I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

On May 30, 10:51�pm, brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

cost, manufacturers use OEM ONLY boards, so when they decide a model
is obsolete there are no other parts sources.

brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

It would probably cost them $10.00 more per washer/dryer.
The company bean counters look at it as a cost of the
whole company output. If the manufacturer builds a million
units, it would be another ten million in production costs.

I repaired a problem with an electric clothes dryer equipped
with digital controls last week. The dryer was acting weird
and would not behave itself. It turned out to be a loose
connection at the circuit breaker. The arcing of the bad
connection was putting electrical noise on the power circuit
and the electronics and digital displays were going nuts.

TDD

brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

There are companies who will repair washing machine modules at very
resonable prices. here in the UK one such company is QER in Workington.
http://www.qer.biz/servReps.htm

Ron(UK)

On May 30, 9:51*pm, brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

For long life look at Commercial units, they cost double but our last
set lasted 35 years , until they fell apart from rust. Nothing is made
like it used to be, but look at the prices from 10-20 yrs ago, prices
are nearly the same so corners are cut.

The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My
GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at
least another 15.

On May 31, 10:55*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My
GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at
least another 15.

That's why we are sticking with older style (still available) electro-
mechanical control appliances. Also keep around useful bits and pieces
of items that may go wrong!
Presently for example, we are using a well used dryer that cost, some
years ago, one dozen beer (then about $16 Canadian). Guy advertised
it; called him up asked him what kinda beer he liked and was there
within the hour on other side of this small city in my pickup. He and
I got it up some rather steep basement stairs (I'm in my mid 70s!) and
asking him why he was getting rid of an ostensibly good dryer he said
"The wife wanted a new dryer/washer pair"!
Got it home, downstairs by myself and plugged it in; although my
neighbour always ready to help. It's worked fine ever since, although
I did change the plastic hose to a metalized one; apparently insurance
companies have reported older plastic ones can sometimes cause fires!
The only repair need at time was to remake the electrical connection
of the cord on the back before pushing it into position. It had not,
originally been done very well and the outer shell of the rubber cord
had sprung out of the anchor/connector at the dryer.
Our 20 to 25 year old top load washer washer was rebuilt some 5+ years
ago using the tub out of a relative's washer that had transmission
problems (something to do with a bad batch of steel back then?). It
also needs a look at one contact on the timer, it occasionally does
not complete the last two-three minutes of its spin cycle. Got a spare
timer from an identical washer on hand anyway.
Finally replaced the venerable (30 years?) dish washer. It worked OK
but was really noisy and getting quite grungy, with a free one, which
needed only one minor repair (open solenoid coil on water inlet valve)
not as quiet as the most modern ones but it washes better than the one
it replaced.
We are on our third/fourth used stove; but the main point is that none
of these appliances have electronic controls and my level of
technology and spare parts allows for repairing them at low/zero cost.
New electronic control 'boards' etc.are reputed to cost in excess of
$70? One can currently get a complete used appliance for less than
that!
If the electronic control board goes faulty in a microwave appliance
it is usually necessary to scrap the whole thing.
Know what you are doing though. DC voltages of 5000 and microwave
radiation that can 'cook' human flesh and eyes are present.

It can be tougher!

If you ever go to an automobile wrecking yard, take apart something
electronic on a vehicle which has to do with safety. Like an anti-lock brake
electronic control module or an airbag monitoring module or the airbag crash
sensors. These things are built like a tank!

Then take apart something which does not have anything to do with safe
driving, and if it breaks, will not cause any safety issues. Like electric
door locks, power windows, power trunk release, etc. These are all a piece
of junk! And the switches which control these things many times will not be
sealed. This allows dust to get in and the switches stop working after a
period of time.

They want things to break, When things break, they get added revenue from
repairs. Some people will purchase a new vehicle instead of having these
things fixed. It means money for the dealers and manufacturer!

Actually I have seen many lower end products be better quality and the
higher end products have all sorts of things which are designed to break and
need service. I think they do this thinking lower cost product buyers don't
have the money for repairs, but higher end product purchasers do.

Bill wrote:
It can be tougher!

If you ever go to an automobile wrecking yard, take apart something
electronic on a vehicle which has to do with safety. Like an anti-lock brake
electronic control module or an airbag monitoring module or the airbag crash
sensors. These things are built like a tank!

Then take apart something which does not have anything to do with safe
driving, and if it breaks, will not cause any safety issues. Like electric
door locks, power windows, power trunk release, etc. These are all a piece
of junk! And the switches which control these things many times will not be
sealed. This allows dust to get in and the switches stop working after a
period of time.

They want things to break, When things break, they get added revenue from
repairs. Some people will purchase a new vehicle instead of having these
things fixed. It means money for the dealers and manufacturer!

Actually I have seen many lower end products be better quality and the
higher end products have all sorts of things which are designed to break and
need service. I think they do this thinking lower cost product buyers don't
have the money for repairs, but higher end product purchasers do.



Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely
resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused
by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable
electronics manufacturing.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.)
My
GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at
least another 15.



I recently saw on Craig's List one Whirlpool/Kenmore direct-drive top load
washer for free that said it needed a new clutch. I saw another one for
free that said it needed a new motor. Either of these are easy repairs on a
direct-drive. If I had room to store them I would have gotten them for my
daughters (if they ever move out).

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

I had to replace the circuit board on my RV furnace. The old one looked
like it was basically just underbuilt. The circuit paths were very narrow
and all the components were the smallest values possible. The replacement
board from a company that just makes circuit boards was much beefier plus
was a better design as far as function goes.

I don't get it because they could spend a few more bucks on the electronics
and make it more reliable and simply charge a few more bucks for the
appliance. Instead they get a bad reputation.

Ulysses wrote:
"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

I had to replace the circuit board on my RV furnace. The old one looked
like it was basically just underbuilt. The circuit paths were very narrow
and all the components were the smallest values possible. The replacement
board from a company that just makes circuit boards was much beefier plus
was a better design as far as function goes.

I don't get it because they could spend a few more bucks on the electronics
and make it more reliable and simply charge a few more bucks for the
appliance. Instead they get a bad reputation.


Its the "walmart syndrome" at work. People are trained to think that
price and not value is all that matters. So manufacturers do their best
to make cheap stuff to meet low price-low value demands.

On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:12:03 -0400, George
wrote:

Its the "walmart syndrome" at work. People are trained to think that
price and not value is all that matters. So manufacturers do their best
to make cheap stuff to meet low price-low value demands.

Yep. In consumer electronics, for every dollar added to the cost of a
board, the final product ends up costing about $4 more at wholesale,
and perhaps $6 to $8 more at retail. Needless to say, keeping costs
in line is fairly important to the manufacturer. Minimal design and
component selection is epidemic everywhere. Having worked on some of
these designs in the distant past, I can assure you that the choice is
make it cheap or it won't sell. I called it the "NBC" (Nothing But
the Cheapest) effect. However, think positive. The only thing that
has prevented electronics from hitting rock bottom in quality are the
various regulatory and certification agencies, which demand a minimal
level of quality to insure the survival of the user, not the product.

Drivel: One of my friends is a rabid advocate for enforced quality in
product design. He wants minimum Federal quality standards for
consumer products along with mandatory lifetime testing, mandatory
warranties, and litigatory relief. His theory is that if the US can't
compete on the basis of price, it will need to do so on the basis of
quality. Sounds like a plan. However, he recently rebuilt and
remodeled his garage and bathroom. Instead of the highest quality
contractor, he went for the cheapest and lowest bid, with predictable
problems and over-runs. When I suggested this might be a bit
hypocritical, he got very angry claiming he couldn't afford the best.
Welcome to where theory meets reality.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

$$$

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

On May 31, 5:55*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My
GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at
least another 15.

That's a good plan, but hard to implement.
When my washer last died, the problem was a riveted switch/relay
assembly that's no longer made; I was able to patch in a
relay in parallel with the defunct component, because the
schematic was printed on the box.

It wouldn't have been easy to trace the fault without the
schematic, and it would have taken a lot of remachining to
fix 'just like new'. The fault was with conventional controls that
were
mass-produced in complex assemblies.
My replacement relay was a tiny gold-plated aircraft/military
part, with four times the capacity of the original.

So, for repairability, you need
(1) conventional controls
(2) conventional (no surprises inside) components, preferably labeled
(3) documented functional blocks, so you can determine what function
failed.

On May 31, 11:58*am, "Ulysses" wrote:
"brassplyer" wrote in message

...

I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

I had to replace the circuit board on my RV furnace. *The old one looked
like it was basically just underbuilt. *The circuit paths were very narrow
and all the components were the smallest values possible. *The replacement
board from a company that just makes circuit boards was much beefier plus
was a better design as far as function goes.

I don't get it because they could spend a few more bucks on the electronics
and make it more reliable and simply charge a few more bucks for the
appliance. *Instead they get a bad reputation.

I used to repair similar circuit boards often replacing the parts with
beefier ,better quality parts. I worked myself out of a job. The
particular boards I was repairing were only used by a reativly few and
once I made my repairs/mods they almost never failed again. Part of
may also have been that my customers realized I wasnt actually
troublshooting the board, rather I was repacing everything on the
board with better parts. They could do that for themselves.

Jimmie

Ulysses wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.)
My
GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at
least another 15.



I recently saw on Craig's List one Whirlpool/Kenmore direct-drive top load
washer for free that said it needed a new clutch. I saw another one for
free that said it needed a new motor. Either of these are easy repairs on a
direct-drive. If I had room to store them I would have gotten them for my
daughters (if they ever move out).


If you collect enough of them, your daughters will HAVE to move out!
;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Nate Nagel wrote:

Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely
resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused
by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable
electronics manufacturing.


Are you sure they aren't using Lucas?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
|
| Nate Nagel wrote:
|
| Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely
| resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused
| by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable
| electronics manufacturing.
|
|
| Are you sure they aren't using Lucas?
|
Old joke:

Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?
A: They have Lucas refigerators.

On Sun, 31 May 2009 16:48:44 -0700, iws wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
om...
|
| Nate Nagel wrote:
|
| Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely
| resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused
| by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable
| electronics manufacturing.
|
|
| Are you sure they aren't using Lucas?
|
Old joke:

Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?
A: They have Lucas refigerators.


Q: Why don't the British make TV sets?
A: They can't get them to leak oil.
A2: They can make anything leak oil.

Steve Barker wrote:

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?
It's a motor and a heat element.

Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having
"crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in
10^9.

Sylvia.

In article , Sylvia Else wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?
It's a motor and a heat element.

Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having
"crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in
10^9.

Crystals aren't that good unless especially good and in
temperatrure-controlled ovens. I would hope for one part in 10^6 to one
part in 10^7 or so.

Meanwhile, crystal oscillator circuits are not expensive to make. Even
modules of such are easily available and cost maybe a couple bucks or so,
maybe closer to a buck in quantities of tens or hundreds of thousands.
Cheaper crystal oscillator circuits may be had for something like 50-60
cents each in quantities of tens of thousands.

The alternative for reliably having a complete cycle's timing down to
seconds out of an hour is "power line time base", costing a fraction of a
buck, probably a smaller fraction, less than cheaper crystal oscillator
options.

Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances -
and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency,
and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%,
meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in
either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used.

Mechanical timers use "synchronous motors", which gives "power line time
base", good enough to make electric clocks with. Many digital electric
clocks use electronic means to make use of "power line frequency time
base".

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:

Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances -
and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency,
and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%,
meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in
either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used.

I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than
adequate.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances
- and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting
frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium
prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably
better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line
time base is used.

I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than
adequate.

Sylvia.

No, because time and Tide wait for no man.

--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little ****ant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

On May 31, 3:45*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
brassplyer wrote:

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?


They all appear to have various bells & whistles - specific setting
for various fabrics, variable speed this, sensor something or other
that, various lights, LED time remaining readout etc. etc

In contrast, the Speed Queen front load units at the laundromat have
about 4 buttons for different temps and that's it - a mechanical
pointer gauge indicates approximately where it is in the cycle. It
might adjust the water level depending on the load size but I can't
say for sure. If there's a front loader made in a similar barebones
way for the home market I haven't seen one at Home Depot or Lowes.
You'd think there would be a market for it. I assume those commercial
units are expensive.

I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10%
would be more than adequate.

No, because time and Tide wait for no man.

If the washer has an automatic detergent dispenser, the Tide needn't wait.

brassplyer wrote:

I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my
suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be
correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board
only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too.

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?

The EU has made it less bullettproof by insisting on lead-free solder. It
doesn't like vibration.

Graham

--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious
adjustment to my email address

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10%
would be more than adequate.

No, because time and Tide wait for no man.

If the washer has an automatic detergent dispenser, the Tide needn't wait.


I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^)

I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^)

Do you mean Duz?

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^)

Do you mean Duz?


No, I meant Daz

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.)
My
GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at
least another 15.


I recently saw on Craig's List one Whirlpool/Kenmore direct-drive top load
washer for free that said it needed a new clutch. I saw another one for
free that said it needed a new motor. Either of these are easy repairs on a
direct-drive. If I had room to store them I would have gotten them for my
daughters (if they ever move out).


If you collect enough of them, your daughters will HAVE to move out!
;-)

Hell, you can swap daughters for appliances. ;^)

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely
resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused
by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable
electronics manufacturing.


Are you sure they aren't using Lucas?

Lord of Darkness?

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Sylvia Else wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?
It's a motor and a heat element.

Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having
"crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in
10^9.

Jeez. I haven't run into that one in person, but it wouldn't surprise
me. The current craze for insane amounts of megapixels in digicams with
toy lenses is a very similar problem.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , Sylvia Else wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?
It's a motor and a heat element.
Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having
"crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in
10^9.

Crystals aren't that good unless especially good and in
temperatrure-controlled ovens. I would hope for one part in 10^6 to one
part in 10^7 or so.

A washing machine could be out by 20% or more without causing a problem.

The traditional synchronous motor is more than accurate enough for the
application.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Sylvia Else wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances
- and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting
frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium
prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably
better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line
time base is used.

I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than
adequate.

It would be. Washing machines used to use synchronous motors driving a
cam, which was far more accurate than necessary to do the job properly.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Plague Boy wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component
tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components
affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at
premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly
reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or
power line time base is used.

I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than
adequate.

Sylvia.

No, because time and Tide wait for no man.


*groan*

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

brassplyer wrote:
On May 31, 3:45 pm, Steve Barker wrote:
brassplyer wrote:

For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the
control circuitry be made more bulletproof?
Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?


They all appear to have various bells & whistles - specific setting
for various fabrics, variable speed this, sensor something or other
that, various lights, LED time remaining readout etc. etc

In contrast, the Speed Queen front load units at the laundromat have
about 4 buttons for different temps and that's it - a mechanical
pointer gauge indicates approximately where it is in the cycle. It
might adjust the water level depending on the load size but I can't
say for sure. If there's a front loader made in a similar barebones
way for the home market I haven't seen one at Home Depot or Lowes.
You'd think there would be a market for it. I assume those commercial
units are expensive.

They are, but they last forever. Buy one, & you'll never need to buy
another one. Contrast that to the modern domestic units, where you'll be
lucky to get 3 years out of them.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:00:02 +1000, Bob Larter wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?
It's a motor and a heat element.

Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having
"crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in
10^9.

Jeez. I haven't run into that one in person, but it wouldn't surprise
me. The current craze for insane amounts of megapixels in digicams with
toy lenses is a very similar problem.

Reminds me of DVM's with 3 1/2 digit readouts and 1% accuracy. The last
digit is just noise.

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:12:03 -0400, George
wrote:

Its the "walmart syndrome" at work. People are trained to think that
price and not value is all that matters. So manufacturers do their best
to make cheap stuff to meet low price-low value demands.

Yep. In consumer electronics, for every dollar added to the cost of a
board, the final product ends up costing about $4 more at wholesale,
and perhaps $6 to $8 more at retail. Needless to say, keeping costs
in line is fairly important to the manufacturer. Minimal design and
component selection is epidemic everywhere. Having worked on some of
these designs in the distant past, I can assure you that the choice is
make it cheap or it won't sell. I called it the "NBC" (Nothing But
the Cheapest) effect. However, think positive. The only thing that
has prevented electronics from hitting rock bottom in quality are the
various regulatory and certification agencies, which demand a minimal
level of quality to insure the survival of the user, not the product.

Drivel: One of my friends is a rabid advocate for enforced quality in
product design. He wants minimum Federal quality standards for
consumer products along with mandatory lifetime testing, mandatory
warranties, and litigatory relief. His theory is that if the US can't
compete on the basis of price, it will need to do so on the basis of
quality. Sounds like a plan.

I have become extremely hesitant to buy any electronics any more. All of
the stuff seems to be crap that barely outlasts the warranty. For the first
time I actually paid for an extended warranty on a DVD recorder and ended up
needing it. I have to look at it now as if it costs $400 (including
extended 3 year warranty) then I have to pay $100 per year in order to have
the luxury of a DVD recorder. If it last longer than that then it's just
luck and I sure don't count on it. My daughter has a Kodak digital camera.
It lasted just past the warranty. Kodak wants more to fix it than a new one
with more features costs. Meanwhile my old Brownie, Instamatic, and other
cheap, bottom-of-the-line Kodak cameras still work fine. The Brownie is
probably over 60 years old.

However, he recently rebuilt and
remodeled his garage and bathroom. Instead of the highest quality
contractor, he went for the cheapest and lowest bid, with predictable
problems and over-runs. When I suggested this might be a bit
hypocritical, he got very angry claiming he couldn't afford the best.
Welcome to where theory meets reality.

Your friend is a Democrat?




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:

Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all?
It's a motor and a heat element.

Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having
"crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in
10^9.

LMOA.

Sylvia.