On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 08:01:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:45:30 -0800:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=husqvarna+chainsaw+brake+repa ir
Trying to do the same with a text search is much less useful.

That found this video, which, I must say, is doing things the hard way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PIDvWmJEo4

Good find. I rather like the way he did it. However, he was lucky
that the spring didn't fly off. Actually, I don't really like the
screwdriver which might slip putting a hole in my other hand. I used
pliers, which will make a smaller hole.

I also don't like your "easy way" of pushing the spring from the other
end using the plastic parts. The spring could bend and break the
projecting white prong thing as it is bent into position. While it
takes more brute force to shove the spring in place as in the above
video, there's less risk to breaking plastic parts.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Sat, 21 Feb 2015 09:35:54 -0800:

I also don't like your "easy way" of pushing the spring from the other
end using the plastic parts. The spring could bend and break the
projecting white prong thing as it is bent into position. While it
takes more brute force to shove the spring in place as in the above
video, there's less risk to breaking plastic parts.

Hi Jeff,

I don't disagree with you that there is a risk of breaking the nylon
insert.

The biggest risk, I would think, is that you have to do the procedure
about a dozen times before you realize the key elements to avoid, most
of which revolve around the spring bouncing all over the garage.

That spring flew into the air at least a half-dozen times on me, and,
I was amazed. You don't see it. You may hear it land, but each time it
flew, there was absolutely no way I could *see* where it went.

I'm surprised the thing moves that fast.

Today I cut a trail about 500 feet down a mountain. I have another
2000 feet or so to go, and I'll have a dandy shortcut! Whew! Time
to wash off that poison oak covering my body.

I have a secret formula:
1. I shower with Dawn detergent over every inch of my body (surfactant).
2. I splash a very dilute solution of bleach (to oxidize the alcohol/oil).
3. I soap down with Dawn (or Palmolive) again, to wash off the alcohol/oil.

Seems to work.

On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 08:01:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

That found this video, which, I must say, is doing things the hard way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PIDvWmJEo4

Looked easy. I wonder how he lost part of his left thumb?

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:45:30 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


Incidentally, I just blundered across this video on the 455 that
claims there's a "special tool" for reinstalling the brake spring.
I'll ask the local dealer or rep for the specifics. It's no in the
catalog.

From your image link, I found this tool made to compress the spring.

"...made a tool up to compress the spring back in place. This works
with the handle off, with the handle on, with the brake spring in
place and the spring out with little effort."

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/hardest-repair-ever-chain-brake-assembly.90197/page-2

https://tinyurl.com/qarvqr3

On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 19:14:47 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I don't disagree with you that there is a risk of breaking the nylon
insert.

On later models, the nylon prong morphed into a metal equivalent:
http://s51.photobucket.com/user/mantidontowel/media/husqvarna/032408offhusqcorespondprocdureil-17.jpg.html
My guess(tm) is that this would not happen unless there was a problem.

The biggest risk, I would think, is that you have to do the procedure
about a dozen times before you realize the key elements to avoid, most
of which revolve around the spring bouncing all over the garage.

I was wondering why some of the videos showed little effort involved
in retaining the spring after insertion, while others showed a major
nightmare keeping the spring from flying away. Looking at a few
videos, I found that all the springs had the ends filed flat as in:
http://s51.photobucket.com/user/mantidontowel/media/husqvarna/032408offhusqcorespondprocdureil-15.jpg.html
(Sorry, that's best I could find). Theoretically, that provides even
pressure to the case when the spring is inserted. However, the thin
part of the ground down spring end provides much less pressure than
the thicker part. The vertical part of the end of the slot in the
orange case, is also not quite vertical to allow for mold release.
That means that different orientations of the spring in the slot offer
different side pressure, which is what causes the spring to buckle and
fly away. With the heavy part of the ground down end on top, the
spring is pushed down, which keeps it from being launched. With the
heavy part of the ground down end at the bottom of the slot, the
spring will buckle out of the slot, causing the spring launches which
you experienced. However, if the end of the slot is radically off
vertical, the spring will buckle and launch, no matter how the spring
is rotated.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting
different results. If it doesn't work, either try something different
or stop to figure out why it's failing. Methinks "a dozen times" is
too many.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Sat, 21 Feb 2015 16:06:40 -0800:
On later models, the nylon prong morphed into a metal equivalent:
http://s51.photobucket.com/user/mantidontowel/media/husqvarna/032408offhusqcorespondprocdureil-17.jpg.html

That's a nice find, Jeff, as I would have expected the nylon post
to be too fragile also.

I was wondering why some of the videos showed little effort involved
in retaining the spring after insertion, while others showed a major
nightmare keeping the spring from flying away.

Yup. For example, when I tried the chain-brake-lever trick, my spring
flew out from under the chain brake so fast I didn't even see where
it went. Yet, in the video, the guy made it look so easy (although,
it's a lot harder than he made it look to get the clutch plate on
when the brake is set. It's like trying to get a car drum on when
the drum brakes are in the set position.)

I found that all the springs had the ends filed flat as in:
http://s51.photobucket.com/user/mantidontowel/media/husqvarna/032408offhusqcorespondprocdureil-15.jpg.html

Yes. BOTH ends are filed flat on my spring also.

However, the thin
part of the ground down spring end provides much less pressure than
the thicker part.

Very interesting (and astute) observation.

That means that different orientations of the spring in the slot offer
different side pressure, which is what causes the spring to buckle and
fly away.
Makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes my spring stayed in relatively well; other times it flew off.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting
different results. If it doesn't work, either try something different
or stop to figure out why it's failing. Methinks "a dozen times" is
too many.

Ah, but *each* of the dozen times was using a different set of tools
and procedures. In the end, I think I came up with the *easiest* and
safest way possible, which borrowed heavily from the video you found,
but, which also added the unique element of "leveraging" the spring on
from the closed end (everyone else "compressed" the spring from the open
end).

I saw your post where you thought that might be dangerous, but, the spring
isn't compressed any more in either method, so, I think it's OK, as long
as there is a temporary cover plate.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 18:37:04 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

However, the thin
part of the ground down spring end provides much less pressure than
the thicker part.

Very interesting (and astute) observation.

In the distant past, I worked as a sewing machine "attachment maker"
in my father's garment factory. Such spring related problems were
part of the learning experience.

Ah, but *each* of the dozen times was using a different set of tools
and procedures.

After a dozen attempts, with different tools and procedures, perhaps
you might consider that something is wrong that does NOT involve the
tool or procedure? Hint: That which is most obviously correct,
beyond any need of checking, is usually the problem. In this case, it
was the rotation of the spring, which is never mentioned in any of the
videos or instructions.

In the end, I think I came up with the *easiest* and
safest way possible, which borrowed heavily from the video you found,
but, which also added the unique element of "leveraging" the spring on
from the closed end (everyone else "compressed" the spring from the open
end).

It's possibly easier, but as I mentioned, carries the risk of breaking
the plastic prong if the spring is excessively bent on insertion.
There's quite a bit of force in the spring and only a little of that
is required to break the plastic prong.

I saw your post where you thought that might be dangerous, but, the spring
isn't compressed any more in either method, so, I think it's OK, as long
as there is a temporary cover plate.

I don't have any problem exposing myself to danger. I'm considerably
more hesitant to do the same to readers trying to follow my
instructions. Think of it as litigation avoidance. Just pretend
you're writing the repair instructions for the teenage daughter of a
successful personal injury attorney.

The dangerous part is the requirement to hold the chain saw casing in
an area where the tool might land if it slips. It's considered a good
idea to think about where tools will land should they slip. I have a
few knife cuts on my left hand to assist in remembering this
principle. A vise won't work because it will tend to rotate as
pressure is applied. A backstop to push against (such as the bench
vise in one of the videos) is probably good enough, unless the casing
decides to rotate and go sideways.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 10:57:15 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

that something is wrong that does NOT involve the
tool or procedure? Hint: That which is most obviously correct,
beyond any need of checking, is usually the problem.

Occam's razor?

"...The principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with
the fewest assumptions should be selected. Other, more complicated
solutions may ultimately prove correct, but—in the absence of
certainty—the fewer assumptions that are made, the better."

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Sun, 22 Feb 2015 10:57:15 -0800:

After a dozen attempts, with different tools and procedures, perhaps you
might consider that something is wrong that does NOT involve the tool or
procedure? Hint: That which is most obviously correct, beyond any need
of checking, is usually the problem. In this case, it was the rotation of
the spring, which is never mentioned in any of the videos or instructions

In hindsight, with a dozen of these attempts under my belt, my advice
would be to never remove the clutch plate when the chainsaw brake is in
the tightened position!

That's apparently the root of all the problems! (Inexperience.)

The second most important admonition is to NEVER REMOVE ANYTHING from
the clutch plate! All of us made the mistake of removing the spring
in our attempts to get it back in the locked position.

But, the trick is to MAKE THE SPECIAL SOCKET TOOL so that we can twist
the star wheel back into the unlocked position, without removing anything!

With those two tricks (i.e., experience), the job is easy because the
spring is never removed. The only step needed is the unlocking step.

Once the spring is actually removed, then TWO steps are required, namely
the insertion of the spring, and then the unlocking of the spring.

In the insertion step, a vise is (almost certainly) mandatory, as is
a temporary cover plate. Everyone but I compressed the spring from the
open end, simply because that was the only accessible end.

I made the closed end accessible by removing the retaining ring, which
allowed me to leverage the spring into place. Without a cover plate,
this would never have worked, so, that's why the cover plate is mandatory
if the spring is to be re-inserted.

Once the spring is inserted, then we're back to the trick of using the
star-shaped socket.

In summary, these are what I would have HOPED someone would have told
me, *before* I took the spring out in the first place!

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Sun, 22 Feb 2015 10:57:15 -0800:

Just pretend you're writing the
repair instructions for the teenage daughter of a successful personal
injury attorney.



You really would like the inventors' lunch we go to in Palo Alto every
Wednesday at noon ....

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:25:45 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 10:57:15 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

that something is wrong that does NOT involve the
tool or procedure? Hint: That which is most obviously correct,
beyond any need of checking, is usually the problem.

Occam's razor?

No. It's my variation of Finagle's 3rd Law.
In any collection of data, the figure most obviously correct,
beyond all need of checking, is the mistake.

There are also corollaries:
- No person asked for assistance will see the mistake.
- Everyone who drifts by with unsought advice will see it immediately.

to which I've added:
- Nothing can be done to fix a problem until the blame is assigned.
- The person who identifies the problem will be sentenced to
overtime in order to fix the problem.
- Never blame the person who is expected to fix the problem.
Blaming the uninvolved, innocent, and those on vacation is
usually best.
- The application of an expensive, ugly, and marginal band aid to
fix a problem is preferred over admitting that there is a problem.
- Once the blame is assigned, this genie cannot be stuffed back
into its bottle.
- Blood, fire, and smoke are sure signs of a problem.
- When deciding on an approach, the prime criteria for acceptance
is determining which scheme will keep the phone from ringing.
- If one person can do something in one hour, two people will take
two hours, three people will take three hours, etc.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:13:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Sun, 22 Feb 2015 10:57:15 -0800:

Just pretend you're writing the
repair instructions for the teenage daughter of a successful personal
injury attorney.



You really would like the inventors' lunch we go to in Palo Alto every
Wednesday at noon ....

There are old inventors and bold inventors, but no old and bold
inventors. The successful inventors don't have time to attend
meetings. The losers talk about inventing things, but rarely go
further. Those that boldly go further, get sued for infringement. I
suspect that membership is therefore self-limiting to those that don't
invent anything.

I've attended writers guild meetings, where everyone talks about
writing, but nobody writes. I erratically attend ham radio meetings,
where few of those attending know which end of the soldering iron to
grab. I attended flying club meetings, where the main topic of
discussion were administrative matters, and not flying. At least when
I attend a concert, I can be certain that I'll hear some music. I
can't imagine what I would do at an inventors lunch meeting? Invent
something on the table cloth? If I'm expected to invent something
during lunch, I would need access to my reference material so that I
know what to steal.

The adage about the teenage daughter of the personal injury attorney
was told to me many years ago by a successful attorney in a discussion
on how to avoid ending up in court. So far, his advice has been quite
useful and accurate.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

replying to Danny D., Will Boyd wrote:
Be nice to know if Husqvarna makes a tool for it, but you can buy the entire
side (spring installed) for about $20 and the tool would probably cost that
much or more.

--
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