Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old April 11th 15, 04:29 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One Of These ?

One wierd thing about this one also is that from the voltage readings on the good (in fact both) channels, it uses bipolars but with the base or emitter in the middle. You can see the construction there, they mirrored it but flipped one side upside down. However input and all that are on one side. Why the hell didn't they just mirror it the other way ?

Anyway, I doubt it needs outputs from the readings, but it seems the outputs have the base (or maybe the emitter) in the middle, not the collector. And they are all the same polarity. I can't see the numbers and I am not taking that part of it apart unless necessary. But on one side they got like -100V on two pins and 0 on the other. On the other ones they got +100V on one pin but 0 on the other two. The difference is that the other is on the end instead of the middle.

Anyway, here are some pictures (higher res available on request) :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi01.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi02.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi03.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi04.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi05.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi06.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi07.jpg

It may be a little hard to see in those pictures but it is a two sided board which makes any reverse engineeering alot harder. If I could just find a print it would help.

I got no output on the right channel, or B or whatever. It is not in protection. The readings look the same as the other channel.

Any idea what it is ? Any help is appreciated. If not I gotta tear into it blind because you really can't get to much. Anything, even the model number might help. I doubt any idiot ripped the numbers off because it was hot because the serial number is still there.

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Old April 11th 15, 08:02 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One OfThese ?

wrote:


One wierd thing about this one also is that from the voltage readings on the good (in fact both) channels, it uses bipolars but with the base or emitter in the middle. You can see the construction there, they mirrored it but flipped one side upside down. However input and all that are on one side. Why the hell didn't they just mirror it the other way ?

Anyway, I doubt it needs outputs from the readings, but it seems the outputs have the base (or maybe the emitter) in the middle, not the collector. And they are all the same polarity. I can't see the numbers and I am not taking that part of it apart unless necessary. But on one side they got like -100V on two pins and 0 on the other. On the other ones they got +100V on one pin but 0 on the other two. The difference is that the other is on the end instead of the middle.

Anyway, here are some pictures (higher res available on request) :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi01.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi02.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi03.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi04.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi05.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi06.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../piox/pi07.jpg

It may be a little hard to see in those pictures but it is a two sided board which makes any reverse engineeering alot harder. If I could just find a print it would help.

I got no output on the right channel, or B or whatever. It is not in protection. The readings look the same as the other channel.

Any idea what it is ? Any help is appreciated. If not I gotta tear into it blind because you really can't get to much. Anything, even the model number might help. I doubt any idiot ripped the numbers off because it was hot because the serial number is still there.



** That is a USA made amplifier - not Pioneer.

FYI: Asian electronic gear has metric thread bolts and I but that POS has Yankee ones.

If the middle pin on a large flyt pak is not a collector, then the devices are lateral Mosfets.


.... Phil



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Old April 11th 15, 09:40 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One OfThese ?

"https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=pioneer+amplifier

My guess(tm) is that it's either a counterfeit, or someone just stuck
the Pioneer name on some other device in order to enhance its resale
value. "


I had serious doubts about it being a Pioneer and I appreciate the confirmation. As far as enhancing its value, it has probably more power than most Pioneers. (I just looked and now they are into class D3 at alot more power, but this thing is not new)

I doubt a company would just stick the nameplates on there, it may have been a seller. I will have to query this guy to find out where he got it but I wouldn't count on that going too far. It was in his stash. He owns a bar and his soundguy walked off and took his toys so this dude is hooking up his own toys. He already has two 1,300 watt QSCs which do sound damn good. I hooked them up and phased the speakers.

But now he has this other amp and more speakers because the hairs in the kids' cochleas have been shaved off a bit. So they need more. Actually they are into bass bigtime and bass is not so bad for the ears.

But anyway, the thing doesn't seem to have any shorted outputs, it is not even in protection.

I might just have to do it the old fashioned way. Problemm is, I am not breaking the seal between those heatsinks and transistors.

Hm, on a side note, I get involved with the hifi crowd from time to time and I found out that some of them in restoring an old piece, actually take the outputs out and clean it all down and put new vird**** (heatsink cmpound) on them. I think this is crazy. It is settled in real nice. the thermal contact is probably the best it'l ever be and better then it'll ever need to be. What's more if you have mica insulators and stress them wrong they delineate. And I bet they do not check for that. I have mentioned it but got no answers back. I guess you could do that if you want it to look nice, but use new insulators then if you want to have a boat in your livingroom. (boat = hole in water to throw money in)

And I bet they spread it too, instad of putting it evenly at the main force to squeeze it out so there are no air pockets. I told a coworker that 1,000 times and he wouldn't listen. I tried and tried, it makes sense dude, WTF is wrong with you ? Nothing. Ignorance and I bet willful. My old source of this bad information is better than what you say about it that actually makes sense - even though my credentials are better.

****ing people amaze me. Gotta watch Dr. Hoo. Or wait, not Dr., Inspector or something. It is an ep of Get Smart, which is one of the best of all time BTW. I got a bunch of them. At least after watching them I might be able to put a little insanity into the insanity and enjoy it a bit.

Sorry for the rant. But then, it's Friday.
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Old April 11th 15, 10:24 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One OfThese ?

"** That is a USA made amplifier - not Pioneer.

FYI: Asian electronic gear has metric thread bolts and I but that POS has Yankee ones. "


How could you tell that from the picures ? those aren't even the hi res ones. (not that they're all that good)

"If the middle pin on a large flyt pak is not a collector, then the devices are lateral Mosfets."


Never heard of them befroe but oww tht I had a look around the net I se that possible. they said the bias rquirements are similar to bipolar, I assume that means voltage ? I mean, if you have to drive it with current then youo are back where you started. Regardless I did nmeasure about the same voltage on two adjacent pins and a far awy voltage on the other end in all cases. I found the coil whee it comes out and it has no offsaet. The relays are separate fro each channels and I hear them both click in. There is no heavy drain. ust a surge when it comes on. It is pretty hard for it to be anythoing but someting in the signal path rather than the power amps themselves.

I might just have to figure it out myself. But now I am even more adamant about not breaking the seals on those outputs. If I have to pull that channel I will get them but other than that **** it. The other channel I am leaving alone of course.

I am almost intereted in seeng the actual curves n **** on these lateral FETs. I doubt I'll ever use one purposely in a circuit, but it is nice to know. Like when you read a Tektronix manual and it explains all about tunnel diodes and unijunction transistors. Actually worht the read but, once.


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Old April 11th 15, 01:33 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One OfThese ?

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 1:40:56 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I also don't recall anything by Pioneer
with a fan (although I may have missed something).


I guess you missed the joy of the low end Pioneer receivers that had what we call the "music to smoke converter" module. It was a Borg type cube that had all the outputs plus the two driver boards stuffed into a chimney with an exhaust fan that would blow the smoke from the inevitable failure quickly out the back.

http://s753.photobucket.com/user/ron...p-003.jpg.html
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Old April 11th 15, 02:08 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One OfThese ?

This unit looks to me like an older Crest amp. They usually have markings on the front, but this one may have either worn off or been removed. Crest systems don't usually have the name on the back either.

The Pioneer name on the back looks like someone added it on.

Dan
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Old April 12th 15, 06:19 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Pioneer Pro Amp With No Model Number, Anyone Ever See One OfThese ?

wrote:

"** That is a USA made amplifier - not Pioneer.

FYI: Asian electronic gear has metric thread bolts and I but that POS has Yankee ones. "


How could you tell that from the picures ?


** ROTFL !!

I can tell it's a USA made from the pics - lotsa clues that you see only in US made amps.

CONFIRMATION can be had by looking at the threads on the bolts, US threads = US made.


.... Phil







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