All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine
that works. All it needs to do is...
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

We made a smoke machine to work on a friend's kid's old bimmer but the
smoke machine we made failed to generate enough smoke. And now I need a
smoke machine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke2.jpg.html

It seems so simple, and yes, we've seen the "cigar in a can" and "burning
rags in a can" videos but they all have problems of not generating enough
smoke for a long enough period of time.

Our machine generates smoke for a long time but not enough smoke!
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke7.jpg.html

It's 3 holes in a new paint can with glycerin in a soup can inside.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke3.jpg.html

The top has a 12VDC diesel glow plug which gets red hot. It is stuck into
the glycerin in a soup can. That generates the smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke5.jpg.html

We push that smoke out regulated at about 3 psi with an air gun mounted on
the side.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke8.jpg.html

There's just not enough smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke9.jpg.html

Do you know what fluid would generate more non-sticky smoke?
Or do you know of a hundred dollar smoke machine that can do the two thing?
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

On 12/15/2017 10:14 AM, Arthur Wood wrote:
All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine
that works. All it needs to do is...
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

We made a smoke machine to work on a friend's kid's old bimmer but the
smoke machine we made failed to generate enough smoke. And now I need a
smoke machine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke2.jpg.html

It seems so simple, and yes, we've seen the "cigar in a can" and "burning
rags in a can" videos but they all have problems of not generating enough
smoke for a long enough period of time.

Our machine generates smoke for a long time but not enough smoke!
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke7.jpg.html

It's 3 holes in a new paint can with glycerin in a soup can inside.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke3.jpg.html

The top has a 12VDC diesel glow plug which gets red hot. It is stuck into
the glycerin in a soup can. That generates the smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke5.jpg.html

We push that smoke out regulated at about 3 psi with an air gun mounted on
the side.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke8.jpg.html

There's just not enough smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke9.jpg.html

Do you know what fluid would generate more non-sticky smoke?
Or do you know of a hundred dollar smoke machine that can do the two thing?
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
https://hobbs-eo.com

trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. Seems you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?

Arthur Wood posted for all of us...



All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine
that works. All it needs to do is...
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

We made a smoke machine to work on a friend's kid's old bimmer but the
smoke machine we made failed to generate enough smoke. And now I need a
smoke machine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke2.jpg.html

It seems so simple, and yes, we've seen the "cigar in a can" and "burning
rags in a can" videos but they all have problems of not generating enough
smoke for a long enough period of time.

Our machine generates smoke for a long time but not enough smoke!
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke7.jpg.html

It's 3 holes in a new paint can with glycerin in a soup can inside.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke3.jpg.html

The top has a 12VDC diesel glow plug which gets red hot. It is stuck into
the glycerin in a soup can. That generates the smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke5.jpg.html

We push that smoke out regulated at about 3 psi with an air gun mounted on
the side.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke8.jpg.html

There's just not enough smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke9.jpg.html

Do you know what fluid would generate more non-sticky smoke?
Or do you know of a hundred dollar smoke machine that can do the two thing?
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

From reading replies you don't any research on anything before posting, then
you argue and ask more questions. Are you a previous poster under another
name?

--
Tekkie

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 1:52:36 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
then
you argue and ask more questions. Are you a previous poster under another
name?


Very probably.

Horatio Alger
Norman Spruance
John Harmon
Frank Bacon
Frank Baron

All come to mind. All of them not half-bad mechanics with a fascination with Harbor Freight tools. However, it is that lacking half that is most likely to kill someone. I sincerely hope that this BMW never sees a public road again, for that reason.

I once stated that I would never drive a BMW. There are two reasons why:

Reason 1: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...t-on-road-poll

Reason 2: BMWs are wanna be cars. They wanna be a Porsche, they wanna be a Mercedes, but achieve neither status.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Arthur Wood wrote on 12/15/2017 12:46 PM:
trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. Seems you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

How did you come up with that number?


The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

Not really. Most likely they are using a fan designed to move air against
very little pressure, like the "muffin" fans in a PC. They will move a
decent volume of air at very low pressure, but the air flow falls off very
quickly as the pressure increases. The only way to know for sure is to get
the spec sheet of the fan.

Here is a spec sheet of a typical DC cooling fan.

http://www.nmbtc.com/content/pdfs/08015JE.pdf

Notice the flow goes to zero at pressures around 0.1 inches of H2O. Your 2
psi would be 55 inches of H2O.

Maybe they are using a different type of fan, but I don't think you are
going to get 2 psi from one of these machines. Maybe you could rig your
compressor to it to boost the pressure.


The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

The same cost for something that also isn't likely to work without
modification.

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?

See above...

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:46:23 -0000 (UTC), Arthur Wood
wrote:

trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. Seems you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?
You can calculate the PSI if you know the viscosity of the fluid and
the size of the orifice the fluid has to pass through. So you will
need to guess at the size of the orifice on the party smoke machine
and then look online for about 5 minutes to find a page that will let
you just plug the numbers in. I am pretty sure that searching for a
"conversions" web site will provide you with a solution. Why do you
need 2 to 4 PSI?
Eric

On 12/15/2017 02:18 PM, wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 1:52:36 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
then
you argue and ask more questions. Are you a previous poster under another
name?


Very probably.

Horatio Alger
Norman Spruance
John Harmon
Frank Bacon
Frank Baron

All come to mind. All of them not half-bad mechanics with a fascination with Harbor Freight tools. However, it is that lacking half that is most likely to kill someone. I sincerely hope that this BMW never sees a public road again, for that reason.

I once stated that I would never drive a BMW. There are two reasons why:

Reason 1: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...t-on-road-poll

Reason 2: BMWs are wanna be cars. They wanna be a Porsche, they wanna be a Mercedes, but achieve neither status.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


In the US new BMWs are a semiotic signal by nouveau riche whackoffs to
other nouveau riche whackoffs that they've achieved whackoff status.

Old BMWs usually have their windows tinted, fart-can exhaust installed,
and a big wing put on the back and are driven by kiddos who wanna look
flush. Those are on the road until they're wrecked or the repair
estimate for their first major mechanical issue comes in. Usually
doesn't take long.

On 12/15/2017 02:18 PM, wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 1:52:36 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
then
you argue and ask more questions. Are you a previous poster under another
name?


Very probably.

Horatio Alger
Norman Spruance
John Harmon
Frank Bacon
Frank Baron

All come to mind. All of them not half-bad mechanics with a fascination with Harbor Freight tools. However, it is that lacking half that is most likely to kill someone. I sincerely hope that this BMW never sees a public road again, for that reason.

I once stated that I would never drive a BMW. There are two reasons why:

Reason 1: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...t-on-road-poll

Reason 2: BMWs are wanna be cars. They wanna be a Porsche, they wanna be a Mercedes, but achieve neither status.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


It's not that BMWs are bad cars, exactly, it's just that for people who
actually care about luxury and/or performance vs. brand bling there are
better cars available in just about every segment from other marques,
for similar prices

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:46:23 -0000 (UTC), Arthur
Wood wrote:

trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. Seems you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

Why are you concerned with PSI. AIUI, you only need enough pressure to
get the smoke out of the machine, or out of the hose**. Plainly it has
that much pressure, or the machine wouldn't function for its original
purpose.

After that the smoke just has to float around near the vacuum leak and
the vacuum will suck it into the engine.

If anything too much pressure would make the smoke zoom by the leak
without stopping. LOL Well, not unless it was r eally fast, you'd
still probably see some of it get waylaid and sucked into the engine

**Or are you saying it needs enough pressure to get through the hose?
The pictures don't show it being used with a hose, but if it doesn't
have enough pressure to get it through the hose, then skip the hose and
just blow from the machine to the engine. You can put the machine on a
chair or stepladder if need be. You can hold it closer to the engine
if need be.

The pictures show the smoke going out 3 feet or more. That seems like
enough pressure to me, and a bigger problem is likely that there is too
much smoke. Is that why you want to use a hose? If there's too much,
cut a hole in a big piece of paper near the engine so that only so much
can get through the hole. It's not like you have to do this for 50,000
miles, only long enough to find the vacuum leak.

The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?

No.


Typically, fog is created by vaporizing proprietary water and
glycol-based or glycerin-based fluids or through the atomization of
mineral oil. This fluid (often referred to colloquially as fog juice)
vaporizes or atomizes inside the fog machine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_machine

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:46:23 -0000 (UTC), Arthur Wood
wrote:

trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. Seems you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?


Not really possible to be really accurate. You could determine how
much poressure is required by calculating the velocity of the fog
escaping from the nozzle size and roughly approxemate the pressure
utilized to force that flow, but that won't tell you the pressure
capability of the system. (it might put out 2000 cfm of smoke at
1/2PSI, and be capable of pumping 1000cfm at 2.5psi, for example.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:22:41 -0500, rickman wrote:

Arthur Woodwrote on 12/15/2017 12:46 PM:
trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. See Hpressure but it is s you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)



They don't use a fan. They use a liquid pump to squirt the fluid
through the heater, which vapourizes , producing steam pressure. No
fan. I have onem and I've had it apart. The poressure is reasonable,
but I'd say less than 5 psi. Commercial smokemachiners run somewhere
around 1 - 2 PSI maximum.

The only olproblem I see is getting the HOT smoke (really more like
steam) into the fuel system you are testing. It will melt a plastic
hose attached to the output - so you need an adapter that acts as a
cooler as well - which WILL reduce the pressure somewhat.


If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

How did you come up with that number?


The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

Not really. Most likely they are using a fan designed to move air against
very little pressure, like the "muffin" fans in a PC. They will move a
decent volume of air at very low pressure, but the air flow falls off very
quickly as the pressure increases. The only way to know for sure is to get
the spec sheet of the fan.

Here is a spec sheet of a typical DC cooling fan.
\



http://www.nmbtc.com/content/pdfs/08015JE.pdf

Notice the flow goes to zero at pressures around 0.1 inches of H2O. Your 2
psi would be 55 inches of H2O.

Maybe they are using a different type of fan, but I don't think y

ou are
going to get 2 psi from one of these machines. Maybe you could rig your
compressor to it to boost the pressure.


The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

The same cost for something that also isn't likely to work without
modification.

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?

See above...

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:17:05 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:46:23 -0000 (UTC), Arthur
Wood wrote:

trader_4 wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2XYORX
That's what I was telling him about in the other thread here, that I've
heard people have used one of those disco smoke gizmos. Seems you
should be able to rig up something to pipe it in. Plus, with a boom box
and some songs, you can have a business at parties and weddings as a DJ.

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed"
in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the
smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period
of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4
psi?).

The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

Why are you concerned with PSI. AIUI, you only need enough pressure to
get the smoke out of the machine, or out of the hose**. Plainly it has
that much pressure, or the machine wouldn't function for its original
purpose.

After that the smoke just has to float around near the vacuum leak and
the vacuum will suck it into the engine.

Again, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about, Micky. The smoke
is pumped INTO the system, with the engine not running - under a low
pressure to force it OUT through the leak.

If anything too much pressure would make the smoke zoom by the leak
without stopping. LOL Well, not unless it was r eally fast, you'd
still probably see some of it get waylaid and sucked into the engine

Gettin in deeper, Micky

**Or are you saying it needs enough pressure to get through the hose?
The pictures don't show it being used with a hose, but if it doesn't
have enough pressure to get it through the hose, then skip the hose and
just blow from the machine to the engine. You can put the machine on a
chair or stepladder if need be. You can hold it closer to the engine
if need be.

The pictures show the smoke going out 3 feet or more. That seems like
enough pressure to me, and a bigger problem is likely that there is too
much smoke. Is that why you want to use a hose? If there's too much,
cut a hole in a big piece of paper near the engine so that only so much
can get through the hole. It's not like you have to do this for 50,000
miles, only long enough to find the vacuum leak.

The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while
debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice
(propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is
cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!
https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Great-Party-Fog-Machines/dp/B005UQPPK4/ref=pd_sim_267_1/135-2052768-3676406

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what
it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke1.jpg.html

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?

No.


Typically, fog is created by vaporizing proprietary water and
glycol-based or glycerin-based fluids or through the atomization of
mineral oil. This fluid (often referred to colloquially as fog juice)
vaporizes or atomizes inside the fog machine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_machine

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:52:41 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

Arthur Wood posted for all of us...



All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine
that works. All it needs to do is...
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

We made a smoke machine to work on a friend's kid's old bimmer but the
smoke machine we made failed to generate enough smoke. And now I need a
smoke machine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke2.jpg.html

It seems so simple, and yes, we've seen the "cigar in a can" and "burning
rags in a can" videos but they all have problems of not generating enough
smoke for a long enough period of time.

Our machine generates smoke for a long time but not enough smoke!
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke7.jpg.html

It's 3 holes in a new paint can with glycerin in a soup can inside.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke3.jpg.html

The top has a 12VDC diesel glow plug which gets red hot. It is stuck into
the glycerin in a soup can. That generates the smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke5.jpg.html

We push that smoke out regulated at about 3 psi with an air gun mounted on
the side.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke8.jpg.html

There's just not enough smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke9.jpg.html

Do you know what fluid would generate more non-sticky smoke?
Or do you know of a hundred dollar smoke machine that can do the two thing?
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

From reading replies you don't any research on anything before posting, then
you argue and ask more questions. Are you a previous poster under another
name?
You thinking the same guy that argued about tire mounting and
ballancing???

My thought too. Mabee his twin brother from a different mother???

Clare Snyder wrote:
Again, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about, Micky. The smoke
is pumped INTO the system, with the engine not running - under a low
pressure to force it OUT through the leak.

I have seen people do it manually. They take a big puff on the cigar
and blow into a piece of vacuum hose. It works okay if you have good
enough side-lighting that you can see where the smoke is coming out.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Arthur Wood wrote:
All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine
that works. All it needs to do is...
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

We made a smoke machine to work on a friend's kid's old bimmer but the
smoke machine we made failed to generate enough smoke. And now I need a
smoke machine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke2.jpg.html

It seems so simple, and yes, we've seen the "cigar in a can" and "burning
rags in a can" videos but they all have problems of not generating enough
smoke for a long enough period of time.

Our machine generates smoke for a long time but not enough smoke!
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke7.jpg.html

It's 3 holes in a new paint can with glycerin in a soup can inside.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke3.jpg.html

The top has a 12VDC diesel glow plug which gets red hot. It is stuck into
the glycerin in a soup can. That generates the smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke5.jpg.html

We push that smoke out regulated at about 3 psi with an air gun mounted on
the side.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke8.jpg.html

There's just not enough smoke.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/368...moke9.jpg.html

Do you know what fluid would generate more non-sticky smoke?
Or do you know of a hundred dollar smoke machine that can do the two thing?
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.


First lose the glow plug, more smoke = more surface area for the oil to
cook on.
I built a paint can unit as a demo, generates a LOT of smoke, more than
my Snap-On unit does.

Used nichrome wire wrapped around fiberglass tiki wicks. Wound a total
of 4 coils. Two are in series and then those are in parallel with the
other 2, gives you a LOT of surface area and uses under 12 amps of 12
volt current.

Next a common propane regulator. You do not want high PSI in the system,
REAL easy to damage parts that cannot handle pressure. The propane
regulator can take 90-200 psi and drop it to under 1/2 psi (11-12 inches
of water column, OEM smoke machine standard is no higher than 13 in/wc)

Made an air bar that puts the air out in a nice even ring.

Made a low pressure check valve on the output, that way you can shut
down the machine with it attached and it won't pull fuel vapor back in.

And a flow meter and adjustable flow so you can tell what is actually
going on.

Basically a home built version of a red line unit.

--
Steve W.

A better way to detect intake leaks is to disconnect the IAC once the idle has settled down and watch the RPMs as you spray ether on the suspected leaks.

Remember to reset the computer after such a test or it will throw a code and probably a light.

Any smoke the engine can burn it will burn. If it can't burn it you put the catalytic convertor at risk, and they are still expensive on some cars. I know some are as cheap as like $40 for an economy car but that ain't what you got here. For performance cars it can run over $1,000.

So use the ether, I would say. (starting fluid that is)

"The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot.
Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI? "

No, they are two different things, though interrelated. Kinda like watts and ohms but not the same thing.

PSI = Pounds per Square Inch.

CFM = Cubic Feet per Minute.

"For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening
at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one
in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch
nozzle. "

Some party foggers use ethylene glycol which is kryptonite to catalytic convertors. Word to the wise - use the starting fluid method.

That is the better method, and there are very very few reasons to use smoke.

"Why do you
need 2 to 4 PSI? "

Very good question. If it is the intake of an engine there should be a vacuum and atmospheric should do it.

Unless it is a diesel.

"Typically, fog is created by vaporizing proprietary water and
glycol-based or glycerin-based fluids or through the atomization of
mineral oil. "

Which is poisonous to the catalytic, and may have a deleterious effect on the MAF if you go directly into the air intake. Newer diesels MIGHT have a MAF so we are back to the ether. I think it is still less than four bucks a can, which should be enough to troubleshoot the intake system on about ten cars if you know what you're doing.

"The smoke
is pumped INTO the system, with the engine not running - under a low
pressure to force it OUT through the leak."

Yeah you could brush up bit as well. It must be tested with the engine running. When you shut it down at east ONE intake valve will be open and the odds are good that it is during valve overlap, which is quite long in modern engines. Odds are even better that two intake valves are open and it will go in one and out the other.

"First lose the glow plug, more smoke = more surface area for the oil to
cook on."

I saw o mention of it being a diesel. If the OP doesn't know or lacks the presence of mind to include that information I give the **** up. Take it to someone who knows what they're doing then.

There is no accounting for stupidity though, you know you ask many people if they bought or leased their new of fairly new car they actually don't know. Yes, even though I walk through the valley of stupidity that one took me slightly aback... I mean seriously, don't LET them people try to change their own tire.

You thinking the same guy that argued about tire mounting and
ballancing???

My thought too. Mabee his twin brother from a different mother???

I would be surprised if there were a mother involved in either case.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

wrote on 12/16/2017 6:53 AM:
"The smoke
is pumped INTO the system, with the engine not running - under a low
pressure to force it OUT through the leak."

Yeah you could brush up bit as well. It must be tested with the engine running. When you shut it down at east ONE intake valve will be open and the odds are good that it is during valve overlap, which is quite long in modern engines. Odds are even better that two intake valves are open and it will go in one and out the other.

Think about what you wrote. If you run this test with the engine running,
there is a vacuum on the intake and smoke won't exit through any leaks.
Instead the leaks pull air into the tubing. So how would any smoke at the
intake be leaked to show the defect?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 9:30:53 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

Think about what you wrote. If you run this test with the engine running,
there is a vacuum on the intake and smoke won't exit through any leaks.
Instead the leaks pull air into the tubing. So how would any smoke at the
intake be leaked to show the defect?

I suggest you look up "invincible ignorance".

At the same time, the longer this individual remains off the road, the better it will be for anyone forced to share that road.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

wrote on 12/16/2017 10:20 AM:
On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 9:30:53 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

Think about what you wrote. If you run this test with the engine running,
there is a vacuum on the intake and smoke won't exit through any leaks.
Instead the leaks pull air into the tubing. So how would any smoke at the
intake be leaked to show the defect?

I suggest you look up "invincible ignorance".

At the same time, the longer this individual remains off the road, the better it will be for anyone forced to share that road.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

I haven't seen one on topic word from you on this thread. Perhaps you
should look up "troll"?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 10:41:27 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

Melrose Park, PA

I haven't seen one on topic word from you on this thread. Perhaps you
should look up "troll"?

No, I exhausted my good will on the other thread.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 15/12/17 19:18, wrote:
I once stated that I would never drive a BMW. There are two reasons why:

Reason 1: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style..
That's a trash UK newspaper website fishing with link bait.

A supporting quote from National Enquirer on your side of the pond would
carry the same weight ...

--
Adrian C

wrote on 12/16/2017 11:18 AM:
On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 10:41:27 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

Melrose Park, PA

I haven't seen one on topic word from you on this thread. Perhaps you
should look up "troll"?

No, I exhausted my good will on the other thread.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

That doesn't mean you need to reply at all.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:52:41 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:
You thinking the same guy that argued about tire mounting and
ballancing???

My thought too. Mabee his twin brother from a different mother???

Yup

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...

Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?
You can calculate the PSI if you know the viscosity of the fluid and
the size of the orifice the fluid has to pass through. So you will
need to guess at the size of the orifice on the party smoke machine
and then look online for about 5 minutes to find a page that will let
you just plug the numbers in. I am pretty sure that searching for a
"conversions" web site will provide you with a solution. Why do you
need 2 to 4 PSI?
Eric

This mutant original poster (not you) doesn't do any research so when you
used that word it is out of his league.

--
Tekkie

https://jalopnik.com/science-confirm...wor-1120783177

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/20/wh...hated-so-much/

http://theweek.com/articles/461073/n...-biggest-jerks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lweAnuETK0M

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/ca...are-the-worst/

No shortage of supporting evidence.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 08:29:33 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

https://jalopnik.com/science-confirm...wor-1120783177

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/20/wh...hated-so-much/

http://theweek.com/articles/461073/n...-biggest-jerks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lweAnuETK0M

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/ca...are-the-worst/

No shortage of supporting evidence.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Where I live has the highest concentration versus population of Prius
cars in the USA. At least it did a while back. So even though
population density here is low I still see a lot of Prius models. And
boy do they tend to drive slow.
When they first came out a friend of mine bought one and he showed
me how you could use the display in real time to modify your driving
technique to attain the best fuel economy. So I took his car out for a
spin on some deserted back roads and had some fun getting the best
fuel economy. Part of that means accelerating slowly and driving
slowly.
I'm on an island and lots of drivers think they can drive as slow
as they want on 55 MPH roads because "This ain't the mainland, so slow
down". Prius drivers seem to have really taken this attitude to heart.
Lots of the time there will be a twenty or more car line going 40 MPH
on the highway with either a Prius or an old pickup in front. Lately I
have been seeing more of the former. GRRR.
Eric

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:14:22 -0000 (UTC), Arthur Wood
wrote:


All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine
that works. All it needs to do is...
a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and,
b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

Find a few hippies and buy them a couple ounces of marijuana. There will
be lots of smoke...... LOL

You cant rent smoke machines like bands use on stage, at a music store
or theatrical supplies place. PRobably wont cost all that much to rent
for a few hours....

On 18/12/17 16:29, wrote:
https://jalopnik.com/science-confirms-...

.... that the language of advertising bait exists and works.

--
Adrian C

I thought I would let this fester for a bit in the hopes that our multiple personality cretin might actually try something and, thereby, learn something. No such luck.

a) Anyone actually considered the essential idiocy of using a smoke machine to find a vacuum leak?
b) And, once past that hurdle, running the same in a partially enclosed space for 30 minutes?
c) And once past that second hurdle, actually determining anything useful?

Anyone who has ever worked in or watched from the side-lines in a professional shop, or listened to Car Talk, Car Pro or any of several similar options knows how to find a vacuum leak, quickly, accurately and with a minimum of mess.

All it takes is a propane torch, a soft rubber hose, and a narrow metal nozzle.

Connect the hose to the torch nozzle such that the propane is directed into the hose.
Put a small metal tube at the end of the rubber hose to direct the propane into a small area.
Turn the torch on low (don't light it, of course). Run the nozzle all over the various potential locations while the vehicle is running.
The engine will rev when it sucks the propane into the vacuum leak.
Mark with keel, turn off torch.
Done.

And, one is not releasing sufficient propane as to worry about fire or explosions, using a tool probably right at hand.

Guys and gals, this is pretty basic automotive diagnostics. Why re-invent the wheel using some claptrap kludge of dubious utility?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

"I thought I would let this fester for a bit..."

Sounds like my method but with propane. One note though, sometimes the idle control is so good it will not rev up. That is why I disconnect the IAC. Sets a code but gives a more conclusive indication.

And the smoke can damage the catalytic convertor. His money, and not like a $46 one either. High performance foreign catalytic convertors are expensive.

On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 7:01:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
And the smoke can damage the catalytic convertor. His money, and not like a $46 one either. High performance foreign catalytic convertors are expensive.

Anything that keeps it off the road is good. But, what are the odds that there is nothing but a bit of pipe where the converter should be?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA