"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The user manual specifically states that the watch runs a bit fast
with
new cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to
its
nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.

What a crap design then.

I repost this to point out that, in this context, there is nothing
remotely
humorous about "crap". No reasonable person would interpret it as
anything
but a slap.

Say that again when you understand English English, rather than American
English, William. As someone from the same country as the person who said
it, I can assure you that it *was* intended as humour. I understood it as
that. You, and the OP obviously didn't. I can understand him getting it
wrong, as I don't think I've seen him as a regular poster on here, so
maybe
doesn't understand the subtleties of transatlantic language exchanges,
but
you know better, as you've been involved in these conversations many many
times. In fact, come to think of it, on more than one occasion, you have
been the instigator of such interchanges, having said something that
others
have taken as offensive. Gareth has even posted to say that it was
intended
as humour, and to apologise if it was taken as anything other than that.
So
stop deliberately stirring the pot, will you ? The remark was *NOT*
intended
to be offensive to the OP, any more than mine along the same lines was.
Accept that, both of you, and get over it ...

Arfa, I think people too often take offense where none is intended. But if
you can't see that there is nothing even remotely suggesting humor or
irony
in the exchange... It is you who needs to understand us, not the other way
around.

Believe me, as someone who has been a wise-cracker all his life, and
sometimes gotten into trouble over it, I know whereof I speak.


Why can't you just accept that you are wrong ? You simply don't understand
the variety of humour that was in use here. When I come to America, I don't
pretend to be able to speak your variety of the language properly. I get by.
I hope I don't cause too much offense in things that I innocently say that
may be taken wrongly, and I try not to take any offense from anything said
back to me. A lot of the time, I don't understand what people are laughing
at in your comedy TV shows, and I'm sure that the same is true for you with
some of our 'comedy' offerings. So please don't try to pretend that you
fully understand everything about the way the language is spoken and used
here, whilst implying that we understand nothing about how you take offense.
Remember also, that we have been speaking this language for a lot longer
than you, so have had many hundreds of years more to develop strains of
humour that you might not understand. I'm sorry if this type of humour is
just too subtle for you - it certainly doesn't fall into the category of
"wisecracking" - but as I know you understand, when you haven't got your
'silly' head on, there is a huge difference between typical American
'straightforward' humour, and British humour, which often relies on
linguistic subtleties and double meanings.

I don't know how many more ways that I can say it to you. It *was* humour -
allbeit a variety that you seem unable to pick the bones out of. The comment
was *not* intended to be offensive no matter what you think, and would not
have been considered so by any British person.

Now please, whether you understand that or not, stop being a total prat,
climb down off your hobby horse, and just accept what I say.

Arfa

"spamtrap1888" wrote in message
...
On Jul 6, 6:18 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message

...











"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

But do you know [whether] any voltage drop is really NEEDED?

Gee, Phil, I thought you were omniscient.

Though you'd think the mechanical nature of the Accutron's timekeeping
process would remove any interaction with the electronics, it's not
so.

The user manual specifically states that the watch runs a bit fast
with
new
cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to its
nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.

What a crap design then.

Gareth.

Makes a bit of a mockery of the name "Accutron" ...


No one could have predicted that mercury button cells would be pulled
from the market. The more so because mercury laden twisty bulbs are
becoming all but mandatory.


Pay attention at the back. The comment was made in respect of the fact,
quoted from the user guide, that even with the original correct battery
type, when a new one was fitted, the watch would run fast for a few days
whilst the terminal voltage settled. Gareth suggested, with tongue in cheek
humour that is being misunderstood by William, that this made the design
"crap", a word that is used in the UK with a slightly different emphasis to
when it is used in America. I then followed on, with similar tongue in cheek
humour, that this unfortunate characteristic of the design, made a bit of a
mockery of the fact that the name was obviously based on the adjective
"accurate", which obviously, it isn't for those few days ...

The additional fact that the mercury cells are no longer available, is now
rather unfortunate for this aspect of the design, as the next nearest
available terminal voltage for a cell with the right footprint to fit the
watch, is high enough for the watch to think that it permanently has a 'new'
battery, so permanently runs inaccurately fast. Hence the OP's original
question.

Arfa

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:19:47 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

But do you know [whether] any voltage drop is really NEEDED?

Gee, Phil, I thought you were omniscient.

Though you'd think the mechanical nature of the Accutron's timekeeping
process would remove any interaction with the electronics, it's not so.

The user manual specifically states that the watch runs a bit fast with
new
cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to its
nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.

What a crap design then.
Gareth.

Sigh. If you have ever worn a spring wound watch of the period when
the Accutron was first introduced, you might change your opinion. When
compared to todays high accuracy, low power, LCD watches, the Accutron
is indeed inferior. When compared to the commodity watches of the
early 1960's, it was a miraculous improvement.

The Accutron has one transistor and one tuning fork. If you can build
a power supply voltage insensitive oscillator watch drive, with the
technology available in the early 1960's, you're welcome to try.

http://www.elektron.demon.co.uk/accutron.html

--
Jeff Liebermann

Frankly, I'm surprised that the humour of Gareth's remark passed so
completely over your head, Jeff ... :-\

Arfa

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


"TimB" wrote in message
...
This is a common problem with old cameras too as they often relied on the
stable voltage of a mercury cell for exposure metering.




What a crap design then.



Gareth.

LOL !!!!! Double LOL !!!!! ROTFLMAO !!! Go Gazzer, go !

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

Believe me, as someone who has been a wise-cracker all his life, and
sometimes gotten into trouble over it, I know whereof I speak.

Why can't you just accept that you are wrong ? You simply don't understand
the variety of humour that was in use here.

That's like saying you can hit someone over the head with a sledgehammer,
then claim it was supposed to be funny.

Arfa, I know how to write screenplays with foreshadowing and subtext! I had
a great sense of irony and sarcasm long before you were born.

The fact that calling something "crap" in English English is comic (which I
accept) is beside the point. That isn't what we're arguing about.

The issue is that you make a remark whose context to an American is
"serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
without feeling you have to take an responsibility for it. You just don't
get it, do you?

You are seriously devoid of common sense and common courtesy, two things I
didn't used to think you were short of.

Pay attention at the back. The comment was made in respect of the fact,
quoted from the user guide, that even with the original correct battery
type, when a new one was fitted, the watch would run fast for a few days
whilst the terminal voltage settled. Gareth suggested, with tongue in
cheek
humour that is being misunderstood by William, that this made the design
"crap", a word that is used in the UK with a slightly different emphasis
to
when it is used in America. I then followed on, with similar tongue in
cheek
humour, that this unfortunate characteristic of the design, made a bit of
a
mockery of the fact that the name was obviously based on the adjective
"accurate", which obviously, it isn't for those few days ...

I misunderstood nothing. You refuse to apologize for an offensive remark in
a situation where the listeners did not -- COULD NOT -- know the context.
How much more explanation does that need?

You cannot say whatever you like, then refuse to take responsibility because
the poor, benighted listeners didn't know.

"D" wrote in message
b.com...
On 7/7/2011 2:13 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
Both myself and Gareth are from the right side, and it seems to me that
you might have fallen into the usenet 'language trap', and are taking
the word "crap" to have an entirely different level of meaning...
Stop being so sensitive, and accept the remark for what it was. A simple
throw-away bit of leftpondian humour. Not a pop at you specifically, or
your hobby.

Arfa

More what I found troubling and what I was attempting to correct was the
ignorance regarding the significance of these timepieces, and the very
impressive technical achievement they represent, things which users of a
NG such as this one should find interesting. In terms of the "crap"
reference, you may be right about how the word is perceived in different
cultures, but if you and your friend made a bad choice of words, why is it
*ME* (and at least one other poster who also commented on the word) who
have "fallen into the usenet language trap". Perhaps you should stop
being so INsensitive.

Dan


Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use of
the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept that
this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an American,
you don't understand. And I don't mean that to be taken as an offensive
comment to you in particular, or Americans in general. I watch a lot of
American TV, and visit America regularly, and have done for many years, so
understand at least a little about your variety of humour. I'm sure that you
would have to agree that it is predominantly straightforward and obvious -
sort of 'verbal slapstick' if you like. Sometimes that works for British
audiences, and sometimes it doesn't, because we don't understand what the
'joke' is. By the same token, British humour is often very subtle, and can
hinge even on the way a single word is pronounced, or contextually used. I'm
sure that sometimes this works for Americans, and sometimes it doesn't,
exactly the same as with us and your humour. In this particular exchange,
Gareth's attempt at humour hasn't worked for you, or William or Jeff, so as
you are all Americans, this has to tell us that it's a variety of humour
that you have difficulty with, which is fair enough, and why Gareth
immediately apologised. And there it should have lain, except that William
won't let it go.

You also misunderstand the use of my phrase "the usenet language trap". We
all fall into it from both sides of the pond. Occasionally, some little
incident like this one. 'takes off' in this way, but mostly, regular posters
on here know the problem well, and if anyone does bother to make a comment,
it usually dies out within a post or two. As I have not seen you posting on
here before - and I may be wrong on that, or you might be a long-time
lurker - I assumed that you were new to a group that has many regulars on
both sides of the pond, and had not come across these linguistic nuances
before, and that was the reason that you had become so upset by what most
would have seen as a throw-away comment.

Every now and then, William jumps on something like this, and worries it
like a dog with a bone, as he is doing right now.

As to asking me to stop being insensitive, I really think that you should
stop and consider that remark, and perhaps think how you might feel about me
telling you to stop being *so* sensitive. This is usenet. We are all
grownups, and sometimes, grownups have spats. It's life. There is no
moderation as such on here, and it is not a forum or Google group or a
subset of any other net-based front end trawler. If you honestly think that
I am being insensitive, then just carry on posting. Sooner or later, for no
apparent reason, you will set light to one of the people on here that can be
really offensive. Then you will understand all about sensitivity ...

I say again, that what was intended was humour. Nothing against you, or your
watches, or the Bulova technology. Gareth has already apologised for his
remark, and I likewise apologise if you found my similar attempt at humour,
outside your understanding, and hence offensive. Now can we please leave it
at that ? And that especially includes you, William.

Arfa

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:05:08 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Frankly, I'm surprised that the humour of Gareth's remark passed so
completely over your head, Jeff ... :-\
Arfa

What humor? Besides, I only write humor, I never read it.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On 7/7/2011 6:42 PM, Arfa Daily wrote:


"D" wrote in message
b.com...
On 7/7/2011 2:13 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
Both myself and Gareth are from the right side, and it seems to me that
you might have fallen into the usenet 'language trap', and are taking
the word "crap" to have an entirely different level of meaning...
Stop being so sensitive, and accept the remark for what it was. A simple
throw-away bit of leftpondian humour. Not a pop at you specifically, or
your hobby.

Arfa

More what I found troubling and what I was attempting to correct was
the ignorance regarding the significance of these timepieces, and the
very impressive technical achievement they represent, things which
users of a NG such as this one should find interesting. In terms of
the "crap" reference, you may be right about how the word is perceived
in different cultures, but if you and your friend made a bad choice of
words, why is it *ME* (and at least one other poster who also
commented on the word) who have "fallen into the usenet language
trap". Perhaps you should stop being so INsensitive.

Dan


Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
of the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept
that this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an
American, you don't understand. And I don't mean that to be taken as an
offensive comment to you in particular, or Americans in general. I watch
a lot of American TV, and visit America regularly, and have done for
many years, so understand at least a little about your variety of
humour. I'm sure that you would have to agree that it is predominantly
straightforward and obvious - sort of 'verbal slapstick' if you like.
Sometimes that works for British audiences, and sometimes it doesn't,
because we don't understand what the 'joke' is. By the same token,
British humour is often very subtle, and can hinge even on the way a
single word is pronounced, or contextually used. I'm sure that sometimes
this works for Americans, and sometimes it doesn't, exactly the same as
with us and your humour. In this particular exchange, Gareth's attempt
at humour hasn't worked for you, or William or Jeff, so as you are all
Americans, this has to tell us that it's a variety of humour that you
have difficulty with, which is fair enough, and why Gareth immediately
apologised. And there it should have lain, except that William won't let
it go.

You also misunderstand the use of my phrase "the usenet language trap".
We all fall into it from both sides of the pond. Occasionally, some
little incident like this one. 'takes off' in this way, but mostly,
regular posters on here know the problem well, and if anyone does bother
to make a comment, it usually dies out within a post or two. As I have
not seen you posting on here before - and I may be wrong on that, or you
might be a long-time lurker - I assumed that you were new to a group
that has many regulars on both sides of the pond, and had not come
across these linguistic nuances before, and that was the reason that you
had become so upset by what most would have seen as a throw-away comment.

Every now and then, William jumps on something like this, and worries it
like a dog with a bone, as he is doing right now.

As to asking me to stop being insensitive, I really think that you
should stop and consider that remark, and perhaps think how you might
feel about me telling you to stop being *so* sensitive. This is usenet.
We are all grownups, and sometimes, grownups have spats. It's life.
There is no moderation as such on here, and it is not a forum or Google
group or a subset of any other net-based front end trawler. If you
honestly think that I am being insensitive, then just carry on posting.
Sooner or later, for no apparent reason, you will set light to one of
the people on here that can be really offensive. Then you will
understand all about sensitivity ...

I say again, that what was intended was humour. Nothing against you, or
your watches, or the Bulova technology. Gareth has already apologised
for his remark, and I likewise apologise if you found my similar attempt
at humour, outside your understanding, and hence offensive. Now can we
please leave it at that ? And that especially includes you, William.

Arfa


Like I read all that. You really do have a lot of spare time, don't you?

I looks as if this Shotkey diode would have worked. 240 mV drop at 1
mA. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...=863-1126-1-ND
It was discontinued in June 2010.

You MIGHT be able to find something he
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors...=diode&FS=True
, but you'll need the current drawn by the watch using a feedback
ammeter.

You could build one simple enough.

"D" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 7/7/2011 6:42 PM, Arfa Daily wrote:


"D" wrote in message
b.com...
On 7/7/2011 2:13 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
Both myself and Gareth are from the right side, and it seems to me that
you might have fallen into the usenet 'language trap', and are taking
the word "crap" to have an entirely different level of meaning...
Stop being so sensitive, and accept the remark for what it was. A
simple
throw-away bit of leftpondian humour. Not a pop at you specifically, or
your hobby.

Arfa

More what I found troubling and what I was attempting to correct was
the ignorance regarding the significance of these timepieces, and the
very impressive technical achievement they represent, things which
users of a NG such as this one should find interesting. In terms of
the "crap" reference, you may be right about how the word is perceived
in different cultures, but if you and your friend made a bad choice of
words, why is it *ME* (and at least one other poster who also
commented on the word) who have "fallen into the usenet language
trap". Perhaps you should stop being so INsensitive.

Dan


Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
of the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept
that this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an
American, you don't understand. And I don't mean that to be taken as an
offensive comment to you in particular, or Americans in general. I watch
a lot of American TV, and visit America regularly, and have done for
many years, so understand at least a little about your variety of
humour. I'm sure that you would have to agree that it is predominantly
straightforward and obvious - sort of 'verbal slapstick' if you like.
Sometimes that works for British audiences, and sometimes it doesn't,
because we don't understand what the 'joke' is. By the same token,
British humour is often very subtle, and can hinge even on the way a
single word is pronounced, or contextually used. I'm sure that sometimes
this works for Americans, and sometimes it doesn't, exactly the same as
with us and your humour. In this particular exchange, Gareth's attempt
at humour hasn't worked for you, or William or Jeff, so as you are all
Americans, this has to tell us that it's a variety of humour that you
have difficulty with, which is fair enough, and why Gareth immediately
apologised. And there it should have lain, except that William won't let
it go.

You also misunderstand the use of my phrase "the usenet language trap".
We all fall into it from both sides of the pond. Occasionally, some
little incident like this one. 'takes off' in this way, but mostly,
regular posters on here know the problem well, and if anyone does bother
to make a comment, it usually dies out within a post or two. As I have
not seen you posting on here before - and I may be wrong on that, or you
might be a long-time lurker - I assumed that you were new to a group
that has many regulars on both sides of the pond, and had not come
across these linguistic nuances before, and that was the reason that you
had become so upset by what most would have seen as a throw-away comment.

Every now and then, William jumps on something like this, and worries it
like a dog with a bone, as he is doing right now.

As to asking me to stop being insensitive, I really think that you
should stop and consider that remark, and perhaps think how you might
feel about me telling you to stop being *so* sensitive. This is usenet.
We are all grownups, and sometimes, grownups have spats. It's life.
There is no moderation as such on here, and it is not a forum or Google
group or a subset of any other net-based front end trawler. If you
honestly think that I am being insensitive, then just carry on posting.
Sooner or later, for no apparent reason, you will set light to one of
the people on here that can be really offensive. Then you will
understand all about sensitivity ...

I say again, that what was intended was humour. Nothing against you, or
your watches, or the Bulova technology. Gareth has already apologised
for his remark, and I likewise apologise if you found my similar attempt
at humour, outside your understanding, and hence offensive. Now can we
please leave it at that ? And that especially includes you, William.

Arfa


Like I read all that. You really do have a lot of spare time, don't you?

OK. You want to do offensive ? You're a half baked **** who doesn't want to
understand. So I say to you, **** right off, and take your pony watches with
you. Ignorant arsehole.

Arfa

The issue is that you make a remark whose context to an American is
"serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
without feeling you have to take an responsibility for it. You just don't
get it, do you?

It is you who don't get it, you irritating little man. I apologised. Gareth
apologised. What more do you want me to do. I have accepted responsibility
for the remark, and the fact that you and your compadres couldn't see it as
humour. What more do you want me to do. Get on a ****ing plane and come and
beg for forgiveness at your door ? Now grow up for christ sake, and drop it.



You are seriously devoid of common sense and common courtesy, two things I
didn't used to think you were short of.



And for that comment, **** you, William, **** you : (

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
of
the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept that
this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an American,
you don't understand.

Stop patronizing us. (Or at least, me.) Despite being a stupid American (and
let's face it, Americans are stupid) I understand subtle and ironic humor.
THAT ISN'T THE ISSUE, though you insist on it.

Arfa, you seem to think that merely saying something -- especially in
print -- necessarily carries the context. IT DOESN'T.

Is it too much to ask that you say "Whoops! I didn't stop to think that
there was no way an American could have gotten the joke, and would have
misinterpreted it as a stupid and possibly offensive remark."?

Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

I say again, that what was intended was humour. Nothing against you, or
your watches, or the Bulova technology. Gareth has already apologised
for his remark, and I likewise apologise if you found my similar attempt
at humour, outside your understanding, and hence offensive. Now can we
please leave it at that ? And that especially includes you, William.

Gee, there's nothing like turning an "apology" into another offensive
remark.

Arfa, do you understand the difference beteween "knowledge" and
"understanding"?

The issue is that you make a remark whose context to an American is
"serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
without feeling you have to take any responsibility for it. You just
don't
get it, do you?

It is you who don't get it, you irritating little man. I apologised.
Gareth
apologised. What more do you want me to do. I have accepted responsibility
for the remark, and the fact that you and your compadres couldn't see it
as
humour. What more do you want me to do. Get on a ****ing plane and come
and beg for forgiveness at your door? Now grow up for christ sake, and
drop it.

I will leave this with a quote from the Bible: "Every man is justified in
his own sight."

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 04:46:06 -0700 "William Sommerwerck"
wrote in Message id:
:

The issue is that you make a remark whose context to an American is
"serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
without feeling you have to take any responsibility for it. You just
don't
get it, do you?

It is you who don't get it, you irritating little man. I apologised.
Gareth
apologised. What more do you want me to do. I have accepted responsibility
for the remark, and the fact that you and your compadres couldn't see it
as
humour. What more do you want me to do. Get on a ****ing plane and come
and beg for forgiveness at your door? Now grow up for christ sake, and
drop it.

I will leave this with a quote from the Bible: "Every man is justified in
his own sight."

In that case, why not drop this silly argument? Sheesh.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
of
the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept
that
this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an
American,
you don't understand.

Stop patronizing us. (Or at least, me.) Despite being a stupid American
(and
let's face it, Americans are stupid) I understand subtle and ironic humor.
THAT ISN'T THE ISSUE, though you insist on it.

Arfa, you seem to think that merely saying something -- especially in
print -- necessarily carries the context. IT DOESN'T.

Is it too much to ask that you say "Whoops! I didn't stop to think that
there was no way an American could have gotten the joke, and would have
misinterpreted it as a stupid and possibly offensive remark."?

How many ****ing times have I got to say it ? I already have apologised to
you and the other guy but you just can't let it go, can you ? Now **** off
and pedal your senseless drivel somewhere else. I've stopped listening to
you ...



Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.



No it isn't. Perhaps in London, when used with another word such as
"Diamond", it might occasionally been seen as such, but otherwise, it is a
fairly derogatory term. So don't try to patronise me either, by pretending
that you understand all about British English. Unless you have lived here
for at least 30 years, you don't.

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 04:36:41 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.

No listing for "crap" in the British to US dictionary:
http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/c
but there is one for "geezer":
http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/g
which means "dude".

For settling such differences in interpretation, Americans prefer
litigation, where the winner is whomever is left standing after
everyone else runs out of money. The British are move civilized,
preferring trial by combat.

Confession: I like watching the old Dr Who shows. (The new shows
suck). The only problem is that I fail to understand most of the
subtle jokes, puns, political parodies, and UK specific terms.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 01:50:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I don't know how many more ways that I can say it to you. It *was* humour -
allbeit a variety that you seem unable to pick the bones out of. The comment
was *not* intended to be offensive no matter what you think, and would not
have been considered so by any British person.

Welcome to one of the many joys of internationalization. Kinda like
the Chevy Nova automobile of the 1960's, which means "doesn't go" in
Spanish. More horror stories of misinterpretation:
http://www.learnenglish.de/mistakes/HorrorMistakes.htm
http://marketinghackz.com/10-product-and-campaign-blunders-to-learn-from/

There are also differences in methodology which will cause problems.
For example:
[Q] What's the difference between a bribe and a commission?
[A] When it's paid. A bribe in advance. A commission after.
Otherwise they're the same.
In many parts of the world, anyone taking a commission is considered a
fool and bribery is considered the norm. In other parts, bribery is a
crime, while taking a commission is considered acceptable.
Compromises, such as bank loan "points", where the bank takes its
profits in advance, marginally avoids the problem.

Wars have also been fought and nearly lost because of these
differences in terminology. During WWII, the allied general staff was
thoroughly confused when someone suggested "tabling" some action item.
In the US, that means delaying a decision. In England, it means
killing the idea.

It also extends to personal habits. My family is from Poland. Half
are from the German side, the other half from the Russian. This
became a problem during the annual Passover dinner, where the two
sides would line up on opposite sides of the long table, and glare at
each other in disgust. The Germans were very much into table manners,
never touching the food and using the forks and knives to surgically
dissect the food. The Russians were into reach and grab, stopping
short of throwing the food across the table. To the Germans, the
Russians ate like pigs. To the Russians, the Germans were pretentious
and pretending to act like the upper classes of old Russia. Many
family wars were fought over the proper operation of the knife and
fork. Us kids would mimick the mannerisms of whichever side we wanted
to impress at the time. This and other differences were not resolved
until most of both sides had died.

Treaties, legal contracts and laws were originally written in Latin,
because a dead language was not subject to dynamic changes in usage,
and therefore was far less subject to misinterpretation.

For those in this discussion that are less than tolerant about using
easily understandable terms, I recommend working with a virtual
company, where the various members are scattered all over the world.
Misunderstands are epidemic to the uninitiated and inexperienced. One
develops far more tolerance of alleged insults than has been
demonstrated in this discussion. In international discussions, I use
a totally different style of writing and speaking. Lots of rules and
hints, but one rule that is mandatory is "no slang".

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Jul 8, 4:36*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message

...



Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
of
the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept that
this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an American,
you don't understand.

Stop patronizing us. (Or at least, me.) Despite being a stupid American (and
let's face it, Americans are stupid) I understand subtle and ironic humor..
THAT ISN'T THE ISSUE, though you insist on it.

Arfa, you seem to think that merely saying something -- especially in
print -- necessarily carries the context. IT DOESN'T.

Is it too much to ask that you say "Whoops! I didn't stop to think that
there was no way an American could have gotten the joke, and would have
misinterpreted it as a stupid and possibly offensive remark."?

Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.

In the US, a "geezer" is an injection drug user, typically a heroin
addict. See, for example, _The concise new Partridge dictionary of
slang and unconventional English_ byEric Partridge, Tom Dalzell, Terry

On Jul 8, 7:31*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 04:36:41 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"

wrote:
Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.

No listing for "crap" in the British to US dictionary:
http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/c
but there is one for "geezer":
http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/g
which means "dude".

For settling such differences in interpretation, Americans prefer
litigation, where the winner is whomever is left standing after
everyone else runs out of money. *The British are move civilized,
preferring trial by combat.

Confession: *I like watching the old Dr Who shows. *(The new shows
suck). *The only problem is that I fail to understand most of the
subtle jokes, puns, political parodies, and UK specific terms.


It took me years to understand the difference between a quango and a
boffin.

On Jul 8, 8:13*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It also extends to personal habits. *My family is from Poland. *Half
are from the German side, the other half from the Russian. *This
became a problem during the annual Passover dinner, where the two
sides would line up on opposite sides of the long table, and glare at
each other in disgust. *The Germans were very much into table manners,
never touching the food and using the forks and knives to surgically
dissect the food. *The Russians were into reach and grab, stopping
short of throwing the food across the table. *To the Germans, the
Russians ate like pigs. *To the Russians, the Germans were pretentious
and pretending to act like the upper classes of old Russia. *Many
family wars were fought over the proper operation of the knife and
fork. *Us kids would mimick the mannerisms of whichever side we wanted
to impress at the time. *This and other differences were not resolved
until most of both sides had died.

I thought the Litvaks were regarded as the more hoity-toity ones, the
snobby intellectuals. Or am I misreading this?

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:15:32 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.

In the US, a "geezer" is an injection drug user, typically a heroin
addict. See, for example, _The concise new Partridge dictionary of
slang and unconventional English_ byEric Partridge, Tom Dalzell, Terry

There's also a difference in pronunciation. See:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/geezer
and click the two flag icons in the top left of the page.

(Now you know why I call it a "computah").

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 7 Jul 2011 04:38:05 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"D" wrote in message
web.com...

I have a "disposable" plastic POS I wear while biking, etc. It has its
place, and I'm glad to have it. But judging a 50 year old wris****ch
which was at the cutting edge of its discipline when it was made by the
TECHNICAL standards of today is pretty myopic, and misses the point
entirely.

The Accutron site referenced states that the stepper wheel was made using a
proprietary process that other companies were unable to duplicate. In fact,
the machine used to make it was deliberately destroyed by the company that
bought out Bulova.

That's because the index wheel was made from beryllium copper. It
could be duplicated, but my guess(tm) is that none of the workers
wanted to be near it. Beryllium dust is extrememly toxic and
hazardous. Beryllium copper is only about 2% beryllium, but still
required exotic dust control in the machining process. Bulova went
through several hands before Citizen bought what was left. The
machine was possibly destroyed because of the hazardous material
problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_poisoning

I'm surprised no one has revived the Accutron. I have my father's, and when
my budget allows, I'll have a CLA performed.

They've been cloned. I have two that I bought for peanuts. No
batteries, so I don't know if they work. One is an Elton clone:
http://accutron.org/214/clones.htm
The other is an unknown.

Fun exercise: Guess how much a current reproduction of the Accutron
would sell for today? My offhand guess is about $3,000. That might
explain why they're not being reproduced.

Finding usable batteries is a problem. Mercury batteries are no
longer made, and the higher voltage silver-oxide substitutes work
arounds are somewhat of a challenge:
http://www.accutron214.com/AccutronBattery.htm
http://www.boomertime.com/3%20Accutron/A1688/A1688.htm



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:22:05 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

I thought the Litvaks were regarded as the more hoity-toity ones, the
snobby intellectuals. Or am I misreading this?

Litvaks are Jews from Lithuania, not Poland. The dinner table holiday
politics had nothing to do with intellectuals.

If it hadn't been for WWII, the Polish cavalry would have conquered
Europe, and we might all be speaking Polish today.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Fun exercise: Guess how much a current reproduction of the
Accutron would sell for today? My offhand guess is about $3,000.
That might explain why they're not being reproduced.

I could see $300, from an Asian plant. Watches tend to be overpriced anyway
(they always have been), so anyone making an Accutron would have to decide
where the price/volume line would be drawn.

On 7/8/2011 4:11 AM, Ron D. wrote:
You MIGHT be able to find something he
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors...=diode&FS=True
, but you'll need the current drawn by the watch using a feedback
ammeter.

You could build one simple enough.

Ron - Thanks for the helpful replies. The Mouser chart is especially
interesting. I've used both Digikey & Mouser in the past used to build
a lot of audio equipment, good sources.

Dan

On 7/8/2011 11:21 AM, D wrote:
On 7/8/2011 4:11 AM, Ron D. wrote:
You MIGHT be able to find something he
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors...=diode&FS=True

, but you'll need the current drawn by the watch using a feedback
ammeter.

You could build one simple enough.

Ron - Thanks for the helpful replies. The Mouser chart is especially
interesting. I've used both Digikey & Mouser in the past used to build a
lot of audio equipment, good sources.

Dan

Oh and I do have a fair amount of test gear (several digital meters, an
oscilloscope, etc. so that's no problem ;-)

Dan

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:32:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:05:08 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Frankly, I'm surprised that the humour of Gareth's remark passed so
completely over your head, Jeff ... :-\ Arfa

What humor? Besides, I only write humor, I never read it.

LOL!



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

"Jeff Liebermann"

There are also differences in methodology which will cause problems.
For example:
[Q] What's the difference between a bribe and a commission?
[A] When it's paid. A bribe in advance. A commission after.
Otherwise they're the same.

** Hardly the case at all.

In many parts of the world, anyone taking a commission is considered a
fool and bribery is considered the norm. In other parts, bribery is a
crime, while taking a commission is considered acceptable.

** A " bribe " is a payment or a gift intended to influence a person (
usually in some position of authority) to act in a way favourable to the
bribe giver and this action is not legal. For example, bribing a police
officer to turn a blind eye to one's transgression of the law.

In places where offering " bribes " is standard practice, it is often to
have an official do their regular job in relation to the bribe giver - so
it not seen as corrupt.

However a "commission" is an previously agreed payment of part of a price or
service fee made to a person responsible for causing the original payment to
occur. The typical example is a commission paid for making sales.

The law in most places prescribes " secret commissions " as being corrupt
payments offered in order to influence decision makers and advice givers in
relation to contracts and purchases. These are also know as " kick backs ".



..... Phil

"Phil Allison"

**Should be:

The law in most places proscribes " secret commissions " ....



.... Phil

Take a look he http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5448 for
the difference between a FB and shunt ammeter. The output of the op
amp is -I*Rf . In practical designs there is a capacitor across the
feedback resistor. The OP amps needs a low Vos and needs to be unity
gain stable. You can use two 9V batteries which I have done or use a
rail splitter. I've built plenty of them.

It is important to get a handle on the operating current.

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 04:36:41 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.

No listing for "crap" in the British to US dictionary:
http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/c
but there is one for "geezer":
http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/g
which means "dude".

For settling such differences in interpretation, Americans prefer
litigation, where the winner is whomever is left standing after
everyone else runs out of money. The British are move civilized,
preferring trial by combat.

Confession: I like watching the old Dr Who shows. (The new shows
suck). The only problem is that I fail to understand most of the
subtle jokes, puns, political parodies, and UK specific terms.



--
Jeff Liebermann

Jeff. The site that you refer to is American owned by someone in MI. For the
most part, the word "geezer" in the UK, does not mean what UK people would
generally associate with the useage of the word "dude", which we see as
meaning 'cool' or a sort of American version of 'mate'. A friend of my
son's, who is almost 30 years old, calls everyone dude, in exactly the same
context as I would use 'mate', being somewhat older than he. Geezer is
somewhat archaic now anyway. It was a word originally coined a very long
time ago, and predominantly used by 'kids' to describe anyone over the age
of about 40 in a slightly derogatory way. Such as "That ol' geezer down the
road never does anything but moan about us playing football outside his
house ". In the east end of London, it can be used a bit differently. It
might have the word "diamond" added to it to say something like "Fred down
the bookie's is a right diamond geezer" meaning a good all round bloke.

see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/geezer and
http://www.londonslang.com/db/d/

Arfa

snip


Wars have also been fought and nearly lost because of these
differences in terminology. During WWII, the allied general staff was
thoroughly confused when someone suggested "tabling" some action item.
In the US, that means delaying a decision. In England, it means
killing the idea.


That's not actually quite right Jeff. The word "Tabling" and phrase "tabling
a motion" is used all the time in British governmental procedure and
negotiations between parties, and means to put up an idea for consideration
(now, not some time in the future).



It also extends to personal habits. My family is from Poland. Half
are from the German side, the other half from the Russian. This
became a problem during the annual Passover dinner, where the two
sides would line up on opposite sides of the long table, and glare at
each other in disgust. The Germans were very much into table manners,
never touching the food and using the forks and knives to surgically
dissect the food. The Russians were into reach and grab, stopping
short of throwing the food across the table. To the Germans, the
Russians ate like pigs. To the Russians, the Germans were pretentious
and pretending to act like the upper classes of old Russia. Many
family wars were fought over the proper operation of the knife and
fork. Us kids would mimick the mannerisms of whichever side we wanted
to impress at the time. This and other differences were not resolved
until most of both sides had died.

Treaties, legal contracts and laws were originally written in Latin,
because a dead language was not subject to dynamic changes in usage,
and therefore was far less subject to misinterpretation.

For those in this discussion that are less than tolerant about using
easily understandable terms, I recommend working with a virtual
company, where the various members are scattered all over the world.
Misunderstands are epidemic to the uninitiated and inexperienced. One
develops far more tolerance of alleged insults than has been
demonstrated in this discussion. In international discussions, I use
a totally different style of writing and speaking. Lots of rules and
hints, but one rule that is mandatory is "no slang".

--
Jeff Liebermann

Yes, and therein lies the problem with this discussion. It has all hinged on
use of a slang word, and its misinterpretation - especially by some on here
that are well aware of this problem, and should know better. With hindsight,
I include myself in that. Some 'definitions' that have been put forward
here - including your one above - clearly demonstrate that what people
understand to be the meaning of a word in a country other than their own, is
often misguided, and sometimes misled by the wonders of the www ...

Arfa