wrote:

The Battery Commander may have held the paper, but the Maintenance
Chief, which I was, for all intents and purposes owned the system
as much as any piece of issued military equipment can be owned.


Yeah? Then I want my AFRTS radio and TV stations back.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know
that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the
receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak
powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

10.4 * 10**6 * 6 * 10**-6 = 62.4 watts average power.

Hawk 2nd generation tracking HPIR CW RADAR AN/MPQ 39 power seems to have
not yet been revealed publicly. It has been publicly stated that the AN/MPQ
39 power output level exceeded that of the earlier AN/MPQ 33, which was 125
watts. This is a vast understatement!

In sci.physics Michael A. Terrell wrote:
wrote:

The Battery Commander may have held the paper, but the Maintenance
Chief, which I was, for all intents and purposes owned the system
as much as any piece of issued military equipment can be owned.


Yeah? Then I want my AFRTS radio and TV stations back.

I never did anything with TV stations, but I also have some time
instructing maintenance on the 50 kW AM transmitters used by
AFRS; the mobile version the CA troops would role in after a dust
up to calm the locals.


Been there, done that, got a DD-214, a life-time ID card and a monthly
check from Dfas-Cleveland.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know
that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the
receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak
powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

10.4 * 10**6 * 6 * 10**-6 = 62.4 watts average power.

Hawk 2nd generation tracking HPIR CW RADAR AN/MPQ 39 power seems to have
not yet been revealed publicly. It has been publicly stated that the AN/MPQ
39 power output level exceeded that of the earlier AN/MPQ 33, which was 125
watts. This is a vast understatement!

You forgot to allow for the PRT.

The HIPAR average power was 26 kW.

The LOPAR was 1 MW peak, 1.3 microseconds pulse width, 650 W average.

The Hawk was OK when it worked instead of digging trenches while
chasing jack rabbits around McGreggor Range.

I heard the latest generation of Hawk doesn't do that.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Paul E. Schoen wrote:

"Spob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

:-)



I saw a device called "The Mosquito", that emits high frequency audio noise
that can be heard by most young people, and not so much by more mature
adults.

Surely most rappers have ruined their ears by now. I saw an article
recently that proclaimed (almost with pride) that a particular audio
device being touted could cause permanent hearing loss within an hour.

These devices can be installed where these punks hang out, and
eventually they find it irritating enough to move on to some other place.
Probably such a device with power great enough, and a focused speaker,
could be directed at the miscreant and make him very uncomfortable.

Another possibility is a similar focused sound transmitter that would very
loudly play Opera, or Polka. Even better, mix the two together and really
scramble the few remaining brain cells of the offender. Have an automatic
volume control to set the transmitted sound level to be proportional to
that detected. Probably 140 db of Kathleen Battle and Happy Louie would do
the job. And be at least as legal as the offender's subwoofer.

But I'd also want to have backup from my buddies Smith and Wesson!

Paul




--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

James Sweet posted to sci.electronics.design:


"Spob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and
saggass britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of
the store with some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out
of his truck for everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be
surreptitiously aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some
crucial components? It would have to be able to do it on a pretty
localized basis without causing damage to the person aiming the
gizmo or innocent bystanders or their car's electronics. Whether
it would fry any additional components of said target punk's car
isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

:-)


No chance someone like that is listening to broadcast radio.
There's nothing covert you could build that wouldn't damage people
too.

Naw, a 30-06 would do the job nicely. But damaging the owner as
well does sound like a good idea. Perhaps a longitudinal shot
through the gas tank and the power amplifier could be best.

On Aug 19, 6:15 pm, wrote:
In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:



On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.
The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.
BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.
John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

As the temperature rises due to frequency increase, the "lines of
polarizability" begin to destabilize to the point where M becomes zero
because the thermal energy is greater than that supplied by the
internal field.
More than *one* waveguide, then.

Michael A. Terrell posted to
sci.electronics.design:

msg wrote:

Spob wrote:

snip

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be
surreptitiously aimed at the offending stereo system to fry
some crucial components?

snip

I assume many high power radar site operators have pet stories to
tell, but I remember one that deserves a retelling:

There was a Merritt Island cop who set up a speed trap on a road
perhaps
a mile downroad from a powerful range tracking radar station.
The operators were not amused with the daily harassment from him
and decided to make his
life a little more interesting and theirs a little less hassled.
Siting the cop's squad car in the telescoping aiming site of the
radar dish, one of the
operators briefly keyed a pulse train and watched. Soon the car
left but
returned the next day. Again the operator sited and pulsed the
car and again
it left. After the third day it did not return. I do not know
if the tracking radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band,
however I do know that 1MW of microwaves was sufficiently
nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to burn out its front end.

Regards,

Michael


Bull****. The antennas rotate, but the elevation is fixed.
There is
no telescope on any RADAR Antenna, and no way to "Siting the cop's
squad
car". There are no keying of brief pulses, the system works with
a
steady stream of pulsed RF, and measuring the reflected signals.
I did some RADAR work in the US Army, and there was a pair of 2 MW
pulsed
RADAR transmitters in our building. You are spreading an urban
legend,
with enough holes to sink the Titanic (again). If the RADAR
equipment in a cruiser WAS damaged, it was because the idiot cop
was too close to
the RADAR site, and it was a coincidence. Even this is hard to
believe, because RADAR sites are usually well inside a fenced
area, far from
civilian areas, and high enough to clear close in ground clutter.
The high gain, highly directional antennas do not radiate enough
near field RF to do any damage, unless the cruiser was on very
high a hilltop, and less than a 1/4 mile from the RADAR site.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my
DD214 to prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I have seen plenty of that type radar. It is not the only type.
Physically two axis mobile radars predominate in the military, or
did you forget? Newer military radars do not even have moving
antennas, they are electronically "steered". Both are capable of
sending a multi-megawatt beam where desired. Though a few
kilowatts would be enough.

John Popelish posted to sci.electronics.design:

Spob wrote:
Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and
saggass britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of
the store with some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out
of his truck for everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be
surreptitiously aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some
crucial components?
(snip)

Could it be built? Certainly. I can think of half a dozen
focused energy technologies that are within present human
technical capability. They are usually referred to as weapons.

Would you be able to afford it? Probably not. Would it be
legal to own and operate? Almost certainly not.

Nor would it be as portable as a 30-06.

Benj posted to sci.electronics.design:


Dear Leader wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message
...

Fry?...don't think so. However, take a look at this:

FYI- there is a system already fielded for 20 years, that does
fry electronics, military uses it.

Yes, "fry". Did you guys see the 60 minutes piece some time ago
about some "inventor" who had a device to "fry" auto computers.
Details were sparce, but clearly seemed to be some kind of cross
between a tesla
coil and a microwave pulser. He stopped a running car at some
distance (cheated by having hood up).

The point is that any solid state device always has a bunch of
semi- conductors that follow the rule: Semiconductor parts make
better fuses
than fuses! Usually most solid state circuit boards have some of
these are low voltage parts that can't take much emi.

I wouldn't be surprised if cops had emi car stoppers right now.
Sure beats a 100 MPH chase or those tire spikes that could send a
100 MPH
car into a neighborhood house. I have also heard rumors that all
modern car computers have "secret" codes that can be transmitted
into
them that stops them. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Only Vista OS computers that. It is advertised as a feature.

In sci.physics 77ogrA wrote:
On Aug 19, 6:15 pm, wrote:
In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:



On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.
The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.
BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.
John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

As the temperature rises due to frequency increase, the "lines of
polarizability" begin to destabilize to the point where M becomes zero
because the thermal energy is greater than that supplied by the
internal field.
More than *one* waveguide, then.

What temperature rise due to what frequency increase?

This sounds like babble to me.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Aug 19, 7:25 pm, wrote:
In sci.physics 77ogrA wrote:



On Aug 19, 6:15 pm, wrote:
In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.
The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.
BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.
John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
As the temperature rises due to frequency increase, the "lines of
polarizability" begin to destabilize to the point where M becomes zero
because the thermal energy is greater than that supplied by the
internal field.
More than *one* waveguide, then.

What temperature rise due to what frequency increase?

This sounds like babble to me.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Increased "pulse repetition rate" is also pulse repetition
"frequency".At a high enough repetition rate(frequency) a device heats
up to the point where it stops becoming a wave guide and becomes a hot
widget.
I have made BaTiO3 waveguides, among others.What did *you* mean by
"waveguide"?
Leo "thanks" Sgouros

Spob wrote:
Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

If you figure it out, maybe we could come up with a sequel in the "Phone
Phryer" - something to nuke cel phones of gabbing drivers. Or at least
some kind of jammer for use in movie theaters and what not...

wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know
that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the
receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak
powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its
peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical
generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

10.4 * 10**6 * 6 * 10**-6 = 62.4 watts average power.

Hawk 2nd generation tracking HPIR CW RADAR AN/MPQ 39 power seems to have
not yet been revealed publicly. It has been publicly stated that the
AN/MPQ
39 power output level exceeded that of the earlier AN/MPQ 33, which was
125
watts. This is a vast understatement!

You forgot to allow for the PRT.

Which was?

The HIPAR average power was 26 kW.

Then it was a whole 'nuther thing compared the pulse ack that was part of
the Hawk system I worked on.

The LOPAR was 1 MW peak, 1.3 microseconds pulse width, 650 W average.

The Hawk was OK when it worked instead of digging trenches while
chasing jack rabbits around McGreggor Range.

Admittedly, not a lot of techs could keep the Hawk CW equipment working
reliably. Many stuggled to get through their one week a month.

I heard the latest generation of Hawk doesn't do that.

For openers, the Improved Hawk, which was still on the horizon when I ETS'd
out, was finally solid state. The biggest detriments to the Hawk I worked
on were the 100's of tubes ( about 400 in one HIPIR), and the fact that
everything was Doppler which means broadband audio (30-30KHz). MTBF was
about day, but only on a good day. Some subsytems were DC-coupled. There
were zillions of adjustments and many had to be done several times a day.

We had two pulse radars on site, and they almost fixed and ran themselves in
comparison to the Doppler sets.

At this point the whole Hawk fire control system can sit on the tailgate of
a HumVee, has over twice the range, runs almost forever without
maintenance, and can track zillions of targets concurrently. It is
Doppler-pulse.

wrote in message
...

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I've definately seen waveguide with holes burned in it by RF.

Waveguide size is set by the operating frequency. For X-band, the smallest
dimension is less than a half of an inch.

If you put the right stuff in the waveguide, it still passes a signal well
and you raise the arc-over point dramatically.

Phased-array radars have very many small antennas, transmitters and
receivers. Each one handles only modest amounts of power.

wrote in message
...

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

I believe there was a radar in that class that operated next to I-75 in
Sault St Marie, Michigan. Every time the antenna rotated past the freeway,
you'd hear the PRF though your car radio as a "zzzzzip".

Spob wrote:

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Sure. Remington and Winchester both make products that will do precisely
this thing.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In sci.physics 77ogrA wrote:

Increased "pulse repetition rate" is also pulse repetition
"frequency".At a high enough repetition rate(frequency) a device heats
up to the point where it stops becoming a wave guide and becomes a hot
widget.
I have made BaTiO3 waveguides, among others.What did *you* mean by
"waveguide"?
Leo "thanks" Sgouros

A rectangular metal tube.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
...

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I've definately seen waveguide with holes burned in it by RF.

Waveguide size is set by the operating frequency. For X-band, the smallest
dimension is less than a half of an inch.

If you put the right stuff in the waveguide, it still passes a signal well
and you raise the arc-over point dramatically.

The "right stuff" is usually dry air, sometimes dry nitrogen.

Phased-array radars have very many small antennas, transmitters and
receivers. Each one handles only modest amounts of power.

No ****?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
...

I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I've definately seen waveguide with holes burned in it by RF.

Particularly in Miami. It got to be old - the PAR would start failing, a
piece of waveguide might get holed, and then the water-soaked air dryer
would be towled out and reloaded with dessicant.

Waveguide size is set by the operating frequency. For X-band, the
smallest
dimension is less than a half of an inch.

If you put the right stuff in the waveguide, it still passes a signal
well
and you raise the arc-over point dramatically.

The "right stuff" is usually dry air, sometimes dry nitrogen.

I never worked around any radars that used anything more sophisiticated than
dry air. Dry air turned out to be dicy in Miami, because of the humid air.
I've heard about waveguide that was based on ceramics, I wonder if the
ceramic was the dielectric. I think that many ceramics have far higher
breakdown voltages than dry air.

Phased-array radars have very many small antennas, transmitters and
receivers. Each one handles only modest amounts of power.

No ****?

;-)

The point being, this is how really impressive power levels can be achieved
with relatively low tech waveguide, etc.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:15:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

Dunno, but high enough to be useful in a combat jet.


It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

No, that's real power. The planes are tiled with a bunch of 4" square
transmitter/antenna things, pulsing something like 100 megawatts each.
Google words like hpm weapon, array radar, e-bomb, BAE, F-22.


I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I'd imagine lots of people would like to know that stuff.

John

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:15:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

Dunno, but high enough to be useful in a combat jet.


It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

No, that's real power. The planes are tiled with a bunch of 4" square
transmitter/antenna things, pulsing something like 100 megawatts each.
Google words like hpm weapon, array radar, e-bomb, BAE, F-22.


I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I'd imagine lots of people would like to know that stuff.

John

OK, you're not talking about a radar, you're talking about an EMP
weapon.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Smith & Wesson makes something that will do a pretty good job.


--
Paul Hovnanian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no place like 127.0.0.1.

On Aug 20, 11:31 am, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
Smith & Wesson makes something that will do a pretty good job.

--
Paul Hovnanian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no place like 127.0.0.1.

How about a high-powered laser that could be used to flatten tires or
melt holes in metal from a 15' distance?

H. R. Hofmann

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:12:50 GMT, Matt Ion
trained 100 monkeys to jump on the keyboard and write:

Or at least
some kind of jammer for use in movie theaters and what not...

Actually, this device is actually made and in use, though not nearly
as widespread as one would hope.

To paraphrase Joss Whedon via Reverend Book, "They'll be going to that
special hell reserved for people who talk at the theatre".
--
jtougas

"listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go" - e.e. cummings

In message , Dan
writes
But you would also fry ALL the electronics around that car. Big
lawsuit potential. Better to just let them go deaf.
That's exactly what you should do. I have invested heavily in Amplivox
hearing aid stocks, it's a long term thing but I feel I'm on a winner.
--
Clint Sharp

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:15:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

Dunno, but high enough to be useful in a combat jet.


It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

No, that's real power. The planes are tiled with a bunch of 4" square
transmitter/antenna things, pulsing something like 100 megawatts each.
Google words like hpm weapon, array radar, e-bomb, BAE, F-22.


I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I'd imagine lots of people would like to know that stuff.

John

OK, you're not talking about a radar, you're talking about an EMP
weapon.

It's apparently both. Plus it seems to be able to blast all available
data to a satellite so headquarters has a full 3D view of the entire
theatre, everything all the planes and drones can see.

John

Jumpster Jiver wrote:

Spob wrote:

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

:-)

In the 80's there were lots of people in my neighborhood with illegal
linear amplifiers on their CB radios. When they would key up these
unregulated, unshielded transmitter would put out harmonics on all the
radio and TV stations within a mile or so.
This loud annoying buzz would probably damage the speakers and amps of
such a system.
This would definitely be illegal in the USA and probably other countries
but it would do the trick.
Friend had one of these in the neighborhood. The jerk even used an old
TV antenna so it wouldn't be 'obvious' it was him, which just tended to
better radiate the offending frequencies. So, friend walked up to jerks
house, and put a staple through the twin-lead. Jerk keys up next, and
magic smoke is released in plentitude!

Charlie

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:15:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

Dunno, but high enough to be useful in a combat jet.


It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

No, that's real power. The planes are tiled with a bunch of 4" square
transmitter/antenna things, pulsing something like 100 megawatts each.
Google words like hpm weapon, array radar, e-bomb, BAE, F-22.


I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I'd imagine lots of people would like to know that stuff.

John

OK, you're not talking about a radar, you're talking about an EMP
weapon.

It's apparently both. Plus it seems to be able to blast all available
data to a satellite so headquarters has a full 3D view of the entire
theatre, everything all the planes and drones can see.

I find a combined radar/weapon in something the size of a fighter
a little hard to believe.

Little problems like how do you store energy on the order of hundreds
of megawatts and how do you transfer it to the RF generators in
nanoseconds. Wires have inductance.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:25:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:15:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:05:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

The array radars on the F-22 and JSF are reported to hit gigawatts
peak, and may one day get into the terawatt range. That would be
enough to fry the electronics on any current-generation missile or
plane, and maybe leave tanks and ships dead and immobile. And make
stealth planes un-stealthy at 100 mile ranges.

BAE is developing some of the laser-fired switches that make the peak
power.

John

A gigawatt at what pulse repetition rate; 1 pulse per hour?

Dunno, but high enough to be useful in a combat jet.


It may be near a gigawatt ERP, but I doubt that's watts RF into the
antenna.

No, that's real power. The planes are tiled with a bunch of 4" square
transmitter/antenna things, pulsing something like 100 megawatts each.
Google words like hpm weapon, array radar, e-bomb, BAE, F-22.


I'd also like to know what you'd use for waveguide at those power
levels. It's hard enough to keep moderate megawatts contained and
the waveguide in one piece.

I'd imagine lots of people would like to know that stuff.

John

OK, you're not talking about a radar, you're talking about an EMP
weapon.

It's apparently both. Plus it seems to be able to blast all available
data to a satellite so headquarters has a full 3D view of the entire
theatre, everything all the planes and drones can see.

I find a combined radar/weapon in something the size of a fighter
a little hard to believe.

So google it and believe what you will.

Little problems like how do you store energy on the order of hundreds
of megawatts and how do you transfer it to the RF generators in
nanoseconds. Wires have inductance.

Each of the tiles apparently has local capacitive energy storage and a
a laser-triggered switch that dumps the cap energy into the antenna,
probably as a UWB ringing impulse. I've seen a blurred pic of the BAE
switch, and it looks like a small strip of amorphous material
(possibly doped diamond?) on a ceramic substrate. High peak power
laser-triggered semiconductor switches have been around for a decade
at least. 10KV x 10KA = 100 MW, not unreasonable if you've got G$ to
spend.


http://advancednano.blogspot.com/200...s-warfare.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Li...energy_weapons

http://www.dsta.gov.sg/DSTA_horizons/2005/03_1.htm


Cool stuff.

John

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:25:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:


OK, you're not talking about a radar, you're talking about an EMP
weapon.

It's apparently both. Plus it seems to be able to blast all available
data to a satellite so headquarters has a full 3D view of the entire
theatre, everything all the planes and drones can see.

I find a combined radar/weapon in something the size of a fighter
a little hard to believe.

So google it and believe what you will.

Little problems like how do you store energy on the order of hundreds
of megawatts and how do you transfer it to the RF generators in
nanoseconds. Wires have inductance.

Each of the tiles apparently has local capacitive energy storage and a
a laser-triggered switch that dumps the cap energy into the antenna,
probably as a UWB ringing impulse. I've seen a blurred pic of the BAE
switch, and it looks like a small strip of amorphous material
(possibly doped diamond?) on a ceramic substrate. High peak power
laser-triggered semiconductor switches have been around for a decade
at least. 10KV x 10KA = 100 MW, not unreasonable if you've got G$ to
spend.

The capacitor HAS to be local to get around wire inductance.

OK, now you have some switched power, what generates the RF?

Where do you put the receive antenna(s) if this thing is also a
radar?

Matter of fact, where do you put any of this stuff? There isn't
that much forward looking surface on a fighter.

http://advancednano.blogspot.com/200...s-warfare.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Li...energy_weapons

http://www.dsta.gov.sg/DSTA_horizons/2005/03_1.htm


Cool stuff.

I'm not holding my breath.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:05:48 -0700, Spob wrote:

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.


Yup.

http://www.glock.com/ ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

wrote in message
...
In sci.physics John Larkin
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:25:03 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin
wrote:


OK, you're not talking about a radar, you're talking about an EMP
weapon.

It's apparently both. Plus it seems to be able to blast all available
data to a satellite so headquarters has a full 3D view of the entire
theatre, everything all the planes and drones can see.

I find a combined radar/weapon in something the size of a fighter
a little hard to believe.

So google it and believe what you will.

The military reference says that they power and store the energy beam
equipment with resources that are used for VTOL hardware in other models.

Little problems like how do you store energy on the order of hundreds
of megawatts and how do you transfer it to the RF generators in
nanoseconds. Wires have inductance.

Wires have less inductance if they are really short.

Each of the tiles apparently has local capacitive energy storage and a
a laser-triggered switch that dumps the cap energy into the antenna,
probably as a UWB ringing impulse. I've seen a blurred pic of the BAE
switch, and it looks like a small strip of amorphous material
(possibly doped diamond?) on a ceramic substrate. High peak power
laser-triggered semiconductor switches have been around for a decade
at least. 10KV x 10KA = 100 MW, not unreasonable if you've got G$ to
spend.

The capacitor HAS to be local to get around wire inductance.

OK, now you have some switched power, what generates the RF?

Don't know

Where do you put the receive antenna(s) if this thing is also a
radar?

Pulse radars use the same antenna to send and receive.

Matter of fact, where do you put any of this stuff? There isn't
that much forward looking surface on a fighter.

Put it under a streamlined radome.

Arny Krueger wrote:

10.4 * 10**6 * 6 * 10**-6 = 62.4 watts average power.


You got to be some kind of genius to do an average power calculation
like that, you know that? I could understand if you were really really
old like say 67 or mo-)

wrote:

TRR - Target range radar; tracked the target in range in ECM, frequency
agile to defeat ECM, elevation and azimuth provided by the ECM source


How exactly did that mode work, tracking target range but using EW
interference for az/el? How could you not know your az/el if you're
getting detections from your pulse?

Arny Krueger posted to sci.electronics.design:


"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do
know that 1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory
at the receiving end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end
to burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse
peak powers. Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a
microsecond. However, its peak voltage that usually frys
semiconductors.

It is energy or power that fries the semiconductors more than
voltage per se.


If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses,
but continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical
generating plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nonsense, i have worked on projects with feeds in the 500 kVA to
5000 kVA range, they all were fed from the local utility at medium
voltage or 480/277 3-phase. They build generating plants at the
1000 MVA range (about 1000 times larger). This is excepting
co-generation where the idea is to make use of otherwise waste
gasses.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:25:02 GMT, wrote:


OK, now you have some switched power, what generates the RF?

Switched power *is* RF!

John

Arny Krueger posted to sci.electronics.design:


wrote in message
...
In sci.physics Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:IsPxi.68411$_d2.64084@pd7urf3no...

I do not know if the tracking
radar and cop's radar gun were on the same band, however I do
know that
1MW of microwaves was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the
receiving
end to burn out its front end.

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving
end to burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse
peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However,
its peak voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short
pulses, but continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical
electrical generating plant next to them to run them in the
field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

10.4 * 10**6 * 6 * 10**-6 = 62.4 watts average power.

Hawk 2nd generation tracking HPIR CW RADAR AN/MPQ 39 power seems
to have
not yet been revealed publicly. It has been publicly stated that
the AN/MPQ 39 power output level exceeded that of the earlier
AN/MPQ 33, which was 125
watts. This is a vast understatement!

AN/SPG-51 and AN/SPG-53 tracking / target illumination radars
were/are rated at 22.5 kW continuous and 35 kW continuous. They
were real good at knocking birds out of the sky.