I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.

But is it the speaker?
Or something else?

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get
speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I
helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound
persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the
crumbling melted-in covers).

The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness?
If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?

Could be so many things from a dead bug in the voice-coil to a blown speaker to any of a dozen other causes. If you can feed the speaker from another source and if *does not* scratch, you have a problem with the head-end (electronics). If it continues to buzz, it is the speaker. Before replacing it, try removing it from the vehicle and blowing it out with canned air (NOT compressed air - far too powerful), paying attention to the voice coil below the spider. If crud gets in there, that will cause the buzz. Also gently press the cone in - do you feel any scraping? If so, the speaker is done.

Parts Express will sell you speakers in many configurations, sizes and styles. Something will fit. Keep in mind this is a Camry. Which is a not-particularly sound-proof device, and within which speakers are more noisemakers than high-fidelity audio reproducers. What you will need to do is pay attention to polarity when you install the new speaker.

Good luck with it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

harry newton wrote:
I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.

But is it the speaker?
Or something else?

You can swap the speaker for the one from the other side. But "scratchy"
sounds are apt to be rubbing voice coils which you can feel by pressing
on the cone with your thumbs.

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get
speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

There are several standard sizes. You can buy cheap replacement speakers
from chain auto parts stores. You can buy the same speakers for half as
much from Parts Express but then pay postage on them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry
newton wrote:

I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.

Then it's the speaker. I'm assuming you used both the left-to-right
balance and the front-to-rear fader so you were really listening to only
one speaker at a time. If there is a problem in the left channel, it
will be heard in both the front and rear speaker.

But is it the speaker?

Yes.

Or something else?

No.

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get

The dealer is a terrible place. Do they even sell speakers?

speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

Crutchfield. Very reliable. Very helpful on the phone with real
people. They're in Charlotte, Va. and I'm in Baltimore and I ordered
something and I wasn't in a hurry but I got it the next day.

I recommend them highly despite that they did make a mistake, like other
vendors do, wrt the inputs on my 2005 Solara radio. This is the E7001
radio, but I don't think E7002 is any different. These are both
Navigation radios that only hold one CD, and with some such radio, if
you press the CD button twice, it goes to the CD deck, and it does have
a jack for a CD deck (or satellite) and they sell devices that will use
such a jack for USB/AUX input. Well that doesn't work on these radios,
but they took my word for it, sent me a paid-mailing label, I sent it
back as if it were new, dropped it off at a UPS place, and I got my
refund the next day.

I've also bought speakers from them more than once in the past. No one
else has a better list of cars and their dimensions.

You SHOULD NOT MESS with dash speakers. There was a recall on
dashboards from that year and a couple others, on the Solara but I'm
pretty sure on the Camry too, and some of them have deteriorated so bad
they replaced the dash for free. My dash has a few hairline cracks,
but when I tried to lift the 3 digital gauges above the center AC
outlets, I put a tiny nick in the dash, behind the gauges. Plainly my
dash, also a 2005, is softer than when it was made. (But I'm prettty
sure it's nowhere near bad enough to get them to replace it for free,
plus the recall has expired anyhow.) I had to go at the gauges from
another direction and I did get them up, to reach the radio bolts and
remove the radio (long enough to unplug that device above that didn't
work. I had been able to plug it in from the bottom without removing
the radio.) So there is a tiny nick there

Since you refer to the deck, I assume this is really a Camry and not a
Solara, which some people call a Camry Solara. And that it's a sedan
and not a convertible, because the convertibles also have a woofer
behind the rear seat. I don't think it's even mentioned in the owners
manual or anywhere but the wiring diagram, but it's there.

I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I
helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound
persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the
crumbling melted-in covers).

For crud, I would have washed the covers in the dishwasher. It does a
great job on things like this.

The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness?
If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?

Yes, but there are lots of sizes, especially when you consider depth.

replying to harry newton, Iggy wrote:
Nice work on the grills! Yeah, the scratchiness is from either a separated
coil or torn cone, you'll need replacement...of both while the car is finally
apart, what an "engineering" mess. Auto Parts stores, Junkyards and most
anywhere pertinent online from Walmart to Crutchfield (
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VDtdeTrOHie/ ). Crutchfield's a long time car
audio site (who's now expanded) with very good customer service. They can help
you replace or upgrade both rears, even saving you the measuring to tell you
the size for the specific car. I prefer the polymer or plastic cone speakers,
much richer sound. Manufacturer speakers are usually pretty good, so don't
commit to cheapies without hearing them in the car first.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...s-1152165-.htm

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.

But is it the speaker?
Or something else?

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get
speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I
helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound
persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the
crumbling melted-in covers).

The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness?
If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?


Not "standard size" - they are often even different from mdel to
madel in a brand, or year to yrear in a model.

Try scrapyard? Otherwise dealer is best bet. There are kits to put
"standard" speakers in, but they are not terribly satisfactpry. O have
installed non-OEM speakers by making adapter plates - basically not
worth the hassle.

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:35:37 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry
newton wrote:

I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.

Then it's the speaker. I'm assuming you used both the left-to-right
balance and the front-to-rear fader so you were really listening to only
one speaker at a time. If there is a problem in the left channel, it
will be heard in both the front and rear speaker.

But is it the speaker?

Yes.

Or something else?

No.

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get

The dealer is a terrible place. Do they even sell speakers? ;;


WEhy is it a terrible place"? -0 and of course they sell speakers.
The right ones, that bolt in properly, even. Yes, they cost abit more
than the ones that don't fit.

speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

Crutchfield. Very reliable. Very helpful on the phone with real
people. They're in Charlotte, Va. and I'm in Baltimore and I ordered
something and I wasn't in a hurry but I got it the next day.

They will likely have "universal" speakers and adapter brackets -
which usually work OK - - - - -

I recommend them highly despite that they did make a mistake, like other
vendors do, wrt the inputs on my 2005 Solara radio. This is the E7001
radio, but I don't think E7002 is any different. These are both
Navigation radios that only hold one CD, and with some such radio, if
you press the CD button twice, it goes to the CD deck, and it does have
a jack for a CD deck (or satellite) and they sell devices that will use
such a jack for USB/AUX input. Well that doesn't work on these radios,
but they took my word for it, sent me a paid-mailing label, I sent it
back as if it were new, dropped it off at a UPS place, and I got my
refund the next day.

I've also bought speakers from them more than once in the past. No one
else has a better list of cars and their dimensions.

You SHOULD NOT MESS with dash speakers. There was a recall on
dashboards from that year and a couple others, on the Solara but I'm
pretty sure on the Camry too, and some of them have deteriorated so bad
they replaced the dash for free. My dash has a few hairline cracks,
but when I tried to lift the 3 digital gauges above the center AC
outlets, I put a tiny nick in the dash, behind the gauges. Plainly my
dash, also a 2005, is softer than when it was made. (But I'm prettty
sure it's nowhere near bad enough to get them to replace it for free,
plus the recall has expired anyhow.) I had to go at the gauges from
another direction and I did get them up, to reach the radio bolts and
remove the radio (long enough to unplug that device above that didn't
work. I had been able to plug it in from the bottom without removing
the radio.) So there is a tiny nick there

Since you refer to the deck, I assume this is really a Camry and not a
Solara, which some people call a Camry Solara. And that it's a sedan
and not a convertible, because the convertibles also have a woofer
behind the rear seat. I don't think it's even mentioned in the owners
manual or anywhere but the wiring diagram, but it's there.

I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I
helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound
persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the
crumbling melted-in covers).

For crud, I would have washed the covers in the dishwasher. It does a
great job on things like this.

The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness?
If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?

Yes, but there are lots of sizes, especially when you consider depth.

"If there is a problem in the left channel, it
will be heard in both the front and rear speaker. "

Not necessarily anymore. Many car radios now have a separate amp per speaker. The advantage is if you like bass you can crank up the rears and they can distort slightly and the front will play clean. seems like more power but it really isn't.

Delco has been doing that for a long time. In fact some of the higher end models also have anti-clipping.

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?

I'll defer to the expertise of others, but if you wiggle the wire does
the "scratchy sound" increase?

Perhaps a speaker wire connection is less than satisfactory. Ground
wire on the stereo needs to be checked -- maybe?

He who is Clare Snyder said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:39:10 -0500:

Not "standard size" - they are often even different from mdel to
madel in a brand, or year to yrear in a model.

Thanks for all the advice - I haven't touched speakers in decades!

I like the ideas of:
a. Testing with a separate speaker (if I can find one)
b. Testing by jumping the wires (shouldn't be too hard).

At this point, I'm trying to figure out what size fits.

Here is a picture of the topside of the speaker when we replaced the grill:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker5.jpg

Here is the bottom underside in the trunk:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker6.jpg

The kid is at college so she only comes home to the neighbor sporadically
so I'm just lining up my ducks now.

Looking at the advice to call Crutchfield, they seem to be good and bad.
They were very helpful. 1.844.298.3430 About $50 for two speakers.

The problem is *every* speaker they have for the 2005 Camry doesn't fit.
https://www.crutchfield.com/g_400/Al...p=105&l=E&pg=1

The guy was helpful and said I had to make my own bracket. Huh? Why can't
it just bolt in? (I'm glad I asked because I didn't expect that.)

Amazingly, they have 200 speakers they say that fit, of three sizes:
5-1/4, 6-1/2, and 6x9 (I didn't think to measure it unforutnately)

I don't have the car in hand, but apparently there are three types:
a. With navigation (she doesn't have it)
b. With JBL audio system (I'll have to ask - probably not)
c. Without both of those (this is probably what they have)

I called the Toyota dealership and gave them the VIN where they told me
their price was $298 for a single OEM Pioneer 6x9 speaker + about $30 tax,
so, since I'll likely want to get a set, that would be $660 for the set.

I just can't pay that. Even for a nice neighbor's kid.
It's just too much.

Since Camelback Toyota in Arizona usually has the best prices, I called
them and they told me, from the VIN, that the radio is a "Fujitsu 10" and
the speaker part number is 86160-AA450, they sell for half that price, at
$300 for the set.
https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota...er-86160aa450/

It's back to Crutchfield I go!

He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:32 -0800:

I'll defer to the expertise of others, but if you wiggle the wire does
the "scratchy sound" increase?

Perhaps a speaker wire connection is less than satisfactory. Ground
wire on the stereo needs to be checked -- maybe?

That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years).
The car is at college so it only comes home to do laundry.

When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.

What I'll do is:
a. Try to find a test speaker of about 20 watts
b. Make a set of jumper wires to jump one side to the other
c. Wiggle the wires to see if the speaker or the radio is bad

Incidentally, after ripping out the interior in the back, the new grills
from the Toyota dealer went in easily after drilling out the old
heat-melted posts.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker1.jpg

The dealer parts came with these round metal clips to fasten the posts:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker10.jpg

We originally thought the noise was because the grill was destroyed:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker3.jpg

I think the new speakers will have to come out through the top:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker6d52eb.jpg

Crutchfield. Parts-Express - both will fill the bill.

You *do not* need fancy brackets. Given the potential service life of the car, the potential service life of the speaker(s) to be used, the fact that these speakers are going into a car, and not a living-room, any means that secures the speaker reliably is fair game, and McGyver solutions are perfectly acceptable - again as long as they are secure.

https://www.parts-express.com/grs-69...campaign= pla

Looks pretty close - and is also a dual-cone just like what is there.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:44:17 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

I called the Toyota dealership and gave them the VIN where they told me
their price was $298 for a single OEM Pioneer 6x9 speaker + about $30 tax,
so, since I'll likely want to get a set, that would be $660 for the set.

You can find a Pioneer 6x9 speaker for a better price than that,
surely. If it fits the OEM -- why not?

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:56:03 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:


That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years).
The car is at college so it only comes home to do laundry.

When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

WTF is the world coming to.

On Monday, 4 December 2017 22:54:12 UTC, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:56:03 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:


That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years).
The car is at college so it only comes home to do laundry.

When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

WTF is the world coming to.

so tell him how

On 12/4/2017 5:54 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:56:03 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:


That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years).
The car is at college so it only comes home to do laundry.

When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

WTF is the world coming to.


Hey, take it easy on the kid. He's going to have a master's degree in
4th century Greek sculpture and $70,000 in student loans. The world
need people like that contributing to society don't they? Somebody has
to make the fries.

On 5/12/2017 7:56 AM, harry newton wrote:
He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:32 -0800:

I'll defer to the expertise of others, but if you wiggle the wire does
the "scratchy sound" increase?

Perhaps a speaker wire connection is less than satisfactory. Ground
wire on the stereo needs to be checked -- maybe?

That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years).
The car is at college so it only comes home to do laundry.

When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.

What I'll do is:
a. Try to find a test speaker of about 20 watts b. Make a set of jumper
wires to jump one side to the other
c. Wiggle the wires to see if the speaker or the radio is bad

Incidentally, after ripping out the interior in the back, the new grills
from the Toyota dealer went in easily after drilling out the old
heat-melted posts.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker1.jpg

The dealer parts came with these round metal clips to fasten the posts:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker10.jpg

We originally thought the noise was because the grill was destroyed:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker3.jpg

I think the new speakers will have to come out through the top:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker6d52eb.jpg

It's the only way you're getting them out of there. The top trim panel
should come out fairly easily and make access to the speaker retainers
easy as well.


--

Xeno

He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

The whole family is girls.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:45:35 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:35:37 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry
newton wrote:

I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.

Then it's the speaker. I'm assuming you used both the left-to-right
balance and the front-to-rear fader so you were really listening to only
one speaker at a time. If there is a problem in the left channel, it
will be heard in both the front and rear speaker.
....

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get

The dealer is a terrible place. Do they even sell speakers? ;;


WEhy is it a terrible place"? -0 and of course they sell speakers.

AIUI, the dealers' speakers are no better than what they put in the car
originally, but it's possible things have changed. Anyoone know? If
they are no better than original, they are still useful when the
original ones have been ruined somehow.

The right ones, that bolt in properly, even. Yes, they cost abit more
than the ones that don't fit.

Who is talking about ones that don't fit? I've never bought a speaker
from Crutchfield that didn't fit just as the original one did, except
for one car. I knew from the specs printed in the catalog (before the
web) that it was too deep, but I hoped magic would allow me to get it in
there (or maybe I could pound out a dent in the outside of the door!).
Indeed, it was just the depth they said it was, and so was the hole in
my car and it didnt' fit. Hmm. I'm sure the dealer would have had
speakers that fit, but I don't know that they would have been any better
than what I had.

speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

Crutchfield. Very reliable. Very helpful on the phone with real
people. They're in Charlotte, Va. and I'm in Baltimore and I ordered
something and I wasn't in a hurry but I got it the next day.

They will likely have "universal" speakers and adapter brackets -
which usually work OK - - - - -

Have you dealt with Cructchfield. No speaker I ever bought from them
used an adapter bracket, and none would be called universal. Of course
a 6x9x2.8" speaker can univerally fit every car that accespts speakers
of that size, but that doesn't make the speaker universal.

I won't be replacing my current speakers. Solaras don't use speaker
cover, except maybe on the dash. So to upgrade my speakers I'd have to,
I think, take off my entire inside front door panel or my entire rear
seat panel. After the fiasco of my last car, I'm not going to do that.

They do sell radios that require a bracket, because the face is not the
same exact shape as the original, or because one is changing from 2 or
1.5 DIN to 1 DIN, etc. But I don't think that's related.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:56:03 +0000 (UTC), harry
newton wrote:

He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:32 -0800:

I'll defer to the expertise of others, but if you wiggle the wire does
the "scratchy sound" increase?

Perhaps a speaker wire connection is less than satisfactory. Ground
wire on the stereo needs to be checked -- maybe?

That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years).
The car is at college

You must be so proud. My car didn't even finish the 6th grade.

so it only comes home to do laundry.

When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.

What I'll do is:
a. Try to find a test speaker of about 20 watts
b. Make a set of jumper wires to jump one side to the other
c. Wiggle the wires to see if the speaker or the radio is bad

On 12/04/2017 10:50 PM, micky wrote:
AIUI, the dealers' speakers are no better than what they put in the car
originally, but it's possible things have changed. Anyoone know? If
they are no better than original, they are still useful when the
original ones have been ruined somehow.

Short of a volume limiter, I don't believe you can protect a speaker from a teenager.

On Tuesday, 5 December 2017 09:21:09 UTC, Jack wrote:
On 12/04/2017 10:50 PM, micky wrote:
AIUI, the dealers' speakers are no better than what they put in the car
originally, but it's possible things have changed. Anyoone know? If
they are no better than original, they are still useful when the
original ones have been ruined somehow.

Short of a volume limiter, I don't believe you can protect a speaker from a teenager.

There is one way, let them pay for the replacement.


NT

Oren needs an attitude transplant. Girls or otherwise, tech has changed mightily these last 40 years and if Oren is going to opine from 20,000 feet, perhaps he might find another location to do so.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 8:02:33 PM UTC-5, Xeno wrote:


It's the only way you're getting them out of there. The top trim panel
should come out fairly easily and make access to the speaker retainers
easy as well.

Yep, four machine-screws and the unit will *POP* right out - that is, after overcoming the damping glue probably installed at the factory. I have used a flexible 1" putty knife in the past for the purpose. It is not a bad idea to use some similar material on re-installation to prevent rattling.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Good morning Harry,

I'd suggest going to the Crutchfield web site:

www.crutchfield.com

or more specifically:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-sqOT5U...rselector.aspx

They have speakers that are an exact fit, starting around $40, and will
have correct hardware and they will have adapter cables as well, if you
need them.

Regards,
Tim



On 12/4/2017 8:14 AM, harry newton wrote:
I haven't worked on speakers in decades.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound? We can isolate it with the balance to
a single speaker.

But is it the speaker? Or something else?

If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get
speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or
is each unique?

I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I
helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound
persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the
crumbling melted-in covers).

The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness?
If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:44:17 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

I called the Toyota dealership and gave them the VIN where they told me
their price was $298 for a single OEM Pioneer 6x9 speaker + about $30 tax,
so, since I'll likely want to get a set, that would be $660 for the set.

You can find a Pioneer 6x9 speaker for a better price than that,
surely. If it fits the OEM -- why not?

Whereas you can get generic 6x9s from Parts Express for around $5 each,
for a total of $20 the set, and they probably won't be any worse than the
originals.
--scott



--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 2:14:40 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 20:44:17 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

I called the Toyota dealership and gave them the VIN where they told me
their price was $298 for a single OEM Pioneer 6x9 speaker + about $30 tax,
so, since I'll likely want to get a set, that would be $660 for the set.

You can find a Pioneer 6x9 speaker for a better price than that,
surely. If it fits the OEM -- why not?

Whereas you can get generic 6x9s from Parts Express for around $5 each,
for a total of $20 the set, and they probably won't be any worse than the
originals.
--scott



--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Yeah. The dual-cone devices (per OEM) run a princely $8.25 for four and up. Splurge!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 04:20:59 -0500, Jack wrote:

Short of a volume limiter, I don't believe you can protect a speaker from a teenager.

....Slowly raises hand. I could shake the pictures on the walls at
home. Once came up from the basement, after the stereo sound stopped.

Dang. A speaker was on fire. I threw it out the front door, in the
snow.

harry newton posted for all of us...


I like the ideas of:
a. Testing with a separate speaker (if I can find one)


I like the idea of hooking a guitar amp up to a transistor radio speaker to
see how far the magnet flies.

--
Tekkie

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 04:20:59 -0500, Jack wrote:

Short of a volume limiter, I don't believe you can protect a speaker from a teenager.

...Slowly raises hand. I could shake the pictures on the walls at
home. Once came up from the basement, after the stereo sound stopped.

Dang. A speaker was on fire. I threw it out the front door, in the
snow.

That is why God invented the fuse. ALL my (decent) speakers are fused, and none of the others are being fed by anything even nearly capable of delivering that level of energy into that device sufficient for ignition.

Generally, fuses are designed to protect real-estate. Careful fusing will protect some equipment sometimes. Exceptionally careful fusing will protect most equipment, most of the time. No fuse is perfect. But some are so imperfect as to be genuinely dangerous, and possibly actually evil.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 05/12/17 14:48, harry newton wrote:
He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

The whole family is girls.

All the more reason to encourage them to learn to make and fix stuff.
Geek girls rock!

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:58:11 +1100, Clifford Heath
wrote:

On 05/12/17 14:48, harry newton wrote:
He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

The whole family is girls.

All the more reason to encourage them to learn to make and fix stuff.
Geek girls rock!

My youngest intimidated most of her boyfriends untill she met her now
hiusband - a heavy truck mechanic. None of the others coulkd drive her
car (standard) and she could change a flat - they had to call road
service - - -

He who is Scott Dorsey said on 5 Dec 2017 14:14:38 -0500:

Whereas you can get generic 6x9s from Parts Express for around $5 each,
for a total of $20 the set, and they probably won't be any worse than the
originals.

Price is never an indication of quality - it's just an indication of what
other people are willing to pay - which - marketing knows - is highly
influenced by marketing garbage.

So, a 6x9" 20W $5 Parts Express speaker might or might not be as good as a
6x9" 20W $300 speaker at Toyota which itself might or might not be as good
as a 6x9" 20W $25 speaker at Crutchfields.

How are we to know?
Sure, in the days of yore, we pored over those 3db power:frequency curves,
from 7KHz to 20KHz on each speaker box, and where, folks like Jeff
Liebermann would know, they always find a way to lie a little bit.

While I doubt the $300 per speaker at Toyota is a fair price, how can I
tell, a priori, if the $5 speaker at Parts Express will be as good (or bad)
as the $25 speaker at Crutchfields?

Is there any way for a consumer to make an intelligent speaker decision?

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:13:06 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

He who is Scott Dorsey said on 5 Dec 2017 14:14:38 -0500:

Whereas you can get generic 6x9s from Parts Express for around $5 each,
for a total of $20 the set, and they probably won't be any worse than the
originals.

Price is never an indication of quality - it's just an indication of what
other people are willing to pay - which - marketing knows - is highly
influenced by marketing garbage.

So, a 6x9" 20W $5 Parts Express speaker might or might not be as good as a
6x9" 20W $300 speaker at Toyota which itself might or might not be as good
as a 6x9" 20W $25 speaker at Crutchfields.

How are we to know?
Sure, in the days of yore, we pored over those 3db power:frequency curves,
from 7KHz to 20KHz on each speaker box, and where, folks like Jeff
Liebermann would know, they always find a way to lie a little bit.

While I doubt the $300 per speaker at Toyota is a fair price, how can I
tell, a priori, if the $5 speaker at Parts Express will be as good (or bad)
as the $25 speaker at Crutchfields?



Is there any way for a consumer to make an intelligent speaker decision?
A good indicator of quality is magnet mass. If it has a tiny little
piddler of a magnet it will not handle any power - particularly bass.
Then lookat the cone material, and the surround. The spider is also
important- The basket is less critical - but in a large powerfull
speaker the basket will be MUCH solider than on a cheap-ass speaker.
If youfind a speaker with a cast aluminum basket you know you are
looking at a higher quality speaker - and if it is stamped steel, the
heavier the better.

Poor suspension spiders and surrounds will let the voice-coil scuff
on the magnet core - which makes a speaker rattle. A flexible basket
can do the same. The surround compliance is different on a speaker
designed for an accoustic suspension box than for a bass reflex, or an
open baffle like in the average auto rear deck. Toyota actually used
accoustic suspension on some of the "premium" sound systems years ago.

LOTS of things you can look at.

I have a pair of OEM Toyota speakers from the eighties sitting here,
as well as a pair of speakers from a Zenith TV of about the same
period - virtually the same size - and the Toyota speaker is
significantly heavier. Thicker cone, thicker basket metal, and more
rigid design - as well as a MUCH larger and stronger magnet, The
Zenith also uses an "m"formed paper surround, while the Toyota uses a
rubber surround. I've got a "tin ear" but even I can tell the
difference between the two.

The drivers in my AudioResearch towers are MUCH heavier than my
no-name set too - and I replaced the foam surrounds that had totally
"disolved" from age with new high-quality synthetic rubber surrounds -
on both the active and passive 14 inch cones.

In automotive speakers the basket rigidity is more important because
of the "G" forces experienced when driving on rough roads. The cheap
speaker might sound good when installed - but it may be pretty auful
two years later.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 5 Dec 2017 03:48:53 +0000 (UTC), harry
newton wrote:

He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

The whole family is girls.

Wait a second. The kid next door you're doing all this for is a girl.

Do we have another Roy Moore here?

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 05 Dec 2017 20:43:37 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:58:11 +1100, Clifford Heath
wrote:

On 05/12/17 14:48, harry newton wrote:
He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

The whole family is girls.

All the more reason to encourage them to learn to make and fix stuff.
Geek girls rock!

My youngest intimidated most of her boyfriends untill she met her now
hiusband - a heavy truck mechanic. None of the others coulkd drive her
car (standard) and she could change a flat - they had to call road
service - - -

That's pitiful.

Two stories. Before cellphones: A girl I met at a lecture -- not
attractive and I wasn't interested in her -- calls me on a Friday or
Saturday to change her tire. I say, Can it wait until Sunday. Yes.
I'm there, doing it and she's not watching. I say, Why don't you watch
so you can do it yourself next time. "I'll call someone" "What if you're
out in the country?" "I never go there". I finished the job and left
and I hope she thought that was why I never called her. If she'd been
cute, I still can't imagine spending my life with someone like that.

(Plus she didn't seem very appreciative to let me work while she
wasn't keeping me company, at least)


Shopping for a car a couple months ago, guy had a beaufitul red Mustang,
special black trim, special power chip for ignition, car 12 years old
but interior (leather), exterior, engine compartment like new. etc.
Stick shift. One of his teenage sons was sort of trying to learn to
drive it and the other wsn't even learning to drive! The normal thing
to do woudl be to give the car to his son, but neither could handle it.

If it is the speaker there is no way I would pay the dealer price for it. That is ridiculous. Almost anything you can get for about 20 % of that money would be an upgrade.

harry newton wrote:
He who is Scott Dorsey said on 5 Dec 2017 14:14:38 -0500:

Whereas you can get generic 6x9s from Parts Express for around $5 each,
for a total of $20 the set, and they probably won't be any worse than the
originals.

Price is never an indication of quality - it's just an indication of what
other people are willing to pay - which - marketing knows - is highly
influenced by marketing garbage.

So, a 6x9" 20W $5 Parts Express speaker might or might not be as good as a
6x9" 20W $300 speaker at Toyota which itself might or might not be as good
as a 6x9" 20W $25 speaker at Crutchfields.

They're all dreadful. It doesn't matter which one you buy, it will be
dreadful. So buy the cheapest one or the most convenient one and don't
worry about it.

While I doubt the $300 per speaker at Toyota is a fair price, how can I
tell, a priori, if the $5 speaker at Parts Express will be as good (or bad)
as the $25 speaker at Crutchfields?

Is there any way for a consumer to make an intelligent speaker decision?

No, because it's basically not possible to get decent sound in a car anyway.
And even if it were, it wouldn't be possible to do it with the typical
full-range whizzer-cone speakers that we're talking about. So buy the cheapest
ones you can get and it won't sound any worse than it did when the car was
new.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 12/5/2017 3:58 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 05/12/17 14:48, harry newton wrote:
He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

It really is a shame when college kids can't fix a scratchy sounding
speaker. A speaker smarter than a snowflake. with a safe place.

The whole family is girls.

All the more reason to encourage them to learn to make and fix stuff.
Geek girls rock!

My wife, before we were married, installed a car stereo in her car. My
daughter is very good with that kind of stuff. In the Americorp
organization she joined after college, they do outdoor education and
they train everyone in the use of power tools and in construction
techniques. I helped out last weekend building garden beds. I pre-cut
all the lumber and brought it. Her fellow volunteers were very good at
putting the whole thing together, drilling, screwing pieces together,
and understanding the whole design. I don't know if they could have
planned the whole design and done it in a way that minimized lumber
costs, and that did not depend on the fasteners for structural
integrity. OTOH, my son was never into any of this kind of stuff.

My belief is that the lack of mechanical ability among many youth and
adults is based on two things:

1. Japanese cars. Far fewer mechanical breakdowns and less maintenance
led to the end of dads spending time with their kids showing them how to
change oil, plugs, points, rotors, and adjust timing on high-maintenance
vehicles. The whole skill set of using tools and fixing cars was lost.
Car maintenance teaches skills that are transferable to many other
applications.

2. Immigrants from countries with low-cost labor. My Indian friend told
me that it took a lot of getting used to life in the U.S. because in
India even middle class people have multiple servants to help out, i.e.
cooks, cleaners, gardeners, drivers, etc.. In China, labor is so cheap
that the middle class hires laborers and there is no "do-it-yourself"
mentality, it is viewed as demeaning to do home improvements like
painting or fixing plumbing problems. In the U.S., skilled and unskilled
labor is expensive so the "do-it-yourself" mentality and infrastructure
developed.

On 12/6/2017 4:37 PM, sms wrote:


My belief is that the lack of mechanical ability among many youth and
adults is based on two things:

1. Japanese cars. Far fewer mechanical breakdowns and less maintenance
led to the end of dads spending time with their kids showing them how to
change oil, plugs, points, rotors, and adjust timing on high-maintenance
vehicles. The whole skill set of using tools and fixing cars was lost.
Car maintenance teaches skills that are transferable to many other
applications.

Better standard of living is part of that. We drove some really cheap
cars that broke down frequently too. We had a part time job to buy a
$50 car. Now daddy buys junior a fairly new more reliable car.


2. Immigrants from countries with low-cost labor. My Indian friend told
me that it took a lot of getting used to life in the U.S. because in
India even middle class people have multiple servants to help out, i.e.
cooks, cleaners, gardeners, drivers, etc.. In China, labor is so cheap
that the middle class hires laborers and there is no "do-it-yourself"
mentality, it is viewed as demeaning to do home improvements like
painting or fixing plumbing problems.

I could learn to like that.