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Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to
be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On May 30, 10:51�pm, brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? cost, manufacturers use OEM ONLY boards, so when they decide a model is obsolete there are no other parts sources. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? It would probably cost them $10.00 more per washer/dryer. The company bean counters look at it as a cost of the whole company output. If the manufacturer builds a million units, it would be another ten million in production costs. I repaired a problem with an electric clothes dryer equipped with digital controls last week. The dryer was acting weird and would not behave itself. It turned out to be a loose connection at the circuit breaker. The arcing of the bad connection was putting electrical noise on the power circuit and the electronics and digital displays were going nuts. TDD |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? There are companies who will repair washing machine modules at very resonable prices. here in the UK one such company is QER in Workington. http://www.qer.biz/servReps.htm Ron(UK) |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On May 30, 9:51*pm, brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? For long life look at Commercial units, they cost double but our last set lasted 35 years , until they fell apart from rust. Nothing is made like it used to be, but look at the prices from 10-20 yrs ago, prices are nearly the same so corners are cut. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with
conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at least another 15. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On May 31, 10:55*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at least another 15. That's why we are sticking with older style (still available) electro- mechanical control appliances. Also keep around useful bits and pieces of items that may go wrong! Presently for example, we are using a well used dryer that cost, some years ago, one dozen beer (then about $16 Canadian). Guy advertised it; called him up asked him what kinda beer he liked and was there within the hour on other side of this small city in my pickup. He and I got it up some rather steep basement stairs (I'm in my mid 70s!) and asking him why he was getting rid of an ostensibly good dryer he said "The wife wanted a new dryer/washer pair"! Got it home, downstairs by myself and plugged it in; although my neighbour always ready to help. It's worked fine ever since, although I did change the plastic hose to a metalized one; apparently insurance companies have reported older plastic ones can sometimes cause fires! The only repair need at time was to remake the electrical connection of the cord on the back before pushing it into position. It had not, originally been done very well and the outer shell of the rubber cord had sprung out of the anchor/connector at the dryer. Our 20 to 25 year old top load washer washer was rebuilt some 5+ years ago using the tub out of a relative's washer that had transmission problems (something to do with a bad batch of steel back then?). It also needs a look at one contact on the timer, it occasionally does not complete the last two-three minutes of its spin cycle. Got a spare timer from an identical washer on hand anyway. Finally replaced the venerable (30 years?) dish washer. It worked OK but was really noisy and getting quite grungy, with a free one, which needed only one minor repair (open solenoid coil on water inlet valve) not as quiet as the most modern ones but it washes better than the one it replaced. We are on our third/fourth used stove; but the main point is that none of these appliances have electronic controls and my level of technology and spare parts allows for repairing them at low/zero cost. New electronic control 'boards' etc.are reputed to cost in excess of $70? One can currently get a complete used appliance for less than that! If the electronic control board goes faulty in a microwave appliance it is usually necessary to scrap the whole thing. Know what you are doing though. DC voltages of 5000 and microwave radiation that can 'cook' human flesh and eyes are present. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
It can be tougher!
If you ever go to an automobile wrecking yard, take apart something electronic on a vehicle which has to do with safety. Like an anti-lock brake electronic control module or an airbag monitoring module or the airbag crash sensors. These things are built like a tank! Then take apart something which does not have anything to do with safe driving, and if it breaks, will not cause any safety issues. Like electric door locks, power windows, power trunk release, etc. These are all a piece of junk! And the switches which control these things many times will not be sealed. This allows dust to get in and the switches stop working after a period of time. They want things to break, When things break, they get added revenue from repairs. Some people will purchase a new vehicle instead of having these things fixed. It means money for the dealers and manufacturer! Actually I have seen many lower end products be better quality and the higher end products have all sorts of things which are designed to break and need service. I think they do this thinking lower cost product buyers don't have the money for repairs, but higher end product purchasers do. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Bill wrote:
It can be tougher! If you ever go to an automobile wrecking yard, take apart something electronic on a vehicle which has to do with safety. Like an anti-lock brake electronic control module or an airbag monitoring module or the airbag crash sensors. These things are built like a tank! Then take apart something which does not have anything to do with safe driving, and if it breaks, will not cause any safety issues. Like electric door locks, power windows, power trunk release, etc. These are all a piece of junk! And the switches which control these things many times will not be sealed. This allows dust to get in and the switches stop working after a period of time. They want things to break, When things break, they get added revenue from repairs. Some people will purchase a new vehicle instead of having these things fixed. It means money for the dealers and manufacturer! Actually I have seen many lower end products be better quality and the higher end products have all sorts of things which are designed to break and need service. I think they do this thinking lower cost product buyers don't have the money for repairs, but higher end product purchasers do. Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable electronics manufacturing. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at least another 15. I recently saw on Craig's List one Whirlpool/Kenmore direct-drive top load washer for free that said it needed a new clutch. I saw another one for free that said it needed a new motor. Either of these are easy repairs on a direct-drive. If I had room to store them I would have gotten them for my daughters (if they ever move out). |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
"brassplyer" wrote in message ... I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? I had to replace the circuit board on my RV furnace. The old one looked like it was basically just underbuilt. The circuit paths were very narrow and all the components were the smallest values possible. The replacement board from a company that just makes circuit boards was much beefier plus was a better design as far as function goes. I don't get it because they could spend a few more bucks on the electronics and make it more reliable and simply charge a few more bucks for the appliance. Instead they get a bad reputation. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Ulysses wrote:
"brassplyer" wrote in message ... I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? I had to replace the circuit board on my RV furnace. The old one looked like it was basically just underbuilt. The circuit paths were very narrow and all the components were the smallest values possible. The replacement board from a company that just makes circuit boards was much beefier plus was a better design as far as function goes. I don't get it because they could spend a few more bucks on the electronics and make it more reliable and simply charge a few more bucks for the appliance. Instead they get a bad reputation. Its the "walmart syndrome" at work. People are trained to think that price and not value is all that matters. So manufacturers do their best to make cheap stuff to meet low price-low value demands. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:12:03 -0400, George
wrote: Its the "walmart syndrome" at work. People are trained to think that price and not value is all that matters. So manufacturers do their best to make cheap stuff to meet low price-low value demands. Yep. In consumer electronics, for every dollar added to the cost of a board, the final product ends up costing about $4 more at wholesale, and perhaps $6 to $8 more at retail. Needless to say, keeping costs in line is fairly important to the manufacturer. Minimal design and component selection is epidemic everywhere. Having worked on some of these designs in the distant past, I can assure you that the choice is make it cheap or it won't sell. I called it the "NBC" (Nothing But the Cheapest) effect. However, think positive. The only thing that has prevented electronics from hitting rock bottom in quality are the various regulatory and certification agencies, which demand a minimal level of quality to insure the survival of the user, not the product. Drivel: One of my friends is a rabid advocate for enforced quality in product design. He wants minimum Federal quality standards for consumer products along with mandatory lifetime testing, mandatory warranties, and litigatory relief. His theory is that if the US can't compete on the basis of price, it will need to do so on the basis of quality. Sounds like a plan. However, he recently rebuilt and remodeled his garage and bathroom. Instead of the highest quality contractor, he went for the cheapest and lowest bid, with predictable problems and over-runs. When I suggested this might be a bit hypocritical, he got very angry claiming he couldn't afford the best. Welcome to where theory meets reality. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
brassplyer wrote:
I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? $$$ -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On May 31, 5:55*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at least another 15. That's a good plan, but hard to implement. When my washer last died, the problem was a riveted switch/relay assembly that's no longer made; I was able to patch in a relay in parallel with the defunct component, because the schematic was printed on the box. It wouldn't have been easy to trace the fault without the schematic, and it would have taken a lot of remachining to fix 'just like new'. The fault was with conventional controls that were mass-produced in complex assemblies. My replacement relay was a tiny gold-plated aircraft/military part, with four times the capacity of the original. So, for repairability, you need (1) conventional controls (2) conventional (no surprises inside) components, preferably labeled (3) documented functional blocks, so you can determine what function failed. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On May 31, 11:58*am, "Ulysses" wrote:
"brassplyer" wrote in message ... I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? I had to replace the circuit board on my RV furnace. *The old one looked like it was basically just underbuilt. *The circuit paths were very narrow and all the components were the smallest values possible. *The replacement board from a company that just makes circuit boards was much beefier plus was a better design as far as function goes. I don't get it because they could spend a few more bucks on the electronics and make it more reliable and simply charge a few more bucks for the appliance. *Instead they get a bad reputation. I used to repair similar circuit boards often replacing the parts with beefier ,better quality parts. I worked myself out of a job. The particular boards I was repairing were only used by a reativly few and once I made my repairs/mods they almost never failed again. Part of may also have been that my customers realized I wasnt actually troublshooting the board, rather I was repacing everything on the board with better parts. They could do that for themselves. Jimmie |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Ulysses wrote: "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at least another 15. I recently saw on Craig's List one Whirlpool/Kenmore direct-drive top load washer for free that said it needed a new clutch. I saw another one for free that said it needed a new motor. Either of these are easy repairs on a direct-drive. If I had room to store them I would have gotten them for my daughters (if they ever move out). If you collect enough of them, your daughters will HAVE to move out! ;-) -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Nate Nagel wrote: Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable electronics manufacturing. Are you sure they aren't using Lucas? -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m... | | Nate Nagel wrote: | | Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely | resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused | by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable | electronics manufacturing. | | | Are you sure they aren't using Lucas? | Old joke: Q: Why do the English drink warm beer? A: They have Lucas refigerators. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On Sun, 31 May 2009 16:48:44 -0700, iws wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message om... | | Nate Nagel wrote: | | Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely | resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused | by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable | electronics manufacturing. | | | Are you sure they aren't using Lucas? | Old joke: Q: Why do the English drink warm beer? A: They have Lucas refigerators. Q: Why don't the British make TV sets? A: They can't get them to leak oil. A2: They can make anything leak oil. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Steve Barker wrote:
Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? It's a motor and a heat element. Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in 10^9. Sylvia. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
In article , Sylvia Else wrote:
Steve Barker wrote: Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? It's a motor and a heat element. Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in 10^9. Crystals aren't that good unless especially good and in temperatrure-controlled ovens. I would hope for one part in 10^6 to one part in 10^7 or so. Meanwhile, crystal oscillator circuits are not expensive to make. Even modules of such are easily available and cost maybe a couple bucks or so, maybe closer to a buck in quantities of tens or hundreds of thousands. Cheaper crystal oscillator circuits may be had for something like 50-60 cents each in quantities of tens of thousands. The alternative for reliably having a complete cycle's timing down to seconds out of an hour is "power line time base", costing a fraction of a buck, probably a smaller fraction, less than cheaper crystal oscillator options. Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used. Mechanical timers use "synchronous motors", which gives "power line time base", good enough to make electric clocks with. Many digital electric clocks use electronic means to make use of "power line frequency time base". - Don Klipstein ) |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Don Klipstein wrote:
Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used. I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than adequate. Sylvia. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Sylvia Else wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote: Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used. I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than adequate. Sylvia. No, because time and Tide wait for no man. -- PB "I suspect you're an arrogant little ****ant who grew up in the Red Bull generation." - CJW |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On May 31, 3:45*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
brassplyer wrote: For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? They all appear to have various bells & whistles - specific setting for various fabrics, variable speed this, sensor something or other that, various lights, LED time remaining readout etc. etc In contrast, the Speed Queen front load units at the laundromat have about 4 buttons for different temps and that's it - a mechanical pointer gauge indicates approximately where it is in the cycle. It might adjust the water level depending on the load size but I can't say for sure. If there's a front loader made in a similar barebones way for the home market I haven't seen one at Home Depot or Lowes. You'd think there would be a market for it. I assume those commercial units are expensive. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10%
would be more than adequate. No, because time and Tide wait for no man. If the washer has an automatic detergent dispenser, the Tide needn't wait. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
brassplyer wrote: I see these newer dryers and front-load washers have what I assume to be some kind of IC control circuitry and from what I've seen my suspicions about this being a likely point of failure appear to be correct. LG warranties the motor for 10 years but the circuit board only for 2. I'm betting it's expensive to replace too. For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? The EU has made it less bullettproof by insisting on lead-free solder. It doesn't like vibration. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than adequate. No, because time and Tide wait for no man. If the washer has an automatic detergent dispenser, the Tide needn't wait. I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^) |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^)
Do you mean Duz? |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^) Do you mean Duz? No, I meant Daz |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ulysses wrote: "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... The obvious solution to this problem is to buy laundry equipment with conventional electro-mechanical controls. (Assuming they're still made.) My GE washer and dryer are over 10 years old, and I expect them to last at least another 15. I recently saw on Craig's List one Whirlpool/Kenmore direct-drive top load washer for free that said it needed a new clutch. I saw another one for free that said it needed a new motor. Either of these are easy repairs on a direct-drive. If I had room to store them I would have gotten them for my daughters (if they ever move out). If you collect enough of them, your daughters will HAVE to move out! ;-) Hell, you can swap daughters for appliances. ;^) -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote: Having had to have the DME (Porsche-speak for ECM) on my 944 completely resoldered a few years ago to allow the car to run reliably, I am amused by your post... I guess Bosch is not the end-all be-all of reliable electronics manufacturing. Are you sure they aren't using Lucas? Lord of Darkness? -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Sylvia Else wrote:
Steve Barker wrote: Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? It's a motor and a heat element. Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in 10^9. Jeez. I haven't run into that one in person, but it wouldn't surprise me. The current craze for insane amounts of megapixels in digicams with toy lenses is a very similar problem. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , Sylvia Else wrote: Steve Barker wrote: Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? It's a motor and a heat element. Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in 10^9. Crystals aren't that good unless especially good and in temperatrure-controlled ovens. I would hope for one part in 10^6 to one part in 10^7 or so. A washing machine could be out by 20% or more without causing a problem. The traditional synchronous motor is more than accurate enough for the application. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Sylvia Else wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote: Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used. I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than adequate. It would be. Washing machines used to use synchronous motors driving a cam, which was far more accurate than necessary to do the job properly. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
Plague Boy wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote: Don Klipstein wrote: Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used. I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than adequate. Sylvia. No, because time and Tide wait for no man. *groan* -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
brassplyer wrote:
On May 31, 3:45 pm, Steve Barker wrote: brassplyer wrote: For as many years as this technology has been around, why can't the control circuitry be made more bulletproof? Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? They all appear to have various bells & whistles - specific setting for various fabrics, variable speed this, sensor something or other that, various lights, LED time remaining readout etc. etc In contrast, the Speed Queen front load units at the laundromat have about 4 buttons for different temps and that's it - a mechanical pointer gauge indicates approximately where it is in the cycle. It might adjust the water level depending on the load size but I can't say for sure. If there's a front loader made in a similar barebones way for the home market I haven't seen one at Home Depot or Lowes. You'd think there would be a market for it. I assume those commercial units are expensive. They are, but they last forever. Buy one, & you'll never need to buy another one. Contrast that to the modern domestic units, where you'll be lucky to get 3 years out of them. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:00:02 +1000, Bob Larter wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote: Steve Barker wrote: Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? It's a motor and a heat element. Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in 10^9. Jeez. I haven't run into that one in person, but it wouldn't surprise me. The current craze for insane amounts of megapixels in digicams with toy lenses is a very similar problem. Reminds me of DVM's with 3 1/2 digit readouts and 1% accuracy. The last digit is just noise. |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:12:03 -0400, George wrote: Its the "walmart syndrome" at work. People are trained to think that price and not value is all that matters. So manufacturers do their best to make cheap stuff to meet low price-low value demands. Yep. In consumer electronics, for every dollar added to the cost of a board, the final product ends up costing about $4 more at wholesale, and perhaps $6 to $8 more at retail. Needless to say, keeping costs in line is fairly important to the manufacturer. Minimal design and component selection is epidemic everywhere. Having worked on some of these designs in the distant past, I can assure you that the choice is make it cheap or it won't sell. I called it the "NBC" (Nothing But the Cheapest) effect. However, think positive. The only thing that has prevented electronics from hitting rock bottom in quality are the various regulatory and certification agencies, which demand a minimal level of quality to insure the survival of the user, not the product. Drivel: One of my friends is a rabid advocate for enforced quality in product design. He wants minimum Federal quality standards for consumer products along with mandatory lifetime testing, mandatory warranties, and litigatory relief. His theory is that if the US can't compete on the basis of price, it will need to do so on the basis of quality. Sounds like a plan. I have become extremely hesitant to buy any electronics any more. All of the stuff seems to be crap that barely outlasts the warranty. For the first time I actually paid for an extended warranty on a DVD recorder and ended up needing it. I have to look at it now as if it costs $400 (including extended 3 year warranty) then I have to pay $100 per year in order to have the luxury of a DVD recorder. If it last longer than that then it's just luck and I sure don't count on it. My daughter has a Kodak digital camera. It lasted just past the warranty. Kodak wants more to fix it than a new one with more features costs. Meanwhile my old Brownie, Instamatic, and other cheap, bottom-of-the-line Kodak cameras still work fine. The Brownie is probably over 60 years old. However, he recently rebuilt and remodeled his garage and bathroom. Instead of the highest quality contractor, he went for the cheapest and lowest bid, with predictable problems and over-runs. When I suggested this might be a bit hypocritical, he got very angry claiming he couldn't afford the best. Welcome to where theory meets reality. Your friend is a Democrat? -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?
"Sylvia Else" wrote in message ... Steve Barker wrote: Well when you get right down to it, why does it need circuitry at all? It's a motor and a heat element. Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in 10^9. LMOA. Sylvia. |
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