not maybe we have to go find somewhere else.

Yeah I am interested but I am not willing to spend a week on it.

Jeff Urban wrote:
It's like 2:00 AM and I can't play videos right now because every time I
do they come up with a big BOOM and I am waiting for it to happen and the
others come and say "Did you blow off a gun in the house ?". One time I
plugged in a preamp that had DC on the output and when I switched to it
the thud was like, you would think like maybe a big bookshelf got tipped
on the floor or some ****.

Anyway, what makes Deoxit Deoxit is the reducer. It is a very small part
of the contents but the part that really does the work. I do not know
which component it is. It actually takes the oxygen out of the metal.

Now if you can get that stuff to forever be on the metal I imagine it
would be really protected. Some sort of non-volatile grease, but I don't
know if it is oil soluble.

If I were so inclined I would do a little research and find out exactly
how a reducer works, what they are, their properties and all that but
rally, I have enough going on. There has to be someone around here who
knows more. If not maybe we have to go find somewhere else.

Yeah I am interested but I am not willing to spend a week on it.

Cramolin Red did not first come in spray. Just like 100% Deoxit D100. I'll
look at that video, but can't on this old tablet.

Greg

gregz wrote:
Jeff Urban wrote:
It's like 2:00 AM and I can't play videos right now because every time I
do they come up with a big BOOM and I am waiting for it to happen and the
others come and say "Did you blow off a gun in the house ?". One time I
plugged in a preamp that had DC on the output and when I switched to it
the thud was like, you would think like maybe a big bookshelf got tipped
on the floor or some ****.

Anyway, what makes Deoxit Deoxit is the reducer. It is a very small part
of the contents but the part that really does the work. I do not know
which component it is. It actually takes the oxygen out of the metal.

Now if you can get that stuff to forever be on the metal I imagine it
would be really protected. Some sort of non-volatile grease, but I don't
know if it is oil soluble.

If I were so inclined I would do a little research and find out exactly
how a reducer works, what they are, their properties and all that but
rally, I have enough going on. There has to be someone around here who
knows more. If not maybe we have to go find somewhere else.

Yeah I am interested but I am not willing to spend a week on it.

Cramolin Red did not first come in spray. Just like 100% Deoxit D100. I'll
look at that video, but can't on this old tablet.

Greg

In watching the video, I was wondering how the Rtv acedic acid reacted with
steel. I coated and removed cured rtv from copper sheet, no corrosion.

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.

Greg

In article -
september.org, says...

In watching the video, I was wondering how the Rtv acedic acid reacted with
steel. I coated and removed cured rtv from copper sheet, no corrosion.

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.




There are several types of RTV. Some have the acedic acid and eats
copper, and some does not have the acid and is fone with copper.

On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 4:14:18 AM UTC-4, GS wrote:

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.

"Silver Paper" has been around since the 1800s, invented/developed in England when burning high-sulphur coal was common both for heat and for "town gas" that powered street lights. In that environment the "Plate" would tarnish almost overnight, requiring dedicated servants for its maintenance.

Still around today:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Anti-Tarni.../dp/B00O89A21Q

As a related 'aside', fine silver is much more resistant to tarnish than Sterling or Plate-silver. So drinking vessels and those made to serve food typically had a fine-silver wash on the contact surface.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 08:14:16 -0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

In watching the video, I was wondering how the Rtv acedic acid reacted with
steel. I coated and removed cured rtv from copper sheet, no corrosion.

"Can acetic acid dissolve steel?"
https://www.quora.com/Can-acetic-acid-dissolve-steel

"What are the products of acetic acid and copper?"
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-products-of-acetic-acid-and-copper

Any mild acid (including oleic acid) will remove the oxide layer from
copper. However, if left on the copper contacts, it will eventually
corrode the copper. This is the label from a bottle of Cramolin red,
from when it contained oleic acid:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Cramolin%20R-100L/index.html
"Wipe off excess with a lint-free cloth or swab."

Ancient Cramolin R100L MSDS data:
http://store.caig.com/core/media/media.nl?id=808&c=ACCT113328&h=3f8d8512c835e9a69f6 4&whence=
Mentions "mineral oil" twice.

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.

That's tarnish (sulfur compounds). Some clues from how to clean brass
clock mechanisms:
https://www.snclocks.com/TechnicalInformation/Tid-Bits/Clock-Cleaning-Solution/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article -
september.org, says...

In watching the video, I was wondering how the Rtv acedic acid reacted with
steel. I coated and removed cured rtv from copper sheet, no corrosion.

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.




There are several types of RTV. Some have the acedic acid and eats
copper, and some does not have the acid and is fone with copper.

I used acedic type. I don't know what remnants remain. The smell goes away.

Greg

Yes.
BTW, Im one of many, many stupid, slow, never-should-have-been-allowed-into-college liberal arts majors. Also, Im a former east-coast union electrician helper. So youll have to excuse me when I ask you: what does €˜acedic mean?

On 2019/06/28 2:55 p.m., wrote:
Yes.
BTW, Im one of many, many stupid, slow, never-should-have-been-allowed-into-college liberal arts majors. Also, Im a former east-coast union electrician helper. So youll have to excuse me when I ask you: what does €˜acedic mean?


Acidic - vinegar based solvent. It was miss-speled.

John ;-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 6/20/2019 5:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 08:14:16 -0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

In watching the video, I was wondering how the Rtv acedic acid reacted with
steel. I coated and removed cured rtv from copper sheet, no corrosion.

"Can acetic acid dissolve steel?"
https://www.quora.com/Can-acetic-acid-dissolve-steel

"What are the products of acetic acid and copper?"
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-products-of-acetic-acid-and-copper

Any mild acid (including oleic acid) will remove the oxide layer from
copper. However, if left on the copper contacts, it will eventually
corrode the copper. This is the label from a bottle of Cramolin red,
from when it contained oleic acid:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Cramolin%20R-100L/index.html
"Wipe off excess with a lint-free cloth or swab."

Ancient Cramolin R100L MSDS data:
http://store.caig.com/core/media/media.nl?id=808&c=ACCT113328&h=3f8d8512c835e9a69f6 4&whence=
Mentions "mineral oil" twice.

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.

That's tarnish (sulfur compounds). Some clues from how to clean brass
clock mechanisms:
https://www.snclocks.com/TechnicalInformation/Tid-Bits/Clock-Cleaning-Solution/

All very interesting and ties into my latest purchase. I bought a
metal brake to bend flashing in my house. It came coated in oil, which I
removed just by wiping with a paper towel, because it was so messy.
Within two days in my screened porch it started to rust. So while I'm
not using it, I used motor oil on a paper towel to re-oil the metal
surfaces.
This will be a rarely used tool, and will be stored in my non-climate
controlled outdoor shed.

How do I best protect the surface

Ditto, my new drill press!.

Mikek

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:20:10 -0500, amdx wrote:

All very interesting and ties into my latest purchase. I bought a
metal brake to bend flashing in my house. It came coated in oil, which I
removed just by wiping with a paper towel, because it was so messy.
Within two days in my screened porch it started to rust. So while I'm
not using it, I used motor oil on a paper towel to re-oil the metal
surfaces.
This will be a rarely used tool, and will be stored in my non-climate
controlled outdoor shed.
How do I best protect the surface
Ditto, my new drill press!.
Mikek

Motor oil might work. I've never tried it. I use automotive grease
on my drill press. Just about any grease or liquid wax that doesn't
run, melt, or wash off should work. I've also used liquid furniture
wax.

There are a wide variety of marine corrosion protection sprays and
pastes available.
https://www.theruststore.com/Protect-Your-Boat-from-Rust-W39.aspx
https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Prevention-C4.aspx

Also, automotive rust inhibitors:
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-heavy-duty-anti-rust-in-amber.html

WD-40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor:
https://www.wd40specialist.com/products/corrosion-inhibitor/
https://antonpug.com/blog/2015/5/11/diy-rust-protection-test

You might search or ask the same question on:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/
The forum is mostly about CNC machines, but also covers other aspects
of machining. For example:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/86146-rust-prevention.html



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:20:10 -0500, amdx wrote:

This will be a rarely used tool, and will be stored in my non-climate
controlled outdoor shed.

How do I best protect the surface

Rust is caused by oxygen and an electrolyte, which is usually water.

To keep oxygen and water away from the metal, cover the bare metal
surfaces with something so that the oxygen and water do not come into
contact with the metal. On a tool where the bare metal surfaces need
to stay bare, paint will not work. A layer of oil is often a good
option. Oil evaporates slowly, clings well to the metal and is
relatively easy to wipe off before use.

With metal objects that are kept at outdoor temperature, condensation
is the main problem (unless you leave it out in the rain). Metal has a
relatively high heat capacity, so when the weather changes from cold
and dry to warm and humid, the metal stays cold for a while, causing
condensation. If you can keep your tool slightly warmer than the
outside air, you will greatly reduce condensation and therefore
rusting. You don't need climate control. You only need to keep it
somewhat warm.
--
RoRo

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:20:10 -0500, amdx wrote:

All very interesting and ties into my latest purchase. I bought a
metal brake to bend flashing in my house. It came coated in oil, which I
removed just by wiping with a paper towel, because it was so messy.
Within two days in my screened porch it started to rust. So while I'm
not using it, I used motor oil on a paper towel to re-oil the metal
surfaces.
This will be a rarely used tool, and will be stored in my non-climate
controlled outdoor shed.
How do I best protect the surface
Ditto, my new drill press!.
Mikek

Motor oil might work. I've never tried it. I use automotive grease
on my drill press. Just about any grease or liquid wax that doesn't
run, melt, or wash off should work. I've also used liquid furniture
wax.

There are a wide variety of marine corrosion protection sprays and
pastes available.
https://www.theruststore.com/Protect-Your-Boat-from-Rust-W39.aspx
https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Prevention-C4.aspx

Also, automotive rust inhibitors:
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-heavy-duty-anti-rust-in-amber.html

WD-40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor:
https://www.wd40specialist.com/products/corrosion-inhibitor/
https://antonpug.com/blog/2015/5/11/diy-rust-protection-test

You might search or ask the same question on:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/
The forum is mostly about CNC machines, but also covers other aspects
of machining. For example:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/86146-rust-prevention.html



Been a long time since I used it, LPS3 dries waxy. I hardly ever see LPS
1,2,3 in stores.

Greg

On 7/1/19 3:12 AM, gregz wrote:
Been a long time since I used it, LPS3 dries waxy. I hardly ever see LPS
1,2,3 in stores.

That's because they only stock what sells.
And what sells to the knuckle dragging morons is WD-40.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

In article ,
gregz wrote:

Within two days in my screened porch it started to rust. So while I'm
not using it, I used motor oil on a paper towel to re-oil the metal
surfaces.
This will be a rarely used tool, and will be stored in my non-climate
controlled outdoor shed.
How do I best protect the surface
Ditto, my new drill press!.

There are a wide variety of marine corrosion protection sprays and
pastes available.
https://www.theruststore.com/Protect-Your-Boat-from-Rust-W39.aspx
https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Prevention-C4.aspx

Also, automotive rust inhibitors:
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-heavy-duty-anti-rust-in-amber.html

http://www.corrosionx.com/ has a bunch of anti-rust/corrosion products
of this sort. They speak proudly of their special "polar bonding"
technology, but the safety sheet doesn't mention any ingredients other
than mineral oil and hydrotreated neutral base oil. I haven't tried
this stuff myself.

For the non-working surfaces of metal tools, you might want to
consider an old woodworker's trick - wipe them with some pure tung
oil. This is a "drying" oil - it polymerizes on contact with air and
forms a solid film, which (from what I've read) is quite a good
moisture and water-vapor barrier. I don't think it has any specific
oxidation-blocking chemistry (such as Jeff referred to) so it's a good
idea to de-rust the surfaces before you coat with tung oil.

I've treated some hand tools by first cleaning up the rust with a
phosphoric acid dip/wipe (rinsing well afterwards) and then wiping on
some tung oil. A thin coat will "dry" (polymerize) within a day or
two, and the coating on those tool surfaces has held up well in
storage.

Note that this is pure tung oil I'm referring to - not one of the
commercial "tung oil" varnishes, which often contain little or no tung
oil.

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:09:40 -0700, (Dave
Platt) wrote:

For the non-working surfaces of metal tools, you might want to
consider an old woodworker's trick - wipe them with some pure tung
oil. This is a "drying" oil - it polymerizes on contact with air and
forms a solid film, which (from what I've read) is quite a good
moisture and water-vapor barrier. I don't think it has any specific
oxidation-blocking chemistry (such as Jeff referred to) so it's a good
idea to de-rust the surfaces before you coat with tung oil.

I've treated some hand tools by first cleaning up the rust with a
phosphoric acid dip/wipe (rinsing well afterwards) and then wiping on
some tung oil. A thin coat will "dry" (polymerize) within a day or
two, and the coating on those tool surfaces has held up well in
storage.

Note that this is pure tung oil I'm referring to - not one of the
commercial "tung oil" varnishes, which often contain little or no tung
oil.

Well, if tung oil works for you, then boiled linseed oil should also
work:
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/flexner-on-finishing-blog/comparing-linseed-oil-and-tung-oil/
I haven't tried either.

If you can tolerate something that coats the surface and hardens in
place, then any of the conformal PCB coating sprays (acrylic,
urethane, wax, etc) should work. Some have UV tracers built in so you
can see if you missed anything.

Anything that blocks moisture, stays in place, doesn't wash away, and
doesn't feed the fungus, should work. For me, that's common
automotive grease, especially the types intended for marine use, which
needs to be waterproof.
https://www.google.com/search?q=marine+grease&tbm=isch







--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:09:40 -0700, (Dave
Platt) wrote:

For the non-working surfaces of metal tools, you might want to
consider an old woodworker's trick - wipe them with some pure tung
oil. This is a "drying" oil - it polymerizes on contact with air and
forms a solid film, which (from what I've read) is quite a good
moisture and water-vapor barrier. I don't think it has any specific
oxidation-blocking chemistry (such as Jeff referred to) so it's a good
idea to de-rust the surfaces before you coat with tung oil.

I've treated some hand tools by first cleaning up the rust with a
phosphoric acid dip/wipe (rinsing well afterwards) and then wiping on
some tung oil. A thin coat will "dry" (polymerize) within a day or
two, and the coating on those tool surfaces has held up well in
storage.

Note that this is pure tung oil I'm referring to - not one of the
commercial "tung oil" varnishes, which often contain little or no tung
oil.

Well, if tung oil works for you, then boiled linseed oil should also
work:
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/flexner-on-finishing-blog/comparing-linseed-oil-and-tung-oil/
I haven't tried either.

If you can tolerate something that coats the surface and hardens in
place, then any of the conformal PCB coating sprays (acrylic,
urethane, wax, etc) should work. Some have UV tracers built in so you
can see if you missed anything.

Anything that blocks moisture, stays in place, doesn't wash away, and
doesn't feed the fungus, should work. For me, that's common
automotive grease, especially the types intended for marine use, which
needs to be waterproof.
https://www.google.com/search?q=marine+grease&tbm=isch




Been using Boiled Linseed oil for years in automotive rustproofing. It
dries after a bit of smelly period. Also trying Fluidfilm for rustproofing.
Kinda stays moist. lanolin. Long term results not in yet.

Greg

The only thing I knew for sure was minium (lead oxyde), an orange liquid.
And then a layer of painting of your choice for aspect.
But I'm not sure tu use of minium is allowed today due to lead.
It was greatly efficient;

gregz a écrit le 20/06/2019 Ã* 10:14Â*:
gregz wrote:
Jeff Urban wrote:
It's like 2:00 AM and I can't play videos right now because every time I
do they come up with a big BOOM and I am waiting for it to happen and the
others come and say "Did you blow off a gun in the house ?". One time I
plugged in a preamp that had DC on the output and when I switched to it
the thud was like, you would think like maybe a big bookshelf got tipped
on the floor or some ****.

Anyway, what makes Deoxit Deoxit is the reducer. It is a very small part
of the contents but the part that really does the work. I do not know
which component it is. It actually takes the oxygen out of the metal.

Now if you can get that stuff to forever be on the metal I imagine it
would be really protected. Some sort of non-volatile grease, but I don't
know if it is oil soluble.

If I were so inclined I would do a little research and find out exactly
how a reducer works, what they are, their properties and all that but
rally, I have enough going on. There has to be someone around here who
knows more. If not maybe we have to go find somewhere else.

Yeah I am interested but I am not willing to spend a week on it.
Cramolin Red did not first come in spray. Just like 100% Deoxit D100. I'll
look at that video, but can't on this old tablet.

Greg
In watching the video, I was wondering how the Rtv acedic acid reacted with
steel. I coated and removed cured rtv from copper sheet, no corrosion.

Whatever it was, I removed old NOS stuff like silver plated switches.
Around the switch was a piece of paper looking sheet. One side said towards
part. Any part sticking out of paper had turned black. I still have some
pads to stick inside sensitive equipment said to protect. Never tried them.

Greg

Been a long time since I used it, LPS3 dries waxy. I hardly ever see LPS 1,2,3 in stores.

I never see it. Best place I found to get it is Zoro, their discount kicks in low, maybe 6 cans or whatever, or was that free shipping ? I got LPS2 there, I was specifically looking for 2 so that is what I got and I didn't "go shopping". I don't know if they have 3 or 1.

I don't like their new cans though. The old ones you used to be able to throttle. Now it gushes out and shoots across the room. (if you got the right tube on it, not supplied) And now I lost my syringe somewhere and I no longer know any diabetics. I work on vintage audio and sometimes you have to clean the tuning cap, but only where the contacts are, not all over. If it gets all over the plates it doesn't matter right now because it is electrically inert. But the dust it may attract maybe not, then it throws off the alignment and will continue to do so.

Same with using it on pots, no matter what you don't want that stuff dripping out of it. In the aerospace industry, which uses it, dripping is sometimes good. And the smell is not going anywhere for months. The smell, well it is not worse than WD-40 but it lasts longer. Some people use WD-40 but I won't. It is not the worst but as long as I can get LPS I'll use that.

That's because they only stock what sells.
And what sells to the knuckle dragging morons is WD-40.

What I would like to see is some residue free plastic friendly solvent. I was getting this stuff called Ideal locally. By the smell it is alcohol based, but it works well and wrecks nothing.

But of course just like everything I like or want in this world the discontinued it. Grr. Really, you don't have time to read the list.

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 19:43:13 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Urban
wrote:

Been a long time since I used it, LPS3 dries waxy. I hardly ever see LPS 1,2,3 in stores.

I never see it. Best place I found to get it is Zoro, their discount kicks in low, maybe 6 cans or whatever, or was that free shipping ? I got LPS2 there, I was specifically looking for 2 so that is what I got and I didn't "go shopping". I don't know if they have 3 or 1.

I don't like their new cans though. The old ones you used to be able to throttle. Now it gushes out and shoots across the room. (if you got the right tube on it, not supplied) And now I lost my syringe somewhere and I no longer know any diabetics. I work on vintage audio and sometimes you have to clean the tuning cap, but only where the contacts are, not all over. If it gets all over the plates it doesn't matter right now because it is electrically inert. But the dust it may attract maybe not, then it throws off the alignment and will continue to do so.

Same with using it on pots, no matter what you don't want that stuff dripping out of it. In the aerospace industry, which uses it, dripping is sometimes good. And the smell is not going anywhere for months. The smell, well it is not worse than WD-40 but it lasts longer. Some people use WD-40 but I won't. It is not the worst but as long as I can get LPS I'll use that.
When I want syringes I just go to the drug store and ask. In WA state
this is not illegal. Sometimes I get 'em with needles when I need
really pinpoint application. I had a diabetic cat and would buy the
insulin and syringes without a prescription.
Eric