I saw this in two other groups. Are you just out to bash? Are you actually
reading the replies?


No I just post for fun and profit. hehe.

I am not bashing Husqvarna but I am posting to my 3 favorite groups. It
would be 4 groups but I dont think that alt.bread.recipes cares about 9hp
chainsaws.

If I was more aware of the dealer / mfgr situation I would of bought locally
on this purchase as this saw could require alot of service. I am using it to
mill lumber with an alaskan jig. But in the end I am glad I did not buy from
the dealer as he is really a jerk to deal with. I called the owner
personally and we had an amiable discussion but he still had the opinion
that I was just out to wreck his business by buying over the cursed
internet. I've since called other dealers and they are happy to look at it
or work on it warranty if it needs it. Only difference is I have to drive 20
miles instead of 2.

Personally I would rather have the dealer prove himself worthy of my future
business than lip service and still get bad service after buying at dealer
prices. That happened to me with John Deere.

For that I'll take the discount online, if all I have is thieves and liars
to deal with then I'll take the lowest price, just like at the car dealer.
hehe.

Rich

PS( My Lowes Poulon 49cc 20 inch saw is kicking butt. I've cut down about 19
palm trees, 1 oak and 1 hackberry plus other trimming jobs etc and I am
amazed it works so well. I did not expect much out of it so I guess I am
happy with whatever I get!)

"Rich" wrote in message . com...
I saw this in two other groups. Are you just out to bash? Are you actually
reading the replies?


No I just post for fun and profit. hehe.

I am not bashing Husqvarna but I am posting to my 3 favorite groups. It
would be 4 groups but I dont think that alt.bread.recipes cares about 9hp
chainsaws.

If I was more aware of the dealer / mfgr situation I would of bought locally
on this purchase as this saw could require alot of service. I am using it to
mill lumber with an alaskan jig. But in the end I am glad I did not buy from
the dealer as he is really a jerk to deal with. I called the owner
personally and we had an amiable discussion but he still had the opinion
that I was just out to wreck his business by buying over the cursed
internet. I've since called other dealers and they are happy to look at it
or work on it warranty if it needs it. Only difference is I have to drive 20
miles instead of 2.

Personally I would rather have the dealer prove himself worthy of my future
business than lip service and still get bad service after buying at dealer
prices. That happened to me with John Deere.

For that I'll take the discount online, if all I have is thieves and liars
to deal with then I'll take the lowest price, just like at the car dealer.
hehe.

Rich

PS( My Lowes Poulon 49cc 20 inch saw is kicking butt. I've cut down about 19
palm trees, 1 oak and 1 hackberry plus other trimming jobs etc and I am
amazed it works so well. I did not expect much out of it so I guess I am
happy with whatever I get!)

I agree with Rich's perspective above. The internet and the Borg's
are the biggest reason why the local dealer should extend every
courtesy possible. Within reason of course. While noone can deny
that there are those that will go for the lowest price everytime, a
certain number of people will return to the service oriented dealer.
This guy just guaranteed he will make no profit from Rich. And, as
someone else pointed out, if this guy lost money on warranty work, he
wouldn't do it. If they do, they're stupid. I would venture to
guess, the profit just wasn't big enough for the guy. Which is one of
the reasons we have the Borg's. The big retail profit centers may be
monopolistic in nature, but one thing they do NOT have a monopoly
on...is greed. This is, of course, just my opinion.

Spaz

SpazMaTaz wrote:
"Rich" wrote in message . com...

I saw this in two other groups. Are you just out to bash? Are you actually
reading the replies?


No I just post for fun and profit. hehe.

I am not bashing Husqvarna but I am posting to my 3 favorite groups. It
would be 4 groups but I dont think that alt.bread.recipes cares about 9hp
chainsaws.

If I was more aware of the dealer / mfgr situation I would of bought locally
on this purchase as this saw could require alot of service. I am using it to
mill lumber with an alaskan jig. But in the end I am glad I did not buy from
the dealer as he is really a jerk to deal with. I called the owner
personally and we had an amiable discussion but he still had the opinion
that I was just out to wreck his business by buying over the cursed
internet. I've since called other dealers and they are happy to look at it
or work on it warranty if it needs it. Only difference is I have to drive 20
miles instead of 2.

Personally I would rather have the dealer prove himself worthy of my future
business than lip service and still get bad service after buying at dealer
prices. That happened to me with John Deere.

For that I'll take the discount online, if all I have is thieves and liars
to deal with then I'll take the lowest price, just like at the car dealer.
hehe.

Rich

PS( My Lowes Poulon 49cc 20 inch saw is kicking butt. I've cut down about 19
palm trees, 1 oak and 1 hackberry plus other trimming jobs etc and I am
amazed it works so well. I did not expect much out of it so I guess I am
happy with whatever I get!)


I agree with Rich's perspective above. The internet and the Borg's
are the biggest reason why the local dealer should extend every
courtesy possible. Within reason of course. While noone can deny
that there are those that will go for the lowest price everytime, a
certain number of people will return to the service oriented dealer.
This guy just guaranteed he will make no profit from Rich. And, as
someone else pointed out, if this guy lost money on warranty work, he
wouldn't do it. If they do, they're stupid. I would venture to
guess, the profit just wasn't big enough for the guy. Which is one of
the reasons we have the Borg's. The big retail profit centers may be
monopolistic in nature, but one thing they do NOT have a monopoly
on...is greed. This is, of course, just my opinion.

I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him. I went down to the local Ace to get a
30 amp 2 pole breaker. The breaker is behind a locked
glass and is blister packed. It's $26. I go to Home
Depot, 4 miles away, the breaker is open in a bin, I
can look at it, and it's $8. Where the fsk are you
going to buy your breaker?

I live in a somewhat upscale college community. The
local equipment rental place charges a hefty daily charge
including Sunday on everything. If I drive 5 miles to
the largely ag community down the road, the shop of
the very same rental chain charges 30% less and gives
Sunday free if the equipment is returned by 8AM monday.
Where would you rent?

Both the Ace store and the rental shop seem to be
quite busy so I assume their business model works for
them. It sure doesn't for me.

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
SpazMaTaz wrote:
"Rich" wrote in message
. com...

snip---

I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him. I went down to the local Ace to get a
30 amp 2 pole breaker. The breaker is behind a locked
glass and is blister packed. It's $26. I go to Home
Depot, 4 miles away, the breaker is open in a bin, I
can look at it, and it's $8. Where the fsk are you
going to buy your breaker?

I live in a somewhat upscale college community. The
local equipment rental place charges a hefty daily charge
including Sunday on everything. If I drive 5 miles to
the largely ag community down the road, the shop of
the very same rental chain charges 30% less and gives
Sunday free if the equipment is returned by 8AM monday.
Where would you rent?

Both the Ace store and the rental shop seem to be
quite busy so I assume their business model works for
them. It sure doesn't for me.

I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog. No
big deal, especially when I saved $300, plus 7.7% sales tax on the $800
price. No sales tax paid on the $500 purchase.

Some folks see every sale as a retirement plan, so I can't get too excited
about supporting them. I purchased common seals from the local dude
because I was in a bind. $12 each for $6 seals. His screw the consumer
prices are outrageous, always well above market value. It's clear that
some folks do little to earn your patronage. I've tried to be a faithful
customer, but I can't afford to be. I now shop everywhere except for his
store.

Harold

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...

SpazMaTaz wrote:

"Rich" wrote in message

. com...

snip---

I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him. I went down to the local Ace to get a
30 amp 2 pole breaker. The breaker is behind a locked
glass and is blister packed. It's $26. I go to Home
Depot, 4 miles away, the breaker is open in a bin, I
can look at it, and it's $8. Where the fsk are you
going to buy your breaker?

I live in a somewhat upscale college community. The
local equipment rental place charges a hefty daily charge
including Sunday on everything. If I drive 5 miles to
the largely ag community down the road, the shop of
the very same rental chain charges 30% less and gives
Sunday free if the equipment is returned by 8AM monday.
Where would you rent?

Both the Ace store and the rental shop seem to be
quite busy so I assume their business model works for
them. It sure doesn't for me.


I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog. No
big deal, especially when I saved $300, plus 7.7% sales tax on the $800
price. No sales tax paid on the $500 purchase.

Some folks see every sale as a retirement plan, so I can't get too excited
about supporting them. I purchased common seals from the local dude
because I was in a bind. $12 each for $6 seals. His screw the consumer
prices are outrageous, always well above market value. It's clear that
some folks do little to earn your patronage. I've tried to be a faithful
customer, but I can't afford to be. I now shop everywhere except for his
store.

I have my own business and I've been in business for
about 7 years. My wife and I make a comfortable living
at it, we have some control over our destiny and we
get to *mostly* make our own rules. The three main
rules are 1) build something that works and doesn't
hurt someone. 2) tell the truth to customers, vendors
and each other. 3) price our products so that we can
make a comfortable living. I've learned that this gets
us the most consistent revenue stream and generally
keeps our customers from switching to another company
that may introduce a product with a slightly lower price.
I've tried setting a higher initial price and dropping
it later to try to get market share. It doesn't work.
The damage has already been done. On the other side of
it, I've turned down a couple of big customers because
I couldn't make a comfortable living meeting their
terms. The ability to say no is just as big of a
negotiating tool as the ability to say yes.

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog.

We can all find exceptions. It pays to be a smart consumer and do some
homework. I can also give exceptions the other way around. I needed a
refrigerator part for the ice maker. Big store wanted $60 for the part,
Internet was $55, local guy was $40 not for the part but for a hole new
unit.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for
$500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog.

We can all find exceptions. It pays to be a smart consumer and do some
homework. I can also give exceptions the other way around. I needed a
refrigerator part for the ice maker. Big store wanted $60 for the part,
Internet was $55, local guy was $40 not for the part but for a hole new
unit.
Ed

Yep! The key to this whole scenario is to shop. Often I've been
pleasantly surprised to find the best deal at the least likely place. and
that includes the guy you'd swear would not compete.

When you live on SS, you don't toss your money around like it's from a
bottomless well. Our lifestyle is a humble one, but we live as
comfortably as we choose, and do it on minimum money by not being wasteful
or stupid in how we use what we have. In order to do that, we have learned
to shop before we buy. It always pays benefits.

Harold

You will, of course, pay the appropriate tax on your out-of state purchase,
though?

I know I always do....

I could use a brush hog too, but first the hydraulics for the front blade.
Dragging snow is tougher than pushing it.

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog. No
big deal, especially when I saved $300, plus 7.7% sales tax on the $800
price. No sales tax paid on the $500 purchase.

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
snip-----------

.. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."

Done deal, and for ever. Any time I find a business that has that kind of
attitude, I not only don't patronize them, but I make sure that others
understand their attitude. There's nothing like negative advertising to
sink a business, and it's the cheapest and easiest advertising a person can
get, with plenty to go around. All it takes is a go-to-hell attitude
displayed to the consumer like the example above.

So, guess who _doesn't_ get my 3-5 fillups a week now?

Small wonder! g

Interestingly, a local hardware store recently learned how to sharpen their
pencil. A few years back I needed some damp proofing for the foundation
of the shop. They wanted double the price asked at Home Depot. The 50
mile drive one way was worth the trip because we needed a few pails. Of
late, however, they seem in tune with more reasonable pricing and we've been
spending our money with them. Smart business people don't rely on
screwing the consumer if they want to be in business tomorrow. All too
many of them chase business away that way. For the most part, they're now
getting a wakeup call in our community. HD is going to open a local store,
and Wal-Mart has one of the largest stores in the western US near us.
There's considerable bitching, but it's going to get things on an even keel
here. In the end, more of the local dollars will remain here, instead of
going to other communities where prices are reasonable.

Harold

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
snip-----------

. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."

Done deal, and for ever. Any time I find a business that has that kind
of
attitude, I not only don't patronize them, but I make sure that others
understand their attitude. There's nothing like negative advertising
to
sink a business, and it's the cheapest and easiest advertising a person
can
get, with plenty to go around. All it takes is a go-to-hell attitude
displayed to the consumer like the example above.

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

Joel. phx

"George" wrote in message
...
You will, of course, pay the appropriate tax on your out-of state
purchase,
though?

I know I always do....

Oh, yeah! I'm always the first guy in line on Monday morning. I consider
it an honor to be paying taxes in a state that is near the highest one in
the nation in taxation and can't find enough reasons or ways to get them
even higher. That isn't preventing them from trying, though.

I could use a brush hog too, but first the hydraulics for the front blade.
Dragging snow is tougher than pushing it.

Good luck with that project. The best scenario is to live where there's
no snow. Notice I don't practice what I preach? g

Harold

"Here's an idea" wrote in message
...
snip---

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

Joel. phx

Talk about biting the hand the feeds you!

Harold

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:27:43 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him.

Hmmm, I'm asking myself the same question as I look at fuel prices.
Our biggest local dealer, who used to be a mom & pop of long-standing
in the community, was purchased by "city people," a couple of years
ago, (literally, NYC "investors") and now refuses to deliver anything
less than 150 gal. at a pop, and at nearly $1.60/gal this is a bit
much for *many* people in this tiny burg to cough up at a time (myself
included, sometimes). Their excuse is, "With everybody only buying
100 gallons at a time, we can't keep up with the deliveries." Huh??
A competitor will gladly deliver of theirs will gladly deliver less.

A survey of local kerosene prices (at the pump) yields $1.95/gal for
the "local guy" and $1.63/gal for the town 11 miles away (further
south, that is). I've been asking myself for several years now, since
our local grocery chain started charging "screw you" prices year
'round, rather than just in the summer, "When did the local, small
business model become &$#@* the Locals?"

Some folks see every sale as a retirement plan, so I can't get too excited
about supporting them.

Amen! Another local fuel dealer, this one a gas station, (also owned
by a transplanted city dude, oddly enough..hmmm, notice a trend?) was
on the gas roller coaster recently, but keeping prices apace with the
larger community down the road. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."
So, guess who _doesn't_ get my 3-5 fillups a week now?


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I learned that lesson from a former employee years ago. He told of working
for an old guy who sent him out for some item to purchase. When the guy
returned with his purchase and showed the old guy the price, the guy asked
him what the other two prices were.. Employee said "HUH?" That has always
stuck with me, and getting at least 3 prices for anything over around $50 is
now what I do.

RJ

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for
$500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog.

We can all find exceptions. It pays to be a smart consumer and do some
homework. I can also give exceptions the other way around. I needed a
refrigerator part for the ice maker. Big store wanted $60 for the part,
Internet was $55, local guy was $40 not for the part but for a hole new
unit.
Ed

Yep! The key to this whole scenario is to shop. Often I've been
pleasantly surprised to find the best deal at the least likely place. and
that includes the guy you'd swear would not compete.

When you live on SS, you don't toss your money around like it's from a
bottomless well. Our lifestyle is a humble one, but we live as
comfortably as we choose, and do it on minimum money by not being wasteful
or stupid in how we use what we have. In order to do that, we have
learned
to shop before we buy. It always pays benefits.

Harold

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:13:09 GMT, (Chuck)
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:27:43 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:

Amen! Another local fuel dealer, this one a gas station, (also owned
by a transplanted city dude, oddly enough..hmmm, notice a trend?) was
on the gas roller coaster recently, but keeping prices apace with the
larger community down the road. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."
So, guess who _doesn't_ get my 3-5 fillups a week now?

No excuse for bad attitude, but gas prices are an odd case. Assume a
station buys 3,000 gallons at a time (pretty typical). They sell it at
a price that is usually 1-5 cents above their invoice (plus all the
taxes). If the price of gas goes up 3 cents and they were selling at 2
cents over cost they have to dig into profit from other sales to cover
the increase, but they can recoup that as they sell the new load. The
problem comes when the price starts to drop. If the station across the
street buys a new load that is 6 cents cheaper and cuts their retail
price while you still have 2,000 gallons in the tanks you are pretty
much up the proverbial creek sans paddle. If you price match the guy
across the street you lose money on every gallon you sell. If you
don't it takes forever to empty your tank and refill with cheaper gas.
Most stations split the difference.

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only
sell gas usually have the highest prices because they have to make
enough profit to run the business, and that will depend on volume and
the local competition.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

In article ,
Here's an idea wrote:

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
snip-----------

. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."

Done deal, and for ever. Any time I find a business that has that kind
of
attitude, I not only don't patronize them, but I make sure that others
understand their attitude. There's nothing like negative advertising
to
sink a business, and it's the cheapest and easiest advertising a person
can
get, with plenty to go around. All it takes is a go-to-hell attitude
displayed to the consumer like the example above.

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

If they shop efficiently, in the $250-300/month range. However, grocery
stores are a _low_ margin operation. 4% gross profit is a "healthy" store.
that $300 of revenues means maybe $10-12 gross profits.

Then, there's the _other_ side of the story. The town I grew up in was
considerably bigger -- metro area circa 250,000 -- but it was a one-
newspaper town. Just after the Korean conflict, the paper raised it's
ad rates significantly. The local owner of three grocery stores went
in to 'talk about it'. The paper said, in almost so many words, "If you
don't like our rates, advertise in another newspaper". He pulled _all_
his newspaper advertising. Eliminated 'advertising' as a line-item in
his budget. *REDUCED* his shelf prices by the amount of the expense
reduction. Sent a one-time mailing to every household in town, announcing
why he wouldn't be running any more newspaper ads, what he'd done with
his prices, and asking people to patronize his stores. 15 years later,
he had 10 stores in town, and the _smallest_ of his stores did twice
the volume of the next-largest store in town.

Since that time, they've run a newspaper ad precisely _once_. And _never_
done any radio or TV advertising. The one occasion was to mark the opening
of a new "showplace" store -- lots of exotic vegetables, etc. And more than
twice the square footage of any prior store.

They bought one full-page ad, and the newspaper ran a THREE PAGE (three _full_
pages, including the entire front page of the 'family' section) "feature"
story about the new store. (Yes, the newspaper management was _drooling_
at the thought that they might start behaving like a 'regular' grocery
again -- picking up several full pages of ads every week.)

They're a _strange_ operation. They don't advertise -- that one newspaper
ad was the *only* piece of paid-for advertising they've done in more than
FIFTY YEARS now. They don't even hang sale signs in the windows. Or
have sale flyers in the store. Their prices are generally stable/predictable,
and -- except for 'loss-leader' sale items at other stores -- usually lower
than at the competition. Combined with superior customer-service (would you
believe that they _still_ have the 'bag boys' take groceries to your car
and load 'em for you?), it's a _very_ successful model.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:40:01 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
No excuse for bad attitude, but gas prices are an odd case. Assume a
station buys 3,000 gallons at a time (pretty typical). They sell it at
a price that is usually 1-5 cents above their invoice (plus all the
taxes). If the price of gas goes up 3 cents and they were selling at 2
cents over cost they have to dig into profit from other sales to cover
the increase, but they can recoup that as they sell the new load. The
problem comes when the price starts to drop. If the station across the
street buys a new load that is 6 cents cheaper and cuts their retail
price while you still have 2,000 gallons in the tanks you are pretty
much up the proverbial creek sans paddle. If you price match the guy
across the street you lose money on every gallon you sell. If you
don't it takes forever to empty your tank and refill with cheaper gas.
Most stations split the difference.

Most stations operate on a replacement cost basis. They adjust
their prices day by day according to the cost of replacement gas
on the wholesale market that day, whether they actually buy any
replacement gas that day or not. (Chain stations may actually
purchase futures contracts day by day, but independents rarely
have the capital to play that game, and just have to sweat out
a changing market.)

Pricing on the basis of replacement cost means they see an
increased profit margin on gas they bought cheaply in a rising
market, and a decreased profit margin on gas they bought dear
in a declining market. But they always generate enough money
to buy replacement gas on any given day. As long as the price
swings aren't too rapid and radical, they don't have to dip into
other revenues to refill their tanks.

Actually, most stations don't do it exactly that way. They do boost
prices immediately when the wholesale cost of gas goes up, but
they reduce prices more slowly as the wholesale price declines,
often waiting for a competitor to make the first move. That delay
helps to protect their profit margin in a declining market.

Jacking up prices on a commodity they already have in their
tanks is when charges of profiteering are heard, And when the
prices at different stations move the same way and the same
amount at about the same time, charges of price fixing start to
be heard.

Because nearly every station's prices seem to move so closely
in sync with every other station in a given area, collusion is a
tempting explanation. It usually isn't true, though. It is just the
way the modified replacement pricing models work out in a
competitive market.

Gary

It's interesting to note that where I live, the cost of auto gas here is
ALWAYS higher than any town in a 40 mile radius. On the "busy" side of
town, gas is about 5 or 6 cents higher than on the "dead" side of town,
along entry/exit routes. We have a real estate tycoon here who has his
hands into everything, and interestingly enough, he owns both high and lower
priced stations around here, including the highest, and the lowest. Also
owns a major propane distributor, along with a large liquid transport
trucking company. Hmmmm....

RJ


"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:40:01 -0800, Tim Douglass
wrote:
No excuse for bad attitude, but gas prices are an odd case. Assume a
station buys 3,000 gallons at a time (pretty typical). They sell it at
a price that is usually 1-5 cents above their invoice (plus all the
taxes). If the price of gas goes up 3 cents and they were selling at 2
cents over cost they have to dig into profit from other sales to cover
the increase, but they can recoup that as they sell the new load. The
problem comes when the price starts to drop. If the station across the
street buys a new load that is 6 cents cheaper and cuts their retail
price while you still have 2,000 gallons in the tanks you are pretty
much up the proverbial creek sans paddle. If you price match the guy
across the street you lose money on every gallon you sell. If you
don't it takes forever to empty your tank and refill with cheaper gas.
Most stations split the difference.

Most stations operate on a replacement cost basis. They adjust
their prices day by day according to the cost of replacement gas
on the wholesale market that day, whether they actually buy any
replacement gas that day or not. (Chain stations may actually
purchase futures contracts day by day, but independents rarely
have the capital to play that game, and just have to sweat out
a changing market.)

Pricing on the basis of replacement cost means they see an
increased profit margin on gas they bought cheaply in a rising
market, and a decreased profit margin on gas they bought dear
in a declining market. But they always generate enough money
to buy replacement gas on any given day. As long as the price
swings aren't too rapid and radical, they don't have to dip into
other revenues to refill their tanks.

Actually, most stations don't do it exactly that way. They do boost
prices immediately when the wholesale cost of gas goes up, but
they reduce prices more slowly as the wholesale price declines,
often waiting for a competitor to make the first move. That delay
helps to protect their profit margin in a declining market.

Jacking up prices on a commodity they already have in their
tanks is when charges of profiteering are heard, And when the
prices at different stations move the same way and the same
amount at about the same time, charges of price fixing start to
be heard.

Because nearly every station's prices seem to move so closely
in sync with every other station in a given area, collusion is a
tempting explanation. It usually isn't true, though. It is just the
way the modified replacement pricing models work out in a
competitive market.

Gary

"Here's an idea" writes:

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

I can't imagine any family spending enough on groceries for the store to
make a $300 profit per month on one family.

Yes, it feels good to do this sorts of things, but it doesn't really hurt
the store all that much. Many store owners would gladly trade a $50 loss
in profit for a $300 savings in expense.

Brian Elfert

Tim Douglass writes:

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only

Why would any c-store add pay at the pump if they make little or no money
on the gas?

Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Brian Elfert

(Robert Bonomi) writes:

They bought one full-page ad, and the newspaper ran a THREE PAGE (three _full_
pages, including the entire front page of the 'family' section) "feature"
story about the new store. (Yes, the newspaper management was _drooling_
at the thought that they might start behaving like a 'regular' grocery
again -- picking up several full pages of ads every week.)

I work for a large metro newspaper, and yes, grocery stores are huge
advertisers. The owner of one chain went bankrupt and we lost several
million dollars as a result of the bankruptcy.

Now that I work at a newspaper, I have mixed feelings about advertising.
On the one hand, my job depends on advertising, but on the other hand I'd
rather pay less for the goods I buy.

There are three big grocers in town, two chains and SuperTarget. The two
chains advertise like crazy in all media. About the only advertising
SuperTarget does for food is a weekly insert in the sunday paper.

SuperTarget has lower prices on almost all groceries, in some cases far
lower. I stil go to the chains occasionally, but only because SuperTarget
doesn't carry as much.

Brian Elfert

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message news:40154254$0$41291

Now that I work at a newspaper, I have mixed feelings about advertising.
On the one hand, my job depends on advertising, but on the other hand I'd
rather pay less for the goods I buy.

Its one of them chicken/egg things. Unless they advertise, you won;t know
what the prices are, but it cost money to do that. Balance, I guess, is the
key. If sales go up from advertising, they can sell for less.
Ed

Robert Bonomi wrote: (clip) Combined with superior customer-service (would
you believe that they _still_ have the 'bag boys' take groceries to your car
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but will they repair my Husky chain saw, since I didn't buy it there?
G

In article ,
Leo Lichtman wrote:

Robert Bonomi wrote: (clip) Combined with superior customer-service (would
you believe that they _still_ have the 'bag boys' take groceries to your car
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but will they repair my Husky chain saw, since I didn't buy it there?
G



Knowing the way _this_ grocery store operates, they just *might*!

They've been known to go further out of their way for customers.

On 26 Jan 2004 16:23:45 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:
Tim Douglass writes:

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only

Why would any c-store add pay at the pump if they make little or no money
on the gas?

I think they do it because customers want it, other gas stations have it,
and they'd lose customer traffic if they didn't have it. (I don't think that
they're making little or no money on gas sales, though.)

Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Just based on my own experiences and observations, even though I always
pay for gas at the pump, *since I'm there*, I may also walk into the store
and pick up something else (quart of milk, loaf of bread, whatever). If I
had to make a *separate trip*, I probably wouldn't buy those things at the
convenience store, but *since I'm there anyway getting gas* I just might.
I also appreciate that pay at the pump means I don't have to stand in a
long line inside the store in order to make my other purchases.

Gary

On 26 Jan 2004 16:23:45 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:
Tim Douglass writes:

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only

Why would any c-store add pay at the pump if they make little or no money
on the gas?

Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Because they set the card reader on the pump up to be really finicky
- about a third of the time I get "Card unreadable, See Attendant"
error which gets you inside the store. The attendant doesn't have any
problems reading the card at the counter...

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote in message
SNIP
Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Because they set the card reader on the pump up to be really finicky
- about a third of the time I get "Card unreadable, See Attendant"
error which gets you inside the store. The attendant doesn't have any
problems reading the card at the counter...

-- Bruce --

My experience has been the exact opposite. When my debit card mag
strip was too worn for any store cashier to accept with a swipe, the
gas pumps always took it. Since that is basically what I use it for
95% of the time, I went about a year without replacing it even though
it was a PITA those few times I used it in a store.

Because they set the card reader on the pump up to be really finicky
- about a third of the time I get "Card unreadable, See Attendant"
error which gets you inside the store. The attendant doesn't have any
problems reading the card at the counter...



I simply use another pump or another station. Never have gone inside under
those rare circumstances. I'd be lost without my debit card.
Lane