What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...

Thanks.

notme wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...


Modified sine is often just full peak on, pause, full negative peak,
pause, and so on. That can mess with PFC circuitry and also stresses
rectifiers at the line input more than a sine. However, RVers and
traveling sales folks do sometimes use modified sine inverters.

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:21:20 -0700, notme wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...

Thanks.

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

John

wrote:

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

My current small Samsung printer never actually says what it draws, but the
web page and manual made a big point about it drawing 6 watts in standby. Since
we print around 5 times a week, the standby current matters more than the
max draw, but I would not want to plug it into a UPS.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

On Jul 19, 11:21*am, notme wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only

The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

Items like a computer PS, which converts AC to DC before
using the power, aren't picky.

"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
On Jul 19, 11:21 am, notme wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only

The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:19:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

wrote:

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

Nothing much hidden the 8 Amps, 120 volts, 960 watts. That's damned
close to a thousand watts, IMHO.


My current small Samsung printer never actually says what it draws, but the
web page and manual made a big point about it drawing 6 watts in standby. Since
we print around 5 times a week, the standby current matters more than the
max draw, but I would not want to plug it into a UPS.

Geoff.

I wrote:

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

PeterD wrote:

Nothing much hidden the 8 Amps, 120 volts, 960 watts. That's damned
close to a thousand watts, IMHO.

My point was that the 8 amps was only on the last page of the manual, not
anywhere else, including the web page, sticker on the printer, specs page
at the begining of the manual and so on.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

On Jul 19, 1:19*pm, "Michael Robinson" wrote:
"whit3rd" wrote in message

...
On Jul 19, 11:21 am, notme wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only

The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). *Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?

Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:19:10 -0400, Michael Robinson wrote:

The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?

There's no reason to use DC, particularly if it means that you need a
1kW PSU instead of 200W.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:19:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

wrote:

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

Only 8 amps? HP is usually fairly good about supplying power
consumption specs. For example, for the HP LJ 3200 all in one, see:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpl08239&locale=en_US&taskId =101&prodSeriesId=24354&prodTypeId=18972#A8
Inrush Current: (Duration: significantly 1 second)
Model A (120V): 23 A peak (20 deg C, from cold start)
Model AB (240V): 40 A peak (20 deg C, from cold start)

With a 23A inrush current, the UPS is gonna go into shutdown, blow a
fuse, or somehow complain. (I haven't tried it).

What I find amusing is that in order to get an Energy Start rating,
the printer must reduce average consumption to below 50% of normal
power consumption. This is usually done with a power save shut down
and an "instant on" feature. However, to get reasonable startup time,
the initial inrush current is really high.

My current small Samsung printer never actually says what it draws, but the
web page and manual made a big point about it drawing 6 watts in standby. Since
we print around 5 times a week, the standby current matters more than the
max draw, but I would not want to plug it into a UPS.

My clamp-on amps guesser has a peak hold function. I'll try it out on
some of my LaserJet printers in the office and see what it shows.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?

Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up. They run off of low power DC.
The power supply in the printer (or external on most of my inkjets) very happily
converts the output of a UPS to the DC that it needs.

The difference with laser printers is that the toner only sticks to the paper
as long as there is an electrical charge. To keep it falling off of the paper
after a few minutes, it has to be melted onto the paper.

The technical term used is "fused" and the part of the printer is called
a "fuser". They could of as easily called it "ironing" and an "iron", (as in
an iron-on T shirt pattern) but that would have been too simple and
not sound important enough. :-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?

Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:39:05 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:


I wrote:

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

PeterD wrote:

Nothing much hidden the 8 Amps, 120 volts, 960 watts. That's damned
close to a thousand watts, IMHO.

My point was that the 8 amps was only on the last page of the manual, not
anywhere else, including the web page, sticker on the printer, specs page
at the begining of the manual and so on.

Geoff.

Ah, I see your point.

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.

chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.


What did I win? Can one drink it?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Meat Plow wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.

What did I win? Can one drink it?

How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?


Nice! But a 1978 Montrachet or a nice bottle of Chateau d'Yquem would
also do :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.

Torn Lawence wrote:
I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.

You can clean them with a dilute solution of ammonia in water, but that's no
longer legal here. :-(

There are actually print head cleaning solutions, but I have not bought any
in a long time.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:03:18 -0700) it happened Torn Lawence
wrote in
:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.

Yes, those cartridges are expensive, but I have been using this system for some years:
https://www.continuousink.com/home.html
mainly to print to DVDs.
Now printing costs very little, and the printheads are still the original ones.
The way that system works is by using special cartridges that suck ink via silicone
tubes from big external ink tanks.
About 20x cheaper then the normal Epson ink.
It takes care of the counter chips too.
If the heads are clogged it is now less costly to run the cleaning program a few times too.

Torn Lawence wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
"Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head
and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the
ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for
better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.

I have an Epson all-in-one, which works great except that if even one
ink colour is low, it won't let you do _anything_. On Saturday it
wouldn't even let me _scan_ until I replaced the yellow ink.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:
I have an Epson all-in-one, which works great except that if even one
ink colour is low, it won't let you do _anything_. On Saturday it
wouldn't even let me _scan_ until I replaced the yellow ink.

I had that same problem with an HP6100. It told me it was out of black ink
and when I put a new cartridge in, it did an alignment page. It printed out
some black lines and then failed.

It never told me that it was out of color ink too. I was about to throw it
away when I found an unopened set of catridges and replaced the color one
just because I had it. It did the alignment and now it is working.

I really did not care very much about the printing, I wanted to use it
as a black and white fax machine. Without two working cartridges (black
and color), it won't funtion at all. :-(

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

notme wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...

The big difference is that lasers usually have a mains powered quartz
lamp inside the fuser assembly to cook the toner onto the paper. My
guess would be that the lamp puts a huge current spike on the mains each
time it powers up, which is every minute or so. If so, that spike might
overload the UPS.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Meat Plow wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.

What did I win? Can one drink it?

How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?

Sounds good to me!

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Joerg wrote:
Meat Plow wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser
which draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the
inverter inside the UPS to choke.
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.

What did I win? Can one drink it?

How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?


Nice! But a 1978 Montrachet or a nice bottle of Chateau d'Yquem would
also do :-)

I'd prefer the Scotch, myself.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:21:20 -0700, notme wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...

Thanks.

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

IIRC, the fusing lamps are closer to 250W, but the element will draw a
lot more than that when it's cold.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Greegor wrote:
On Jul 19, 1:19 pm, "Michael Robinson" wrote:
"whit3rd" wrote in message

...
On Jul 19, 11:21 am, notme wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only
The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?

Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?

It shouldn't be an issue at all for inkjets, only lasers.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Torn Lawence wrote:
I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.

You can clean them with a dilute solution of ammonia in water, but that's no
longer legal here. :-(

You're kidding! Why not?

There are actually print head cleaning solutions, but I have not bought any
in a long time.

Betcha they're just water & ammonia.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:

You're kidding! Why not?

My guess is that someone thinks you can mix ammonia and various household
items to make a bomb, but what I think happened is that someone who
can't read the Hebrew warnings on the bottle cleaned their toilet with
ammonia and clorox and they had to evacuate the whole neighborhood.

Now the most exotic toilet cleaner you can buy is something called
"hot water" (may cham) which is a mild dilution of hydrochloric acid. So mild,
I don't think it will cause skin burns.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?

Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and
paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up. They run off of low power
DC.
The power supply in the printer (or external on most of my inkjets) very
happily
converts the output of a UPS to the DC that it needs.

The difference with laser printers is that the toner only sticks to the
paper
as long as there is an electrical charge. To keep it falling off of the
paper
after a few minutes, it has to be melted onto the paper.

The technical term used is "fused" and the part of the printer is called
a "fuser". They could of as easily called it "ironing" and an "iron", (as
in
an iron-on T shirt pattern) but that would have been too simple and
not sound important enough. :-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

Not quite their fault for using that terminology, though. It's borrowed from
the photocopier industry, where the same principle is used in exactly the
same way. I doubt that iron-on T-shirt patterns were around - certainly not
to the general public - when the toner / fuser technique was first
established by Xerox or whoever it was ... :-)
Arfa

"Torn Lawence" wrote in message
net...
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
"Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and
paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink
out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for
better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other brands
too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and not built
into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when the nozzles
clogged up, the printer's life was over.


An Epson printer's life is over the moment you make your first print ... I
have lost count of the number of them that I have drop-kicked down the
garden. The trouble with them is, they are full of features, and cheap, so
every time I wear out an HP after 6 or 7 years, I get enticed into buying
another Epson, thinking that they can't still be in business by being stupid
enough not to have finally sorted out the irretrievably clogged head
syndrome ... How wrong and stupid *I* continue to be :-\

Arfa

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Phil Hobbs wrote:
I have an Epson all-in-one, which works great except that if even one
ink colour is low, it won't let you do _anything_. On Saturday it
wouldn't even let me _scan_ until I replaced the yellow ink.

I had that same problem with an HP6100. It told me it was out of black ink
and when I put a new cartridge in, it did an alignment page. It printed
out
some black lines and then failed.

It never told me that it was out of color ink too. I was about to throw it
away when I found an unopened set of catridges and replaced the color one
just because I had it. It did the alignment and now it is working.

I really did not care very much about the printing, I wanted to use it
as a black and white fax machine. Without two working cartridges (black
and color), it won't funtion at all. :-(

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

I have always found the management software on my HPs to be very good. The
5180 all-in-one that I'm currently using, informs you as soon as the ink in
any cartridge drops below about 85% at a guess, and continues to do so until
that cartrige is empty. It does this via both a screen pop-up on the
computer that's requesting service from it (it's a network device), and a
message on its own little LCD screen. It will then continue to give you the
option to print in black only - assuming it's not the black that's run out
of course - before finally shutting down completely, presumably to keep
enough ink in the pipes etc to prevent drying out. If I've ever hit this
condition, and not had a replacement cartridge in the drawer, I've always
just gone to the store and bought one, so I don't know if scanning stops as
well.

Arfa

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:35:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:


I have an Epson all-in-one, which works great except that if even one
ink colour is low, it won't let you do _anything_. On Saturday it
wouldn't even let me _scan_ until I replaced the yellow ink.

A friend gave me an Epson RX-580 with some clogging, and most carts were
nearly empty. Same story. Nasty of them! Doesn't generate good will.

Btw, figuring that it was worth it, I dismantled the RX-580 just to see
and learn as much as I could. If you have any problems with the printer's
feed, etc. mechanism, may the Creator's grace be with you! They are
awesomely inaccessible.

The excess-ink absorbing block is simply huge, btw.



--
Nicabod =+= Waltham, Mass.

On a sunny day (Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:31:08 +0100) it happened "Arfa Daily"
wrote in :


"Torn Lawence" wrote in message
tnet...
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
"Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and
paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink
out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for
better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other brands
too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and not built
into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when the nozzles
clogged up, the printer's life was over.


An Epson printer's life is over the moment you make your first print ...

Bull**** :-)


I
have lost count of the number of them that I have drop-kicked down the
garden.

Well, do they grow there????

The trouble with them is, they are full of features, and cheap, so
every time I wear out an HP after 6 or 7 years, I get enticed into buying
another Epson, thinking that they can't still be in business by being stupid
enough not to have finally sorted out the irretrievably clogged head
syndrome ... How wrong and stupid *I* continue to be :-\

Na, my oldest Epson is a Stylus Color 460, is older then your HPs,
works OK, apart from a bad contact in the chip socket that requires
re-inserting the big DIL chip every now and then, should
really fix this some time.
But it is noisy.
My Epson R200 is also many years old, end very very quiet.


Arfa

"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message
...
On a sunny day (Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:31:08 +0100) it happened "Arfa Daily"
wrote in :


"Torn Lawence" wrote in message
stnet...
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
"Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and
paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the
ink
out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for
better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:-)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands
too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and not
built
into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when the nozzles
clogged up, the printer's life was over.


An Epson printer's life is over the moment you make your first print ...

Bull**** :-)

Your opinion my friend, but there are many many other dissatisfied owners
who would not agree with you ...



I
have lost count of the number of them that I have drop-kicked down the
garden.

Well, do they grow there????

Indeed they do not. They rot gently away, which is the best thing that they
can possibly do ...



The trouble with them is, they are full of features, and cheap, so
every time I wear out an HP after 6 or 7 years, I get enticed into buying
another Epson, thinking that they can't still be in business by being
stupid
enough not to have finally sorted out the irretrievably clogged head
syndrome ... How wrong and stupid *I* continue to be :-\

Na, my oldest Epson is a Stylus Color 460, is older then your HPs,
works OK, apart from a bad contact in the chip socket that requires
re-inserting the big DIL chip every now and then, should
really fix this some time.
But it is noisy.
My Epson R200 is also many years old, end very very quiet.



I think then, that you have been very very lucky. Perhaps the ones you have
are so old that they come from a time when Epson could still build printers
that were not worthless junk, designed to gobble as much ink as they
possibly can, from every cartridge fitted, when the jets on the end of just
one of them, have clogged. In fact, I think you are the first person I have
ever come across, who has not had a bad experience with one (cue hundreds of
lurkers to now come out of the woodwork, protesting what marvellous machines
they are ...)

Arfa

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:56:18 -0700, Joerg wrote:
Meat Plow wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.

What did I win? Can one drink it?

How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?

Nice! But a 1978 Montrachet or a nice bottle of Chateau d'Yquem would
also do :-)

I can get an "almost half-gallon" (1.75L) of Prestige Vodka for $8.99 plus
tax. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:21:20 -0700, notme wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...


"Do not look into laser beam with remaining eye." ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:35:16 GMT, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:56:18 -0700, Joerg wrote:
Meat Plow wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.

What did I win? Can one drink it?

How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?

Nice! But a 1978 Montrachet or a nice bottle of Chateau d'Yquem would
also do :-)

I can get an "almost half-gallon" (1.75L) of Prestige Vodka for $8.99 plus
tax. ;-)

Listerine is $5 at WallyWorld.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:59:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Bob Larter wrote:

You're kidding! Why not?

My guess is that someone thinks you can mix ammonia and various household
items to make a bomb,

Ah, but you can! I did it all the time when I was in high school.
Nitrogen triiodide is fun stuff. ;-)

but what I think happened is that someone who
can't read the Hebrew warnings on the bottle cleaned their toilet with
ammonia and clorox and they had to evacuate the whole neighborhood.

They don't believe in Darwin there either?

Now the most exotic toilet cleaner you can buy is something called
"hot water" (may cham) which is a mild dilution of hydrochloric acid. So mild,
I don't think it will cause skin burns.

Likely a good cleaner, though.

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:59:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Bob Larter wrote:

You're kidding! Why not?

My guess is that someone thinks you can mix ammonia and various household
items to make a bomb,

Ah, but you can! I did it all the time when I was in high school.
Nitrogen triiodide is fun stuff. ;-)

NTI is WICKED stuff ! We used to make it by mixing a very strong household
cleaner called Handy Andy with pure iodine crystals 'borrowed' from the
biology department. For some reason, the ones there were a lot more pure
than any iodine crystals or liquid derivatives available for theft in the
chemistry department ... Once it had been made, and passed through a filter
paper, we used to put it into corked boiling tubes (bigger than half inch
test tubes), and carry it around the school with us in our inside pockets. A
good splat of the stuff on the floor in the corridor, would just about dry
in a lesson period, to the point where it was unstable. At the end of the
lesson, let the teacher leave the class first ... Oh the bang, and that
luvverly cloud of purple smoke rising to the ceiling, and the crackles
underfoot for days afterward when walking down that corridor. The fun of
laughing at the caretaker and his assistant trying to remove the purple
stain blasted into the surface of the tiles ... Then there was the joy of
making delayed fuses for tuppeny bangers by soaking string in .... potassium
nitrate .... was it ? Tape a couple of inches to the top of a banger, then
set light to it and leave it under a seat at the back of the cinema at the
midnight movie. Plenty of time to return to your own seat before it went
off.

Oh happy happy days. What joyous things we learnt in 'real' schools all
those years ago !

Thanks for reminding me of my mis-spent youth. :-))

Arfa

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:49:53 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:59:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Bob Larter wrote:

You're kidding! Why not?

My guess is that someone thinks you can mix ammonia and various household
items to make a bomb,

Ah, but you can! I did it all the time when I was in high school.
Nitrogen triiodide is fun stuff. ;-)

NTI is WICKED stuff ! We used to make it by mixing a very strong household
cleaner called Handy Andy with pure iodine crystals 'borrowed' from the
biology department. For some reason, the ones there were a lot more pure
than any iodine crystals or liquid derivatives available for theft in the
chemistry department ...

Hmm, mine was biological grade too, though only because I had no
access to "chemicals" in high school. ;-) I used a 28% solution of
ammonia water I bought by the gallon in a local drug store. About ten
years ago my mother's best friend married a retired pharmacist (can't
get away with anything, forever). He remembered me and once when we
were visiting, my mother asked "what in the world" I did with all that
ammonia water. My mother was ~85 at that time. ;-)

Once it had been made, and passed through a filter
paper, we used to put it into corked boiling tubes (bigger than half inch
test tubes), and carry it around the school with us in our inside pockets. A
good splat of the stuff on the floor in the corridor, would just about dry
in a lesson period, to the point where it was unstable. At the end of the
lesson, let the teacher leave the class first ... Oh the bang, and that
luvverly cloud of purple smoke rising to the ceiling, and the crackles
underfoot for days afterward when walking down that corridor. The fun of
laughing at the caretaker and his assistant trying to remove the purple
stain blasted into the surface of the tiles ... Then there was the joy of
making delayed fuses for tuppeny bangers by soaking string in .... potassium
nitrate .... was it ? Tape a couple of inches to the top of a banger, then
set light to it and leave it under a seat at the back of the cinema at the
midnight movie. Plenty of time to return to your own seat before it went
off.

NTI is soluble in alcohol and perfectly stable as long as it's "wet".
An artist's paint brush and a classroom lock can generate loads of
fun. My senior year, I also had a master key to the interior locks in
the high school. That was fun too.

Oh happy happy days. What joyous things we learnt in 'real' schools all
those years ago !

Yeah. Kids today...

Thanks for reminding me of my mis-spent youth. :-))

You forgot?