I've got a Micronta that's getting weird on me. Thing must be
30 years old, but it always did what little I needed of it:

- Checking automobile battery voltages

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

- Looking for shorts


Can anybody recommend a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and
a leg?

I'm thinking hardware-store quality is going tb adequate, but
don't know the ins and outs.
--
PeteCresswell

Harbor Freight has a digital meter for $3 -- but I don't know how sturdy it
is.

On Feb 21, 2:16*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
I've got a Micronta that's getting weird on me. * Thing must be
30 years old, but it always did what little I needed of it:

- Checking automobile battery voltages

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

- Looking for shorts

Can anybody recommend a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and
a leg?

I'm thinking hardware-store quality is going tb adequate, but
don't know the ins and outs.
--
PeteCresswell

Try Harbor Freight.

greg

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 14:16:53 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I've got a Micronta that's getting weird on me. Thing must be
30 years old, but it always did what little I needed of it:

- Checking automobile battery voltages

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

- Looking for shorts


Can anybody recommend a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and
a leg?

I'm thinking hardware-store quality is going tb adequate, but
don't know the ins and outs.

The little US$27 (at Lowes) Extech model DM110 is a nice "tool bag"
meter. Small, handles the basic functions, includes a case. Downside is
no backlight and the leads are permanently attached.

In general: Autoranging is nice but increases the time between probing
something and getting a stable reading. Autoranging plus a "range hold"
function is a nice compromise. Having a continuity beeper is handy for
checking for shorts/opens without having to keep looking back at the
meter. Backlighted displays are nice. Don't get too wrapped up in
"counts"; the world is mostly three significant figures, so 0-1999 is
okay for the vast majority of situations for a general-purpose meter.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

On Feb 21, 1:27*pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
Harbor Freight has a digital meter for $3 -- but I don't know how sturdy it
is.

I have it (among others)...it'll get you by.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a Micronta that's getting weird on me. Thing must be
30 years old, but it always did what little I needed of it:

- Checking automobile battery voltages

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

- Looking for shorts


Can anybody recommend a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and
a leg?

I'm thinking hardware-store quality is going tb adequate, but
don't know the ins and outs

(picture mode)google accu tester

300000 hits.

http://www.winparts.nl/534/werkplaat...ulader/0106747

The above link shows the one our local gasstation uses.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
- Checking automobile battery voltages

Make sure you turn on the headlights first.

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

Again, no-load voltages are mostly meaningless;
make yourself a test load to get any useful readings.
That the device that uses the batteries is still working properly
is the best indicator of their suitability.

There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer stuff, etc.
that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They are mostly returns
that somebody blew the fuse in and returned.
Watching a needle move *can* give useful information
that a digital readout doesn't easily communicate.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
Harbor Freight has a digital meter for $3 -- but I don't know how
sturdy it is.

The unit itself is sturdy enough for occasional use (I keep one in the car
and a couple near the workbench), but the leads are about the cheapest I
have seen, especially the banana plugs.

Still, for a couple of bucks they are good enough to have a few laying about
for when you need an extra meter.

Jon

On 2/21/2011 11:27 AM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

Harbor Freight has a digital meter for $3 -- but I don't know how sturdy it
is.

Plenty sturdy. The weak point of these meters (I've bought several of
them) seems to be the leads, the wires of which pull out pretty easily.
Other than that, they seem as good as any other hardware-store DMM.


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

In article ,
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a Micronta that's getting weird on me. Thing must be
30 years old, but it always did what little I needed of it:

- Checking automobile battery voltages

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

- Looking for shorts


Can anybody recommend a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and
a leg?

I'm thinking hardware-store quality is going tb adequate, but
don't know the ins and outs.

The very cheap ones sort of work ok. But pay a bit more - perhaps around
$25 dollars from Ebay - and you can get quite a decent one.

--
*Wedding dress for sale. Worn once by mistake.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Peabody wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Where would you find an inexpensive new analog
meter? Do they even make them anymore?

Yes. Try MCM or any other large parts distributor.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Peabody wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

That must make my Fluke 87 indecent.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

That must make my Fluke 87 indecent.


I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On 2/25/2011 4:10 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

For a simple "Is it more or less?" Nothing beats a DC
coupled scope. If you're tuning for a maximum (or
minimum) you can easily see that out of the corner of
your eye with out having to take your eyes off your
fingers or the end of the tool you're adjusting things
with.

Jeff

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

That must make my Fluke 87 indecent.

I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with
bargraphs to be very annoying. They don't have enough
resolution for the work I need a DVM for. For some jobs I've
had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

If you're working at a bench, it makes sense to use a meter that sits at eye
level, rather than having to fiddle with what is basically a hand-held meter
(such as my 87).

Ad for the bar graph... I don't notice it unless I have a need for it.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.

--
*I want it all and I want it delivered

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 2/25/2011 4:10 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

For a simple "Is it more or less?" Nothing beats a DC
coupled scope. If you're tuning for a maximum (or
minimum) you can easily see that out of the corner of
your eye with out having to take your eyes off your
fingers or the end of the tool you're adjusting things
with.


As long as you don't have to set something to an exact value. Too
many years in TV Broadcast & Aerospace where you had to be able to set
something to less than a 1 mV error at 15 V.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.


When you're at a bench with over 30 pieces of test equipment,
including four or more identical DVMs the bargraph is just more visual
noise.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On 2/25/2011 9:19 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 2/25/2011 4:10 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

For a simple "Is it more or less?" Nothing beats a DC
coupled scope. If you're tuning for a maximum (or
minimum) you can easily see that out of the corner of
your eye with out having to take your eyes off your
fingers or the end of the tool you're adjusting things
with.


As long as you don't have to set something to an exact value. Too
many years in TV Broadcast& Aerospace where you had to be able to set
something to less than a 1 mV error at 15 V.



Well, that's what the FLuke bench DMMs are for. ;-)

Jeff

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 2/25/2011 9:19 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 2/25/2011 4:10 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

For a simple "Is it more or less?" Nothing beats a DC
coupled scope. If you're tuning for a maximum (or
minimum) you can easily see that out of the corner of
your eye with out having to take your eyes off your
fingers or the end of the tool you're adjusting things
with.


As long as you don't have to set something to an exact value. Too
many years in TV Broadcast& Aerospace where you had to be able to set
something to less than a 1 mV error at 15 V.



Well, that's what the Fluke bench DMMs are for. ;-)


Actually some were HP 5+3/4 digit with IEEE-488 interface to verify
calibration.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside are
wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new analog
meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle
movement.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.


When you're at a bench with over 30 pieces of test equipment,
including four or more identical DVMs the bargraph is just more visual
noise.

Thought the question was about the spec for a basic DVM?

As regards a bargraph being 'visual noise' that's the whole point. It
draws your attention to the direction and rate of change. If you're using
'30 pieces of test equipment' at once, you can't possibly read them all
accurately at any one point in time - so a bargraph sounds to me even more
useful here.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

This discussion reminds me of the article on digital voltmeters in
"Electronics World" about 50 years ago.

Back then, they were huge, taking up (if I recall correctly) a 3U or 4U
space. The meter they described was a Non-Linear Systems model. Its ADC was
electromechanical, (!) using a relay-controlled voltage divider on a
highly-accurate voltage source to create successively closer approximations
to the input voltage.

There were no commercial LED displays, of course, so the results were
displayed using incandescent lamps to side-illuminate numbers cut into
polycarbonate blocks! (I don't know why NLS didn't use Nixie tubes.)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside are
wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new analog
meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle
movement.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.

When you're at a bench with over 30 pieces of test equipment,
including four or more identical DVMs the bargraph is just more visual
noise.

Thought the question was about the spec for a basic DVM?

As regards a bargraph being 'visual noise' that's the whole point. It
draws your attention to the direction and rate of change. If you're using
'30 pieces of test equipment' at once, you can't possibly read them all
accurately at any one point in time - so a bargraph sounds to me even more
useful here.


Maybe, if you want to be distracted. I was testing modules in
$20,000 to $80,000 (US) telemetry receiving systems. The 'Video
Combiner' module compared the linear 0-5V AGC buss in two receivers, and
was allowed an error of under 1.5 mV.

I wouldn't use any meter with one on my bench, but some techs wanted
them even though they were useless. They also clutter their benches with
piles of other useless crap. Tell me of ANY bargraph that will give
useful indication when the change is in millivolts, where the voltage
being measured is 5 to 15 volts. The bargraph would be 2 volts per
division. The bargraph driver is noisy enough that the display is
unstable at the boundaries, and some are used with an overlap to reduce
flicker. it does this by dithering the reference voltage.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

This discussion reminds me of the article on digital voltmeters in
"Electronics World" about 50 years ago.

Back then, they were huge, taking up (if I recall correctly) a 3U or 4U
space. The meter they described was a Non-Linear Systems model. Its ADC was
electromechanical, (!) using a relay-controlled voltage divider on a
highly-accurate voltage source to create successively closer approximations
to the input voltage.

There were no commercial LED displays, of course, so the results were
displayed using incandescent lamps to side-illuminate numbers cut into
polycarbonate blocks! (I don't know why NLS didn't use Nixie tubes.)


HP made a voltmeter plugin for their 5245L frequency counter. That
was mid '60s vintage.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Tell me of ANY bargraph that will give useful indication
when the change is in millivolts, where the voltage being
measured is 5 to 15 volts. The bargraph would be 2 volts
per division.

I think it's rather finer than that. (My Fluke 87 has 51 points.) But no one
(that I know of) makes a DVM with that can display millivolt changes when
the input is hundreds of millivolts.

The purpose of the bargraph is to give the tech an easily interpreted
indication of which way the measurement is tending, without having to
"interpret" the numbers. And it responds much more quickly than the display
can settle.

I have little need for the bargraph display. But it adds little to the cost
of the meter, and it's there when I do.

There were no commercial LED displays, of course, so the
results were displayed using incandescent lamps to side-
illuminate numbers cut into polycarbonate blocks! (I don't
know why NLS didn't use Nixie tubes.)

HP made a voltmeter plugin for their 5245L frequency counter.
That was mid '60s vintage.

Interesting. I had an SWTP modular unit, though that was a lot later.

The NLS appeared earlier, I believe. George Kay (as in Kaypro) is given
credit for the first digital voltmeter.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Peabody wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.



Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.

Shaun wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Peabody wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.


Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.


God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Tell me of ANY bargraph that will give useful indication
when the change is in millivolts, where the voltage being
measured is 5 to 15 volts. The bargraph would be 2 volts
per division.

I think it's rather finer than that. (My Fluke 87 has 51 points.) But no one
(that I know of) makes a DVM with that can display millivolt changes when
the input is hundreds of millivolts.

The purpose of the bargraph is to give the tech an easily interpreted
indication of which way the measurement is tending, without having to
"interpret" the numbers. And it responds much more quickly than the display
can settle.

I have little need for the bargraph display. But it adds little to the cost
of the meter, and it's there when I do.


I used meters like a Boonton 9200, a Fluke 8920A and several 4.5
digit or better general purpose DVMs. The signal generators and
frequency counters were all connected to the in house 10 MHz frequency
standard and we had an in house metrology lab.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Shaun wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Peabody wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.


Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.


God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.


And Good is spelled with two "O"s

Shaun wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
m...
?
? Shaun wrote:
??
?? "Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
?? m...
?? ?
?? ? "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? In article ?,
?? ?? Peabody ? wrote:
?? ?? ? ? There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
?? ?? ? ? stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
?? ?? ? ? are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
?? ?? ? ? returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
?? ?? ? ? information that a digital readout doesn't easily
?? ?? ? ? communicate.
?? ??
?? ?? ? I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
?? ?? ? are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
?? ?? ? analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?
?? ??
?? ?? A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? --
?? ? You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
?? ? Teflon coated.
?? ?
??
?? Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.
?
?
? God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.

And Good is spelled with two "O"s


I never claim to be perfect.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I never claim to be perfect.

Just as well. ;-)

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ?,
Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
? I never claim to be perfect.

Just as well. ;-)


When someone claims to be perfect, I ask to see the nail holes.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On 2/28/2011 11:51 AM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ?,
Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:

? I never claim to be perfect.

Just as well. ;-)

When someone claims to be perfect, I ask to see the nail holes.

Ha!

Your one-line responses are generally annoying, but this one's a zinger!


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet